Muscle mass vs. strength gains - why must you chose?

kapoorpk

Its often asked whether one's goal is muscle mass or strength gain and I wonder why you can't pursue both? I recognize the basic differences between the two approaches, i.e. heavier weights lower reps for strength and weights lighter enough to do 10-12 reps for mass gain.

If I do the following, aren't I working on both?

Lift weights so you could do only 5-7 reps until you can do 10-12 reps, stay there for 2-4 weeks, increase weight again enough so you could only do 5-7 reps again....repeat.

Won't the aforementioned approach allow for strength focus be alternated with muscle mass gain and deliver gains on both fronts?

Thoughts?

shmerek

I read this article last night which I found interesting and is sort of relevant, at least in terms of "strength"
http://www.exercisebiology.com/index.php/site/articles/are_low_reps_ideal_for_strength/

mind you it would be a lot more interesting if they linked to their resources.

dbmata

They don't need source, their logo has DNA in it.

ETA - also considering the quality of the writing, editing, and spelling, how could you doubt the veracity of their claims?

dbmata

Lift weights so you could do only 5-7 reps until you can do 10-12 reps, stay there for 2-4 weeks, increase weight again enough so you could only do 5-7 reps again....repeat.

Won't the aforementioned approach allow for strength focus be alternated with muscle mass gain and deliver gains on both fronts?

Thoughts?

Honestly, don't know. I can tell you what my strength coach has me doing with the express goal of increasing explosive strength and endurance.

Every time I touch a bar, I keep doing that exercise for 30 reps. Bench press, pull up (he's helping me with that, a lot.), pushups, deadlifts, squats, etc, etc, anything I touch.

We're going lower weights than I know I can do in stronglifts, but this is a level of destruction I've never experienced before.

ETA - is it making me stronger? Yes. Is my max deadlift 10% heavier? dunno.

shmerek

In defence many of the articles do cite reference material, just not this one. lol

dbmata

In defence many of the articles do cite reference material, just not this one. lol

I'm just taking a piss.

LifterDave

Its often asked whether one's goal is muscle mass or strength gain and I wonder why you can't pursue both? I recognize the basic differences between the two approaches, i.e. heavier weights lower reps for strength and weights lighter enough to do 10-12 reps for mass gain.

If I do the following, aren't I working on both?

Lift weights so you could do only 5-7 reps until you can do 10-12 reps, stay there for 2-4 weeks, increase weight again enough so you could only do 5-7 reps again....repeat.

Won't the aforementioned approach allow for strength focus be alternated with muscle mass gain and deliver gains on both fronts?

Thoughts?

That is pretty much the routine I am doing right now with a few differences. A routine along these lines would be referred to as a power building routine. I do 4-5 ramping warm up sets of 5 reps and then my top sets begin at 3x5 with an increase of reps on every session until I have reached 3x10 sets and then increase the weight and begin again. This gives a progressive overload and basically a deload period when the sets are reduced back to 3x5. On deadlifts I begin a little different by starting my tops sets at 3x3 working each session to 3x6, then increase the weight and back to 3x3.

What I am hoping to achieve with increases of strength is to actually still own those weights if I take any kind of significant time off from lifiing. I have done 5x5 routines such as Stronglifts and Madcow. Starting Strength, Wendler's 531, Texas Method and Sheiko. I had excellent gains after 9 months of Sheiko, but my body burned out after hitting it so heavy for quite a while. What I found is that once I quit Sheiko, my gains also left after a bit of time off. This situation may not happen for a younger man, but I am just shy of 51. My recovery is not what it used to be.

shmerek

In defence many of the articles do cite reference material, just not this one. lol

I'm just taking a piss.

I know. On second reading of the link it does seem more shoddy.

JonnyQwest

Lift weights so you could do only 5-7 reps until you can do 10-12 reps, stay there for 2-4 weeks, increase weight again enough so you could only do 5-7 reps again....repeat.

Won't the aforementioned approach allow for strength focus be alternated with muscle mass gain and deliver gains on both fronts?

Thoughts?

Honestly, don't know. I can tell you what my strength coach has me doing with the express goal of increasing explosive strength and endurance.

Every time I touch a bar, I keep doing that exercise for 30 reps. Bench press, pull up (he's helping me with that, a lot.), pushups, deadlifts, squats, etc, etc, anything I touch.

We're going lower weights than I know I can do in stronglifts, but this is a level of destruction I've never experienced before.

ETA - is it making me stronger? Yes. Is my max deadlift 10% heavier? dunno.

Are you putting on any mass though??

dbmata

Lift weights so you could do only 5-7 reps until you can do 10-12 reps, stay there for 2-4 weeks, increase weight again enough so you could only do 5-7 reps again....repeat.

Won't the aforementioned approach allow for strength focus be alternated with muscle mass gain and deliver gains on both fronts?

Thoughts?

Honestly, don't know. I can tell you what my strength coach has me doing with the express goal of increasing explosive strength and endurance.

Every time I touch a bar, I keep doing that exercise for 30 reps. Bench press, pull up (he's helping me with that, a lot.), pushups, deadlifts, squats, etc, etc, anything I touch.

We're going lower weights than I know I can do in stronglifts, but this is a level of destruction I've never experienced before.

ETA - is it making me stronger? Yes. Is my max deadlift 10% heavier? dunno.

Are you putting on any mass though??

Yup. Not a ton though cause I'm basically eating at maintenance, but forearm increase by a half inch, and upper arm by the same amount. Nothing to write home about. I also can't attribute it all to his help, I'd say bouldering and stronglifts has helped a bit too.

jason_adams

We live in a time where things are almost always spoken about in terms of "OPTIMAL", but never explicitly.
Yes - lifting for mass will make you stronger, but not as quickly as lifting for pure strength.
Yes - lifting for pure strength will make your muscles bigger, but not as quickly as lifting for mass.

Body builders and power builders lift differently and look different. Are folks in both groups stronger with more muscle mass than they had when they started??? Hell yes.

shmerek

Another analysis of a few studies
http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2014/04/22/heavy-versus-moderate-loads/

tomcornhole

I think the 5/3/1 routine with the Boring But Big (BBB= 5x10x50% training max) accessories accomplish the goal of strength gains with mass gains. You better eat a lot or it will kill you.

Tom

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Yes you can, and you can switch back and forth, but you will not do "as best as you can" for both at the same time. I've never really gone for mass, I usually do sets in the 8-10 range, switching in 4-6 sets some days too.

But, does it really matter? Any increase in muscle mass can be converted the other direction with further training. If I go for a max I switch into gear adding 4-6, 2-3, and 1 even negative sets. You could vary with more volume for mass.

Sam_I_Am77

I think this type of topic gets taken out of context and looks at one extreme of Muscle Mass (Bodybuilders) and compared to the other extreme Strength (Powerlifters).

First, getting stronger and adding muscle mass will require you to eat more. If you're doing that and training hard, then you will gain muscle mass. For instance, you could definitely take something like 5/3/1 FSL and getting stronger while gaining some muscle mass. You might not gain Bodybuilder type mass but you will get stronger and bigger over time. Unfortunately the two extremes require different training approach but there's nothing wrong with what's in the middle in terms of size and strength. Look at somebody like Klokov. He's a big dude that is also pretty lean but is also strong as hell.