When is a plateau an actual plateau?

AshwinA7

I'm 5' 7" @ around 167 currently.

I've only been bulking for around a month now eating at a conservative surplus of 2300 calories. I'm following the StrongLifts program and initially saw my weight jump up by around 7 - 10 lbs (from 160) but I asked around and people mentioned it was primarily water weight. This bore out because I didn't really see my weight increase beyond 170, which wouldn't have made sense anyway.

The past few workouts that I've seen, I haven't been able to consistenly add 5 lbs. Particularly with squats and bench press, I've been stuck at the same weight for the past 1.5 weeks.

I understand that any time you stay at a weight, that would be considered a plateau, but as muscle growth or adaption is not linear, it's not reasonable to expect that you can consistently add weight with no interruptions. After a while, however, something would have to change in order to grow if doing the same thing isn't working.

2 questions:

1) How long do you have to stall out at a particular weight before you would define it as a plateau?

2) Generally speaking (assuming that I'm using proper form), is eating more the solution to getting over plateaus?

MagnumBurrito

What's your current squat and bench at? Have you been doing strong lifts only a month too?

AshwinA7

I've been doing StrongLifts for about 3 months now. Before, I was trying to lift on a caloric deficit but found during my initial long cut ( ~ 9 months) I hadn't lifted at all and lost a lot of muscle. As a result, I plateaued out very quickly even though I started with the bar (45 lbs) on all the lifts except deadlift.

Deadlift: 220
Bench Press: 120
Overhead Press: 85
Pendlay (Barbell) Row: 120
Squat: 160

stealthq

According to Starting Strength, which is a similar program, you've stalled when you've deloaded three times and can't get past the weight you first failed at. In order to deload, you must have attempted the weight 3 successive sessions and failed all three.

Doesn't Starting Strength have something similar?

AshwinA7

@stealthq-

Yes, StrongLIfts does the same. Is eating more the solution or just deloading and then training as normal?

CrusaderSam

I hate to break it to you....but you are not very strong for your body weight so I don't think eating more will help with this one.

ConnorS879

I would not define staying at the same weight as a plateau, you'll be making progress undoubtably, depending on how much you monitor your workout, an extra rep here and an extra set there is progress, I don't think you've been lifting long enough to hit a plateau, especially if you are in a 2,300 calories surplus

MagnumBurrito

I've been doing StrongLifts for about 3 months now. Before, I was trying to lift on a caloric deficit but found during my initial long cut ( ~ 9 months) I hadn't lifted at all and lost a lot of muscle. As a result, I plateaued out very quickly even though I started with the bar (45 lbs) on all the lifts except deadlift.

Deadlift: 220
Bench Press: 120
Overhead Press: 85
Pendlay (Barbell) Row: 120
Squat: 160

I'd say stay with the small surplus until your lifts go up a little more. Don't worry about the weekly plateau. Just keep upping the weights when you can. If a lift seems real difficult, do a 10% deload and then continue with the 5 lb increase. You're right in thinking strength gain is not linear. Far from it.

I got stuck at 175 lb squats for weeks with a couple deloads. I think my hammys were really weak before I started squatting.

The bench, I would go over form again. Maybe get a copy of Starting Strength.

waldo56

I highly doubt 2300 cal is a surplus for someone your size.

The strength gains are stalling because you are in a calorie deficit.

JoRocka

at 5'8 and 162 for my first bulk- I worked my way upwards of 3000 plus- and toward the end it wasn't enough. so 2300 definitely doens't sound like enough.

That being said- I don't think you're stalling on squat from calorie deficit- body weight is respectable- but you should be able to hit 200 without having to bulk. I had to tweak and add a belt and figure out how to properly brace- it had more to do with technique and bracing properly rather than not being strong enough. now I don't belt up till after 185.

Try going adjusting technique- lower the weight and tinker with foot placement- bar placement- breathing- and bracing. Get a belt if you need it.

NRBreit

I agree with the others here. 2,300 cals is probably close to maintenance or a slight defiicit at your weight.

AshwinA7

Thanks everyone for the input!

@crusadersam - I know I'm not very strong. As I mentioned in my post, I lost a lot of muscle during my very long cut. When I first started StrongLifts I had to start with the bar on all the lifts except deadlift because I was simply too weak.

After experimentation, I found that 2000 was my TDEE so many of you are right that 2300 is a very conservative surplus.

For those who think that I should up my calories, how much more should I be eating?

MSLUC

Protein, Potein, Protein. MUSCLE FOOD.

CrusaderSam

Look we all have to start somewhere I know when I started I hadn't lost any muscle from anything I was just weak. When I started I was 300lb and I had a hard time benching an empty bar and when I was done at 170 I could put up 225 for 8.

Don’t fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking *kitten*, and take out the crap that doesn’t matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. I think thats a quote from Jim Wendler

AshwinA7

Look we all have to start somewhere I know when I started I hadn't lost any muscle from anything I was just weak. When I started I was 300lb and I had a hard time benching an empty bar and when I was done at 170 I could put up 225 for 8.

That quote didn't really say anything specific but are you trying to say that I shouldn't be bulking at this point but instead stick to eating at TDEE and lifting since I haven't reached my potential for my weight?

likitisplit

Thanks everyone for the input!

@crusadersam - I know I'm not very strong. As I mentioned in my post, I lost a lot of muscle during my very long cut. When I first started StrongLifts I had to start with the bar on all the lifts except deadlift because I was simply too weak.

After experimentation, I found that 2000 was my TDEE so many of you are right that 2300 is a very conservative surplus.

For those who think that I should up my calories, how much more should I be eating?

2000 is your TDEE? That doesn't sound right at all if you are lifting 3-4 days a week.

ETA - I plugged your stats into the SCOOBY calculator and came up with 2780 as TDEE and 3030 as a clean bulk.

AshwinA7

That number seems ridiculously high to be honest. In my experience, I lost fat at a pretty average rate: 1 lb/week if I'm eating at a 20% deficit. My guess is my muscle building capability is similarly average. Eating 3000 calories seems like most of it would turn to fat pretty quickly. I don't think my body has the ability to utilize all those calories.

JoRocka

Thanks everyone for the input!

@crusadersam - I know I'm not very strong. As I mentioned in my post, I lost a lot of muscle during my very long cut. When I first started StrongLifts I had to start with the bar on all the lifts except deadlift because I was simply too weak.

After experimentation, I found that 2000 was my TDEE so many of you are right that 2300 is a very conservative surplus.

For those who think that I should up my calories, how much more should I be eating?

2000 is your TDEE? That doesn't sound right at all if you are lifting 3-4 days a week.

ETA - I plugged your stats into the SCOOBY calculator and came up with 2780 as TDEE and 3030 as a clean bulk.

I do a backwards *kitten* TDEE- i like using TDEE and then tinkering with my own exercise calories- I do it both ways to see and I usually come up with the same same numbers.
but Jo- WTF does that mean?
If I put in completely sedentary into TDEE calculators and come up with about 1900/2000 for maintance. add in a couple hundred calories for workouts- and it puts me right around 2300-2500 for my workout days.

if I put in moderately active-with 3-4 workouts straight up TDEE I wind up with around 23/500 calories for maintance- wack off a few hundred for my 15-20% and I'm still eating at or around 2000- if not lower for a daily number.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was eating between 2-3000. floating between cutting/maintance and bulking. it seems a little lower- but it's not eye brow raising off the charts weird.

Galatea_Stone

I highly doubt 2300 cal is a surplus for someone your size.

The strength gains are stalling because you are in a calorie deficit.

^This.

I'm a 5'7" woman, gained 14 pounds from 120 to 134, and ate 2600 or more calories a day to get the scale to budge up.

_Terrapin_

I highly doubt 2300 cal is a surplus for someone your size.

The strength gains are stalling because you are in a calorie deficit.

And Waldo get the "O" for B-I-N-G-O....deficit would be accurate at 2300; next caller.

likitisplit

I'm 5'9" 172 lbs and 42 years old. 2600 TDEE.

likitisplit

Thanks everyone for the input!

@crusadersam - I know I'm not very strong. As I mentioned in my post, I lost a lot of muscle during my very long cut. When I first started StrongLifts I had to start with the bar on all the lifts except deadlift because I was simply too weak.

After experimentation, I found that 2000 was my TDEE so many of you are right that 2300 is a very conservative surplus.

For those who think that I should up my calories, how much more should I be eating?

2000 is your TDEE? That doesn't sound right at all if you are lifting 3-4 days a week.

ETA - I plugged your stats into the SCOOBY calculator and came up with 2780 as TDEE and 3030 as a clean bulk.

I do a backwards *kitten* TDEE- i like using TDEE and then tinkering with my own exercise calories- I do it both ways to see and I usually come up with the same same numbers.
but Jo- WTF does that mean?
If I put in completely sedentary into TDEE calculators and come up with about 1900/2000 for maintance. add in a couple hundred calories for workouts- and it puts me right around 2300-2500 for my workout days.

if I put in moderately active-with 3-4 workouts straight up TDEE I wind up with around 23/500 calories for maintance- wack off a few hundred for my 15-20% and I'm still eating at or around 2000- if not lower for a daily number.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was eating between 2-3000. floating between cutting/maintance and bulking. it seems a little lower- but it's not eye brow raising off the charts weird.

She?

Me or the OP? (The OP is a 24 year old male)