Not feeling good :(

Heatherthecyclist

So since I've been doing MFP I have lost some weight, 9.9lbs down and about 4-5 to go I think though will reassess when I get there.

I've been quite tired but feeling ok (I'm a competitive cyclist and train hard. Not just training to burn calories, but training hard for performance)

I'm on a 1200 base, and then give myself 400 cals per hour for training, and I eat them all back,

Today in particular I feel terrible- headache, sick, overwhelming urge to go back to bed, just feel awful and I have a race tonight Just want to go home from work.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of feeling- wondering if it's just perhaps from running a calorie deficit?

abadvat

A competitive cyclist, looking to lose 15 lbs and on a 1200 meal plan.... am i wrong in assuming you are keeping your carbs very low?!

Heatherthecyclist

1200 base but I'm eating a lot more than that as I train a lot. I'm not really keeping my carbs low- I need them to train, I don't eat pizza, pasta, bread etc but I'm eating porridge and having a lot of carbs in fruit and veg.

cppeace

It sounds like to little calories and possibly not enough carbs. Maybe try upping to 1400 and keep the same for the cycling.

Cerakoala

I am guessing the same as the above posters. Maybe your weight loss is to fast? How much do you have set to lose a week? If you are only looking to lose 1-2 more pounds you should be aiming for a .5 reduction every week not a 2lb It will allow you to eat more calories and lose still. Also would you be willing to open your diary so we can see your food intake? That will help us give you better advice

Heatherthecyclist

I've opened my diary- didn't realise it was shut

I have it set to 1lb a week. I seem to be losing about that. It gives me 1200 base whether I set it to 0.5lb week or 2lb week though so doesn't seem to make a difference!

My carb percentage is already really high coz of the training, if I up it any more I won't get any protein in. I just don't know what to do.

KinoM

Hi Heather, another piece of vital information; what height and weight are you?

Heatherthecyclist

I'm 5 foot 4.5. (164cm i think?) and weigh 9 stone 2.8

I do obviously carry a fair bit of muscle in my legs. Big thighs!

KinoM

Your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) looks to be just over 1200 per day based on your height & weight, which means that that is the absolute bare minimum you should eat per day to support your basic body functions. It's what your body would still burn if you didn't move a muscle for 24 hours (heart, brain, nervous system, etc).

From what you're describing as your training levels on the bike you're also probably massively underestimating your calorie burns. At your weight a burn of 400 calories in an hour works out to an approximate average speed 12-14 mph. I've got a feeling if you're training for competitive cycling you could easily be averaging 16-20 mph which would be more like 700 calories burned per hour.

The bottom line is that you're cutting into the calories that your body needs to maintain basic functions. If you're having trouble with the amounts of food involved in eating more try increasing your nutritionally dense foods with healthy fats, such as nuts, peanut butter, avocado, full fat dairy, etc. Your macro split looks fine, you just need more food.

Heatherthecyclist

Do you think so?

As I train all the time and have for a long time, my body has become quite efficient I think. I just don't think I burn as many calories training as I 'should' on paper. My training pace I guess is around 19mph, my racing pace 26-27mph.I don't think I burn 700 cals an hour. It's all guesswork though isn't it- I wish there were some exact numbers!

If I can eat more that would be great, but I feel much better without the extra 10lbs I was carrying before and I don't want to put it back on !!! I still want some more off.

misskarne

While it's possible this could be a dietary issue, can I add another quite simple suggestion?

Do you think it's possible you're coming down with a cold?

Because what you described feeling "today" is very much how I feel every time I get a cold!

StraubreyR

:You could try upping your calories slowly. The idea is to eat as much as you possibly can and still lose. The only way to figure that out for sure is by trial and error. I cycle, although not competitively, and if I'm really hungry after a ride, I eat more. I still lose at a steady rate. As far as what you burn per hour, an HRM would probably get you a closer estimate, but they are all estimates of some type.

The other thing you can do is look into the TDEE method, which is what I use. It takes exercise into account, and gives you the same amount of calories to eat each day, exercise or not. So basically spreading that burn out over the week. I find that works much better for me than having 1500 extra calories one day and then back down the next.

KinoM

Even taking into account the inaccuracies of such a simple estimate, and the undoubted increases in your efficiency with years of training, 400 seems extremely low, given that at 19 mph the baseline estimated burn is 900 per hour. Have you got any heart rate or power/Wattage metrics for the cycling?

Here's an interesting article on cycling calorie burns and calculations/estimates: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/how-accurate-is-that-calorie-reading

Heatherthecyclist

Hmmm, maybe I should try up it a bit.

So do you think I should start with maybe upping the base to 1400, or start with maybe upping the cycling calories to 500 hour?

KinoM

I'd suggest starting by upping your base to 1300 (still a 15% deficit to an inactive TDEE) and your cycling calories to 500 per hour. Give it a few weeks and see what the overall trend is. I'd also take care to try and get close to all your macros targets, as you need all three to fuel & repair in training. Your primary goal should be your training and keeping fit and able for it, with slow steady weight loss coming in second place. Otherwise it all becomes quickly unsustainable.

MelodyandBarbells

Them's some big burn numbers for a 129 lb girl

MelodyandBarbells

I've opened my diary- didn't realise it was shut

I have it set to 1lb a week. I seem to be losing about that. It gives me 1200 base whether I set it to 0.5lb week or 2lb week though so doesn't seem to make a difference!

My carb percentage is already really high coz of the training, if I up it any more I won't get any protein in. I just don't know what to do.

Please Check this again. MFP gives me 1370 base calories when I setup my account to weigh 129 lbs and .5 lb per week loss. That said, using the fixed daily calorie method could help you if you'd prefer to avoid tracking exercise calories. If not I would definitely increase the base calories to around 1400

Heatherthecyclist

I think I would rather log the exercise calories than use the fixed daily one as training changes a lot in and out of season, and some weeks are endurance focused where I might have a 6-10 hour ride, others the longest ride may only be 3-4. And with the racing season the volume sometimes comes down and intensity up. It changes so much I think it would be hard to do TDEE.

Perhaps I should up my base to 1400?

With regards to 'big burn numbers', this isn't leisure cycling up and down a towpath at an easy pace smelling the roses, I hit the roads or a turbo trainer pretty hard and fast.

MelodyandBarbells

I don't have specific numbers to back up my claim, but you're just too small. Your initial 400 calorie number for net calories burned is not too far off the mark IMO. For me, going full pelt in one of my classes I'm maxing out at around 550 calories (and losing at the expected rate). Your intensity may be up there but in addition your body is smaller.

I would definitely up base calories to 1400

The exercise I probably wouldn't go more than 500

MelodyandBarbells

I don't know if the info posted here is still relevant. Maybe your numbers truly come up to 700 cals per hour

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/626931-cycling-how-many-calories-burned

KinoM

1400 would put you in a good position to work from, and is still in deficit without taking any exercise into account other than normal 'sedentary' daily activities. Most likely you've got a higher lean muscle mass percentage than most and your metabolism is higher than average, so 1400 is safe.

I'd still suggest a higher per hour figure on your cycling burns too. You need to keep fueled.

Heatherthecyclist

ok cool. It's just quite scary to up it as I'm scared of putting weight back on again.

But I am really hungry so I guess I do need a bit more maybe. I just didn't know whether it had to feel this way!!

Odinisgod

I typically don't feel all that lethargic when I overdo my calorie deficit, just really hungry.

I'd agree that 400 calories per hour is an underestimation based on your weight. If you are trying to net 1200/day, that does not leave much wiggle room for error.

I'd up your calorie level and see how you feel. You can do it slowly in increments and observe effects on the scale.

mstripes

Even taking into account the inaccuracies of such a simple estimate, and the undoubted increases in your efficiency with years of training, 400 seems extremely low, given that at 19 mph the baseline estimated burn is 900 per hour. Have you got any heart rate or power/Wattage metrics for the cycling?

Here's an interesting article on cycling calorie burns and calculations/estimates: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/how-accurate-is-that-calorie-reading

Not sure where you are getting your number but they are not even close to what I get with various calculators:
129 pound rider, 18 pound bike
540 C / hr @ 18mph
550 C / hr @ 19 mph
1432 C/ hour @ 27 which is 398 watts, in a peloton she is not burning this in spite of the speed unless she is leading the entire time which is doubtful. If she is in a breakaway unless she is solo she is also not burning that in an hour unless she is leading the whole time and frankly cycling just does not work that way.

Heather. The rest of the advice to raise your base calories is spot on IMHO however I think you need to increase fat and protein but not carbs. However perhaps your coach has good advice? Do you have a HRM or a power meter? either will give you a better idea of your burn. Carbs can make you feel hungry. Fresh fruit and veggies however are a great way to get them.

Heatherthecyclist

Thanks for all the comments.

I'm never in a peleton, I'm a time triallist, so I'm never drafting anyone.

I am going to try up my protein a bit, but I find my performance really struggles if I drop carbs too much so need to keep an eye on it. All my carbs are mainly from fruit and veg, I do eat porridge/oatmeal too but no pasta, bread, rice anything like that

The good news is after feeling terrible in the morning it got better as the day went on and I even managed a 14 second PB in my time trial in the evening, 1st lady

2013sk

Sounds like your de-hydrated - How much water are you drinking???

KinoM

Not sure where you are getting your number but they are not even close to what I get with various calculators:
129 pound rider, 18 pound bike
540 C / hr @ 18mph
550 C / hr @ 19 mph
1432 C/ hour @ 27 which is 398 watts, in a peloton she is not burning this in spite of the speed unless she is leading the entire time which is doubtful. If she is in a breakaway unless she is solo she is also not burning that in an hour unless she is leading the whole time and frankly cycling just does not work that way.

You must have access to better calculators than I could find. Any chance of sharing the link(s) if they're online? Always looking for better sources of information.

mstripes

Not sure where you are getting your number but they are not even close to what I get with various calculators:
129 pound rider, 18 pound bike
540 C / hr @ 18mph
550 C / hr @ 19 mph
1432 C/ hour @ 27 which is 398 watts, in a peloton she is not burning this in spite of the speed unless she is leading the entire time which is doubtful. If she is in a breakaway unless she is solo she is also not burning that in an hour unless she is leading the whole time and frankly cycling just does not work that way.

You must have access to better calculators than I could find. Any chance of sharing the link(s) if they're online? Always looking for better sources of information.

Here is just one, not the one I used above however this one is even more conservative: http://bikecalculator.com/what.html

I do not recall which ones I used but found them with a google search. I also looked at data from several friends who use power meters, most of which are 200 pounds or more and their numbers when riding hilly rides do approach what you quoted, hilly being defined at >100' per mile.

Then there is the fact that the more one cycles the more efficient they become at cycling burning even less Calories than before.

Cycling boils down to power per kilo. Lighter riders can go faster with less power. Short duration I can put out lots of watts but then I am a large rider. By losing weight I go faster while expending less energy. Heather being a time trialist likely has a very aero form on the bike when racing and maybe even when training. The more aero the less energy required for any given speed.

So happy for you Heather that you are feeling better and PR'd in your race. Interesting that you don't race in anything other than TT. In these parts there are mostly crits. I don't road race but I do race cx, not any good but fun for me.

bwogilvie

Then there is the fact that the more one cycles the more efficient they become at cycling burning even less Calories than before.

That's not really true; the more one cycles, the better the muscles get at recruiting fibers and the better the fibers get at contracting, as mitochondria and vascularization increase. But that simply means that you can use more energy in the same amount of time, i.e. you can put out more power.

Bikecalculator.com, btw, estimates that a 129-lb. cyclist on a 20-lb. bike riding at 19 mph on flat terrain with no wind, on the hoods, with clinchers, will burn 608 calories per hour. On aerobars that drops to 519 cal./hour.

For what it's worth, the numbers are not much different for a much heavier combo, because the faster you go, the more wind resistance is the main force to overcome. I'm a 160-lb. rider, and my usual bike weighs 35 lb. (25.6 lb. bike with fenders and front rack, but add 9.5 lb. of water bottles, food, and tools for an all-day ride or a brevet.) Bikecalculator estimates that I would need 639 calories per hour to do 19 mph on flat terrain on the hoods, and 548 with aerobars (not that I have them).

On the other hand, if we were evenly matched on the flats, the lighter cyclist would drop me in a flash when we came to a serious hill. It's really striking how much faster I am on hills than I was at 210 lb....

Heather: I think you should try eating a little more per hour of training; you're almost certainly burning more like 500-550 calories/hour at your training pace, since you're not drafting, and even more during races. I don't race, but I do club rides and endurance events up to 200 km, and I find that my Garmin Edge 800's calorie estimates agree fairly well with my actual weight loss results; it, in turn, isn't too far off of bikecalculator's estimates.

Congrats on your PR!

Scarecrowsama

So since I've been doing MFP I have lost some weight, 9.9lbs down and about 4-5 to go I think though will reassess when I get there.

I've been quite tired but feeling ok (I'm a competitive cyclist and train hard. Not just training to burn calories, but training hard for performance)

I'm on a 1200 base, and then give myself 400 cals per hour for training, and I eat them all back,

Today in particular I feel terrible- headache, sick, overwhelming urge to go back to bed, just feel awful and I have a race tonight Just want to go home from work.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of feeling- wondering if it's just perhaps from running a calorie deficit?

You are probably hitting the wall, or in other words, depleting you glycogen stores, that explains all your symptoms, you need carbs, you are a cyclist, continue this way and you will kill yourself.