When to move up on accessory lifts?

_lyndseybrooke_

I recently started 5/3/1, which provides a timeline for moving up on my main lifts, but I'm wondering what the process is as for when to move up on accessory lifts. These are the ways I've been considering:

1. Move up when the weight isn't challenging. (I'm leaning away from this because it would probably take forever. Just because a certain weight is challenging doesn't mean I can't go up in weight.)
2. Move up a little each week, using fractionals when necessary. (I'm not sure if this would be asking way too much of my body.)
3. Move up in all accessory lifts during my deload week on main lifts. (This is the one I'm leaning toward, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or if I should be deloading on accessory lifts during Week 4 of my cycle as well.)

Any other ideas are welcome.

rybo

Don't make it so confusing. Just move up when you can handle your current weight/reps and still have some in the tank. I wouldn't do extra on a deload week. Deload is for all movements that week.

ironanimal

What accessory are you doing?

tigersword

Have you read the book? Wendler says it doesn't matter at all if you ever progress on the accessory lifts. The main lifts are really the focus. Personally, I up the accessory lifts by about 5 pounds every time I start a new cycle, same time I up the main lifts.

TavistockToad

1. Move up when the weight isn't challenging. (I'm leaning away from this because it would probably take forever. Just because a certain weight is challenging doesn't mean I can't go up in weight.)

i dont understand this statement. if a weight is challenging, then why would you increase it anyway? surely that just risks bad form and injury?

jimmmer

I'm not doing 5/3/1, but I up my accessories at the end of a cycle (every 4 weeks for me).

The goal is to fill gaps exposed by the main lifts - not bury yourself with them. Too much accessory work, badly chosen accessory work, progressing too quickly on accessory work - will likely actually lead you to overtrain and slip backwards on your main lifts.

Wendler even has the "I'm not doing jack *kitten*" option for when you're not feeling it. Walk in, bust out the main lifts, walk out. Sometimes that's enough...

SunofaBeach14

I'm not doing 5/3/1, but I up my accessories at the end of a cycle (every 4 weeks for me).

The goal is to fill gaps exposed by the main lifts - not bury yourself with them. Too much accessory work, badly chosen accessory work, progressing too quickly on accessory work - will likely actually lead you to overtrain and slip backwards on your main lifts.

Wendler even has the "I'm not doing jack *kitten*" option for when you're not feeling it. Walk in, bust out the main lifts, walk out. Sometimes that's enough...

Have you read the book? Wendler says it doesn't matter at all if you ever progress on the accessory lifts. The main lifts are really the focus. Personally, I up the accessory lifts by about 5 pounds every time I start a new cycle, same time I up the main lifts.

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

ew_david

Perhaps you should actually read the book.

Capt_Apollo

you can treat it similar to the main lifts. every week, add about 5 pounds to the lift. but like others said, you're not supposed to be buried by your assistance work. it's supposed to aid you by tackling some deficiencies.

a friend clued me in on a way to change things up: switch up the assistance work. on squat day, do the assistance lifts for dead lift day. on overhead press do your bench assistance work. you get the idea. this works best with big but boring. you mentioned dave's periodization bible. it's good, but a little too heavy on the assistance lifts. you might be inclined to do all of them.

5/3/1 is designed so that you give 100% of yourself in the main lifts. you only do the assistance work if you want! wendler himself has talked about going in to the gym, banging out his 5/3/1 on bench (with a PR) and then just leaving because he had other things to do. even if you do have tons of time for the gym, after maxing out on 5/3/1 you probably won't (shouldn't) have the energy for 10 assistance lifts.

if you want the link to the book, i have a copy of it online. PM me.

Sam_I_Am77

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

Sam_I_Am77

5/3/1 is designed so that you give 100% of yourself in the main lifts. you only do the assistance work if you want! wendler himself has talked about going in to the gym, banging out his 5/3/1 on bench (with a PR) and then just leaving because he had other things to do. even if you do have tons of time for the gym, after maxing out on 5/3/1 you probably won't (shouldn't) have the energy for 10 assistance lifts.

_lyndseybrooke_

you can treat it similar to the main lifts. every week, add about 5 pounds to the lift. but like others said, you're not supposed to be buried by your assistance work. it's supposed to aid you by tackling some deficiencies.

a friend clued me in on a way to change things up: switch up the assistance work. on squat day, do the assistance lifts for dead lift day. on overhead press do your bench assistance work. you get the idea. this works best with big but boring. you mentioned dave's periodization bible. it's good, but a little too heavy on the assistance lifts. you might be inclined to do all of them.

5/3/1 is designed so that you give 100% of yourself in the main lifts. you only do the assistance work if you want! wendler himself has talked about going in to the gym, banging out his 5/3/1 on bench (with a PR) and then just leaving because he had other things to do. even if you do have tons of time for the gym, after maxing out on 5/3/1 you probably won't (shouldn't) have the energy for 10 assistance lifts.

if you want the link to the book, i have a copy of it online. PM me.

I managed to get the book on my Kindle for free; I just hadn't had a chance to read the whole thing and couldn't find anything about going up on assistance lifts. I just found it, though:

"After a new cycle begins, add 5 lbs to your upper body training maxes and 10 lbs to your lower body training maxes. This includes all assistance work."

So, like you said. I have no clue what my maxes on my assistance work are, though. I could easily figure it out, but I haven't yet since I just started. As for doing too much assistance work, I'm only doing three additional exercises each day - certainly not 10. If I feel as if my assistance work is taking away from my main lifts, I'll back off. For now, I'm enjoying it and I don't think my main lifts are suffering at all. Only time will tell. Like I said, I'm just starting.

SunofaBeach14

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Sam_I_Am77

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like. There is a big difference between one's Training Max and one's Competition Max, they don't necessarily correlate. There is nothing about hitting a wall with a "beginner's" program and then moving into 5/3/1. Jim has things in-place such as the 5/3 reset, to further help auto-regulate training and to help prevent plateauing. Between the books, being a member of his website, and living 5/3/1 for over a year; I'm quite familiar with the in's and outs of 5/3/1.

SunofaBeach14

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like.

LOL, I've read the books, am a member of his web-site, and have had conversations with Jim and individual he worked with at U of Kentucky, and other folks that he is friends with that have experienced it and understand it better than I, and have been training via 5/3/1 for over a year now; I think have the concept of 5/3/1 down pretty well.

Did you learn the super secret handshake?

Sam_I_Am77

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like.

LOL, I've read the books, am a member of his web-site, and have had conversations with Jim and individual he worked with at U of Kentucky, and other folks that he is friends with that have experienced it and understand it better than I, and have been training via 5/3/1 for over a year now; I think have the concept of 5/3/1 down pretty well.

Did you learn the super secret handshake?

I made some edits to try and keep this more constructive. Unfortunately very few people on this site misrepresent 5/3/1 because they simply don't understand it. I don't care how people train, but let's not misrepresent things.

SunofaBeach14

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like.

LOL, I've read the books, am a member of his web-site, and have had conversations with Jim and individual he worked with at U of Kentucky, and other folks that he is friends with that have experienced it and understand it better than I, and have been training via 5/3/1 for over a year now; I think have the concept of 5/3/1 down pretty well.

Did you learn the super secret handshake?

Yes

No decoder ring in my Cocoa Puffs and now this! I'm feeling seriously left out today.

Sam_I_Am77

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like.

LOL, I've read the books, am a member of his web-site, and have had conversations with Jim and individual he worked with at U of Kentucky, and other folks that he is friends with that have experienced it and understand it better than I, and have been training via 5/3/1 for over a year now; I think have the concept of 5/3/1 down pretty well.

Did you learn the super secret handshake?

Yes

No decoder ring in my Cocoa Puffs and now this! I'm feeling seriously left out today.

Oh. You get the ring when you actually learn what they hell you're talking about.

SunofaBeach14

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

Lol, whut? Unfortunately most people do not read the book. They take bits and pieces available on the internet and "do" 5/3/1. If most people really read the book, they would know and these types of questions wouldn't exist. Jim is pretty damn clear about everything in his books. The program is based around a couple training principles, none of which you mention. Jim does not approach 5/3/1 as a transitionary program from beginner to intermediate, rather 5/3/1 is a system based on training principles Jim believes in to help people manage their training for life. 5/3/1 is not a plateau buster, or intermediate specific "program".

- Use a training max to help auto-regulate your training.
- Focus on the important lifts first, everything else is secondary.
- Maintain mobility & conditioning

@OP: Definitely re-read his book, especially Beyond if you haven't gotten it yet. Here's a basic recommendation for assistance work...

*3-day full body split: Just do it as written, do some Core work, maybe some chin-ups, back raises (1 or 2 of the 3 days) conditioning, stretch, go home

*4-day split:
Lower Body Main Lift 5/3/1
- Joker Sets (Beyond)
- First Set Last (Beyond) or Boring But Big
Back Raises 3 x 15
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Upper Body Main Lift 5/3/1 (Beyond)
- Joker Sets
- First Set Last or Boring But Big
1 upper back / lat exercise
1 rotator cuff or bicep exercise
Abs
Conditioning
<done>

Edit: If you get the Beyond book, read-up on the 5's Pro programming as well.

If you're disagreeing with what I said then read the book

Yes, Jim promotes slow steady progress over-time but it's not this excruciating slow process that everybody makes it sound like.

LOL, I've read the books, am a member of his web-site, and have had conversations with Jim and individual he worked with at U of Kentucky, and other folks that he is friends with that have experienced it and understand it better than I, and have been training via 5/3/1 for over a year now; I think have the concept of 5/3/1 down pretty well.

Did you learn the super secret handshake?

Yes

No decoder ring in my Cocoa Puffs and now this! I'm feeling seriously left out today.

Oh. You get the ring when you actually learn what they hell you're talking about.

lol nice try

Well, that was fun. Of course, now I'm curious whether OP made any of the suggested changes to the program for beginners, such as going to full-body three days a week, and performing two main lifts? Or is that only for those who know the super secret handshake, as opposed to being able to read?

JoRocka

stop over thinking it.

Accessory work isn't for "max lifting" or progressive loading.

I do walking lunges with the same weight- and have for the last 2 years.
70-95 pounds- I never go up- and I never go below 70. It depends largely on how much time I have- and how tired I am. If I Have less time- I often opt for a 5 pounds less- and I blow through them faster.
If I have the time- I pick the heavier weight that works for my level of food/conditioning for the day.

But I never put extra thought into "oh is my cable row going up" not if you are focused on big compounds.

Stop over thinking.

JTick

stop over thinking it.

Accessory work isn't for "max lifting" or progressive loading.

I do walking lunges with the same weight- and have for the last 2 years.
70-95 pounds- I never go up- and I never go below 70. It depends largely on how much time I have- and how tired I am. If I Have less time- I often opt for a 5 pounds less- and I blow through them faster.
If I have the time- I pick the heavier weight that works for my level of food/conditioning for the day.

But I never put extra thought into "oh is my cable row going up" not if you are focused on big compounds.

Stop over thinking.

Agreed. Some accessory lifts I make decent increases on - cable row being one. It seems like I'm always adding a bit more weight to it. Some of my other ones? Yeahhh....not so much. But my big lifts are going up, I'm continuing to do accessory lifts at a weight where I'm struggling for those final reps, and life goes on.

Capt_Apollo

you can treat it similar to the main lifts. every week, add about 5 pounds to the lift. but like others said, you're not supposed to be buried by your assistance work. it's supposed to aid you by tackling some deficiencies.

a friend clued me in on a way to change things up: switch up the assistance work. on squat day, do the assistance lifts for dead lift day. on overhead press do your bench assistance work. you get the idea. this works best with big but boring. you mentioned dave's periodization bible. it's good, but a little too heavy on the assistance lifts. you might be inclined to do all of them.

5/3/1 is designed so that you give 100% of yourself in the main lifts. you only do the assistance work if you want! wendler himself has talked about going in to the gym, banging out his 5/3/1 on bench (with a PR) and then just leaving because he had other things to do. even if you do have tons of time for the gym, after maxing out on 5/3/1 you probably won't (shouldn't) have the energy for 10 assistance lifts.

if you want the link to the book, i have a copy of it online. PM me.

I managed to get the book on my Kindle for free; I just hadn't had a chance to read the whole thing and couldn't find anything about going up on assistance lifts. I just found it, though:

"After a new cycle begins, add 5 lbs to your upper body training maxes and 10 lbs to your lower body training maxes. This includes all assistance work."

So, like you said. I have no clue what my maxes on my assistance work are, though. I could easily figure it out, but I haven't yet since I just started. As for doing too much assistance work, I'm only doing three additional exercises each day - certainly not 10. If I feel as if my assistance work is taking away from my main lifts, I'll back off. For now, I'm enjoying it and I don't think my main lifts are suffering at all. Only time will tell. Like I said, I'm just starting.

you should never feel like your assistance work is taking away from your main lifts because you do those after 5/3/1. so even if you plan on doing 5 sets of 10 of whatever exercise, and you end up doing 3 sets of 8 because you're spent, that's okay!! in fact, i always ended OHP day with dumb bell hammer curls, and if i could manage to do more than 20 reps (10 on each side, alternating) that i didn't really give it my all on my main barbell work.

and you don't have to know or even aim to try and figure out your maxes for assistance lifts. it's definitely something you figure out as you go along. just start light! i'd start with your warm up weight for that day.

JoRocka

stop over thinking it.

Accessory work isn't for "max lifting" or progressive loading.

I do walking lunges with the same weight- and have for the last 2 years.
70-95 pounds- I never go up- and I never go below 70. It depends largely on how much time I have- and how tired I am. If I Have less time- I often opt for a 5 pounds less- and I blow through them faster.
If I have the time- I pick the heavier weight that works for my level of food/conditioning for the day.

But I never put extra thought into "oh is my cable row going up" not if you are focused on big compounds.

Stop over thinking.

Agreed. Some accessory lifts I make decent increases on - cable row being one. It seems like I'm always adding a bit more weight to it. Some of my other ones? Yeahhh....not so much. But my big lifts are going up, I'm continuing to do accessory lifts at a weight where I'm struggling for those final reps, and life goes on.

LOL ME TOO!!!!

I wish I did it more often- but I don't- but I do feel beastly when I use the cable row very satisfying!

LolBroScience

I'm not doing 5/3/1, but I up my accessories at the end of a cycle (every 4 weeks for me).

The goal is to fill gaps exposed by the main lifts - not bury yourself with them. Too much accessory work, badly chosen accessory work, progressing too quickly on accessory work - will likely actually lead you to overtrain and slip backwards on your main lifts.

Wendler even has the "I'm not doing jack *kitten*" option for when you're not feeling it. Walk in, bust out the main lifts, walk out. Sometimes that's enough...

Have you read the book? Wendler says it doesn't matter at all if you ever progress on the accessory lifts. The main lifts are really the focus. Personally, I up the accessory lifts by about 5 pounds every time I start a new cycle, same time I up the main lifts.

Honesty, these are some of the hints that 5/3/1 isn't a beginner's program. The entire program is built around the concept that the lifter has hit a wall and can't seem to increase his/her lifts so Wendler has the lifter intentionally dialing it back and slowly, excruciatingly slowly at times, increasing reps and weight to increase strength at a time when that has become very difficult.

All of this.

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

Unknown

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PikaKnight

Perhaps you should actually read the book.

^This x100000000000000000000

Read the book.

Not just part of the book. The whole thing. Maybe even twice..just in case you missed stuff. But actually read the book. How can you even attempt the program if you don't have a clue what's really going on and why? Maybe a lot of the questions you keep asking you'll realize are mostly (if not completely) answered there.

_lyndseybrooke_

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

If it bothers you that I've posted 2-3 5/3/1-related questions in the past two weeks (on a forum designed for nutrition/fitness questions), feel free to ignore them. No one's here to rattle your cage.

I've got the book. I'm in the process of reading the book. I'm still new at this program, so I haven't made it all the way through yet and hadn't gotten to this part yet. So sue me.

LolBroScience

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

If it bothers you that I've posted 2-3 5/3/1-related questions in the past two weeks (on a forum designed for nutrition/fitness questions), feel free to ignore them. No one's here to rattle your cage.

I've got the book. I'm in the process of reading the book. I'm still new at this program, so I haven't made it all the way through yet and hadn't gotten to this part yet. So sue me.

It doesn't bother me that you make the posts so much. It's the fact that you make the posts and then disregard all the great advice given to you.

Galatea_Stone

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

If it bothers you that I've posted 2-3 5/3/1-related questions in the past two weeks (on a forum designed for nutrition/fitness questions), feel free to ignore them. No one's here to rattle your cage.

I've got the book. I'm in the process of reading the book. I'm still new at this program, so I haven't made it all the way through yet and hadn't gotten to this part yet. So sue me.

I think what is going on here is that people are seeing that you aren't yet experienced enough to use Wendler's program. I don't say this to be harsh. I used it when I first started lifting thinking I knew what I was doing and that I was an "intermediate" lifter. I was wrong.

A year and a half later, and I am JUST NOW getting to a point in my lifts where the 5/3/1 program can be of real benefit to me. I look back and I wish I hadn't wasted all that time being a beginner lifter and thinking 5/3/1 was right for me.

Trust the advice you're getting. You're really not ready for the program and would be better with a different program. Read Strong Curves and Starting Strength while you're at it. I have both of these as well as 5/3/1. Don't be in such a hurry to categorize yourself as an intermediate lifter. You have the rest of your life to progress and develop your program.

_lyndseybrooke_

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

If it bothers you that I've posted 2-3 5/3/1-related questions in the past two weeks (on a forum designed for nutrition/fitness questions), feel free to ignore them. No one's here to rattle your cage.

I've got the book. I'm in the process of reading the book. I'm still new at this program, so I haven't made it all the way through yet and hadn't gotten to this part yet. So sue me.

It doesn't bother me that you make the posts so much. It's the fact that you make the posts and then disregard all the great advice given to you.

Where did I disregard advice on this thread? Or any recent thread aside from the ONE you and I are both thinking of?

_lyndseybrooke_

Honestly, read the book instead of making a new topic every week about some component of 5/3/1... Or, you can check out his website too

If it bothers you that I've posted 2-3 5/3/1-related questions in the past two weeks (on a forum designed for nutrition/fitness questions), feel free to ignore them. No one's here to rattle your cage.

I've got the book. I'm in the process of reading the book. I'm still new at this program, so I haven't made it all the way through yet and hadn't gotten to this part yet. So sue me.

I think what is going on here is that people are seeing that you aren't yet experienced enough to use Wendler's program. I don't say this to be harsh. I used it when I first started lifting thinking I knew what I was doing and that I was an "intermediate" lifter. I was wrong.

A year and a half later, and I am JUST NOW getting to a point in my lifts where the 5/3/1 program can be of real benefit to me. I look back and I wish I hadn't wasted all that time being a beginner lifter and thinking 5/3/1 was right for me.

Trust the advice you're getting. You're really not ready for the program and would be better with a different program. Read Strong Curves and Starting Strength while you're at it. I have both of these as well as 5/3/1. Don't be in such a hurry to categorize yourself as an intermediate lifter. You have the rest of your life to progress and develop your program.

I hear you. However, I actually don't consider myself an intermediate lifter. I know I'm still very much a beginner. I was doing 5x5, did it for 12 weeks, and was getting bored with it. I needed more variety because I refuse to have a workout routine that I don't actually enjoy. I looked into other programs like Starting Strength, Strong Curves, and NROL4W, but none interested me the way 5/3/1 did. Maybe I should have read the book cover to cover before I even started, but I didn't. I read the information on Wendler's site and a few articles written on the program and decided to go for it. I am in the process of reading the book because I know it's important, but I don't have a whole lot of extra time for reading, so it's a process.

I think certain people here are making me out to be a lot dumber than I am regarding lifting. I'm no expert, I know that, but I'm not completely clueless. I ask a couple of questions on the forums, thinking people will either be helpful (and some have) or ignore me (which is fine), but instead I'm getting a lot of snotty remarks from people that seem to think I should have it all figured out by now and I'm a complete moron for asking a couple of questions. Would it be better for me to just wing it instead of asking? I don't think so, but I think I'll find somewhere else to ask my questions from now on. I posted this question on another forum at the same time and got nothing but useful answers, not people saying, "uh, maybe you should read the book" over and over again even after I say that I am.

Also, according to Wendler himself, 5/3/1 CAN be modified for beginners. I'm not doing anything harmful and I believe that, as long as I'm lifting, that's the most important part. I know I'll miss out on some beginner gains by moving on from 5x5 before stalling out, and I'm okay with that. I have no desire to be a bodybuilder - I just want to get a little stronger and look and feel a little better, and I don't want to think of workout out as a chore as opposed to something I look forward to. Not everyone starts with 5x5 or SS - just because MFP says that those are the only acceptable programs for beginners doesn't necessarily make it true.

But thank you for being honest without being a *kitten*. Apparently that's pretty difficult 'round these parts.