Does running destroy your knees?
Replies
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No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
lulz
Please post reasearch0 -
Just get good shoes and start slowly. Humans are designed to be moving about on their own two legs not sitting on a sofa or in a car.0
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No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So any other animal that cannot run as fast a cheetah was not meant to run?
Your post is actually contradictory. If we were built for short bursts of speed for hunting, wouldn't we have fast short bursts of speed as other predators do, like the cheetah? If you compare physiology of animals that have short bursts of speed, we are very different.
OP - I help coach a Learn to Run program. We have a number of speakers come in and address a number of topics. The doctor who comes in to talk addresses this specifically. He echos what others have said - being overweight is far worse for our joints than running is. Running does not destroy knees. But, as others have pointed out, the extra weight does put on extra strain, so you need to proceed with caution, building up strength, good form, etc.0 -
I started running when I was 300#. I have never had any significant knee issues. Even starting with crap shoes and crap form. I actually developed shin splints because of too much too soon. If you take it slow and build properly with good foot wear you'll be fine. Having good form is difficult at first when your trying not to die in the road but keep it in mind and work at it. A good strategy would be to use a run and concentrate on one aspect of the form. Such as head position...then each run focus on something else till it all fits together.0
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I was fine running when I was overweight and incredibly out of shape. I couldn't run very fast or very far, so my knees never hurt. It was when I got in decent shape and much lower weight that I started tearing up my knees because my muscles, cardiovascular system, and energy levels didn't give out first.0
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I'm sad I had to stop running on the treadmill because of knee pain. I harmed it 3 years ago slipping on ice in the parking lot of my complex and it hasn't been the same. Pain can come and go. I never enjoyed running really but I just started to actually get into it and enjoy it. I have to do the elliptical instead now which can get so boring. Blah.
Have you tried running outside? I started running on a treadmill and was about to give up because of the knee pain but talking to some runner friends of mine, they told me to try running outside before quitting. I'm glad I did. I took to running outside quickly and the pain went away.
No I haven't tried running outside. My fiancè runs 3 miles everyday outside so I'd never be able to go with him until I got to his speed. But I could try it. I just like being in air conditioning lol. I should put some inserts in my shoes and give it a go at the park.0 -
I started running when I was 215. I'm now 175. Just like any exercise, if you use proper form and equipment, you should be fine.
The minimalist/barefoot running trend has just about worn itself out. Which is good. Shoes are better now and the selection is wider, but we're not pushing it to a dangerous extreme.
The fore/mid foot strike is all the rage now. The research is mixed. The research is solid, however, on overstriking - you shouldn't reach out in front of you with your legs. Instead feel like you are landing with your feet under you.
In terms of a program, any of the couch to 5k versions are good.0 -
Here's a fairly succinct summary:
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20765578_4,00.htmlA Stanford University study found that older runners' knees were no less healthy than those of people who don't run. But while pounding the pavement is safer on the joints than contact sports like football, it's not totally harmless.
"Women are four to six times as likely to be at risk of serious knee injuries from running as men, because they tend to have an imbalance in the strength ratio between their quadriceps and hamstrings, which can increase the risk of ACL injuries," Westcott says.
That's why experts recommend doing a total-body strength workout at least twice a week in addition to your regular jogs to build up the muscles that support the knees.
"You will enhance your running experience and also reduce your chances of getting injured," Matthews points out.
Good post. People tend to mistakenly conflate bone damage with soft tissue overuse injuries when they use the phrase "damage my knees". Running carries minimal risk for the former, and, like any high-impact activity, higher risk for the latter.
Proper footwear, good form, sensible training schedules, and modifying running surface can help reduce the risk--and functional strength training is essential.0 -
This is an enlightening topic.
For all of the people here who know a lot about running, can I piggyback on this question?
I want to know if running/jogging while extremely obese (I'm over 350) will damage your breast tissue even if you're wearing a bra? Someone told me that once and it's made me paranoid . . . not that I could even get to a running speed for long enough for it to matter, probably.
I like Moving Comfort's Juno bra.0 -
I started running when I was 215. I'm now 175. Just like any exercise, if you use proper form and equipment, you should be fine.
The minimalist/barefoot running trend has just about worn itself out. Which is good. Shoes are better now and the selection is wider, but we're not pushing it to a dangerous extreme.
The fore/mid foot strike is all the rage now. The research is mixed. The research is solid, however, on overstriking - you shouldn't reach out in front of you with your legs. Instead feel like you are landing with your feet under you.
In terms of a program, any of the couch to 5k versions are good.
I agree mostly but would only add a bit of caution in that running at 250-300 lbs is a little different than running at 215.
You bring up the key issue about stride -- it is OVERSTRIDING that is important, not foot strike per se. Everyone has their own biomechanics and it can be as wrong to push everyone to an arbitrary fore/mid strike as it was to push everyone to a heel strike 40 years ago.0 -
No is the simple answer. There are some good posts above say why as well. There has also been quite a few studies showing as well as increasing bone density running also encourages cartilage growth. Those people that have knee problems that they normally blame on running normally have an underlying issue that has caused this so the running wasn't the cause.
I had a very serious knee injury 15 years ago there was talk of amputation due to the damage. Before I started running I was around 300 pounds then) I spoke to my Orthopeadic surgeon who said it was a good thing to do as it would strengthen the Knee joint and stability of the knee as the tendons, ligaments and muscles surrounding the joint would get stronger and more flexible. I've been running now around a year and had no major problems and from a personal perspective my knee is far more stable and less problematic.0 -
I started running when I was 215. I'm now 175. Just like any exercise, if you use proper form and equipment, you should be fine.
The minimalist/barefoot running trend has just about worn itself out. Which is good. Shoes are better now and the selection is wider, but we're not pushing it to a dangerous extreme.
The fore/mid foot strike is all the rage now. The research is mixed. The research is solid, however, on overstriking - you shouldn't reach out in front of you with your legs. Instead feel like you are landing with your feet under you.
In terms of a program, any of the couch to 5k versions are good.
I agree mostly but would only add a bit of caution in that running at 250-300 lbs is a little different than running at 215.
You bring up the key issue about stride -- it is OVERSTRIDING that is important, not foot strike per se. Everyone has their own biomechanics and it can be as wrong to push everyone to an arbitrary fore/mid strike as it was to push everyone to a heel strike 40 years ago.
He's 27 pounds overweight. I was 45. Fatter people than either of us have successful completed C25k without knee injury
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No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So just because one animal can run faster than another means that the slower one has not evolved to run ... wow :ohwell: :ohwell:
Yes, that's exactly what it means. There are certain traits that go along with an animal that has evolved to run... Namely, they run fast. They are built for running. Note the fastest animals all have 4 legs. They all have muscular shoulder, which dwarf most of the other musculature. Note how they are laid out: Aerodynamically.
All traits that lean towards being "evolved to run". Most of which we don't have.0 -
No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
lulz
Please post reasearch
What? Research that shows the injury speed is 25-26mph? Or that the fastest human is only a fraction as fast as other land animals who actually evolved to run?0 -
No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So any other animal that cannot run as fast a cheetah was not meant to run?
Your post is actually contradictory. If we were built for short bursts of speed for hunting, wouldn't we have fast short bursts of speed as other predators do, like the cheetah? If you compare physiology of animals that have short bursts of speed, we are very different.
OP - I help coach a Learn to Run program. We have a number of speakers come in and address a number of topics. The doctor who comes in to talk addresses this specifically. He echos what others have said - being overweight is far worse for our joints than running is. Running does not destroy knees. But, as others have pointed out, the extra weight does put on extra strain, so you need to proceed with caution, building up strength, good form, etc.
No, but animals that actually have evolved for running are magnitudes faster than we are. How many animals are you able to catch on foot?
We were designed for constant, long distance running, since we largely didn't evolved as hunters, but hunter-gatherers. It was key to be able to sustain a constant walk, in order to gather food. Hunting was largely opportunistic.0 -
I used to think that I just had "bad knees". Once I completed the Couch-to-5K program I realized I was just fat and out of shape. With the exception of a meniscus strain 6 months ago, my knees have felt better and function better after I started running and doing lower body work outs...which lead to a lower weight.
Like everyone else said. Start slow, build gradually, and don't go on back to back days until you've been running for a while.0 -
No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So any other animal that cannot run as fast a cheetah was not meant to run?
Your post is actually contradictory. If we were built for short bursts of speed for hunting, wouldn't we have fast short bursts of speed as other predators do, like the cheetah? If you compare physiology of animals that have short bursts of speed, we are very different.
OP - I help coach a Learn to Run program. We have a number of speakers come in and address a number of topics. The doctor who comes in to talk addresses this specifically. He echos what others have said - being overweight is far worse for our joints than running is. Running does not destroy knees. But, as others have pointed out, the extra weight does put on extra strain, so you need to proceed with caution, building up strength, good form, etc.
No, but animals that actually have evolved for running are magnitudes faster than we are. How many animals are you able to catch on foot?
We were designed for constant, long distance running, since we largely didn't evolved as hunters, but hunter-gatherers. It was key to be able to sustain a constant walk, in order to gather food. Hunting was largely opportunistic.
And that is what we are saying.0 -
No, but animals that actually have evolved for running are magnitudes faster than we are. How many animals are you able to catch on foot?
But they don't sustain that speed for long...We were designed for constant, long distance running, since we largely didn't evolved as hunters, but hunter-gatherers. It was key to be able to sustain a constant walk, in order to gather food. Hunting was largely opportunistic.
So when you say we didn't evolve to run, what you meant was we evolved to run for sustained periods.0 -
I have a less then perfect right knee- running hurt a great deal when I first started... I don't recommend pushing through the pain to anyone, rather listen to your body - if you knee is throbbing then don't run, rather immediately stretch your legs like crazzzzy, if I even start to feel pain I stop everything and take a 5-10 min stretch break right on the side of the road.
If your knee is in REALLY bad shape, or if you are REALLY overweight - you do not appear really over weight btw - however for those that fall into that category I recommend STARTING - by doing swimming for your aerobic exercise.0 -
I weigh about 265, and running destroys my shins and my knees. Then again, I played football throughout high school and rugby in college, so my shins and knees were pretty well destroyed before then (pre-arthritis, torn PCL, wicked bumps on my shins from shin-splints, etc). I ran around the block the other day after doing the first half of a P90X video, and my shins were killing me from the run, not the video.
Low impact is about the only way I can go these days. When I do workout DVDs I modify to make it easier on my joints. Lets be honest - 250+ lbs is a lot of weight and can be hard on your joints!0 -
I blew my knee out twice trying to run. The key is good shoes, getting your gait checked at a running store helps a lot. And dont push it right away. find a couch to 5k paln and start there. Slow and steady might not win the race but it will allow you to keep yourself in it.0
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No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So any other animal that cannot run as fast a cheetah was not meant to run?
Your post is actually contradictory. If we were built for short bursts of speed for hunting, wouldn't we have fast short bursts of speed as other predators do, like the cheetah? If you compare physiology of animals that have short bursts of speed, we are very different.
OP - I help coach a Learn to Run program. We have a number of speakers come in and address a number of topics. The doctor who comes in to talk addresses this specifically. He echos what others have said - being overweight is far worse for our joints than running is. Running does not destroy knees. But, as others have pointed out, the extra weight does put on extra strain, so you need to proceed with caution, building up strength, good form, etc.
No, but animals that actually have evolved for running are magnitudes faster than we are. How many animals are you able to catch on foot?
We were designed for constant, long distance running, since we largely didn't evolved as hunters, but hunter-gatherers. It was key to be able to sustain a constant walk, in order to gather food. Hunting was largely opportunistic.
^that is rubbish -we were not designed for constant long, distance running.
1st off we were not designed - cute idea but we are nothing special just the only animals aware of our own impending death and suffering.
2nd - long distance running is not good for you - endurance running is not something we were 'built' for - you can condition yourself to be a long distance runner but you are going to look like skin and bones - rather HIIT SIT would be preferable if you are trying to look healthy and be healthy. Endurance and long distance running has a place in your workouts for heart health - but it is not good to do regularly for the average person - and unless they have a very low bodyfat% I recommend they avoid it all together and stick to HIIT.
just google sprinters vs marathon runners - and look at the difference in appearance.0 -
I am thinking about switching up my exercises. It seems silly but I got it in my head that running will destroy my knees. My friend says that being fat destroys them, not running. I weigh 256 lbs. (116 kg. or 18 stone 4 lbs.)
Your friend is correct.
Running will strengthen a lot of things, paired with lifting, you'll have strong legs all over.0 -
Lots of great information and tips shared in this thread, but one thing I haven't seen yet is that it is important to vary the types of surfaces you run on. For example, cement is harder than asphalt so try not to only run on cement. Also, don't run on roads TOO often because they are cambered to prevent water from pooling. which can mess with your gait.
I used to run 6 days/week; in retrospect, I wish had taken more than one rest day per week.0 -
2nd - long distance running is not good for you - endurance running is not something we were 'built' for
So we're not persistence hunters? We don't have physical advantages in our legs and cardiovascular system that lean towards suggesting that we're extremely well suited to long steady runs? (Design of our achilles tendon as an energy saving device, ability to sweat as we do for cooling.)
So Daniel Lieberman is totally off?
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/06/daniel_lieberman_long_distance_running_we_evolved_endurance_and_dislike.html0 -
2nd - long distance running is not good for you - endurance running is not something we were 'built' for
So we're not persistence hunters? We don't have physical advantages in our legs and cardiovascular system that lean towards suggesting that we're extremely well suited to long steady runs? (Design of our achilles tendon as an energy saving device, ability to sweat as we do for cooling.)
So Daniel Lieberman is totally off?
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/06/daniel_lieberman_long_distance_running_we_evolved_endurance_and_dislike.html
The fact that we are one of about three species (not including some of the dogs that we've bred) are even CAPABLE of running a continuous marathon without dying.0 -
2nd - long distance running is not good for you - endurance running is not something we were 'built' for
So we're not persistence hunters? We don't have physical advantages in our legs and cardiovascular system that lean towards suggesting that we're extremely well suited to long steady runs? (Design of our achilles tendon as an energy saving device, ability to sweat as we do for cooling.)
So Daniel Lieberman is totally off?
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/06/daniel_lieberman_long_distance_running_we_evolved_endurance_and_dislike.html
The fact that we are one of about three species (not including some of the dogs that we've bred) are even CAPABLE of running a continuous marathon without dying.
Or run further than a marathon without suffering mortal danger.
What's interesting is that we can do this because the animals we ate couldn't. We'd run them to death over the course of several miles, and several hours. We can still do that. I know guys that just dream of the perfect shot to fell an elk, I personally would rather run one down, that would be a hunt.0 -
No - we were Born to run .. we evolved that way --- we didn't evolve to be overweight - which puts more strain on many parts of our body.
That is just patently untrue. If we evolved to run, as you claim, we would be at least as fast as another animal that evolved to run: The cheetah, who routinely hits 50mph or so, and can hit bursts up to 70mph.
The fastest human recorded was about 28mph or so (Usain Bolt). And, the injury threshold is 25-26 mph.
Research shows we evolved for long distance, constant walking, with short bursts of speed for hunting. There was a lone study that may show we evolved for running, but again, that's a lone study and a conclusion of 2 researchers. Not the general consensus.
So any other animal that cannot run as fast a cheetah was not meant to run?
Your post is actually contradictory. If we were built for short bursts of speed for hunting, wouldn't we have fast short bursts of speed as other predators do, like the cheetah? If you compare physiology of animals that have short bursts of speed, we are very different.
OP - I help coach a Learn to Run program. We have a number of speakers come in and address a number of topics. The doctor who comes in to talk addresses this specifically. He echos what others have said - being overweight is far worse for our joints than running is. Running does not destroy knees. But, as others have pointed out, the extra weight does put on extra strain, so you need to proceed with caution, building up strength, good form, etc.
No, but animals that actually have evolved for running are magnitudes faster than we are. How many animals are you able to catch on foot?
We were designed for constant, long distance running, since we largely didn't evolved as hunters, but hunter-gatherers. It was key to be able to sustain a constant walk, in order to gather food. Hunting was largely opportunistic.
We can track and run down most of them by persistence hunting. Almost no other animal can endurance run the way humans can. They will die first.0 -
2nd - long distance running is not good for you
Huh...endurance running is not something we were 'built' for - you can condition yourself to be a long distance runner but you are going to look like skin and bones
If I look around my office right now, none of the endurance athletes looks particularly unhealthy. All have bodyfat on the lower end of the spectrum, although not excepotionally low, and all seem to cope perfectly well with being a pretty reasonable build. Must be something to do with all the eating to fuel the training...just google sprinters vs marathon runners - and look at the difference in appearance.
Oh not that old chestnut again.
That assumes that the only training that they do is running, rather than having a cross training and resistance training plan that optimises their build for their sport.0 -
We can track and run down most of them by persistence hunting. Almost no other animal can endurance run the way humans can. They will die first.
I think this section from the article I linked is highly relevant here:AA: But we have adaptations for this kind of endurance running?
DL: Yes. Our bodies are loaded with all kinds of features: short toes that require less energy to stabilize and generate less shock when running; the Achilles tendon that stores and releases energy appropriately as we run; the large gluteus maximus muscles that steady the trunk; and stabilization of the head. I'm a middle-aged professor, I'm not a great specimen of an athlete, but I can easily run a marathon at a speed that would cause a dog my size to gallop.
AA: What's your best marathon time?
DL: [Laughs] 3 hours and 34 minutes. There are guys who can run almost twice as fast as me.
AA: Still, if you made an animal run that far at your speed, you would ...
DL: I'd have dinner.
I'd have dinner.0
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