Muscle Break Down and Growth

albayin

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?
2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

WBB55

In general, you yourself have a certain number of muscle cells right now. Each of those muscle cells can grow and change.

But you can't very easily build actual new muscle cells if you are eating at a caloric deficiency.

Exercise stretches and tears our muscles, then they repair themselves when we sleep and take rest days. They might repair themselves in a different shape and size, but not necessarily actually build new actual cells.

Running is good for working the muscles of your legs, butt -- and also somewhat your abs. But running on a caloric deficit probably isn't going to build any actual new muscle cells.

albayin

In general, you yourself have a certain number of muscle cells right now. Each of those muscle cells can grow and change.

But you can't very easily build actual new muscle cells if you are eating at a caloric deficiency.

Exercise stretches and tears our muscles, then they repair themselves when we sleep and take rest days. They might repair themselves in a different shape and size, but not necessarily actually build new actual cells.

Running is good for working the muscles of your legs, butt -- and also somewhat your abs. But running on a caloric deficit probably isn't going to build any actual new muscle cells.

are you saying if eating more than enough while running actually can build muscle as well?

ninerbuff

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

WBB55

are you saying if eating more than enough while running actually can build muscle as well?

If you are actually trying to build more muscle cells in your legs, then eating at a surplus and running could do it if you don't already have enough muscle in your leg to do the activity. But in my mind, it would take a plan of a 10% or so surplus of calories and progressive training program involving not just running, but things like lifting heavy weights. Lots of heavy weights. But again, you'd probably want to eat at a surplus to accomplish this.

albayin

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

DeguelloTex

My lower legs got larger even before I started to lift and even at a deficit, from hauling my large self around at increasingly longer distances and in shorter times. It's noticeable enough that people commented. It hasn't done anything noticeable for the rest of my legs. No doubt it was less than lifting and a surplus would have done, but it's still a nice bonus.

ironanimal

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

albayin

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

WBB55

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

Well, if you don't weigh a lot, and you understand how momentum works and you have good mechanics and you have endurance and heart capacity to run, and there's no hills, you don't need ALL that much muscle to run. They don't need to build much, for some people. Running doesn't build leg muscles for me personally, but I know it builds calves in some people who didn't have big calves to start with. But it doesn't build my calves, quads, hams, or glutes -- personally. I run to build endurance, personally.

WalkingAlong

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

albayin

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

yes, someone I know of recently dropped 10 pounds and looks stick thin now. She stopped eating (like 800 calories a day) and climbs on treadmill for 90 minutes every day...it's kind of depressing to me considering she was already thinner than me to begin with...

WBB55

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

yes, someone I know of recently dropped 10 pounds and looks stick thin now. She stopped eating (like 800 calories a day) and climbs on treadmill for 90 minutes every day...it's kind of depressing to me considering she was already thinner than me to begin with...

Don't get depressed about this or compare yourself to her. She very likely lost muscle. Which is the opposite of what you said you want to do.

albayin

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

yes, someone I know of recently dropped 10 pounds and looks stick thin now. She stopped eating (like 800 calories a day) and climbs on treadmill for 90 minutes every day...it's kind of depressing to me considering she was already thinner than me to begin with...

Don't get depressed about this or compare yourself to her. She very likely lost muscle. Which is the opposite of what you said you want to do.

I guess I wanted to look thin yet don't want to lose my little precious muscles...I think I need to make sure what I really want.

WBB55

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

yes, someone I know of recently dropped 10 pounds and looks stick thin now. She stopped eating (like 800 calories a day) and climbs on treadmill for 90 minutes every day...it's kind of depressing to me considering she was already thinner than me to begin with...

Don't get depressed about this or compare yourself to her. She very likely lost muscle. Which is the opposite of what you said you want to do.

I guess I wanted to look thin yet don't want to lose my little precious muscles...I think I need to make sure what I really want.

Yeah, decide what you want. But you don't have to lift weights to the point where you're building new muscle, if that's not what you want. Running is typically considered cardio. And cardio is for the heart. If you're new to running, you might build a little muscle. But it won't build much (again, if you're new to it, or have very small muscles, you might build for a while).

Maybe what you need to do is focus on body fat percentage. Have you ever had it measured?

albayin

When Chris Hemsworth needs to go from Thor-sized to skinny, he hits the treadmill and lowers his protein. FWIW.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2013/11/21/chris-hemsworth-s-demi-god-waves-goodbye-to-the-protein-shakes-1183340?lt_source=external,manual#!bebrSD

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/rushs-chris-hemsworth-crash-dieting-619812

yes, someone I know of recently dropped 10 pounds and looks stick thin now. She stopped eating (like 800 calories a day) and climbs on treadmill for 90 minutes every day...it's kind of depressing to me considering she was already thinner than me to begin with...

Don't get depressed about this or compare yourself to her. She very likely lost muscle. Which is the opposite of what you said you want to do.

I guess I wanted to look thin yet don't want to lose my little precious muscles...I think I need to make sure what I really want.

Yeah, decide what you want. But you don't have to lift weights to the point where you're building new muscle, if that's not what you want. Running is typically considered cardio. And cardio is for the heart. If you're new to running, you might build a little muscle. But it won't build much (again, if you're new to it, or have very small muscles, you might build for a while).

Maybe what you need to do is focus on body fat percentage. Have you ever had it measured?

Can't say new to running but I am not an elite runner for sure. I have been running on and off for over 2 years, 10-20 miles /week depending on my mood...

ironanimal

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

It will, up until you've built enough where no more is necessary. At that point, long distance running becomes a matter of cardiovascular and technical efficiency.

ninerbuff

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Genetics determines muscle shape. Tendon attachment will be the difference between someone with a "full" bicep and a "short" bicep (the gap between a flexed bicep and elbow usually determines this). Muscle "size" is entirely dependent on training regimen and nutrition rather than genetics.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

albayin

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

It will, up until you've built enough where no more is necessary. At that point, long distance running becomes a matter of cardiovascular and technical efficiency.

Exactly, you will max out your muscle potential running and there will be no more growth.

Serious runners often include resistence trainging in their routine to give them the power they need and want to do long distances. Not all runners but some.

My fav is bike riding, I do weights because it gives me strength to pedal faster and longer, stronger arms to pull on the bike when needed. Stronger core and body to carry me on my hikes.

Many athletes incorporate many forms of excersize to aid them, this is why they are awesome to look at

I found the models in athleta catalogs are really "awesome to look at".

Like this one

http://athleta.gap.com/Asset_Archive/ATWeb/content/0008/119/126/assets/whats_new.jpg

WBB55

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

It will, up until you've built enough where no more is necessary. At that point, long distance running becomes a matter of cardiovascular and technical efficiency.

Exactly, you will max out your muscle potential running and there will be no more growth.

Serious runners often include resistence trainging in their routine to give them the power they need and want to do long distances. Not all runners but some.

My fav is bike riding, I do weights because it gives me strength to pedal faster and longer, stronger arms to pull on the bike when needed. Stronger core and body to carry me on my hikes.

Many athletes incorporate many forms of excersize to aid them, this is why they are awesome to look at

I found the models in athleta catalogs are really "awesome to look at".

Like this one

http://athleta.gap.com/Asset_Archive/ATWeb/content/0008/119/126/assets/whats_new.jpg

My guess (I could obviously be wrong) is that she does a lot more than just run 10 miles a week to look like that.

albayin

I have 2 questions

1. If all exercises break down muscle, why are we told that running/zumba/etc won't help muscle growth even with high protein intake?

Muscle "growth" requires muscle to be progressively overloaded and done on an anaerobic program. Running/zumba/etc. are aerobic exercise (unless done in HIIT fashion and with higher resistance). Aerobic exercise is cardiovascular and muscle endurance training.

2. Does running really build leaner muscle?

No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular.

Actually I have a third question
How long does it take for muscle to start "shrinking" without progressive estimulation?

Sorry for being ignorant. I am learning
:flowerforyou:

There's no definite timeline. It would totally be dependent on hormones, type of workout and duration, recovery, and nutrition, whether on has a physical labor job, etc. So many variables.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You said "No. One one builds muscle, it's muscle. There's no such thing as "leaner" muscle. There's just people with less body fat who are less muscular."

Looking at elite runners, most of them look lean and long, and thin...besides genetics, could their muscle shape be different than big muscle builders? Both are supposed to have very low body fat, right?

Their muscle is less developed (in terms of hypertrophy) than say, a sprinter or weightlifter. Muscles can become larger or smaller, and that's it - you can't change the skeletal attachment points.

"less developed" meaning "running doesn't help muscle building"? is this assumption close to reality?

It will, up until you've built enough where no more is necessary. At that point, long distance running becomes a matter of cardiovascular and technical efficiency.

Exactly, you will max out your muscle potential running and there will be no more growth.

Serious runners often include resistence trainging in their routine to give them the power they need and want to do long distances. Not all runners but some.

My fav is bike riding, I do weights because it gives me strength to pedal faster and longer, stronger arms to pull on the bike when needed. Stronger core and body to carry me on my hikes.

Many athletes incorporate many forms of excersize to aid them, this is why they are awesome to look at

I found the models in athleta catalogs are really "awesome to look at".

Like this one

http://athleta.gap.com/Asset_Archive/ATWeb/content/0008/119/126/assets/whats_new.jpg

My guess (I could obviously be wrong) is that she does a lot more than just run 10 miles a week to look like that.

you are right. I believe these models are doing more than we can imagine...Of course, genetics are always playing their roles...

In case I wasn't clear....I run 10-20 miles/week on top of 3 days heavy training and kick boxing....:)