Picking running shoes for a first time flat footed runner
lavaughan69
Posts: 459 Member
I just started running today. A friend and I are doing a run walk program to train for a 5K this fall. I've never been a runner, always a walker so my shoes are more walking specific. Right now I'm just wearing a pair of sketchers. I've just spent an hour researching online what the best shoe would be for a flat feet and came up with a bunch of selections. Then I read a study that was just conducted proving that running shoes designed for specific gait issues don't prevent injuries nor do they correct improper running techniques. The results of the study concluded that you should just pick a shoe that's comfortable!
I'm looking for feedback from anyone that is flat footed. What shoes have you tried?
I'm looking for feedback from anyone that is flat footed. What shoes have you tried?
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Replies
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Your very best bet is to fet evaluated at a credible running store and properly fitted based on the findings. I recommned Road Runner Sports if there is one in your area because they do video analysis of your strike. If there not a mlocal RRS you can likley find another that useses video. Regardless, any evaluation by an experienced eye cann get you good fit.0
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I'd go get properly fitted at a professional running store.
If you plan on running, the one are you don't want to skimp on is your foot wear.
An experience running store will be able to guide you into the correct type of shoe for your particular feet (we are all different).
Proper shoe selection will reduce the chance of injury unless your plan is to go barefoot.
Also important is to start slow and build a solid foundation for your running. No one goes out and runs a Marathon right out of the gate.
Most injuries are a result of poor training (Terrible too's.. too fast, too far, too soon.) or a biomechanical imbalance. Shoes address the imbalance... the training is up to you to look after.
Cheers,0 -
Thank you all for your responses. I read an article that talked about the pointlessness of gait analysis...here's a bit of it...sorry for the length. This is why I've gotten so confused about what to choose. Everything I read keeps creating contradictions! I will be heading into the US (I'm Canadian) to look for shoes on the weekend because they are a lot cheaper there. I'll search around to see if I can find a running shop there. I was originally going to go to ****'s sporting goods, but perhaps that's not a good idea.
Gait analysis rests on a number of false assumptions and an incomplete methodology. The first assumption being that your foot strike is somehow a natural unchangeable phenomenon that can be fixed by applying the correct shoe. This assumption is wrong: foot strike is a result of the hierarchy of movement – posture, rhythm and relaxation, or in other words – your technique. There’s nothing inherent, genetic or unchangeable about it. Can shoes fix it? A shoe can adapt to whatever striking pattern you see on the gait analysis “at that moment” but here’s the problem: most gait analysis is performed in shoes! Since it is becoming common knowledge again that shoes fundamentally change the foot-strike, because they alter your posture and your body’s ability to react to the ground, analysing someone in a pair of shoes cannot tell you “how they run”. It can only tell you “how they run in that specific pair of shoes.”
Gait analysis does not measure anything “natural”
This assumptions also undermines the statement that shoes are prescribed towards the “natural inward and outward roll” of the foot (pronation) recorded during gait analysis. Sadly, gait analysis cannot measure the natural roll of the feet because a) it is usually not conducted barefoot and b) the majority of runners tested are not adopting a natural running gait anyway.
Then there’s the methodology of gait analysis, which is flawed at its core. Gait analysis only video records your feet not the entire body. This is similar to recording a bowling ball striking the pins but not stance, steps and throw leading into that result. Would you feel confident telling someone how their throw is from just a recording of the end-result (how the ball hits the pins?). I would not.
We also need to accept the raw reality of the current injury crisis: gait analysis and running shoes matched to that gait have been around for a while. Yet the crisis remains and statistics continue to be depressing to read. No matter what your reasons, if you are doing something and it is not effective, it is time to consider a new approach:
Gait analysis out, running technique analysis in
So what to do? The real solution is very simple, and anyone with a portable camera supporting 60 frame per second slow-motion playback can execute the first part of it. You film someone outdoors or on a treadmill, from the side, and you film them both in their regular pair of shoes and barefoot. So why do not all running shops simply do this instead when it’s much less advanced technology than what is commonly set up for gait analysis? Because the second part of the solution is harder – interpreting what you see on the video and prescribing the right corrective actions.
Runner filmed on the uphill
CE Squad runner Amidou filmed on the uphill. Now cut away all but the feet and draw your conclusions.
This cannot be done in ten or twenty minutes, nor can it be done beyond the very basic intervention in an hour. It requires great skill and experience on part of the person looking at the video which includes a full understanding of biomechanics, the laws of motion and human movement. But this is the direction the running store industry needs to move towards. Traditional gait analysis has to disappear from running shops everywhere and be replaced by a full video assessment, a basic introductory session to get the runner on the right track straight out of the shop (or as close to it as possible) and then recommendation for follow-up work. Some people will require significant work, four hours or more, before they are technically at the level they need to be at to run enjoyably and injury free in their new footwear (or barefoot if they prefer). As an industry we have to start being honest about this and stop professing to provide magic bullet solutions. This is simply offering false hope. The plaster may be on the wound, and you may not see the bleeding, but it still leaks beneath.
But running shops will be driven out of business!
Enabling runners to run barefoot may seem like a pretty poor sales strategy for running stores out there until they consider that this will happen eventually anyway. But even if 100% of the running community adopts barefoot running styles, it does not have to mean the end of the running shoe industry nor does it have to mean a fatal blow to running stores, for whom shoes are a big money maker.
Given the variety of situations, weather conditions and terrains, there is likely to always be a demand for shoes. Promoting only the shoes we know have the correct attributes to enable optimal running form will be key: 3mm sole or less, wide toe-box, zero-drop profile and a sole that allows for necessary proprioceptive feedback and so on. All the major shoe brands are moving in this direction. Most are still very far away from where they need to be (Nike Frees being a particularly egregious example of misunderstood application of “natural running shoes”) but they will get there eventually and running stores need to be ahead of the game. It’ll be better for consumers, with less injuries and less expenses on shoes, and opens up new business opportunities for running store owners. Happy customers and happy consumers. Sounds perfect, right?
A road-map for a future without clunky shoes and gait analysis
As serious running professionals it is time to stop selling shoes in isolation as if they are a solution in themselves. They are not and, in the case of the majority of modern shoes, they are still a fundamental part of the problem. So, unfortunately, is gait analysis because it leaves a false impression with runners that they are buying shoes individually suited to them and their unique problem. The truth is that the shoes are only individually suited to the problem recorded for that runner in whatever they were wearing during the test. As for the unique problem – there is none! What the gait analysis measures is just a symptom of some fundamental technical errors, often caused by the very shoes being tested or being sold. These technical errors are the root cause that running store professionals need to hone in on in the future or refer on to specialists who can aid their customers with permanent solutions to the real problems. Rather than trying to rush sales staff through running technique courses, running store owners should form alliances with existing experts and use them as a resource to educate and protect their customers from injury.0 -
+1 for the fitting at a running store.
Personally, my chiropractor recommended and I LOVE my Brooks.0 -
Running shoe stores wouldn't be in business without convincing the general population that their gimmick (ie gait analysis) was absolutely necessary.
That said - who doesn't love a gimmick and a little one on one attention? It wouldn't hurt to go get your gait analyzed!
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I have one foot that is completely flat and the other has a slight arch. I leave funny wet footprints behind when I get out of a pool.
I started reading the article, got to the part about the gait analysis and quit. First of all, I had my gait analyzed at Roadrunner Sports and they have everyone run barefoot. I've seen gait analysis done at other stores and they also had people running barefoot on the treadmill, so that whole part of the article is flawed. If the author got something so basic incorrect, I'm not going to worry about the rest of it.
All I know is, I was having knee issue running in the Asics running shoes I bought off the shelf at Famous Footwear. I had my gait analyzed and wore a pair of shoes recommended to me and the knee problem went away never to return.0 -
Any decent running store will admit that a gait analysis isn't perfect (heck I went to mine with a friend who was getting fitted this weekend, and the salesman said that in order to really *kitten* her gait, he would have to see her at 5 miles in, he couldn't really do it in 30 seconds). However, due to this, a good running store will usually have a 30 or 90 day return policy. Also, they will usually test things like knee and arch strength by running you through simple exercises (walking, single leg squats, etc) barefoot. The utility of it is trying on a bunch of different shoes. You will know when you find the 'right ones', they won't need to broken in or anything, and if for some reason, they don't work out, you can easily exchange them. I've seen too many runners injure themselves terribly in cheap shoes to suggest anything else than an actual running store fitting.0
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I started reading the article, got to the part about the gait analysis and quit. First of all, I had my gait analyzed at Roadrunner Sports and they have everyone run barefoot. I've seen gait analysis done at other stores and they also had people running barefoot on the treadmill, so that whole part of the article is flawed. If the author got something so basic incorrect, I'm not going to worry about the rest of it.
All I know is, I was having knee issue running in the Asics running shoes I bought off the shelf at Famous Footwear. I had my gait analyzed and wore a pair of shoes recommended to me and the knee problem went away never to return.
Thank you for this. The hardest part about online research is sifting through and finding what's truth and what isn't. And as I've never been to a gait analysis I would never have caught that inconsistency in the article!
I just found a store called Fleet Feet in Buffalo that had good reviews and they described how the staff has you walk barefoot etc. I'll give them a try.0 -
Hello Fellow Canadian! (I'm from Winnipeg.)
I've had my gait analyzed by both trained instore staff AND also by licensed physiotherapists.
This is a religious debate among the barefoot runners, the minimalist, maximalist and normal shoe runners. Each one will tell you they are right and argue points. Many of the points are valid some are not. For every article you read, there is likely a counter article to dispute it.
I happen to believe we should take pieces of wisdom from each and draw our own conclusions on what works best for us.
If you plan on going the route of a gait analysis, keep in mind that your gait is fluid. You should have an analysis done periodically to ensure that your gait hasn't changed. As runners that is exactly what happens. We get faster/slower/stronger/weaker etc and our gait changes. When our gait changes we need to reevaluate our shoes.
For what it is worth, there are also different levels of Gait Analysis... a Gait analysis by a physiotherapist is significantly different than the one done by the clerk at a running store.
I'm not here to sell shoes. I don't work for a shoe store (but have coached for the Running Room) I would suggest that getting properly fitted for a running shoe would be helpful to you as a beginning runner. If you find a shoe you like that suits your foot... then buy them online or on sale. Just don't sacrifice comfort either. When you sacrifice comfort, you end up injured and for many that means quitting running. Also keep in mind that what feels right walking around a store may feel different running and try to move up a half to a full shoe size. The longer you run, the more your feet will swell. A larger size will cut down on the dreaded purple toe nail.
Anyways feel free to add me as a friend if you are looking.
Good Luck in your endeavors!0 -
+1 for the fitting at a running store.
Personally, my chiropractor recommended and I LOVE my Brooks.
+1 from me too!0 -
I just found a store called Fleet Feet in Buffalo that had good reviews and they described how the staff has you walk barefoot etc. I'll give them a try.
We have Fleet Feet in Syracuse, and I LOVE them! They are the best! :happy: I go there for ALL my running needs (and even some of my triathlon needs, too) 0 -
My first "real" running shoe buying experience was at the local running shop and the gentleman asked me some questions, had my hike up my pant legs, watched me walk and then had me run barefoot in the store. I have some really flat feet. He recommended a stability shoe, that while QUITE comfy for my foot, created a cascade of problems through my legs. It took me MONTHS to finally go see a sports medicine doc. He suggested a gait change (from heel striking to mid/fore foot striking...more mid) and that I needed a LOW drop, neutral shoe. Something like a Brooks PureFlow or Saucony Kinvara. I made the adjustment (over weeks & weeks) to my gait with my new low drop neutral shoes and have been MUCH happier since. In fact, my feet don't roll the way the gentleman initially thought.
I go back to the store and have conversations with the staff now that I know my "foot issues" and we've found various shoes that have been good, OK, and great. It's trial and error.0 -
I just found a store called Fleet Feet in Buffalo that had good reviews and they described how the staff has you walk barefoot etc. I'll give them a try.
We have Fleet Feet in Syracuse, and I LOVE them! They are the best! :happy: I go there for ALL my running needs (and even some of my triathlon needs, too)
That's great! Thank you for the feedback. I'm dreading the cost of good running shoes, but it's better than the cost of joint damage!!0 -
Fellow flat footer here! Thanks for posting this topic.
I plan to get analyzed at Big Peach Running company here in the Atlanta area. I am also thinking of going to Abbadabba's to get fitted just because I'm anal and like to do comparisons. LOL.
I will then try to find their recommended shoe at a cheaper price somewhere else.
Good luck.0 -
Definitely go to a running store. You have to buy shoes anyway, and the good ones (which you should be using regardless) cost the same whether you buy them there or somewhere else. I have always been told to go to Fleet Feet, but I learned there is a guy here in Nashville that they call the "shoe whisperer" and I am going to him next time. Apparently he sits in a chair near the front door and watches everyone walk up the sidewalk and knows what shoes you need before you ever get in the door.0
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Should mention: Once you go that first time and know what kind of shoe you need, then you can go pick them up at Famous Footwear if you want.0
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My feet aren't completely flat but pretty close. I have been going to Fleet Feet in St. Louis and have had good experiences with the staff there. The ones at my local store do not get commission and there is no pressure to buy anything. They take the time to fit you and give you as much time as you need to find what shoe is comfortable for you. I personally am a fan of Mizuno sneakers but they have also recommended Brooks for me on my last few visits in addition to Mizuno. The Brooks also felt good when I tried them. In the end it's what shoe is most comfortable for you.
If shopping online after getting fitted at a store runningwarehouse.com has free shipping and a liberal return policy if the shoes are not to your liking.
Also don't dread the price of a well fitting shoe it is so worth it. I have skimped and bought cheap sneakers which were not right for my feet in the past to save $30-40. The pain in my feet was not worth the amount of cash saved. Also, once you find a sneaker you like, if you have any extra cash the lines usually come out with something new every year or sometimes discontinue a shoe and you can find deep discounts on that sneaker at the running stores or online prior to the new shoe coming out .
Good luck.0 -
I have flat feet. Since you are new to running, take some time to watch a few videos on Chi Running or Forefoot Running or Low Impact Running. Search youtube, watch, and learn. All of the techniques have a similar thread of leaning at the ankles and landing on the front of your foot. It will reduce impact on your knees and arch. Go to a running store and get their opinion, try a few different brands, styles, and designs. As you begin running pay attention to aches, pains, and imbalances and watch how your shoes wear out and how this affects how you feel. Learn about your particular biomechanics and how they change as you get stronger and better at running. I started with one kind of shoe, and now wear a completely different kind, on the opposite end of the shoe spectrum. Go with what works for you, there is no "right" answer about what kind of shoe you should be wearing, and there are a lot more factors associated with shoes and running success than your arches.0
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Let the salesperson know that money is an issue and ask that they recommend something from last year's models. Once you know whether you pronote, overpronate or are neutral, you should be able to find shoes that'll work for you online. I'm neutral and found a pair of neutral Asics at one of their outlet stores recently that cost $45. Even the most expensive pair of current model shoes I've purchased have only set me back $100. Well worth the price.That's great! Thank you for the feedback. I'm dreading the cost of good running shoes, but it's better than the cost of joint damage!!
Fleet Feet should have a guarantee similar to Roadrunner Sports. That is, if the shoes aren't working for you, you can take them back and get another pair for only the cost difference. I ended up going back my first time after a few weeks because the shoes were still a little too small (I ended up going up a full size from my normal shoe size) and they let me pick out a different pair that cost a few dollars more and all I did was pay the difference.0 -
I have flat feet. Since you are new to running, take some time to watch a few videos on Chi Running or Forefoot Running or Low Impact Running. Search youtube, watch, and learn. All of the techniques have a similar thread of leaning at the ankles and landing on the front of your foot. It will reduce impact on your knees and arch. Go to a running store and get their opinion, try a few different brands, styles, and designs. As you begin running pay attention to aches, pains, and imbalances and watch how your shoes wear out and how this affects how you feel. Learn about your particular biomechanics and how they change as you get stronger and better at running. I started with one kind of shoe, and now wear a completely different kind, on the opposite end of the shoe spectrum. Go with what works for you, there is no "right" answer about what kind of shoe you should be wearing, and there are a lot more factors associated with shoes and running success than your arches.
I'll add natural running and barefoot running to this list. All of these are techniques that optimize the natural biomechanics of your body.
OP:
My recommendation to a new runner is avoid shoes that "correct" your form until you have one. If you go with a running shoe consider a neutral shoe until you have a good stable running form that works for your body. I've even heard of barefoot runners with flat feet showing improvement as their feet strengthened and form improved.
I tried running shoes at first and each one resulted in a different issue that could be linked to an unbalance in my form. Ultimately I moved to a barefoot/minimalist technique and shoes. The focus instead was on strengthening the entire chain from core to toe and improving my running form.0 -
The results of the study concluded that you should just pick a shoe that's comfortable!
But you won't find one that's comfortable without one that addresses your particular gait. Which is what a running store will hopefully do for you. When I run in the wrong shoes? Pain. When I run in the right shoes? No pain. Pretty simple and no expensive study needed.
Many people with flat feet overpronate. Those who overpronate typically need stability shoes. The degree to which you overpronate, however, will determine which stability shoes (or even a motion control shoe if it's quite severe) you need. It may still take some trial and error to get the right shoe.0 -
Everyone is going to say to go to a running shoe store. I'm not discrediting that advice. But, I have the flattest and widest feet in the world lol and these are so &&%^@#&*(@ COMFY!!! There is barely any arch in the sole. Its almost completely flat on the inside! If you have flat and wide feet, you'll understand my excitement of finding a comfortable shoe haha. Another plus is that they are very affordable. I've been using the Cohesion 6 for a while and will need to replace them soon. They just "upgraded" this shoe so I'll have to get the Cohesion 7. I tried them on the other day and they fit the same as my 6's.
Saucony Cohesion
http://www.famousfootwear.com/en-US/Product/00433-1031343/Saucony/Grey_Mint_Navy/Womens+Cohesion+7.aspx0 -
Thank you all for your responses. I read an article that talked about the pointlessness of gait analysis..
hmm, one article, vs hundreds of articles concluding that shoe type can be a contributor to injury risk and running efficiency.
I skimmed the extract, but it would be more meaningful to know where it came from. The conclusion is in line with much other thinking, injury risk and running efficiency are affected by a wide range of different factors, including form, biomechanical characteristics, terrain, experience etc. Appropriate shoes can help, but they're not the be all and end all. Too often on here people do jump to shoes as the answer, sometimes it is, and sometimes it's not.
Having the right shoes can contribute to adopting the correct running form, but equally one needs to be conscious of he form and learn to run. I know that when I'm fatigued my pace lengthens, which can lead to pain. If I run in shoes that are too cushioned, ie designed for someone who under-pronates, they'll encourage a long stride length, which can give me knee pain and serious shin pain. If I run in support shoes I'll not need to focus on my form, so can think about other things.
They're certainly part of the answer.0 -
Everyone is going to say to go to a running shoe store. I'm not discrediting that advice. But, I have the flattest and widest feet in the world lol and these are so &&%^@#&*(@ COMFY!!! There is barely any arch in the sole. Its almost completely flat on the inside! If you have flat and wide feet, you'll understand my excitement of finding a comfortable shoe haha. Another plus is that they are very affordable. I've been using the Cohesion 6 for a while and will need to replace them soon. They just "upgraded" this shoe so I'll have to get the Cohesion 7. I tried them on the other day and they fit the same as my 6's.
Saucony Cohesion
http://www.famousfootwear.com/en-US/Product/00433-1031343/Saucony/Grey_Mint_Navy/Womens+Cohesion+7.aspx
The reviews on this shoe are great. I'm thinking since they are so inexpensive and I've literally just started running that I might give them a shot (if they fit well when I try them on) and invest more if I stick with it. I'm still in shock that I agreed to do this 5K...I've always said I would never consider running!0 -
I will then try to find their recommended shoe at a cheaper price somewhere else.
There is a school of thought that says if you're going to go in and benefit from a service that the shop offer, that it's only reasonable to buy the shoes from there as well, they're not a charity after all.
One of the benefits of going into a store is that you may find somewhere that has a returns policy, something you won't get online, should the shoes that they identify not actually be appropriate. That's a big bonus for a new runner as it can take time for the gait to settle.
Also, building relationships help, and the store may have some form of affiliated club, or coaching schemes. They may also have a loyalty scheme.0 -
My most recent pair is Asics Gel Kayano. I went to a specialty store, and had my gait analyzed. What happened to me is what a few people mentioned in your post..... went too hard too fast. That resulted in physical therapy and a $560 bill later (after insurance). During therapy, I was taught how to run right (on my midfoot, as most flat footers don't). I'll be curious to see if they recommend the same shoe or not, when I am approved to run again.
My advice; get your gait analyzed. Specialty stores exist for a reason. Don't care about the look of the shoe, as long as it's exactly what your feet need. Most, if not all, stores will let you return them if they don't feel good (I returned a pair two months after I bought them).
Good luck!0 -
Thank you all for your responses. I read an article that talked about the pointlessness of gait analysis..
hmm, one article, vs hundreds of articles concluding that shoe type can be a contributor to injury risk and running efficiency.
I skimmed the extract, but it would be more meaningful to know where it came from. The conclusion is in line with much other thinking, injury risk and running efficiency are affected by a wide range of different factors, including form, biomechanical characteristics, terrain, experience etc. Appropriate shoes can help, but they're not the be all and end all. Too often on here people do jump to shoes as the answer, sometimes it is, and sometimes it's not.
Having the right shoes can contribute to adopting the correct running form, but equally one needs to be conscious of he form and learn to run. I know that when I'm fatigued my pace lengthens, which can lead to pain. If I run in shoes that are too cushioned, ie designed for someone who under-pronates, they'll encourage a long stride length, which can give me knee pain and serious shin pain. If I run in support shoes I'll not need to focus on my form, so can think about other things.
They're certainly part of the answer.
Here's link to the article I read.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/fitness/debunking-the-myth-of-specialized-running-shoes/article4268207/0 -
Interesting article, but from personal experience as a longtime runner and marathoner, I found a gait analysis very beneficial. I was skeptical until I finally acquiesced and had one done at Road Runner Sports. I discovered I'd been misinterpreting my foot mechanics for over 20 years. I've been running with the proper type shoe and custom fitted insoles for 4 years now and the knee and foot problems that plagued me for years have virtually disappeared.0
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Interesting, but one extremely small self selecting sample does not a convincing case make... Particularly when they have to wheel out a minimalist shoe advocate as support.
Note that minimalist shoes can work for some people, largely because it's as painful as hel to run in them if you don't have your form sorted.0
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