Grains vs Other Carbs

katerams

Right, so, I know we need carbs.

What I want to know is how dependent are our bodies on carbs from GRAINS.
Whilst I understand there are many people who eat a paleo diet and exclude the grains, I have heard so many arguements
from people in my future nutrition courses that we need grains to function properly.
I have tried a grain free diet before and ended up fainting by the second week. I was still eating complex carbs (sweet potato, pumpkin, beets etc). My workouts diminished and i felt generally crap.
I am thinking about going AT LEAST gluten free, as I have hashimoto's and have read numerous studies saying gluten only makes it worse.
I just want to know whether it's worth cutting out all the grains?
Thoughts, come at me.

meshashesha2012

this is an interesting comparison
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-1.html


for me personally i just avoid the foods i either dont like or limit the ones that dont agree with me but i do like. i think if you dont have issues with insulin, allergies or autoimmune issues then there's no need to limit grains.

Springfield1970

I doubt you passed out through lack of grains. Were you on a calorie deficit by any chance? You probably experienced a big drop in essential electrolytes from the water loss of cutting out the carbs, coupled with too much exercise.

Try eating at maintenance and no grains, take a potassium supplement, and see how your other symptoms feel. Only you will know if it works for you.

katerams

I doubt you passed out through lack of grains. Were you on a calorie deficit by any chance? You probably experienced a big drop in essential electrolytes from the water loss of cutting out the carbs, coupled with too much exercise.

Try eating at maintenance and no grains, take a potassium supplement, and see how your other symptoms feel. Only you will know if it works for you.

I was on a meal plan by my old trainer, who insisted "paleo was the way". I had to eat specific meals at specific times. I probably was on a deficit as he believes everyone can live off a 1200cal diet. I cut out sugar, dairy, fruit and most carbs. While I understand this is not specifically "paleo", it has kind of put me off cutting grains out.

mshannond

I cut out grains due to ibs and wheat intolerance, I felt great after 3 days and never looked back.
I sometimes eat the occasional bit of bread and get sick. You might have been too low carb maybe,

Springfield1970

I doubt you passed out through lack of grains. Were you on a calorie deficit by any chance? You probably experienced a big drop in essential electrolytes from the water loss of cutting out the carbs, coupled with too much exercise.

Try eating at maintenance and no grains, take a potassium supplement, and see how your other symptoms feel. Only you will know if it works for you.

I was on a meal plan by my old trainer, who insisted "paleo was the way". I had to eat specific meals at specific times. I probably was on a deficit as he believes everyone can live off a 1200cal diet. I cut out sugar, dairy, fruit and most carbs. While I understand this is not specifically "paleo", it has kind of put me off cutting grains out.

Well, I'm glad he's now your 'old' trainer!! 1200 is nothing. Were you exercising as well? You were'nt eating back your exercise calories were you? The guy needs a flipping slap.

katerams

I doubt you passed out through lack of grains. Were you on a calorie deficit by any chance? You probably experienced a big drop in essential electrolytes from the water loss of cutting out the carbs, coupled with too much exercise.

Try eating at maintenance and no grains, take a potassium supplement, and see how your other symptoms feel. Only you will know if it works for you.

I was on a meal plan by my old trainer, who insisted "paleo was the way". I had to eat specific meals at specific times. I probably was on a deficit as he believes everyone can live off a 1200cal diet. I cut out sugar, dairy, fruit and most carbs. While I understand this is not specifically "paleo", it has kind of put me off cutting grains out.

Well, I'm glad he's now your 'old' trainer!! 1200 is nothing. Were you exercising as well? You were'nt eating back your exercise calories were you? The guy needs a flipping slap.

Yep, i was doing hard workouts. HIIT, kettle bells, weighted exercises, cardio.... No eating back of exercise calls.
My diet looked like this:
Meal 1: 3 egg omelete with unlimited greens cooked in evoo
Meal 2: pre workout protein shake (protein powder, coconut or almond milk)
Meal 3: Post workout shake (protein powder, coconut or almond milk, handful of blueberries)
Meal 4: 3-4oz protein, 3 cups smart starches, unlimited greens, handful of nuts or cook meat in evoo
Meal 5: 3-4oz protein, 3 cups smart starches, unlimited greens, handful of nuts or cook meat in evoo
Meal 6: 3-4 oz protein, 3 cups smart starches, unlimited greens, handful of nuts or cook meat in evoo

That was my diet on a "high intensity day". On a low day, no starches at all. So of course, I would try to make 6/7 days high intensity so i could have my carbs (sweet potato, pumpkin, quinoa, beets).

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katerams

He had you on a bro diet at it's best. Be happy that he's no longer around.

Yes, my new trainer is much better I am eating a similar style of diet, but he gives me much more flexibility.
On the previous trainer's diet i wasnt even allowed cucumber because it "doesnt contribute anything to your body"

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Springfield1970

I was surprised to see how low calorie sweet potatoes, squashes, beetroot etc are.

I eat them all the time, great for recovery, stuffed full of nutrients and anti oxidants, and anti inflammatories.

Of course I eat them in addition to my other fuel. Pasta, ice cream, bread, rice and bananas.

Calories are the first most important thing for getting this health thing right.

It's a shame we all have to go through such a bunch of faddy crap only to end up eating just normal food!

I held on to low carb, low calorie, for YEARS!! My brain was so addled from lack of food I could not think straight.

I stubbornly held on, starving away the lean body mass, and binging back the fat. Back and forth, only a window of 10 pounds but my body composition was horrible in the end. Couple that with bad posture and I looked like a typical middle aged blah.

Springfield1970

He had you on a bro diet at it's best. Be happy that he's no longer around.

Yes, my new trainer is much better I am eating a similar style of diet, but he gives me much more flexibility.
On the previous trainer's diet i wasnt even allowed cucumber because it "doesnt contribute anything to your body"

Haha! What a complete moron! Scary. Anyway, have you considered doing this by yourself? Now you know you can eat what you like (with adequate macros), just logging calories in, out? You could go on holiday with the money you save!

perseverance14

I also have Hashimoto's, and I do eat some grains, but I don't eat too many of them. I think I do better with say, brown rice or potatoes than pasta, but it depends on the pasta, something like carba-nada noodles are fine, but if I were to eat a substantial amount of regular pasta, I definitely get bloated. I stick to carba-nada, Bertolli plus, things like that if I am going to eat pasta. Same with bread, better to eat whole grain, I like oat bread. When I started I did 45% protein, 35% carbs, 20% fat. Now I am much closer to goal and 35% protein, 40% carbs, 25% fat, and I usually hit my macros, although I have days I don't.

hookilau

I doubt you passed out through lack of grains. Were you on a calorie deficit by any chance? You probably experienced a big drop in essential electrolytes from the water loss of cutting out the carbs, coupled with too much exercise.

Try eating at maintenance and no grains, take a potassium supplement, and see how your other symptoms feel. Only you will know if it works for you.

This sounds most logical to me. I'm T2D, so I don't eat grains with the exception of chia seeds. I couldn't do Gluten free, even if I wanted to, would not be a viable option for me because the substitute flours are usually higher in carb count.

I eat a ketogenic diet (80/15/5) high fat, mod protein, low carb.

High potassium foods: coconut water, avocado

edited for typos

martyqueen52

Christ.... another carb topic.

Eat whatever you want, literally.... unless you have a medical issue, and count your macros / calories if your going to recomp. or just calories for weight loss.

hookilau

Christ.... another carb topic.

Eat whatever you want, literally.... unless you have a medical issue, and count your macros / calories if your going to recomp. or just calories for weight loss.

OP has Hashimoto's.

J72FIT

What the body needs is nutrients. IMO, the best way to accomplish this is to include as much variety possible (barring any medical conditions that warrant avoiding certain foods) into your diet.

IMO, the body does not need grains per se to function properly, it needs a sufficient amount of calories to function properly.

For me, I like my grains. They do not make up the bulk of my calories but are still in the mix all the same.

katerams

He had you on a bro diet at it's best. Be happy that he's no longer around.

Yes, my new trainer is much better I am eating a similar style of diet, but he gives me much more flexibility.
On the previous trainer's diet i wasnt even allowed cucumber because it "doesnt contribute anything to your body"

You should also realize that a trainer should not be telling you what to eat. That's not his job or what he is licensed to do.

There are way to many trainers out the that have no clue about nutrition and simply regurgitate the same nonsense someone else told them.

My new trainer isnt telling me what to eat, but is helping me guide myself away from my "comfort foods" (aka empty calories) and onto a cleaner diet that will support my training. I have been eating whole grains over processed grains for a while now but not sure whether a gluten free diet would be beneficial or if it's better to include whole grains occasionally and be mostly gluten free.

RodaRose

Let's be clear what you mean by grains. Corn and rice count as grains and they are Gluten Free.
Wheat (bread, pasta, pizza) counts as a Grain and count as Gluten.
What is your question?

katerams

Let's be clear what you mean by grains. Corn and rice count as grains and they are Gluten Free.
Wheat (bread, pasta, pizza) counts as a Grain and count as Gluten.
What is your question?

Mostly peoples experiences going grain free.
I didn't do so well on a grain free diet and am thinking of trying gluten free instead as I have hashimotos.

RodaRose

Let's be clear what you mean by grains. Corn and rice count as grains and they are Gluten Free.
Wheat (bread, pasta, pizza) counts as a Grain and count as Gluten.
What is your question?

Mostly peoples experiences going grain free.
I didn't do so well on a grain free diet and am thinking of trying gluten free instead as I have hashimotos.

O.K. If you want to go Gluten Free all you have to do is stop eating bread, pasta, pizza, and certain prepared foods.
You can plenty of rice, potatoes, corn, quinoa.
Try that for three or four weeks and see how you feel.

katerams

Let's be clear what you mean by grains. Corn and rice count as grains and they are Gluten Free.
Wheat (bread, pasta, pizza) counts as a Grain and count as Gluten.
What is your question?

Mostly peoples experiences going grain free.
I didn't do so well on a grain free diet and am thinking of trying gluten free instead as I have hashimotos.

O.K. If you want to go Gluten Free all you have to do is stop eating bread, pasta, pizza, and certain prepared foods.
You can plenty of rice, potatoes, corn, quinoa.
Try that for three or four weeks and see how you feel.

I understand HOW to do it, I just don't know if it's worth it haha.
Last time I went grain free/dairy free it wasn't good and I don't want that to happen again.

Madame_Goldbricker

Let's be clear what you mean by grains. Corn and rice count as grains and they are Gluten Free.
Wheat (bread, pasta, pizza) counts as a Grain and count as Gluten.
What is your question?

Mostly peoples experiences going grain free.
I didn't do so well on a grain free diet and am thinking of trying gluten free instead as I have hashimotos.

O.K. If you want to go Gluten Free all you have to do is stop eating bread, pasta, pizza, and certain prepared foods.
You can plenty of rice, potatoes, corn, quinoa.
Try that for three or four weeks and see how you feel.

I understand HOW to do it, I just don't know if it's worth it haha.
Last time I went grain free/dairy free it wasn't good and I don't want that to happen again.

It's not a question anyone else can answer for you! I'm GF as it inflames my IBS - do I feel better? Yes. Would you feel better? Who knows?

SkimFlatWhite68

Yep, grains and gluten are different.

Since giving up Gluten I have noticed many differences and I feel great.

I still eat around 50-150g carbs a day but they are mainly non-starchy vegetables, berries and for my starches I eat sweet potato, rice and also oats a few times a week (although there is argument that oats may not be gluten free I seem to do ok on them and don't get an upset stomach).

I've also pretty much cut out recreational sugar and this has made a huge difference. No more cravings, highs and lows, just good amounts of energy and a flatter stomach!

My advice would be to go gluten free for 4 weeks and see how you feel. Do a feedback loop on yourself

dbmata

I was on a meal plan by my old trainer, who insisted "paleo was the way". I had to eat specific meals at specific times. I probably was on a deficit as he believes everyone can live off a 1200cal diet.

He had you at an extremely low diet, then you increased physical output, ran out of energy and conked out. What did you expect?

We don't need grains. We can eat them. The reason they were important to use is that they are nutritionally dense, and helped up our nutrition available without having to spend even MORE time gathering.

A sensible vegetable diet where you approach it reasonably will have you feeling good, and possibly missing a cookie. It's up to you, and whatever you want or what your goals are.

dbmata

O.K. If you want to go Gluten Free all you have to do is stop eating bread, pasta, pizza, and certain prepared foods.
You can plenty of rice, potatoes, corn, quinoa.
Try that for three or four weeks and see how you feel.

So here's a question, what are the compounds in meat called that form elasticity and gelatinization when mixed? All of my reference books (from the food industry) call it gluten. (Relevant to making sausage, without the addition of grain based products)

PennyVonDread

O.K. If you want to go Gluten Free all you have to do is stop eating bread, pasta, pizza, and certain prepared foods.
You can plenty of rice, potatoes, corn, quinoa.
Try that for three or four weeks and see how you feel.

So here's a question, what are the compounds in meat called that form elasticity and gelatinization when mixed? All of my reference books (from the food industry) call it gluten. (Relevant to making sausage, without the addition of grain based products)

Collagen is a connective tissue in meat that breaks down into gelatin. The "gelatinization" IS gelatin, found in animals meat and bones, and the process happens around 160 degrees fahrenheit in meat. The longer you keep the meat here, like in slow cooking, the more it breaks down. There are other ways to add enzymes to dissolve collagen into gelatin, though.

dbmata

As i'm referring to the production of sausage, it has nothing to do with collagen, and collagen being within connective tissues that aren't kept in the sausage making process, I don't think it would be it.

Process I'm referring to:

Take a boneless pork shoulder. chill. grind. chill. season. mix in a mixer until gelatinization occurs while keeping a mix temperature sub 38F. In my reference texts, it's called gluten, and not collagen or gelatin which are called out specifically in other areas for other products.

This is a non heated process, that does not involve collagen containing tissues. So what is causing the binding process?

I've done a few web searches for gluten, but all I find is content related to wheat/grain gluten as opposed to gluten found within freshly ground whole muscle meat and activated due to high speed mixing at very low temps.

msjersey73

i'm doing paleo. my diary is open to public view.
i am losing weight steadily, not counting calories.
i am using MFP to count carbs, lol.
i need at least 100 grams carbs per day, no more than 200 grams.
i am slowly getting there. (i cheat and have brown rice sometimes, but no wheat)
i like the site: mark's daily apple.com
tons of awesome info.