Can't get smaller when weight training
Replies
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You're delusional. Nobody is packing on a ton of muscle if they claim to be on a deficit and think 2500 is a massive amount of food.
Initial swelling can and does put a lot of women off of lifting, but if they persevered and understood what it was, we wouldn't see half as many "lifting makes you bulky" type posts.
This is what I'm curious about - what is this 'initial swelling' you speak of?0 -
Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
You're delusional. Nobody is packing on a ton of muscle if they claim to be on a deficit and think 2500 is a massive amount of food.
Initial swelling can and does put a lot of women off of lifting, but if they persevered and understood what it was, we wouldn't see half as many "lifting makes you bulky" type posts.
This is what I'm curious about - what is this 'initial swelling' you speak of?0 -
Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
I'll look up more about this, but in your experience, does this happen every time you lift a heavier amount of weight? I'm on a structured training plan since we have a strength coach in the vball dept. Therefore, I'm lifting more and more every workout, which I assume tears the muscles each time? Or is initial swelling just when you very first start lifting? In which case, I'm not swelling since I've been lifting for wow about 8 years now - the first 4 in high school and not demanding, but the last 1.5 yrs have been heavy and from a legitimate strength coach.0 -
Strictly speaking from my experience, the first week back after any time off results in a much greater amount of swelling than the following weeks, but there is always some swelling following a training session.
Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
I'll look up more about this, but in your experience, does this happen every time you lift a heavier amount of weight? I'm on a structured training plan since we have a strength coach in the vball dept. Therefore, I'm lifting more and more every workout, which I assume tears the muscles each time? Or is initial swelling just when you very first start lifting? In which case, I'm not swelling since I've been lifting for wow about 8 years now - the first 4 in high school and not demanding, but the last 1.5 yrs have been heavy and from a legitimate strength coach.
I'll see if I can get someone more knowledgable than I to better answer your question. I've no experience of training others so I don't know what the norm would be.0 -
Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
I'll look up more about this, but in your experience, does this happen every time you lift a heavier amount of weight? I'm on a structured training plan since we have a strength coach in the vball dept. Therefore, I'm lifting more and more every workout, which I assume tears the muscles each time? Or is initial swelling just when you very first start lifting? In which case, I'm not swelling since I've been lifting for wow about 8 years now - the first 4 in high school and not demanding, but the last 1.5 yrs have been heavy and from a legitimate strength coach.
My personal experience and observation (treat it as such and not a statement of fact) is that you will tend to see an initial spike in fluid weight when you begin a resistance training program and you may see slight bumps if you make significant increases in training volume. If you are in a deficit this can play games with your head and cause the scale to do wonky things.
I also see this in trainees who take a long break from training and then jump right back in.0 -
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Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
I'll look up more about this, but in your experience, does this happen every time you lift a heavier amount of weight? I'm on a structured training plan since we have a strength coach in the vball dept. Therefore, I'm lifting more and more every workout, which I assume tears the muscles each time? Or is initial swelling just when you very first start lifting? In which case, I'm not swelling since I've been lifting for wow about 8 years now - the first 4 in high school and not demanding, but the last 1.5 yrs have been heavy and from a legitimate strength coach.
My personal experience and observation (treat it as such and not a statement of fact) is that you will tend to see an initial spike in fluid weight when you begin a resistance training program and you may see slight bumps if you make significant increases in training volume. If you are in a deficit this can play games with your head and cause the scale to do wonky things.
I also see this in trainees who take a long break from training and then jump right back in.
This has been my experience as well, though I'm not an expert like SideSteel
I'm not really anything but a lazy novice who has lifted in the past. I've just gotten back into a lifting routine after being a slacker for almost a year, and yes, I "gained" approximately 3 pounds after lifting for the first time and at least right now I still feel puffy and bulky (which is a little freaky if you don't know what's happening). It's a weight gain, but not really an increase in fat or muscle.
Regarding your desire to look into the initial swelling bit, think of it this way: any time you damage tissue, it swells. It swells because the distressed tissue releases chemicals called cytokines and these cytokines make the blood vessels that feed the tissue more leaky. If the blood vessels are leaky, the fluid and nutrients in your blood leak into your muscle tissue faster (normally it's a slow leak, now it's a bigger one thanks to the cytokines). The fluid brings all the good stuff that your body needs for repairs, (and when talking infection/damage it brings in white blood cells too).
Weight lifting is thought to cause micro-tears in your muscle as you create stress. This is the soreness that you feel after a new workout. The micro-tears are damage and the distressed muscle tissue releases the cytokines to bring in nutrients for repairs.
That's the science behind it in layman's terms :P Give or take a bit of exactness.0 -
A couple more quick things:
1) If you are not losing weight, then you are not eating at a calorie deficit even if you think you are. You are probably underestimating your calories consumed and overestimating your calories burned. It's a pain in the butt, I know, but if you aren't already doing it, you really need to carefully measure and weigh out your food. Don't estimate. People are generally lousy at estimations. Treat weight loss as a science with exact measurements, and you'll do better. (says the lazy person who estimates and doesn't measure. Bad me!)
2) If you are hungry, eat more protein. Lots of protein. Protein tends to be better at curbing hunger. Fat helps too... but protein is the king. It's the hunger that makes you binge, not the lack of calories, so it should be possible to eat fewer calories if you can conquer the hunger. Other tricks for "hungry": hot beverages/soups, and bulky, fibrous foods. I drink hot tea. Just watch the sugar. Oh... and chewing gum. Helps when I just want something in my mouth.0 -
LOLWUT.
I'm gonna sound really rough here. Enough with the "Well I put on muscle really easy" bs. You don't, I promise. You may be able to put it on quicker than others, but that doesn't mean you bulk up and become a bodybuilder or a man within a month of lifting. How can this idea still be around? You look bulky when you have fat on top of your muscles. You look "toned" or whatever they're calling it these days when you have muscles and are cut. Unless you're on the juice, as a female your muscles are not big enough to make you look bulky unless you have been training for years upon years upon years, and even then most women cannot achieve much bulk. I thought I was bulky before when I was 20 lbs heavier lifting. I realize now it was fat.
Sorry if that sounded really harsh, but it's the truth, lifting does not make you bulky. At all. Just like running doesn't make you skinny. At all. It's mostly about what you're eating.
I totally get that. Maybe I've worded it in the wrong way. My point is that lifting makes me insatiably hungry, whereas cardio such as spinning, running, etc. seems to suppress my appetite more. Thus, in an indirect way - for me at least - running makes me skinny and lifting makes me bulky/fat. Well to be fair to myself, I don't think anyone would refer to me as bulky or fat. I'm just very conscious of my weight. I went from 28% BF to 20% BF two summers ago by changing my eating habits and running a lot. I lost 4 lbs of muscle as well though
. I may be back up to 24-25 with some more LBM.
Have you had you BF% checked recently? I'd say quit obsessing about your scale weight and focus on BF% It sounds like you would really like to stop lifting and just do cardio, that you like the way your body looks with just cardio. But I'm sure a strength program is required for VB. Is the only real problem you "feel hungry" all the time? If so, I'd say just toughen up. If you ignore a growling stomach for a while it quits growling. If you have other issues like blood sugar gets to low, you pass out, you get dizzy, etc., then that is a different problem. Personally, I love weight training and wish I had started when I was your age. There is zero wrong with looking like a powerful, strong woman. If you need to reduce your BF% to allow the definition of those wonderful muscles to show, then you need to toughen up. Good luck you!0 -
So if you had 10lbs. of muscle in a bag and 10lbs. of fat in a bag, which would weigh more?
Pffft..Trick question! Not falling for that one.0 -
Is there anyone else who has issues with maintaining a caloric deficit while weight training?
I've found that if I focus on eating protein dense foods I'm more likely to stay under my calorie goal. I didn't look at your diary, but that's where I would start if I were you. Generally, you need 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean body mass. I aim for at least 100 grams of protein every day (which is still on the low side for my weight), more if I can swing it on lifting days. It's hard at first, but I'm learning how to incorporate more protein with eggs, nuts and greek yogurt. GL!0 -
I would try to focus on the restrict-binge cycle. I like Georgie's columns and you might find some of them helpful:
http://askgeorgie.com/i-diet-i-binge-i-diet-again/
When I finish a weight training session and feel like I am "starving" then I fill up on a huge plate of veggies (2 cups or more cooked) and 5-8 oz of lean protein, plus a small portion of carbs if desired (1/2 cup rice or sweet potato, 1 slice of bread, etc). Calorie for calorie, I find lean protein is more satiating than carbs. Rather than have something carb-heavy for "dessert" I have a protein shake, Greek yogurt with fruit, or some other high protein sweet.0 -
Have you had you BF% checked recently? I'd say quit obsessing about your scale weight and focus on BF% It sounds like you would really like to stop lifting and just do cardio, that you like the way your body looks with just cardio. But I'm sure a strength program is required for VB. Is the only real problem you "feel hungry" all the time? If so, I'd say just toughen up. If you ignore a growling stomach for a while it quits growling. If you have other issues like blood sugar gets to low, you pass out, you get dizzy, etc., then that is a different problem. Personally, I love weight training and wish I had started when I was your age. There is zero wrong with looking like a powerful, strong woman. If you need to reduce your BF% to allow the definition of those wonderful muscles to show, then you need to toughen up. Good luck you!
You hit the nail on the head with me liking how I look with just cardio, but I don't really have a choice. I'm just trying to distinguish between toughening up and upping my calories because I need to. I can only be tough so many times before giving in if it's something my body needs.
I haven't gotten BF checked very recently. Probably like 5 months ago? Another personal issue that maybe contributes to something...sorry if this is TMI....but I hardly ever have my period. I've had maybe 10 my whole life and I'm 21 years old. There may be other issues/hormones at play here..Still need to see a doc.0 -
I stopped lifting heavy because I get bigger and bigger very quickly and even though it's muscle it just makes me feel big, not cut.
Cardio does suppress my appetite more, like it does with you.
Now that I do long incline walks on the treadmill and more Nike Training Club app (free) workouts and especially the box jump workouts on there I have maintained and built on my muscle while losing the bloat around them and I finally look slim again.
Lots of women find success with lifting and losing weight. I'm 37 now and nobody thinks I'm 37. In great shape for a mom of two and lifting heavy just doesn't work for me anymore. Please don't get mad at me, all the lovely women who lift on MFP!! Just chiming in because I'm in the same boat as the poster.
Finally! Yes that is exactly how I feel...I think it may have to do with body type - my trainers have told me I put on muscle easily (which probably means fat too...) and so I look much bulkier when lifting heavy.
Still in denial? Seriously just do the math ..It's those 5000 calorie vines that are raising your average to over maintenance.
Not your body type...not the workout... you're eating over your maintenance which is why you are gaining.
Everyone I've known who's used that excuse about weight lifting causing them to get bigger it's because they end up eating more food.track your calories and stick with your goals. Trying to eat intuitively when you're pushing the weights went work because your body will naturally make you crave more food0 -
So if you had 10lbs. of muscle in a bag and 10lbs. of fat in a bag, which would weigh more?
Pffft..Trick question! Not falling for that one.
I have a question for that question.
Why are you carrying around fat and muscle in a bag? Are we Hannibal Lector?0 -
I agree that the restrict/binge cycle you're going through would be the first thing to address. You're 6' tall, 170 pounds and super active, right? I ran your numbers through Scooby's calculator (http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/), and with 5-6 hours per week of strenuous exercise, your TDEE is something like 2977 calories. If you're trying to live on 2000ish/day, no wonder you're triggering binges. Could you try aiming for a more reasonable deficit, like TDEE-10%, so you can be more consistent and stop triggering binges? FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if your binges are causing a bunch of water retention, which might account for you feeling bigger.0
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I agree that the restrict/binge cycle you're going through would be the first thing to address. You're 6' tall, 170 pounds and super active, right? I ran your numbers through Scooby's calculator (http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/), and with 5-6 hours per week of strenuous exercise, your TDEE is something like 2977 calories. If you're trying to live on 2000ish/day, no wonder you're triggering binges. Could you try aiming for a more reasonable deficit, like TDEE-10%, so you can be more consistent and stop triggering binges? FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if your binges are causing a bunch of water retention, which might account for you feeling bigger.
I wouldn't either....well I had a habit of eating all my calories at one time - after weights. Last week i was eating around 2200 in one sitting and then I would eat veggies and/or something light the rest of the day. So I think I was still under maintenance but barely. I've now started preplanning my meals so that I don't binge so bad at one time hopefully...0 -
1) It doesn't sound like you've been tracking your calories at all. There's no way to pinpoint problems unless you've done that. You say you binge on 5,000 calories in a day occasionally. That's nearly a pound of fat plus your TDEE. Unless you're starving yourself for the remaining six days, you're going to be over your calorie limits all week long.
2) WHAT are you eating? If you're lifting weights, odds are that your body is screaming for more protein to rebuild those muscles. You can eat and eat and eat, but unless you're giving your body the protein that it's asking for, then you are still going to feel hungry. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that those 5000 calorie days have pretty much zero relationship with eggs, lean meats and dairy while a whole lot to do with carbohydrates.
3) If you're losing weight strictly through cardio, then odds are that a significant portion of your weight loss is muscle mass. Less muscle mass = lower metabolism = lower calorie requirements. Which means after your weight loss, if you eat the exact same diet that you did before, you will now be gaining weight rather than maintaining it. The only way to add muscle mass is to do some form of resistance training. And that brings us back to protein, protein, protein.
tl;dr: eat more protein, fewer carbs, start actually tracking your calories0 -
So if you had 10lbs. of muscle in a bag and 10lbs. of fat in a bag, which would weigh more?
Pffft..Trick question! Not falling for that one.
I have a question for that question.
Why are you carrying around fat and muscle in a bag? Are we Hannibal Lector?
:blushing:0 -
You're not actually logging your food - two days in the past month. :noway:
You are eating more than you think. Start logging, stop with the I put muscle on easily excuses, simple.0 -
To clarify - your strength training routine is sports specific?0
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I lose 40 lbs while doing crossfit (weight training etc)... FOr me it was removing some things from my diet for a while. I went to modified PALEO diet. And cut out some things. And lost about 30 lbs that way. I only started counting calories during the last 3 or 4 months which has helped me lose another 13... 50 from my heaviest.
You need to fuel your body for the workouts but also eat enough so you dont want to binge. What is your daily calorie count right now.. and you might want to make your diary public so people could perhaps have some ideas on what you are fueling with.0 -
Glycogen and water being driven into the muscles for energy and repair.
I'll look up more about this, but in your experience, does this happen every time you lift a heavier amount of weight? I'm on a structured training plan since we have a strength coach in the vball dept. Therefore, I'm lifting more and more every workout, which I assume tears the muscles each time? Or is initial swelling just when you very first start lifting? In which case, I'm not swelling since I've been lifting for wow about 8 years now - the first 4 in high school and not demanding, but the last 1.5 yrs have been heavy and from a legitimate strength coach.
Any time you've done damage to the muscles (i.e., through resistance training), your body will respond by storing glycogen and water to those mucles while they are being repaired. As soon as that damage has been repaired, the water will flush itself back out. If you're doing a steady workout regimen without progressive overloads, this is going to have minimal overall effect. However, if you're constantly pushing yourself to the limits and tearing down significant amounts of muscle tissue with each workout, you could see up to 2-3% body weight gain as a result.0 -
I stopped lifting heavy because I get bigger and bigger very quickly and even though it's muscle it just makes me feel big, not cut.
Cardio does suppress my appetite more, like it does with you.
Now that I do long incline walks on the treadmill and more Nike Training Club app (free) workouts and especially the box jump workouts on there I have maintained and built on my muscle while losing the bloat around them and I finally look slim again.
Lots of women find success with lifting and losing weight. I'm 37 now and nobody thinks I'm 37. In great shape for a mom of two and lifting heavy just doesn't work for me anymore. Please don't get mad at me, all the lovely women who lift on MFP!! Just chiming in because I'm in the same boat as the poster.
Let me add in here, that if I ate more than 2500 calories on a rare binge day I would be ill. You HAVE to be exaggerating with 5000???
At 5'5, 141 I average about 1800/day most of the time.
My TDEE is 2500, so 5000 is quite easy, thanks.
OP, you may want to try switching up your macros and adding more protein. You need it while in a calorie deficit to preserve LBM, and it will actually help you to feel more satiated.0 -
I lose 40 lbs while doing crossfit (weight training etc)... FOr me it was removing some things from my diet for a while. I went to modified PALEO diet. And cut out some things. And lost about 30 lbs that way. I only started counting calories during the last 3 or 4 months which has helped me lose another 13... 50 from my heaviest.
You need to fuel your body for the workouts but also eat enough so you dont want to binge. What is your daily calorie count right now.. and you might want to make your diary public so people could perhaps have some ideas on what you are fueling with.
He diary IS public - it is also EMPTY bar two days.
She has no idea how much she is eating.0 -
To clarify - your strength training routine is sports specific?
Yes it is sports specific.
Dead lift, squats, single arm dumbell press, farmer's walk, pull ups, glute ham raise, step ups, pallof press, push ups, box jumps, hang cleans, etc.0 -
To clarify - your strength training routine is sports specific?
Yes it is sports specific.
Dead lift, squats, single arm dumbell press, farmer's walk, pull ups, glute ham raise, step ups, pallof press, push ups, box jumps, hang cleans, etc.
And do you log your food somewhere else?0 -
He diary IS public - it is also EMPTY bar two days.
She has no idea how much she is eating.
Yeah I've been slacking on MFP, but I do calculate my calories every day. I just didn't log them on MFP. I wish I would have to make this more useful.. My avg last week was prob around 2400
My primary sources of calories are:
egg whites
eggs
PB, almond butter, pb2 now
40 cal toast
asian medley veg
brown rice
multigrain waffles (love)
SF syrup
SF jello
FF hot chocolate
Carbmaster yogurt
chia/flax seed
oatmeal
turkey breast
cheese slices (35 cal kind)
special k strawberry/chocolatey, smart start, go lean vanilla graham, rice chex
almond milk
almonds, pistachios
apples
la tortilla locarb wraps
That's pretty much where all my calories come from0 -
He diary IS public - it is also EMPTY bar two days.
She has no idea how much she is eating.
Yeah I've been slacking on MFP, but I do calculate my calories every day. I just didn't log them on MFP. I wish I would have to make this more useful.. My avg last week was prob around 2400
Honestly if you aren't properly logging then you are simply eating too much.
Start logging and try to talk to someone about the binges - one binge can undo all the good work you have put in for the week.0 -
It's amazing how many times someone comes seeking advice. Makes a crap ton of excuses. Then agrees with one of the most ridiculous responses they get. Absurd.I stopped lifting heavy because I get bigger and bigger very quickly and even though it's muscle it just makes me feel big, not cut.
Cardio does suppress my appetite more, like it does with you.
Now that I do long incline walks on the treadmill and more Nike Training Club app (free) workouts and especially the box jump workouts on there I have maintained and built on my muscle while losing the bloat around them and I finally look slim again.
Lots of women find success with lifting and losing weight. I'm 37 now and nobody thinks I'm 37. In great shape for a mom of two and lifting heavy just doesn't work for me anymore. Please don't get mad at me, all the lovely women who lift on MFP!! Just chiming in because I'm in the same boat as the poster.
Finally! Yes that is exactly how I feel...I think it may have to do with body type - my trainers have told me I put on muscle easily (which probably means fat too...) and so I look much bulkier when lifting heavy.
Neither one of you are putting on muscle very very fast. That's just being delusional.
It's natural: it's the one response that tells OP what they already believe to be true and what they really want to hear. The other responses would require OP to actually change something (diet, workout habits, etc.). The truth is that change is difficult while stasis (inertia) is easy. So that, despite any other trite sayings you might have heard, is usually the road most travelled.0
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