What's the matter with Crossfit?

dbmata

http://fittish.deadspin.com/whats-the-matter-with-crossfit-1606127917

FTA -

Of the 11 subjects who dropped out of the training program, two cited time concerns with the remaining nine subjects (16% of total recruited subjects) citing overuse or injury for failing to complete the program and finish follow up testing.

This was felt to be notable. 16% is a very high rate. The tip of the iceberg maybe? Or just it is what it is and the Crossfit response is far more interesting?

nlcs_nickyv32

I would have nothing against crossfit if there was a type of screening before accepting any new clients. There are several problems like these crossfit "coaches" going to some seminar for a weekend and getting certified with out any real type of testing. Then they open up their own box and take no effort in coaching people to lift proper form.

The fact you are having someone new or inexperienced or maybe not even strong enough. Preforming olympic lifts and heavy lifts with no or minimal training. Kipping pull-ups.

Crossfit has some how put it into people's minds that you need to be hurting for it to be a good workout. Which is wrong, and several of those people are suffering actual injuries and think it is okay because "I'm hurting so it must have been a good workout." There is something like a 73% injury rate in crossfit.
http://www.stack.com/2014/01/16/crossfits-injury-rates/

Don't get me wrong Crossfit can be a good workout but I would only recommend it to people who are strong enough and have had enough training before hand. My personal test to see if someone is ready for crossfit is to Bench press their own weight, Squat 1.5x their own weight, and deadlift 2x their own weight.

Sam_I_Am77

Objectively... CrossFit is mainstream right now because it's new and very much in the public eye, so injuries and what-not get even more attention. How many people get hurt every day in the gym with a random injury or even those that are poorly trained from an unintelligent trainer? How many trainers put their clients on poor diets that **** their metabolism? Many.

In doing research for school I've accidentally run across research indicating higher than average CF related injuries (one study reported ~52%), so there is a case to be made there. But again, how many injuries go unreported by your casual lifter? How about powerlifting, those injuries never make it to the headlines unless you specifically follow the sport. Anybody hear of Brandon Lily's injury early this year? It was brutal.

I respect CF (except for the Kip-ups) though it's not really my training preference. It gets people active and motivated to better their selves, improve their health.

My personal test to see if someone is ready for crossfit is to Bench press their own weight, Squat 1.5x their own weight, and deadlift 2x their own weight.

That's fairly ridiculous and there's no reason a fresh person can't join a CF gym. How many trained women can bench press their bodyweight? It's a small % of CASUAL lifters looking to improve their health. Hell, most men will NEVER see a 2x bodyweight deadlift either, so that's pretty ridiculous. How many men do you see in the gym actually squat to depth with their bodyweight? A good CF gym will have a break-in period to build a base of strength and teach proper form. Teaching somebody to do a Clean or Snatch isn't rocket-science. Often instruction is approached a PVC pipe or something like that just to get the form down.

Again, CF is not how I like to train (not by a longshot); I don't even consider CF training. But there's no reason to hate on CF. There's enough information on the web for people to get educated enough on CF before they even sign a contract.

jimmmer

I've got no beef with cf, but this:

In the lawsuit, all of CrossFit's neuroses emerge, as does its inner *kitten*. It's what you might call a full-body workout.

is comedy gold.

cwolfman13

What's the matter with Crossfit?

It doesn't really train you for anything other than the sport of crossfit. that's my primary beef



It's also a bit over the top "religious"...at least the couple boxes I tried were.

richardheath

If you are doing a scientific study (be it on diet, exercise or a new drug) and people drop out, it is customary to try and explain why those people dropped out. For a drug, for example, the side effects might be so bad that people stop taking it, or a diet might be so unpalatable that people cannot stick to it. It isn't always possible though, as they don't always actually give reasons: they might simply stop attending the sessions.

It looks as if the authors did try to at least find out, by asking the gym owner, why those 9 dropped out:

But in an e-mail before the lawsuit, Smith [one of the scientists] said he collected the injury information from Potterf [the gym owner]. When people didn’t return for the second test, Smith asked Potterf what happened. “(T)he gym owner went on to tell me how one participant was a wimp, one of them couldn’t stick with the program because of their knee, one because of their back, one was too fat, etc. … All of the explanations he gave to me matched up with overuse/overtraining issues, so that is the wording we used in the manuscript,” Smith wrote.

But yeah, this suing people for publishing a study that was actually supportive of Crossfit smacks me of Scientology.

DYELB

Xfit netted me this



and this



in a google image search. What's not to love?

shor0814

I would have nothing against crossfit if there was a type of screening before accepting any new clients. There are several problems like these crossfit "coaches" going to some seminar for a weekend and getting certified with out any real type of testing. Then they open up their own box and take no effort in coaching people to lift proper form.

The fact you are having someone new or inexperienced or maybe not even strong enough. Preforming olympic lifts and heavy lifts with no or minimal training. Kipping pull-ups.

Crossfit has some how put it into people's minds that you need to be hurting for it to be a good workout. Which is wrong, and several of those people are suffering actual injuries and think it is okay because "I'm hurting so it must have been a good workout." There is something like a 73% injury rate in crossfit.
http://www.stack.com/2014/01/16/crossfits-injury-rates/

Don't get me wrong Crossfit can be a good workout but I would only recommend it to people who are strong enough and have had enough training before hand. My personal test to see if someone is ready for crossfit is to Bench press their own weight, Squat 1.5x their own weight, and deadlift 2x their own weight.

I like the idea behind Crossfit but agree with most of the above. I don't think a specific lifting capability is needed as long as they can lift the weight with good form.

I know there are great coaches who care about form but it is hard to believe that the majority are good when official Crossfit videos show terrible lifting form even in their certification class videos. It is even worse watching the garage lifting video with Dave Castro's famous deadlift where he hitches it for 25 seconds before dropping it.

It is also hard to take safety and form serious with Uncle Rhabdo and Pukey the Clown.

Crossfit the idea is great, execution, not so much. I won't do Crossfit for those reasons just as I won't do squatsb or olympic lifts after exhaustion. Others can do what they please.

shmerek

Do we really have to have another crossfit thread? This subject has been done to death. I don't really get the whole "it is exercise without purpose" argument. Who cares if it doesn't prepare you for a sport? It is cardio and is a great cardio workout. You don't see people making the same argument to those doing zumba or running on a treadmill or using the elliptical machines or whatever.

AgentOrangeJuice

there's a video of some Crossfit Zealout supposedly doing 127 pull ups in a minute. his chin never goes above the bar. it's a ridiculous thing to watch.

shmerek

there's a video of some Crossfit Zealout supposedly doing 127 pull ups in a minute. his chin never goes above the bar. it's a ridiculous thing to watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun

shmerek

I know there are great coaches who care about form but it is hard to believe that the majority are good when official Crossfit videos show terrible lifting form even in their certification class videos. It is even worse watching the garage lifting video with Dave Castro's famous deadlift where he hitches it for 25 seconds before dropping it.

Painful to watch on so many levels

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20s29v_crossfit-how-not-to-lift-weights-2_fun

and for the record I do crossfit type workouts but this **** is just horrible

As per the rate of injury runners don't fair much better http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3578639

likitisplit

there's a video of some Crossfit Zealout supposedly doing 127 pull ups in a minute. his chin never goes above the bar. it's a ridiculous thing to watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun

Wow. The vo was unnecessarily catty, but WTF was that?

shmerek

there's a video of some Crossfit Zealout supposedly doing 127 pull ups in a minute. his chin never goes above the bar. it's a ridiculous thing to watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun

Wow. The vo was unnecessarily catty, but WTF was that?

That is his shtick

likitisplit

there's a video of some Crossfit Zealout supposedly doing 127 pull ups in a minute. his chin never goes above the bar. it's a ridiculous thing to watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20ksfx_how-dumbasses-do-pullups_fun

Wow. The vo was unnecessarily catty, but WTF was that?

That is his shtick

I got that with the second video. It's ok when he's talking about the lifts, but when people talk about what another person looks like, it's just...ugh.

shmerek

I got that with the second video. It's ok when he's talking about the lifts, but when people talk about what another person looks like, it's just...ugh.

Yup, I couldn't find the original video otherwise I would have just posted it. As a white person I have to say I cracked up at his "white people" music joke

BlueBombers

Never tried it so I couldn't tell you.

jmt08c

Comparing crossfit injuries to regular weight room or exercise injuries is like comparing apples to oranges. Crossfit "boxes" have trainers that you pay for and should provide proper instruction and workouts. If you are lifting on your own and hurt yourself then you're a dumb*** for not asking for help and trying on your own. But paying $100+ a month I would expect elite level training whether it be for a sport or not. You pay FOR training at a box...you pay to use the equipment at a regular gym.

SnicciFit

Objectively... CrossFit is mainstream right now because it's new and very much in the public eye, so injuries and what-not get even more attention. How many people get hurt every day in the gym with a random injury or even those that are poorly trained from an unintelligent trainer? How many trainers put their clients on poor diets that **** their metabolism? Many.

In doing research for school I've accidentally run across research indicating higher than average CF related injuries (one study reported ~52%), so there is a case to be made there. But again, how many injuries go unreported by your casual lifter? How about powerlifting, those injuries never make it to the headlines unless you specifically follow the sport. Anybody hear of Brandon Lily's injury early this year? It was brutal.

I respect CF (except for the Kip-ups) though it's not really my training preference. It gets people active and motivated to better their selves, improve their health.

My personal test to see if someone is ready for crossfit is to Bench press their own weight, Squat 1.5x their own weight, and deadlift 2x their own weight.

That's fairly ridiculous and there's no reason a fresh person can't join a CF gym. How many trained women can bench press their bodyweight? It's a small % of CASUAL lifters looking to improve their health. Hell, most men will NEVER see a 2x bodyweight deadlift either, so that's pretty ridiculous. How many men do you see in the gym actually squat to depth with their bodyweight? A good CF gym will have a break-in period to build a base of strength and teach proper form. Teaching somebody to do a Clean or Snatch isn't rocket-science. Often instruction is approached a PVC pipe or something like that just to get the form down.

Again, CF is not how I like to train (not by a longshot); I don't even consider CF training. But there's no reason to hate on CF. There's enough information on the web for people to get educated enough on CF before they even sign a contract.

I agree that that's ridiculous. When I did CF, I had never touched a barbell in my life, so I started with a piece of PVC and moved up to a 15lb empty bar, then a 22lb empty bar, then a 33... then 45... you get the picture.

meshashesha2012

i think it depends on the box. the box i went to would never have counted any of of that guys pullups as a pullup, and i dont think any of those would have been counted during the games..

shmerek

Comparing crossfit injuries to regular weight room or exercise injuries is like comparing apples to oranges. Crossfit "boxes" have trainers that you pay for and should provide proper instruction and workouts. If you are lifting on your own and hurt yourself then you're a dumb*** for not asking for help and trying on your own. But paying $100+ a month I would expect elite level training whether it be for a sport or not. You pay FOR training at a box...you pay to use the equipment at a regular gym.

Dude even regular lifting gyms where I live are around 30 dollars a week. Plus you aren't paying for 1 on 1 instruction you are part of a class. The people that generally hurt themselves in crossfit are dumbasses for not thinking about form or lifting too heavy just like the dumbasses in the weight room. It is the same ****.

From the study

"Injury rates with CrossFit training are similar to that reported in the literature for sports such as Olympic weight-lifting, power-lifting and gymnastics and lower than competitive contact sports such as rugby union and rugby league."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276294

It isn't all that different.



http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/bodywork/the-fit-list/High-Intensity-Litigation.html

TAsunder

Comparing crossfit injuries to regular weight room or exercise injuries is like comparing apples to oranges. Crossfit "boxes" have trainers that you pay for and should provide proper instruction and workouts. If you are lifting on your own and hurt yourself then you're a dumb*** for not asking for help and trying on your own. But paying $100+ a month I would expect elite level training whether it be for a sport or not. You pay FOR training at a box...you pay to use the equipment at a regular gym.

But the reality is that the crossfit franchise system does not come anywhere near assuring that you will get a good trainer or good gym. The quality varies incredibly wildly. I know there's an outstanding local one, but I've looked at the supposed credentials listed for the trainers at other local ones, and it's absurd. I think one guy listed having done tough mudder as a qualification. What does that have to do with your ability to teach?! The local gym that is outstanding has people who were coaches of a big ten athletic team for years, and who themselves were serious competitors to boot. The fact that they are both allowed to exist under the CrossFit label is a total joke.

dbmata

Idiot golden child. LOL.

likitisplit

I know there are great coaches who care about form but it is hard to believe that the majority are good when official Crossfit videos show terrible lifting form even in their certification class videos. It is even worse watching the garage lifting video with Dave Castro's famous deadlift where he hitches it for 25 seconds before dropping it.

Painful to watch on so many levels

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20s29v_crossfit-how-not-to-lift-weights-2_fun

and for the record I do crossfit type workouts but this **** is just horrible

As per the rate of injury runners don't fair much better http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3578639

"injury" in running is defined as missing three consecutive workouts due to mobility limitations or pain. It's not "debilitating injuries that cause you to quit."

shmerek

I know there are great coaches who care about form but it is hard to believe that the majority are good when official Crossfit videos show terrible lifting form even in their certification class videos. It is even worse watching the garage lifting video with Dave Castro's famous deadlift where he hitches it for 25 seconds before dropping it.

Painful to watch on so many levels

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20s29v_crossfit-how-not-to-lift-weights-2_fun

and for the record I do crossfit type workouts but this **** is just horrible

As per the rate of injury runners don't fair much better http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3578639

"injury" in running is defined as missing three consecutive workouts due to mobility limitations or pain. It's not "debilitating injuries that cause you to quit."

There is nothing in the study that I posted that says the injuries were debilitating. As for the other they are actually being sued.
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/bodywork/the-fit-list/High-Intensity-Litigation.html

Also from this study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399

" From the epidemiological studies it can be concluded that running injuries lead to a reduction of training or training cessation in about 30 to 90% of all injuries, about 20 to 70% of all injuries lead to medical consultation or medical treatment and 0 to 5% result in absence from work."

My point isn't to bash on running just saying that injuries occur in all physical activities. Crossfit is nothing special.

mayfrayy

some people find crossfit fun, i don't really care either way.
the only issue i have with real crossfit (people who are in shape, and know form) is kipping pullup bragging.

crossfit is full of people that shouldn't be there.

shmerek

some people find crossfit fun, i don't really care either way.
the only issue i have with real crossfit (people who are in shape, and know form) is kipping pullup bragging.

crossfit is full of people that shouldn't be there.

I agree kipping is retarded. Why would anyone do something that makes and exercise easier? The whole point as far as I see it is to challenge yourself otherwise what is the point? Same with half reppers at the gym who load the bar do a quarter rep and then brag they bench 315.

mayfrayy

some people find crossfit fun, i don't really care either way.
the only issue i have with real crossfit (people who are in shape, and know form) is kipping pullup bragging.

crossfit is full of people that shouldn't be there.

I agree kipping is retarded. Why would anyone do something that makes and exercise easier? The whole point as far as I see it is to challenge yourself otherwise what is the point? Same with half reppers at the gym who load the bar do a quarter rep and then brag they bench 315.

yeah, kipping wont make you any stronger.

Sam_I_Am77

Comparing crossfit injuries to regular weight room or exercise injuries is like comparing apples to oranges. Crossfit "boxes" have trainers that you pay for and should provide proper instruction and workouts. If you are lifting on your own and hurt yourself then you're a dumb*** for not asking for help and trying on your own. But paying $100+ a month I would expect elite level training whether it be for a sport or not. You pay FOR training at a box...you pay to use the equipment at a regular gym.

We only hear about injuries at CF gyms because the media is paying attention to it. How many injuries happen at Juggernaut, Westside, <insert powerlifting gym name> all the time?? It's not mainstream and your average American doesn't give a **** about PL'ing, so the media doesn't care enough to report on it. Are their bad CF coaches? Yup. Are their bad NASM, ACE, NASC trainers? Yup.

It's kind of funny to me that CF gets picked on when their are races in-which people get electrocuted and have to jump through fire and ****. That's okay but CF is dangerous?? LOL

jimmmer

Physical activity can be dangerous.

Jesus, crossing the road to buy some milk can kill you.

I think people should pursue the physical activities they like and if they get hurt, that's just too bad. It's part of the risk you take.

I've got a laundry list of injuries from Kung Fu. I don't hear people saying that the high injury rates from MA means they should be banned or that people shouldn't do them.

Sam_I_Am77

Physical activity can be dangerous.

Jesus, crossing the road to buy some milk can kill you.

I think people should pursue the physical activities they like and if they get hurt, that's just too bad. It's part of the risk you take.

I've got a laundry list of injuries from Kung Fu. I don't hear people saying that the high injury rates from MA means they should be banned or that people shouldn't do them.

Exactly. Car accidents are one of the leading causes of death in America but how many of us still get in a car every day?