1200 calories minimum, nets, deficits and such... I'm really

cjduckie

I initially posted this as a reply to another thread - but it got me thinking and I'm actually really confused so I'm reposting it here as a new thread. What I've been doing has been working, so it's going to take a bit of convincing to get me to change my plan, but please - have a read and get back to me. Ta* ---->

I really wonder about this minimum of 1200 calories and the whole deficit thing. I started my journey in August - at the time, I was eating an average of about 1500calories per day & working out for about 2hrs four times a week... In two months of eating and working out this way, I lost only 2lbs ( MOST frustrating!!

Then...at the end of September I hired a personal trainer and I have lost 21lbs in the past 2 months - the first thing my trainer did was to cut my calorie intake to 780/day on a 40% carbs 40% protein 20% fats ratio. In fact, that was why I joined MFP - it was the first calorie counter app that came up in my search on my iPhone. My trainer also put me on 45min cardio 4-5 times per week and two 60min circuit sessions with him per week. I didn't find it at all difficult to adjust my eating plan to the 780 calories per day AND I haven't ever been hungry - it's all been about eating clean & portion control.

I have consistently lost 2-3lbs/week... which is apparently not unhealthy or losing too fast. I have a negative deficit more often than not and find that I tend to lose more when I keep my deficit negative. I've got plenty of energy, haven't had trouble concentrating at work, and haven't noticed any other negative effects. I hit a small plateau 2 weeks ago, but it only lasted for a week, and then I started losing again - albeit slower. We then shook things up a little in my diet - still the same ratio as before, and still 780 calories, but I tried the dinner for breakfast, breakfast for lunch, lunch for dinner thing and lo and behold: -4lbs at weigh in today...plateau broken!

Is this just a case of each person being different? And different things working for different people??? Or am I in for a surprise when I finally reach my goal weight and cut back on the heavy workouts and strict eating plan? <----

heathersmilez

Read this link, it will answer your questions, it’s a posting by Banks (apparently hailed as god-like here on MFP) guess a little math and common sense get you great praises

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/61706-guide-to-calorie-deficits

erickirb

Most likely you are losing muscle mass on such a caloric deficit, which will cause your metabolism to slow down. You may also want to know that PT's are not nutritionists and should not be giving dietary advice.

Please be careful and do see a nutritionist, you could be doing serious damage to your body. if you only eat 780 and exercise to burn say 300 calories it is as if you only ate 480 calories (780-300), which is not enough for a medium sized dog let alone a human, other than a baby.

RaeN81

The real question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want to live this way forever?" If the answer is no, then take some time to seriously rethink and rework your plan. When you finish losing the weight, it will be time for maintenance!

binary_jester

My 1st question was, does your trainer weigh you or use calipers to check your progress?

ladybugss

want to read later

alantin

Hi!
I replied to that other thread but I'll copy it here too!


@cjduckie

I would think that you are quite short or just happen to have a remarkably slow metabolism. Your rate of weight loss would support this. if your maintenance calories are about 1600 Kcal a day, 780 would make a deficit of about 820 Kcal a day, which is probably okay if you are in the "overweight" category but I would still recommend eating closer to 1000-1100 range in this case.

1200 Kcal is just an arbitrary number that for some reason is set as a low limit in MFP. It is a good thing though because for most of us, going lower than that means starving ourselves in short order. really short women can sometimes go lower than this though.

A healthy deficit means eating about 500 Kcal less than you burn. This would translate to about 1 pound lost in a week. Heavier people can support larger deficits and on the other had, the closer you get to your ideal weight, the smaller the deficit, that you can healthily support, gets. I suppose, that healthy for me at the moment would mean about 300 and that's where I'm trying to aim.

If you are much taller than 5', I would suggest some kind of medical inspection to find out your true BMR and make sure that everything is in order.. Eating too little can lower the BMR (and increase the efficiency at which fat is stored too) as the body goes into famine mode.

cjduckie

The real question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want to live this way forever?" If the answer is no, then take some time to seriously rethink and rework your plan. When you finish losing the weight, it will be time for maintenance!

Well that's the thing you see - I haven't ever been hungry, and I'm pretty much eating what I want (I just choose wisely & eat in moderation, also I've cut the junk food & partying a.k.a. alcohol and late night binge-eating). Also, I'm enjoying the workouts...I feel great! So yeh, if that's the question then my answer is: Yes, why not. Obviously once I've reached my goal weight there will be space for more "treats", but if I keep working out to a reasonable degree that should keep a handle on it...

cjduckie

My 1st question was, does your trainer weigh you or use calipers to check your progress?

We weigh weekly, and measure monthly, no calipers. I've lost between 6 and 15cm all over my body & have also lost 4% body fat (measured with one of them electronic thingamajigs).

erickirb

The real question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want to live this way forever?" If the answer is no, then take some time to seriously rethink and rework your plan. When you finish losing the weight, it will be time for maintenance!

Well that's the thing you see - I haven't ever been hungry, and I'm pretty much eating what I want (I just choose wisely & eat in moderation, also I've cut the junk food & partying a.k.a. alcohol and late night binge-eating). Also, I'm enjoying the workouts...I feel great! So yeh, if that's the question then my answer is: Yes, why not. Obviously once I've reached my goal weight there will be space for more "treats", but if I keep working out to a reasonable degree that should keep a handle on it...

FYI Hunger is not a good indication of nutrition, you can train your body do get used to less food without feeling hungry but that does not mean you need less food, nutritionally speaking.

The level of caloric intake you are ate would be borderline anorexic, I have no idea how you can get all the nutrients the body requires on such a restricted diet (vitamins, minerals, protein etc.)

cjduckie

Hi!
I replied to that other thread but I'll copy it here too!


@cjduckie

I would think that you are quite short or just happen to have a remarkably slow metabolism. Your rate of weight loss would support this. if your maintenance calories are about 1600 Kcal a day, 780 would make a deficit of about 820 Kcal a day, which is probably okay if you are in the "overweight" category but I would still recommend eating closer to 1000-1100 range in this case.

1200 Kcal is just an arbitrary number that for some reason is set as a low limit in MFP. It is a good thing though because for most of us, going lower than that means starving ourselves in short order. really short women can sometimes go lower than this though.

A healthy deficit means eating about 500 Kcal less than you burn. This would translate to about 1 pound lost in a week. Heavier people can support larger deficits and on the other had, the closer you get to your ideal weight, the smaller the deficit, that you can healthily support, gets. I suppose, that healthy for me at the moment would mean about 300 and that's where I'm trying to aim.

If you are much taller than 5', I would suggest some kind of medical inspection to find out your true BMR and make sure that everything is in order.. Eating too little can lower the BMR (and increase the efficiency at which fat is stored too) as the body goes into famine mode.

Ahahaha - yes, by family's standards I am often referred to as short, however I'm 5'6" so not really THAT short! Thanks though, your post is quite informative!

I'm actually still in the "obese" range - my BMI was 34odd when I started, and I now have another 4lbs to go to be in the "overweight" range... I don't put too much stock in the BMI thing though, since I have a rather large bone structure e.g. according to the BMI calculation, my "healthy" weight range top out at 160lbs - however, when I was at my absolute skinniest & very fit and healthy I weighed 170lbs - so that's my goal weight for now. Hmmmm..... I dunno, maybe I should see a doctor - seems an odd thing to do though, since I feel great =/

LareishaH

Well I am no expert, but I can talk about my personal experience. I have been eating fast food just about everyday for the past week and a half but prior to that I was consistently below my 1200 calorie goal. Like you I have a personal trainer and I work out at least six days a week burning 500+ calories per day (I only count calories burned during cardio exercises). I am not convinced about the starvation mode discussed by many. I have consulted a nutritionist. She has reviewed my diary over a few weeks and she says that everything is okay as long as I continue to take my vitamin everyday. I read someone's comment that you were probably losing muscle mass, but I can guarantee you that I am definitely not losing muscle. Since I do weight training five days a week, I am definitely building more muscle. I don’t think there is anything unhealthy about the way I have been losing weight, and since my hiatus from healthy eating, I haven’t gained a pound, I haven’t lost any either, but I haven’t gained. I am not telling you what to do, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. Good Luck!!!

TateFTW

There are a number of things to take into account in this case. You went from 1500 calories to 780 calories/day. You increased your deficit by 720 calories. Has your metabolism dowshifted? Hell yes. That's obvious when you look at the fact that you aren't that hungry. The other day I went to lunch with my wife, and she couldn't finish her salad. That was how I found out that she hadn't eaten breakfast. That's how much your intake affects your metabolism.

There are a number of reasons of we generally don't suggest such a low caloric intake;

The resulting downshift in metabolic rates means that any splurges or cheat meals get stored moreso then if you had normal metabolic rates. If you stay extremely strict with your diet, then this won't be an issue, BUT;

The more you increase your deficit, the more muscle you will lose instead of just fat, and the less positive affect you will receive from resistance training. Endurance training, such as running or biking, always makes you lose muscle mass. The muscle catabolizes itself because the body can't mobilize the energy stored in fat fast enough. Whenever you exercise, you essentially start by using dietary energy (mostly glycogen from dietary carbohydrates), then when that is gone your body shifts to stored fat, then eventually moves to its own muscle for energy. This is how people starve to death, as eventually the body "eats" its own organs for energy, and body systems start shutting down. But it is a misconception that the body will only use one form of energy at a time, and use it completely before moving on to the next. Your body won't use all of its glycogen stores before using fat, and won't use all of its fat before moving on to muscle.

Whenever you lose weight, you're almost certainly losing lean mass (muscle) as well. But as you lose more in a given amount of time, the ratio of fat to lean mass lost shifts away from fat and towards lean mass. This is why when bodybuilders look to cut fat they usually aim for around 1 lb lost per week. This is so they can lose fat while minimizing loss of muscle mass.

You trainer probably wants dramatic results. That's how trainers get word of mouth recomendations and stay in business. But the truth is this; If you feel good and are happy with the changes you see in the mirror, then your not going to keal over all of a sudden and die. If your not tracking your bodyfat now, start. Then you'll know how your doing as far as losing bodyfat versus lean mass. If you hit another wall, maybe try increasing your intake, but as you reach your weight loss goals, start fading into a more managable long term diet. Understand that you will (and SHOULD) start to feel hungrier again. This is evidence that your metabolism is shifting up again, to a more helathy level. Once your weightloss stops, stick with that level of intake for a while and see how it works for you.

erickirb

Well I am no expert, but I can talk about my personal experience. I have been eating fast food just about everyday for the past week and a half but prior to that I was consistently below my 1200 calorie goal. Like you I have a personal trainer and I work out at least six days a week burning 500+ calories per day (I only count calories burned during cardio exercises). I am not convinced about the starvation mode discussed by many. I have consulted a nutritionist. She has reviewed my diary over a few weeks and she says that everything is okay as long as I continue to take my vitamin everyday. I read someone's comment that you were probably losing muscle mass, but I can guarantee you that I am definitely not losing muscle. Since I do weight training five days a week, I am definitely building more muscle. I don’t think there is anything unhealthy about the way I have been losing weight, and since my hiatus from healthy eating, I haven’t gained a pound, I haven’t lost any either, but I haven’t gained. I am not telling you what to do, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. Good Luck!!!

You ca still lose muscle with weight training, It is easier for your body to burn muscle for energy and as it will save the fat as long as it can if it thinks it is starving. If you don't get enough calories no matter how much weight lifting you do you will lose weight. Even body builders lose muscle when dieting for competition, they actually lose more muscle than fat and they lift a lot of weights.

It a nutritionist is fine with you eating fast food she should be fired, I would check her credentials and get a second opinion

cjduckie

@LarieshaH - thanks for that, good to know I'm not the only one on this sort of plan. I too don't feel that I've lost muscle, I'm certainly getting more toned - if that's anything to go by, and according to the body fat machine thingy I've lost 4% - I guess that's got to count for something. As far as getting my required nutrients, I'm on a daily multivit, and I find the 40-40-20 ratio (when I choose well) pretty much covers all bases, in a healthier way, than I was eating previously. I dunno... I guess we'll see what happens along the line right. I've tried so many different diets and exercise plans over the years with little or no results - and for the first time, something big is happening so I take comfort in that for whatever it might be worth.

@TateFTW - thanks, you're post makes sense too. I'll think about all that's been said and maybe try eating more for a few weeks... If I start gaining though, I'm going straight back to Plan A, haha )

cjduckie

It a nutritionist is fine with you eating fast food she should be fired, I would check her credentials and get a second opinion
[/quote]

Can I just point out that LarieshaH did not say that her nutritionist was fine with her eating fast food. She said she was taking a hiatus from healthy eating.

LareishaH

Well I am no expert, but I can talk about my personal experience. I have been eating fast food just about everyday for the past week and a half but prior to that I was consistently below my 1200 calorie goal. Like you I have a personal trainer and I work out at least six days a week burning 500+ calories per day (I only count calories burned during cardio exercises). I am not convinced about the starvation mode discussed by many. I have consulted a nutritionist. She has reviewed my diary over a few weeks and she says that everything is okay as long as I continue to take my vitamin everyday. I read someone's comment that you were probably losing muscle mass, but I can guarantee you that I am definitely not losing muscle. Since I do weight training five days a week, I am definitely building more muscle. I don’t think there is anything unhealthy about the way I have been losing weight, and since my hiatus from healthy eating, I haven’t gained a pound, I haven’t lost any either, but I haven’t gained. I am not telling you what to do, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. Good Luck!!!

You ca still lose muscle with weight training, It is easier for your body to burn muscle for energy and as it will save the fat as long as it can if it thinks it is starving. If you don't get enough calories no matter how much weight lifting you do you will lose weight. Even body builders lose muscle when dieting for competition, they actually lose more muscle than fat and they lift a lot of weights.

It a nutritionist is fine with you eating fast food she should be fired, I would check her credentials and get a second opinion

I think you misunderstood my post. Thank you cjduckie....the nutritionist only saw my diary prior to my eating fast food. And I agree that you can lose muscle while doing weight lifting, but I can guarantee you that I have gained way more muscle than I could have lost in the past three months. Like I said...I am not telling anybody what to do; however, I will continue to do what is working for me.

ginnyroxx

.

Lindsay7360

bump

mcohan

i say, do what works for you...if it is 780 caloris perday, and you are not dizzy, cranky, or tired all day every day then thats great! some people just dont NEED as many calories as others. i do believe however that calorie increases in the future will lead to dramatic weight gain. good luck to you, and i just hope that your weightloss is healthy for YOU, not everybody else

cjduckie

Thanks for the post Mcohan I'm still going strong... have lost 30lbs in total now :drinker: Starting to increase my calorie intake a little - but still staying under 1000/day and the weight is still coming off. Truth be told, I'm finding it rather difficult to eat more than that in a day (talking about "clean" food here)...even on my so-called "treat days" I max out at about 1300calories, that's after having something like MacD's for lunch and I generally feel ill afterwards (I think my body's just not accustomed to the high sodium and fat anymore)...but that said, I find my cravings for junk food have just about disappeared altogether, so I haven't had any fast food at all in the past month.

We measured last week, and I've lost 6% body fat and 134cm total since day 1. Just as an indication, I lost between 6 and 12cm all over the first month we measured, and at this second measuring between 1 and 5cm all over - so while I'm definitely still losing steadily, at the same time I'm toning up nicely and don't seem to be losing muscle mass at all. I do believe it's a case of each person being different. I'm interested to see how this progresses over time. Got another 19-24lbs to go to reach my final goal weight, but plan on taking a clean-eating "sabatical" over the holidays...hopefully I won't do too much damage...let's see

edorice

bump