Food availability in US vs. UK?

cincysweetheart

I don't know where you are looking at… or what you consider healthy, whole foods… but I grew up in a TINY little town in the middle of nowhere (population about 6,000). And we actually we were the biggest "city" within a 2 hour drive time radius. And we still had easy access to basic produce (a variety of fresh fruits and veggies) at our grocery stores. And we could always get chicken, turkey, fish, and beef that wasn't processed. You can chalk that up to nearby farms if you want… but the truth is, I've never been anywhere in the US (including some major metropolitan areas) where I haven't had access to a grocery store that has the same type of selection.

1911JR

I'm British, but have spent a fair amount of time in the US.

In the last 15-20 years, UK supermarkets have provided more and more processed foods (or ready meals), but you can still find absolutely any raw ingredient you like at most large supermarkets, and a decent enough selection in the express, 7/11 type stores (I'm thinking Tesco Metro, etc.)

However, whenever I've been to the US (mostly NY), I am surprised how difficult it is to find a decent (never mind full) range of raw ingredients. Is that just my misperception, or do you actually need to go out of your way to find fresh produce in the States?

First problem is, don`t judge the US based on NY. :noway: We have fresh everything here, year round.

perseverance14

I'm British, but have spent a fair amount of time in the US.

In the last 15-20 years, UK supermarkets have provided more and more processed foods (or ready meals), but you can still find absolutely any raw ingredient you like at most large supermarkets, and a decent enough selection in the express, 7/11 type stores (I'm thinking Tesco Metro, etc.)

However, whenever I've been to the US (mostly NY), I am surprised how difficult it is to find a decent (never mind full) range of raw ingredients. Is that just my misperception, or do you actually need to go out of your way to find fresh produce in the States?

First problem is, don`t judge the US based on NY. :noway: We have fresh everything here, year round.

If he was in Manhattan, there are tons of places to buy that kind of food...he probably didn't know where to go...he should have asked somebody.

donnat238

I've been to many parts of the US and I haven't noticed a shortage of fresh food. You may need to drive a few miles to find the nearest grocery store, farmers market, etc., but no shortages, unless the food isn't in season.

Alluminati

In for America bashing. Give me my usual.

Kotuliak

I'm British, but have spent a fair amount of time in the US.

In the last 15-20 years, UK supermarkets have provided more and more processed foods (or ready meals), but you can still find absolutely any raw ingredient you like at most large supermarkets, and a decent enough selection in the express, 7/11 type stores (I'm thinking Tesco Metro, etc.)

However, whenever I've been to the US (mostly NY), I am surprised how difficult it is to find a decent (never mind full) range of raw ingredients. Is that just my misperception, or do you actually need to go out of your way to find fresh produce in the States?

Very strange.

I live in a small town just outside an urban area. I do 90% of my shopping within a 10-mile radius, at Whole Foods (full spectrum of produce, both conventional and organic, as well as a huge selection of grains, etc.), Safeway and Trader Joe's (a mixture of organic and conventional), Walmart and Target (smaller but adequate produce sections), and a Farmers Market.

I have also lived in Houston, TX, and a medium sized college town in the Midwest, and I've never had any trouble finding high quality fresh produce.

MaryJane_8810002

As a former Manhattanite i say it depends on the neighborhood.

SeattleRaven

When I lived in the Adirondacks (Saranac Lake, NY) in the late 90s, the grocery selection was terrible. Not much choice of fresh fruits or vegetables--I had to hunt for farmer stands or drive to Plattsburgh for groceries. Good local apples and maple syrup, though.

dbmata

I disagree. US food is superb. The Pacific Northwest is chock full of farmer's markets, local ingredients, farm shares, community gardens, and small business vendor stands which offer organic foods that are generally much cheaper than their supermarket counterparts.

Lots of patchouli granola with hemp seeds too.

I do have to mention, that I find it amusing that someone from the UK is trying to say how hard it is to find food here in the US. I had to learn Brit food when I was in culinary school. It's like a 12 year old went crazy in a pantry and then forgot spices, and salt.

Hey, hey, a lot of people are getting really defensive here. Chill your boots. I was asking an honest question. I wasn't criticising US cuisine, or saying that UK cuisine was any model of health or flavour (which it certainly isn't)

I've got to say, as someone who has only been on this site a few days, I'm a bit disappointed at the aggro flying around.

That's ok, you're new here, you'll adjust. It's not all pip-pips and cheerios though. I've been reading good stuff about "new british" cuisine, might be worth exploring once it's had a chance to steep for a few years.

Of course once things like kidney and suet go the way of the dodo.

I will say if you're spending *any* time in Northern NY, and not making full use of thefarmer's stands and honor stands on the road, you're basically just ignoring some really amazing food.

At the end of the day, it's amazingly easy here to find staples, raw ingredients, and absolutely amazing foodstuffs. It's much harder to find good processed food.

VBnotbitter

In for America bashing. Give me my usual.

You know this might be your perception based on passed threads because the OP sounded like a genuine question and not bashing the US at all.

The USA is such an influential country in so many ways that people who don't live there are genuinely curious. Don't always mistake that curiosity for bashing.

scottkjar

I wonder if different people here have different ideas of what OP means by raw ingredients. For example, if we are talking about fresh bananas or lettuce, those are easily accessible everywhere. Fresh green beans not frozen or canned are available at a farmer's market but that requires a bit more effort than a visit to the neighborhood Safeway. Freshly killed unplucked chickens require a bit more effort.

I think we need to understand what "raw ingredients" we are discussing in order to reach any consensus.

lemurcat12

I wonder if different people here have different ideas of what OP means by raw ingredients. For example, if we are talking about fresh bananas or lettuce, those are easily accessible everywhere. Fresh green beans not frozen or canned are available at a farmer's market but that requires a bit more effort than a visit to the neighborhood Safeway. Freshly killed unplucked chickens require a bit more effort.

I think we need to understand what "raw ingredients" we are discussing in order to reach any consensus.

I asked what he couldn't find, so on that we agree, although my impression is he was looking for produce in like a 7/11, where it is limited.

But the idea that fresh green beans aren't available everywhere is strange to me. I can't recall being at a supermarket as an adult that didn't have them.

RodaRose

In for America bashing. Give me my usual.

You know this might be your perception based on passed threads because the OP sounded like a genuine question and not bashing the US at all.

The USA is such an influential country in so many ways that people who don't live there are genuinely curious. Don't always mistake that curiosity for bashing.

All well and good except he is a Brit actually living in the U.S. That confuses me.

On my 12.3 mile commute to work I drive past six or seven full grocery stores that carry fresh green beans.

amusedmonkey

Oh my, you should come to the middle east (or at least my city) where you can't walk 10 minutes in any direction of house populated areas without finding a fresh produce store, a butcher or a fresh dairy store (or all three), not to mention produce sections in every single general mall regardless of size, plus a basic selection of fresh vegetables at quite a few cornershops.

They're not that expensive in season either. Yesterday I bought some tomatoes for the equivalent of 20 american cents per kilogram (a little more than 2 pounds). Other things are quite expensive though, a single avocado goes for about 5-7 dollars and a 125 g (4.4 ounces) pack of blueberries or raspberry goes for about 10 dollars.

lexbubbles

I wonder if different people here have different ideas of what OP means by raw ingredients. For example, if we are talking about fresh bananas or lettuce, those are easily accessible everywhere. Fresh green beans not frozen or canned are available at a farmer's market but that requires a bit more effort than a visit to the neighborhood Safeway. Freshly killed unplucked chickens require a bit more effort.

I think we need to understand what "raw ingredients" we are discussing in order to reach any consensus.

I asked what he couldn't find, so on that we agree, although my impression is he was looking for produce in like a 7/11, where it is limited.

But the idea that fresh green beans aren't available everywhere is strange to me. I can't recall being at a supermarket as an adult that didn't have them.

Whereas here in the UK it ISN'T limited, which was exactly OPs point I believe. Access to produce is more limited in the US than the UK. Which as someone said, is probably due to relative size. We're a bit more compact over here. The idea of 'driving 10 miles' as being an acceptable for groceries is so alien.

The smaller 'express' supermarkets which are the closest we have to 7/11s still have a large range of produce. Even tiny 'corner shop' type convenience stores have a reasonable range. I've had several American friends come visit me (from San Francisco, Hartford CT and Cape Cod, respectively) all of whom comment on the increased range and availability of food in just about every shop.

I didn't see their point (or rather, fully comprehend it I guess?) until I visited the States (DC, Philadelphia, Asbury Park NJ, NYC, Boston, and Hartford CT). And, yeah, they totally had a point. Even WALMART had less food than our ASDA (which is owned by Walmart. It's... the same thing) something that was TOTALLY MIND-BLOWING to the Americans when they came here "wait, your Walmart sells all this food? This is so much food! Ours hardly has any in comparison! It's, like, ALL FOOD"

I don't think OP is saying you can't find produce anywhere. I think he's saying it's ridiculous to have to drive 10 miles for it and that unless you live in Butt**** Nowhere in the UK*, you're not going to have to go more than maaaaybe 2 or 3 miles. It's a lot easier to come by over here.

My nearest (Morrisons) is 0.3 miles. Within 2 miles of my house there are:
14 Tesco supermarkets of varying sizes
11 Sainsburys
6 Co-Op
1 very large ASDA

33 supermarkets in a 2 mile radius. 33.

(My nearest Waitrose is 4 miles away. I live in the East End of Glasgow. we're not Middle Class enough for that sort of thing. They don't want Our Type in there, thank you very much)

The other thing I find strange is people saying "well yeah OBVIOUSLY it's harder to find fresh stuff in inner-city neighbourhoods" like ???????? Over here cities are the EASIEST places to find stuff. The reason I have 33 supermarkets (any of which I could walk into to get fresh green beans) within 2 miles is BECAUSE I live in the city. It's when you get further out that the number drops to single figures.

*My best friend actually does kinda live in Butt**** Nowhere - a tiny village in Northamptonshire with 1 shop (post office/general convenience store) and 2 pubs and a population of about 1,000. The Tesco they go to is 6 miles away, but it's a Superstore. There are a few smaller ones closer by.

Stuart107

If he was in Manhattan, there are tons of places to buy that kind of food...he probably didn't know where to go...he should have asked somebody.

OK... I'm in Manhattan next week for 7-8 days staying in a hotel on 43rd street just off Times Square. No car so where would be good places to go? Looking at Google maps there's places called "The Food Emporium" not far away and their website seems like it's a promising start but are there any other places within walking distance (1 mile radius) that I should also consider? Thanks.

Edit: I'm British and most of my (many) trips to the US have been to the mid-west and California and I've had a car so finding very good supermarkets (Vons, Albertsons, Safeway,...) within a short drive was no problem

dbmata

My nearest (Morrisons) is 0.3 miles. Within 2 miles of my house there are:
14 Tesco supermarkets of varying sizes
11 Sainsburys
6 Co-Op
1 very large ASDA

33 supermarkets in a 2 mile radius. 33.

You've essentially described San Francisco. Sounds pretty cool.

*My best friend actually does kinda live in Butt**** Nowhere - a tiny village in Northamptonshire with 1 shop (post office/general convenience store) and 2 pubs and a population of about 1,000. The Tesco they go to is 6 miles away, but it's a Superstore. There are a few smaller ones closer by.

That's my problem, I live in Butt**** Nowhere, and it takes a little extra work to get good stuff, and there are some things I just flat out can't get. For example, mutton? No. Sweetbreads? No. Pork with skin on? No. Blood? No. Pork or Duck liver? No. Foie Gras? No. Fresh or live seafood? No. With a few minutes of driving though, I can buy directly from some pretty decent farmers. It's just all about putting the work in if you want it, and doing a tiny touch of the ol' research.

RodaRose

If he was in Manhattan, there are tons of places to buy that kind of food...he probably didn't know where to go...he should have asked somebody.

OK... I'm in Manhattan next week for 7-8 days staying in a hotel on 43rd street just off Times Square. No car so where would be good places to go? Looking at Google maps there's places called "The Food Emporium" not far away and their website seems like it's a promising start but are there any other places within walking distance (1 mile radius) that I should also consider? Thanks.

Edit: I'm British and most of my (many) trips to the US have been to the mid-west and California and I've had a car so finding very good supermarkets (Vons, Albertsons, Safeway,...) within a short drive was no problem

The good news is that you can easily take taxis and people are helpful. The subway system is easy enough to navigate.
Times Square property (with help from NYC politicians was built by Disney) so it is one huge glitzy tourist zone and will not exactly have the grocery stores you seek.

Trader Joes is near where you are staying. (approx 1.3 miles south of you)
Westerly Natural Market (slightly more than one half mile walk north toward the park)
Otherwise, you have to get out of Times Square to a place where people live and shop.

lemurcat12

I wonder if different people here have different ideas of what OP means by raw ingredients. For example, if we are talking about fresh bananas or lettuce, those are easily accessible everywhere. Fresh green beans not frozen or canned are available at a farmer's market but that requires a bit more effort than a visit to the neighborhood Safeway. Freshly killed unplucked chickens require a bit more effort.

I think we need to understand what "raw ingredients" we are discussing in order to reach any consensus.

I asked what he couldn't find, so on that we agree, although my impression is he was looking for produce in like a 7/11, where it is limited.

But the idea that fresh green beans aren't available everywhere is strange to me. I can't recall being at a supermarket as an adult that didn't have them.

Whereas here in the UK it ISN'T limited, which was exactly OPs point I believe. Access to produce is more limited in the US than the UK. Which as someone said, is probably due to relative size. We're a bit more compact over here. The idea of 'driving 10 miles' as being an acceptable for groceries is so alien.

The smaller 'express' supermarkets which are the closest we have to 7/11s still have a large range of produce. Even tiny 'corner shop' type convenience stores have a reasonable range. I've had several American friends come visit me (from San Francisco, Hartford CT and Cape Cod, respectively) all of whom comment on the increased range and availability of food in just about every shop.

I didn't see their point (or rather, fully comprehend it I guess?) until I visited the States (DC, Philadelphia, Asbury Park NJ, NYC, Boston, and Hartford CT). And, yeah, they totally had a point. Even WALMART had less food than our ASDA (which is owned by Walmart. It's... the same thing) something that was TOTALLY MIND-BLOWING to the Americans when they came here "wait, your Walmart sells all this food? This is so much food! Ours hardly has any in comparison! It's, like, ALL FOOD"

I don't think OP is saying you can't find produce anywhere. I think he's saying it's ridiculous to have to drive 10 miles for it and that unless you live in Butt**** Nowhere in the UK*, you're not going to have to go more than maaaaybe 2 or 3 miles. It's a lot easier to come by over here.

My nearest (Morrisons) is 0.3 miles. Within 2 miles of my house there are:
14 Tesco supermarkets of varying sizes
11 Sainsburys
6 Co-Op
1 very large ASDA

33 supermarkets in a 2 mile radius. 33.

(My nearest Waitrose is 4 miles away. I live in the East End of Glasgow. we're not Middle Class enough for that sort of thing. They don't want Our Type in there, thank you very much)

The other thing I find strange is people saying "well yeah OBVIOUSLY it's harder to find fresh stuff in inner-city neighbourhoods" like ???????? Over here cities are the EASIEST places to find stuff. The reason I have 33 supermarkets (any of which I could walk into to get fresh green beans) within 2 miles is BECAUSE I live in the city. It's when you get further out that the number drops to single figures.

*My best friend actually does kinda live in Butt**** Nowhere - a tiny village in Northamptonshire with 1 shop (post office/general convenience store) and 2 pubs and a population of about 1,000. The Tesco they go to is 6 miles away, but it's a Superstore. There are a few smaller ones closer by.

But the point is that NO ONE in the US expects to find produce in a 7/11. That's not what they sell, beyond maybe a banana. It's like expecting books in a shoe store. It's not comparable to an express supermarket.

Beyond that, population density and prevalence of cars is the difference. I live in a big city. Thus, I can walk to at least 4 groceries with a full produce section, quite excellent ones, plus a small Spanish market (not a great one), a meat market with some produce, and have Thursday and Saturday farmers markets in close proximity to my home also. That's not 33, but who cares, why would I want that many, sounds a pointless use of space when I'd rather shop at the full scale store that is convenient. Of course, there are more if I counted from work too. And public transportation here is pretty good. And yet still the supermarkets have good parking because plenty of Americans, even in areas like mine, prefer to drive. (You can bash this if you want, I guess.)

In other areas of the country, you can't walk to the store due to distance or lack of good walking infrastructure, but those are usually less dense areas or areas where everyone drives. Comparable to your BFN example, and yeah they'd have something in an easy driving distance just like the place you mentioned. When I was a kid we technically could have walked to the grocery--it was closer than any 7/11 equivalent other than a gas station thing--but it wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind to do so. And no one grocery shopped at the gas station, ugh.

There is an issue with food desserts some places, including in my own city, as I discussed above, but that's different than the fact that most Americans outside of major cities tend to drive (short distances usually) to the store. You are taking differences between the two countries in density and car usage and drawing ridiculous conclusions (Americans lack access to produce) from it. Fact is we are organized differently and you seem to like having lots of convenient store places to buy at whereas that doesn't appeal to me as I have a different idea of supermarkets, but the attitude that the US is thus missing out is odd. I don't expect other countries to have precisely what the US does, in the same way.

Oh and "the city" is not "inner city neighborhoods." Like I said I live in a city and it's about as far from a food dessert as you can get. There are issues with access to good supermarkets in some inner citiy areas (read, really poor areas with crime issues, etc.) here, although there is also public transportation, which are being addressed and on which progress is being made, but it's a more complicated issue than some let on. It does not mean that access to produce in the US or even US cities is limited generally.

SunofaBeach14

I wonder if different people here have different ideas of what OP means by raw ingredients. For example, if we are talking about fresh bananas or lettuce, those are easily accessible everywhere. Fresh green beans not frozen or canned are available at a farmer's market but that requires a bit more effort than a visit to the neighborhood Safeway. Freshly killed unplucked chickens require a bit more effort.

I think we need to understand what "raw ingredients" we are discussing in order to reach any consensus.

I asked what he couldn't find, so on that we agree, although my impression is he was looking for produce in like a 7/11, where it is limited.

But the idea that fresh green beans aren't available everywhere is strange to me. I can't recall being at a supermarket as an adult that didn't have them.

Whereas here in the UK it ISN'T limited, which was exactly OPs point I believe. Access to produce is more limited in the US than the UK. Which as someone said, is probably due to relative size. We're a bit more compact over here. The idea of 'driving 10 miles' as being an acceptable for groceries is so alien.

The smaller 'express' supermarkets which are the closest we have to 7/11s still have a large range of produce. Even tiny 'corner shop' type convenience stores have a reasonable range. I've had several American friends come visit me (from San Francisco, Hartford CT and Cape Cod, respectively) all of whom comment on the increased range and availability of food in just about every shop.

I didn't see their point (or rather, fully comprehend it I guess?) until I visited the States (DC, Philadelphia, Asbury Park NJ, NYC, Boston, and Hartford CT). And, yeah, they totally had a point. Even WALMART had less food than our ASDA (which is owned by Walmart. It's... the same thing) something that was TOTALLY MIND-BLOWING to the Americans when they came here "wait, your Walmart sells all this food? This is so much food! Ours hardly has any in comparison! It's, like, ALL FOOD"

I don't think OP is saying you can't find produce anywhere. I think he's saying it's ridiculous to have to drive 10 miles for it and that unless you live in Butt**** Nowhere in the UK*, you're not going to have to go more than maaaaybe 2 or 3 miles. It's a lot easier to come by over here.

My nearest (Morrisons) is 0.3 miles. Within 2 miles of my house there are:
14 Tesco supermarkets of varying sizes
11 Sainsburys
6 Co-Op
1 very large ASDA

33 supermarkets in a 2 mile radius. 33.

(My nearest Waitrose is 4 miles away. I live in the East End of Glasgow. we're not Middle Class enough for that sort of thing. They don't want Our Type in there, thank you very much)

The other thing I find strange is people saying "well yeah OBVIOUSLY it's harder to find fresh stuff in inner-city neighbourhoods" like ???????? Over here cities are the EASIEST places to find stuff. The reason I have 33 supermarkets (any of which I could walk into to get fresh green beans) within 2 miles is BECAUSE I live in the city. It's when you get further out that the number drops to single figures.

*My best friend actually does kinda live in Butt**** Nowhere - a tiny village in Northamptonshire with 1 shop (post office/general convenience store) and 2 pubs and a population of about 1,000. The Tesco they go to is 6 miles away, but it's a Superstore. There are a few smaller ones closer by.

But the point is that NO ONE in the US expects to find produce in a 7/11. That's not what they sell, beyond maybe a banana. It's like expecting books in a shoe store. It's not comparable to an express supermarket.

Beyond that, population density and prevalence of cars is the difference. I live in a big city. Thus, I can walk to at least 4 groceries with a full produce section, quite excellent ones, plus a small Spanish market (not a great one), a meat market with some produce, and have Thursday and Saturday farmers markets in close proximity to my home also. That's not 33, but who cares, why would I want that many, sounds a pointless use of space when I'd rather shop at the full scale store that is convenient. Of course, there are more if I counted from work too. And public transportation here is pretty good. And yet still the supermarkets have good parking because plenty of Americans, even in areas like mine, prefer to drive. (You can bash this if you want, I guess.)

In other areas of the country, you can't walk to the store due to distance or lack of good walking infrastructure, but those are usually less dense areas or areas where everyone drives. Comparable to your BFN example, and yeah they'd have something in an easy driving distance just like the place you mentioned. When I was a kid we technically could have walked to the grocery--it was closer than any 7/11 equivalent other than a gas station thing--but it wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind to do so. And no one grocery shopped at the gas station, ugh.

There is an issue with food desserts some places, including in my own city, as I discussed above, but that's different than the fact that most Americans outside of major cities tend to drive (short distances usually) to the store. You are taking differences between the two countries in density and car usage and drawing ridiculous conclusions (Americans lack access to produce) from it. Fact is we are organized differently and you seem to like having lots of convenient store places to buy at whereas that doesn't appeal to me as I have a different idea of supermarkets, but the attitude that the US is thus missing out is odd. I don't expect other countries to have precisely what the US does, in the same way.

Oh and "the city" is not "inner city neighborhoods." Like I said I live in a city and it's about as far from a food dessert as you can get. There are issues with access to good supermarkets in some inner citiy areas (read, really poor areas with crime issues, etc.) here, although there is also public transportation, which are being addressed and on which progress is being made, but it's a more complicated issue than some let on. It does not mean that access to produce in the US or even US cities is limited generally.

I agree with this, particularly the bolded part above. I'll add that the OP's question was crafted poorly and the logic behind it is spurious at best. I wouldn't expect that of someone reasonably well educated and traveled, so it's frankly not unreasonable to conclude a xenophobic attitude is behind it. Take that as you like, but the only explanations I can come up with are ignorance or xenophobia, as the question is ridiculous.