Had a fitness assessment, feel even more confused

sijomial

High Intensity Interval training for half an hour can burn as many calories as hours of steady state cardio if you give it your all - try a boot camp class!

No it won't.
Don't fall for the hype surrounding HIIT - yes it's great training but it's not that big a calorie burner, if someone is truly doing HIIT then the duration is very short.
Training should be towards your health and fitness goals and not just calorie burning anyway.


OP - give yourself some time to take stock and why not give the trainer's advice a go? If you don't enjoy it keep trying other things until you find something effective and enjoyable.

WandaMM1

The advice sounds good to me! She's not telling you not to do cardio, she's telling you to do high intensity interval cardio after your heavy lifting sessions. This program will be great for helping you burn fat, and much more effective than hours of low intensity cardio. You could always add some walking or other easy activity on the days you don't lift, if you have the energy.

Unless you really dislike lifting weights, give this program a try for a month or so, work hard and see what happens! I think you'll be happy with the results.

I agree with this ^ but would add give it maybe 2-3 months. I lift heavy 3 times a week and do 60 minutes of cardio 2 or 3 times a week. I have lost almost 75 pounds doing that combination targeting 1200-1500 calories a week. (I reset my goals when I changed my nutrition plan so my ticker doesn't reflect my total weight loss. I eat closer to 1500 on my heavy lifting days and closer to 1200 on my cardio days.

irismurasaki

Under what settings does MFP "give" you 1200 calories? If you have it set for "lose 2 lbs a week," dial it back to "lose 1 lb per week" until you get your bearings.

AlliSteff

I understand you are a bit overwhelmed. I will share my approach to getting back into shape, which I staretd last September.

First, I started cardio classes just to get in better shape in general. After a few weeks of things like Kickboxing and Spin, I started adjusting my schedule to accomodate classes htat included weight work (we don't have Bodypump- but I've been doing a class of all weights after a class of Spin, a class that is an hour of TRX, kettlebells, and Medicine ball, a class that splits 20 min cardio and 20 minutes of weight work). This way I was getting stronger and in better shape.

I then moved to a heavy lifitng routine with 3-4 days of cardio

Slow and steady, and do what you are ready for.

Azdak

The advice sounds good to me! She's not telling you not to do cardio, she's telling you to do high intensity interval cardio after your heavy lifting sessions. This program will be great for helping you burn fat, and much more effective than hours of low intensity cardio. You could always add some walking or other easy activity on the days you don't lift, if you have the energy.

Unless you really dislike lifting weights, give this program a try for a month or so, work hard and see what happens! I think you'll be happy with the results.

I spent many years doing it "my way" which was mostly cardio... I'd drop weight, but having not built much muscle I had a very difficult time maintaining my loss. I am currently working with a trainer. For the first time I am trusting someone to guide me and actually doing what he says... It doesn't always make sense to me, but I trust him...

I have made more progress in the last 6 months than I had made in years of doing it my way... I am training for bike races. The first things he told me were. 1. Eat more, but differently. Focus on nutrition not just calories. 2. Cut your cardio back, you are overtraining. 3. Add weights. Increasing your muscle mass increases your RMR, so that it is easier to maintain.

I've dropped 12% BF and 15 pounds...

Take home message... Find someone you trust who has shown they know how to succeed, and give them a chance to help you. Put aside your ideas (they weren't working anyway) and commit to the program.

Best of luck, Nikki

That may very well be true, but the important phrase is "someone you trust who has shown they know how to succeed".

Nothing in the advice the OP got from her trainer justifies that level of trust. It's patently obvious that the trainer was A) reflexively parroting the current fad cliches and not paying attention to the OP's background/abilities/needs and C) primarily pimping training packages.

When people are not achieving the results they want and they turn to a new approach, they also tend to become more committed, more focused, and more motivated. The new approach may also correct some deficits they had in their previous program. Because of that, they often see a breakthough to a new level. It is natural to assume that the results are solely due to the "new" routine and it is also natural to assume that the "new" approach is inherently superior to what the person did previously and should be the preferred approach for everyone.

But that is not always a correct assumption. It discounts the critical importance of being more focused and consistent--which would result in ANY program becoming more effective. It also ignores the fact that, over time, the same decrease in focus and consistency will likely creep into the "new" program and there will be diminishing returns--followed by a change to the current exercise "flavor of the month".

I see this every day. The people who weren't seeing results because they were doing crappy cardio programs aren't suddenly seeing dramatic changes because they switched to weights and intervals. Now, they are just doing crappy weight/interval programs---and burning significantly fewer calories to boot (camp). And those who are doing focused, quality workouts and being consistent are seeing consistent results and improvement--regardless of the modality.

rogerOb1

Yeah, sounds like good advice. Why the worry about 1200 calories? MFP gave you that number bc you probably said you wanted to lose the weight fast. If you want to eat more, then up your calories and exercise (yes, lifting is excellent) and do the loss more gradually.

And relax...why scared? You aren't diffusing an atom bomb here, where you must get it right and do it quickly the first time or we all blow! You are learning how to build a sustainable lifelong pattern of fitness and good health. That will require some trial and error and periodic adjustment based on results. Try her suggestions, tweaked with more cardio if you wish, and see what happens. Be prepared for a short term gain from water weight as your muscles heal but watch the trend over a few weeks. If this routine doesn't work for you, then tweak it again.

What doc said....

jimmmer

[...] And those who are doing focused, quality workouts and being consistent are seeing consistent results and improvement--regardless of the modality.

^This.

It's often like religion with people advocating their modality as the best. But there's more than one way to skin a cat.

LouDat

this trainer is right on (im certified by the ACSM). but, 1200 kcals is bare minimum for a female and likely doesn't account for your exercise. whatever you do, you NEED to trust us professionals more that everyone else.

im always so appalled at the willingness of non-professionals to hand out fitness information, and it's so often so wrong. ask yourself this question, "is this fitness professional educated and do they honestly care about my wellbeing and personal goals?" if the answer is yes then follow their direction. if the answer is no, then find another trainer.

beth0277

Okay, let me clear up a few things...I'm sorry, I've had a busy morning at work!

The trainer is very well qualified. She has a bachelors degree in exercise phsyiology (sp?), masters in something else, is a certified personal trainer of the ISSA (not sure what that is, got it from the website), is in fantastic shape herself, and most of all, she seemed to really want to help me. This is a fitness center through a hospital that I work at, so it is a bit more focused on general health than just losing weight and being slim. I feel confident that she wasn't trying to sell me anything. She said she WILL get me off my cholesterol meds and seemed focused more on me being healthy and strong than anything else. I do trust her, she came very highly recommended from a few other people that I work with.

Secondly, I'm not afraid of weights, not afraid that I will get bulky, and actually like to lift so I don't mind that part. The part that I am scared of is just giving up the calorie burn of cardio. Plus, I love to run. But I think I came up with a solid plan which is that I am going to train with mostly weights and intervals at the gym 3 days a week, one of those being a personal training day. 3 other days I will do some jogging, since I love it, or just walk, whatever I feel like to get my body moving. Stick to my 1500 calories and see how it goes.

Lastly, when I put 12 almonds, that is what I eat. I count 12. Almonds are pretty consistently sized so no, I don't weigh them. A serving is 24 and sometimes I choose to do half a serving (80 calories instead of 160) and add a cup of coffee or another treat instead of the full serving.

I guess the reason why I am scared is because I was so shocked to see in numbers how out of shape I am. I can run about 5-6 miles with not many issues so I thought that while I need to lose weight, I wasn't in horrible shape. But I was wrong. Everything from my body fat to my heart rate recovery, everything was way off of what it should be. I guess I was just expecting her to say "Okay, to lose weight I want you to do cardio and some small weights" but she basically told me the opposite. I trust her, it's just out of my comfort zone.

MKEgal

So I had a fitness assessment this morning as a part of joining a new gym and left in tears... because I'm just so lost.

That's no good. :flowerforyou:
If it helps any, I cry when I'm frustrated too.
Take a breath, do some reading & research (on reputable sites).

MFP gives me 1200 calories but I know that is not sustainable for me.

Then don't do it.
1200 is the minimum any woman should eat if she's not under a doctor's care (or extremely short).

What my doctor & nutritionist told me is to multiply my healthy goal weight (as determined by BMI: http://www.shapeup.org/bmi/bmi6.pdf ) by 10 to get calories.
Also, ignore net, just eat that amount total. That's to lose weight.
Between about 4'8" and 5'7", 120 would be a healthy goal weight based on BMI, but it's going to look & feel a lot different.
For my initial goal, I'm aiming for the top end of the green range for my height. When I get there, I may want to lose a little more, or I may like it.

When you get to a healthy weight, increase your calories slightly. Harvard Medical School says to multiply by 15 to get the calories needed to maintain weight.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/HB_web/calorie-counting-made-easy.htm

she said I need to stop focusing on cardio so much and lift heavy
She said I should be doing heavy weights followed by about 20 minutes of interval cardio

It does sound like the current fad recommendation.
Besides, what does "lift heavy" mean? Did she define it? Did she give you specifics as to how to figure out how much you should be lifting, how many reps/sets, and when to increase the weight?

Cardio will burn more calories, weight training will make you look better once you're thinner. Also, muscle burns more calories even at rest.
For the cardio, start where you are. Don't jump into 20 min of HIIT if all you've done is walk to the car. Ease into it or you're going to hurt yourself. (If the gal you talked with didn't discuss this, don't spend money on her. It's basic common sense & safety.)

The CDC recommends at least 150 minutes a week (30 min x 5 days) of aerobic (cardio) exercise.
"Most weight loss occurs because of decreased caloric intake.
However, evidence shows the only way to maintain weight loss is to be engaged in regular physical activity. To maintain your weight: work your way up to 150 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic activity, 75 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic activity, or an equivalent mix of the two each week."
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html

She also thinks I should set up some personal training sessions to at least get a start/program

It could be a good idea, but ask for specifics before you buy anything.
If I were going to buy a couple sessions with a personal trainer, first I'd be sure the person was certified.

Here's where you can search for people in your area who are certified by the American College of Sports Medicine:
http://members.acsm.org/source/custom/Online_locator/OnlineLocator.cfm
They're not the only group, but probably the most reputable.

Then I'd want to have an understanding that the person was going to assess where I am now (including health), create a starting program, explain how to do the exercises safely & effectively, explain how she determined the weight she's starting me out with, the reps & sets, and when to increase either.

How long is a session, and how many does she think it would take to do what you want to learn?

************************

Here are a couple of blog posts I did that you might find helpful.
Goal setting:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/setting-goals-667045

Exercise:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/exercise-667080

MeanderingMammal

So I had a fitness assessment this morning as a part of joining a new gym and left in tears. Not because I found out I am seriously out of shape, I knew that. But because I'm just so lost.

Your objective, and the assessors objective are slightly different. That doesn't mean that the advice was wrong, or inappropriate, but it's always worth understanding agendas before taking that advice at face value.

Sounds like your objective is purely weight loss, rather than anything about sports performance, so I can understand why it would seem counterintuitive to you. However the advice, to an extent, makes some sense albeit that the results you'll see aren't as simple as the ones that you're hoping for at the moment.

MFP gives me 1200 calories but I know that is not sustainable for me. I've done that and lost and then crashed and burned and gained tons back. So, I allow myself 1500 with the mental agreement that I will burn at least a few hundred a day.

I'm surprised that a trainer didn't discuss diet with you, I'd expect any worth their salt to have done so, but again in terms of agenda they may have some form of nutrition available through the gym that'll be available to you to buy.

Essentially MFP has taken your base data, and your weight loss rate objective, and given you a calorie goal accounting for your deficit. If you choose to eat more, and reduce the size of the deficit then you won't lose as fast, or possibly gain.

As MFP has already accounted for the deficit, if you do train then you should be eating back the calories that you burn. So if you run 3 miles then eat back an additional 300 calories or so.

Well the woman I met with was wonderful and she said I need to stop focusing on cardio so much and lift heavy. I know that is the popular thing these days and probably for great reasons and if I had 10 pounds to lose, maybe it would be right for me, but I have 40 to lose. I'm afraid of not doing cardio. She said I should be doing heavy weights followed by about 20 minutes of interval cardio.

As you identify, this approach is very fashionable at the moment, and it's also the highest revenue for the trainers. Thaat said I would agree that a balance of resistance training and CV work is going to give you the most benefit in the long term. As you lose weight in deficit the resistance training helps you to retain lean mass, the CV work will have other effects, depending on how you do it. It'll help to deliver your deficit, but can also deliver endurance and performance improvements.

What I would say about high intensity intervals is that it's only one of three main types of CV work, and in the absence of a solid aerobic base I'd suggest that you're not going to get the best effect from it.

That would be 3 days a week and I know I could do more cardio than she suggests but I just feel like I have no clue what to do.

To a large extent the most effective programme is the one that you'll actually do consistently. If you don't like this then the prospects of you committing to it are reduced.

Personally I loathe training indoors, and I find weight training boring as hel. So for me the compromise is bodyweight resistance training alongside a lot of running and cycling. My priorities are around running and cycling performance, the resistance training supports that and as I'm less bored by it then I'm more likely to do it. It helps me avoid injury, and improves my speed and endurance.

I tend to take the view that there is an over-reliance on high intensity intervals. They're a time efficient way of burning calories, but they don't build aerobic base. I use them for improving my running speed and my ability to perform at high levels of stress. They're used alongside the long steady run and ride sessions, and tempo run and ride sessions. If all I did was 20 minute interval session then I'd not be able to knock out a sub 2 hr half marathon. Equally if all I did was long steady runs of 20-25km then I wouldn't be able to knock out a sub 2 hr half marathon.

Equally I find my tempo and long sessions to be pretty therapeutic. Going out on the road for a couple of hours helps me a lot in terms of clearing my head and working through issues needing resolved at work.

She also thinks I should set up some personal training sessions to at least get a start/program but I don't know,

It may be worth setting up a couple to learn effective form on the resistance training, but similarly talk about the type of CV work that you want to do.

I'd suggest that an approach would be to sepaate the resistance training and CV days, which would allow you more space to do a quality CV session.

fwiw for me, a quality CV session is weight bearing moderate to high intensity, not an elliptical or recumbent.

tar0809

That is the general rule of thumb for personal trainers. Mine said the same thing to me pretty much. When I first started seeing him he didn't really have me focus on cardio but lifting 3 to 4 days a week. But you have to go hard and keep going with no break in between but always have the weights be on the scale that your comfortable with you don't want to go too heavy starting off but eventually you will be able to lift heavier once you build up strength. He would alternate routines, I saw him once a week and one session he would do upper body, another would be lower body then another session he would have me do cardio type workouts like lifting tires, sprinting, jogging, running up/down stairs, mountain climbers, jumping jacks..etc. That did help me for about 7 months then my body got used to it so I felt like I needed to up my cardio so I did but I still lifted 3 to 4 days a weeks but I would just do more cardio on top of that, I would try jogging outside of the gym on rest days too for like an hour. I too had 40lbs to lose but I stayed on the 1200 cal diet and still am on it even though I'm very close to my goal weight-some days its hard but others aren't so bad!! Like other posters have said you have to get out of your comfort zone. over 1 year ago I did NO form of exercise then starting lifting and doing cardio and at first it was hard for me and I wanted to give up ALOT but I didn't! I'm sure you can do it if you put your mind to it! Have faith

jlapey

Its sounds like solid advice to me. I'm 5' 0" and currently weigh 147.5. That's only 17 down from my original weight some time ago. It doesn't sound like much, but my body has changed tremendously (for the better) in appearance thanks to weight lifting 3 times a week. I don't do a lot of cardio. I may go for a walk after my lifting session if time and weather permits. I don't count calories at all. I monitor my weight daily to be sure I'm not gaining and adjust my food choices around my activity level for the week. I eat more on workout days than rest days. If I have an event/holiday where I know my food choices are not ideal, I eat it anyway, enjoy it and make up for later. I'm sure if I counted calories, I'd be a lot further along than I am, but I'm not unsatisfied with my progress and I'm not stressed about food. I've developed what I think are healthy, sustainable habits and it's working good enough for me.

dbmata

I want long term, sustainable results and maybe this is the way to get them, but it scares me.

Suck it up buttercup. You've been given the answer, and its taking you out of your comfort zone but thats what life's about.
Take measurements, report back in 3 months with your results

Yup.

Also OP, stop trying to overthink it. It's really simple. However, if you want to eat 1200 calories daily? Go for it. No one is going to stop you. It's not the best thing for you, but hey... you do you, right? It won't be the sustainable situation you are looking for though.

So you know the score:
Lift some
Cardio some
Eat some

Lose some. Eh?

3laine75

So I had a fitness assessment this morning as a part of joining a new gym and left in tears. Not because I found out I am seriously out of shape, I knew that. But because I'm just so lost. MFP gives me 1200 calories but I know that is not sustainable for me. I've done that and lost and then crashed and burned and gained tons back. So, I allow myself 1500 with the mental agreement that I will burn at least a few hundred a day. Well the woman I met with was wonderful and she said I need to stop focusing on cardio so much and lift heavy. I know that is the popular thing these days and probably for great reasons and if I had 10 pounds to lose, maybe it would be right for me, but I have 40 to lose. I'm afraid of not doing cardio. She said I should be doing heavy weights followed by about 20 minutes of interval cardio. I'm just so scared to do that. That would be 3 days a week and I know I could do more cardio than she suggests but I just feel like I have no clue what to do. She also thinks I should set up some personal training sessions to at least get a start/program but I don't know, I'm just so lost and confused and afraid and feel like I need to cut down to 1200 calories if I am going to have any success. I want long term, sustainable results and maybe this is the way to get them, but it scares me.

Congratulations - sounds like you actually got a PT who knows what she's talking about.

Look into 3 day compound lift programmes and book a session for her to show you the correct form (starting strength, Stronglifts 5x5, strong curves are all good beginner programmes IMO)

Or if you can afford it, try out the PT sessions, she's giving you solid advice, so far.

stealthq

...

I guess the reason why I am scared is because I was so shocked to see in numbers how out of shape I am. I can run about 5-6 miles with not many issues so I thought that while I need to lose weight, I wasn't in horrible shape. But I was wrong. Everything from my body fat to my heart rate recovery, everything was way off of what it should be. I guess I was just expecting her to say "Okay, to lose weight I want you to do cardio and some small weights" but she basically told me the opposite. I trust her, it's just out of my comfort zone.

Ah. That makes more sense.

OP, running moderate distances builds a good endurance base, but doesn't do a lot for heart rate recovery unless you're doing interval training, running hills, that sort of thing. Repeatedly spiking your heart rate and then resting will work better for that, and both lifting heavy weights and doing HIIT fit that bill. Losing weight is obviously doable with diet alone, with exercise as a bonus.

One thing I would be concerned about - HIIT is similar to lifting heavy in the amount of stress it puts on the body, IF you're legitimately going at high intensity. I'd be cautious about the number of sessions of lifting + HIIT I did in a week. Especially if you add in running as well while on a calorie deficit. Pay close attention to how well you are recovering, and make adjustments if you find you're not recovering well enough.

lemurcat12

OP, I think your plan sounds reasonable, just be careful to get adequate rest and don't burn yourself out.

I run too--I used to do a lot of endurance running 5-10 years ago, when I was in good shape, and am currently running around the distance you are, I think (4-6 mile runs plus one longer run that I'm building, because I'm training for a half). I can say that when I started up again I was frustrated with my speed (of course) but just assumed I'd get faster as I lost weight and ran more. While that's not entirely untrue, what really helped me, and actually ended up making my running in general more fun was adding in some interval training where I push myself to go faster. It even makes treadmill runs kind of bearable!

I've also found that doing weight training (which again I'm not yet doing the kind of real progressive program that I'd like to and plan to be soon) helps my running, as it strengthens muscles that runners often underemphasize or underemphasize if they aren't using good form. In the past when I ran lots I found that it helped me to cross train (biking and swimming) and these days while I do that too I'm excited about focusing more on higher intensity sessions and strength training.

Also, I was in unbelieveably horrible shape when I started this again back in January, and incredibly depressed and frustrated with my fitness level, since I felt like I'd let everything go so quickly and so badly. So I get where you are coming from. Getting a good program going and having success will help a lot, way before you get to where you want to be. And that you are already in condition to run 5-6 miles and enjoy it is fabulous!

W31RD0

So I had a fitness assessment this morning as a part of joining a new gym and left in tears. Not because I found out I am seriously out of shape, I knew that. But because I'm just so lost. MFP gives me 1200 calories but I know that is not sustainable for me. I've done that and lost and then crashed and burned and gained tons back. So, I allow myself 1500 with the mental agreement that I will burn at least a few hundred a day. Well the woman I met with was wonderful and she said I need to stop focusing on cardio so much and lift heavy. I know that is the popular thing these days and probably for great reasons and if I had 10 pounds to lose, maybe it would be right for me, but I have 40 to lose. I'm afraid of not doing cardio. She said I should be doing heavy weights followed by about 20 minutes of interval cardio. I'm just so scared to do that. That would be 3 days a week and I know I could do more cardio than she suggests but I just feel like I have no clue what to do. She also thinks I should set up some personal training sessions to at least get a start/program but I don't know, I'm just so lost and confused and afraid and feel like I need to cut down to 1200 calories if I am going to have any success. I want long term, sustainable results and maybe this is the way to get them, but it scares me.

HIIT has been shown to burn off more calories than low intensity cardio. Also your body tends to get used to the low intensity cardio and you start to see diminishing returns.

Try what your trainer is saying. If after say, two months you don't see any results consult with them and see what changes are needed to be made. If you are cutting to around 1500, you shouldn't also have to torture yourself with long bouts of cardio.

As far as the weightlifting go, remember you are exercising for maybe 3 to 6 hours a week. So you have at least 162 hours a day not training. The more muscle you build the more calories your body will burn in general. If the muscle training only adds 2 calories an hour to your TDEE, you will burn 336 extra calories a week without any extra effort. That's like an extra cardio run every week!

MeanderingMammal

HIIT has been shown to burn off more calories than low intensity cardio.

Inasmuch as exercising at higher intensity for 20 minutes is going to burn off more energy than exercising at low intensity for 20 minutes. Contrary to received wisdom on these boards HIIT is not magic and a 20 minute session will be about as effective for calorie expenditure as a steady state session for about 30 minutes at 70% MHR exertion. The effects of the two are different, with the HIIT session improving VO2Max and the threshold session improving exercise efficiency.

They do different things, and it's not just about the calorie expenditure.

Also your body tends to get used to the low intensity cardio and you start to see diminishing returns.

As with anything one needs to continue to challenge the system to see continued improvement, although given that low intensity is a particularly inefficient way to burn energy I'd question it's utility in a training system unless one has very specific objectives.

The originator has already identified the capacity to run 5-6 miles. She didn't say how long that took, but you're out of low intensity as soon as you're talking about running.

WalkingAlong

Your new plan sounds good.

Don't sweat the assessment numbers. They were discouraging for me, too. I think it's mostly meant to be motivating but some of us find it the opposite. Pick a number you do find motivating and focus on that instead. I'm jealous of your running ability!