Is using a Smith Machine worth it?

Wookinpanub

I am a 42 y/o accountant and not looking to join the body building circuit. I use the Smith Machine for flat bench as I don't feel comfortable with the unfettered barbell bench presses. I have never felt comfortable with dumbbells either as they just feel awkward to me.

My chest is my weakest area. I am going to add the incline bench on the smith machine to my routine. I currently do cable cross overs and dips on rare occasion.

Is a Smith Machine for flat and incline bench sufficient for a everyday Joe like me?

DavPul

can we define "worth it"? i mean, it's not ideal, but you can get stronger with it. you can gain muscle with it. it would not be my first, second, or third choice, but i can find things to do with it if the situation calls for it

BITEME_GRRR

Wait, whats wrong with the Smith Machine?

DavPul

Wait, whats wrong with the Smith Machine?

several things, actually.

1. moves in a straight line even tho that's not a natural range of motion for people on several exercises. (read: harder on joints)
2. tends to be counterweighted so adding 20 pounds often feels like adding 5 pounds. makes it harder to be accurate when progressing
3. the counter-weighting can affect the negative portion of the lift.

that's the gist of it. it's got it's place but it's also got it's limitations

mkfoster9

unless you are in a place with NOTHING BUT a smith machine, don't use one for ANYTHING. If there is ONLY a smith machine, use it to hold your towels and drinks while you do burpees.

they are garbage and mills for knee and shoulder injuries, especially if you are under 5'9" or over 6'... If you're worried about the need for a solo spot on bench, use a power cage (the squat station that looks like a box)

http://www.projectswole.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/power-rack.jpg

is a picture of a power cage set up for incline bench.

There's a little bit of automatic defensiveness built into your post - not looking to be a body-builder, ordinary joe like me, etc.

It's not really a matter of keeping yourself from blowing up into a steroid freak or whatever. It's a question of do you want to do the lift right or not? benching right essentially means barbell bench with free weights and if you are relatively healthy there's very little real reason not to.

Here is my suggestion: start with NOTHING on the free weight bench (that would usually be benching 40#). Add 2 1/2 pounds a workout until it's a comfortable load, and make sure you do each rep in a controlled fashion (obviously 40 is pretty light for most people - but focus on things like keeping the barbell level, lowering to your chest with control, then pushing out and raising it level, with control, favoring neither hand.

Your lack of comfort is probably a bad/weak axis of stabilization and favoring non-free stations like the Smith may actually be why.

So bench with NOTHING until you find the right grip width, the right back tension, the right foot position - and then add weight slowly but surely. Get the kinks out, build the comfort level.

The smith or even a lever machine essentially isolate your pec. You don't want to isolate your pec for a couple reasons - you could overbuild it without building up the smaller muscles around it, making you more brittle to injury, and you could injure a stabilizer when you try to use your "gym" muscle out of the lab, in the real world. It's also less efficient building calories and while you might feel like you are lifting more, you're actually building less real strength. Controlling the barbell in 3 dimensions is just as important to lifting as the number on the barbell.

Also, honestly, you are very unlikely to be asking this question and actually need incline or decline bench. They are diminishing returns exercises for areas most people don't need to target. Most people would be better off adding military presses or shoulder presses before the "fine tuning" of either incline or decline bench.

bizco

Personally I won't go near a Smith machine for the same reasons as Dav stated. Big risk for injury.

For your chest, do good old-fashioned push-ups. Bonus of working your core, shoulders, triceps, glutes, etc. with the many different variations.

mkfoster9

Personally I won't go near a Smith machine for the same reasons as Dav stated. Big risk for injury.

For your chest, do good old-fashioned push-ups. Bonus of working your core, shoulders, triceps, glutes, etc. with the many different variations.

There's nothing wrong with pushups unless 1) You can't do one, in which case you need to work with less than you weigh by about 1/2 or 2) You can do 50+, in which case you might as well bench and save time.

Unknown

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rogerOb1

If you have free weight option, no not really. The smiths machine is good at making people think they can lift more than they actually can though, so I guess it can be good for the ego....

Almost everyone feels awkward lifting in the gym at first, but learn the form on dumbbells (probably easiest to start with these) and the normal bench, and within a few weeks you'dve forgotten what you were soo worried about.

zetodd

Many gyms have Hammer Strength or similar that you might want to try.

I think if it feels unnatural to use dumbbells or a barbell it might be a good idea to have someone check your form or watch some youtube videos on how to lift. I had issues with how the bench felt because my grip was in the wrong place.

EliteFTS so you think you can bench https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHx1gYTA-Rw

Jim_Barteck

I am a 42 y/o accountant and not looking to join the body building circuit. I use the Smith Machine for flat bench as I don't feel comfortable with the unfettered barbell bench presses. I have never felt comfortable with dumbbells either as they just feel awkward to me.

My chest is my weakest area. I am going to add the incline bench on the smith machine to my routine. I currently do cable cross overs and dips on rare occasion.

Is a Smith Machine for flat and incline bench sufficient for a everyday Joe like me?

Pay no attention to the naysayers. A Smith Machine is fine for you.

1) If you're working alone, then a Smith Machine is a great substitute for a spotter.

2) Who gives a flying fig whether or not "the weight is accurate." This isn't an ego competition. The only question you *ever* have to ask yourself: Is there more weight on the bar than last time I lifted? The number is completely irrelevant. Any other questions about how much you're lifting are strictly for the type of guys who are also interested in finding out if their junk is bigger than yours. It's fake machismo which has nothing to do with whether or not you can get a solid workout.

3) Smith Machine incline and flat presses are great additions to your chest routine, but of course they're not going to be the only thing. Dumbbell flys, Around the Worlds and Pullovers, Dips, Cable Inner Chest Presses and Cable Lower Chest Raises will not only help build the stabilizing muscles but help attack the pectoralis muscles from different angles.

4) As far as the risk for injury, that's completely made up in people's heads. Go ahead and Google "study risk of injury smith machine." How many results did you get that were actual academic studies showing a risk of injury? That's right. ZERO. Because it's purely based on unsubstantiated claims from people who think using Smith Machines isn't "manly" enough, or people who are talking about incorrect usage of a Smith Machine (which actually holds less risk than incorrectly using free weights).

Is a Smith Machine a perfect substitute for working with free weights? No. Does it work all the stabilizing muscles as well as free weights? No. Is it perfectly fine for what you're doing? Yes.

JoRocka

Personally I won't go near a Smith machine for the same reasons as Dav stated. Big risk for injury.

but.
but... what do you sit on between sets?

and where do you hang your sweat towel???

Unknown

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Sam_I_Am77

Wait, whats wrong with the Smith Machine?

several things, actually.

1. moves in a straight line even tho that's not a natural range of motion for people on several exercises. (read: harder on joints)
2. tends to be counterweighted so adding 20 pounds often feels like adding 5 pounds. makes it harder to be accurate when progressing
3. the counter-weighting can affect the negative portion of the lift.

that's the gist of it. it's got it's place but it's also got it's limitations

Yup, very much agree. I would probably opt for regular machines if I only had a choice between something like Hammer Strength machines and a Smith Machine.

jhc7324

One of biggest benefits to using the free weight flat bench that hasn't been mentioned yet is time efficiency. You're new to a lifting routine, so planning a workout that uses 10 different exercises to target your chest is probably overkill, its going to take a lot more time than you're comfortable with and will probably put you off of lifting before you even get started. Start out light, learn the proper form, increase the weights each time you lift and you'll be getting stronger, and be done with the chest exercises and able to move on to something else in 15 minutes or so. Isolation work has its place, but as a new lifter all its going to do for you is take some extra time and tire you out more.

Wookinpanub

Thanks y'all. There seems to be a consensus here. I think I am going to try the free weights using lighter weights until I get comfortable. I am nervous because I work out by myself and don't know the others in the weight room who are more of the muscle meat head types. I just worry about if I push myself on a rep not being able to put the bar back. So will this lack of pushing myself be worse than using the Smith Machine?

mkfoster9

I am a 42 y/o accountant and not looking to join the body building circuit. I use the Smith Machine for flat bench as I don't feel comfortable with the unfettered barbell bench presses. I have never felt comfortable with dumbbells either as they just feel awkward to me.

My chest is my weakest area. I am going to add the incline bench on the smith machine to my routine. I currently do cable cross overs and dips on rare occasion.

Is a Smith Machine for flat and incline bench sufficient for a everyday Joe like me?

Pay no attention to the naysayers. A Smith Machine is fine for you.

1) If you're working alone, then a Smith Machine is a great substitute for a spotter.

2) Who gives a flying fig whether or not "the weight is accurate." This isn't an ego competition. The only question you *ever* have to ask yourself: Is there more weight on the bar than last time I lifted? The number is completely irrelevant. Any other questions about how much you're lifting are strictly for the type of guys who are also interested in finding out if their junk is bigger than yours. It's fake machismo which has nothing to do with whether or not you can get a solid workout.

3) Smith Machine incline and flat presses are great additions to your chest routine, but of course they're not going to be the only thing. Dumbbell flys, Around the Worlds and Pullovers, Dips, Cable Inner Chest Presses and Cable Lower Chest Raises will not only help build the stabilizing muscles but help attack the pectoralis muscles from different angles.

4) As far as the risk for injury, that's completely made up in people's heads. Go ahead and Google "study risk of injury smith machine." How many results did you get that were actual academic studies showing a risk of injury? That's right. ZERO. Because it's purely based on unsubstantiated claims from people who think using Smith Machines isn't "manly" enough, or people who are talking about incorrect usage of a Smith Machine (which actually holds less risk than incorrectly using free weights).

Is a Smith Machine a perfect substitute for working with free weights? No. Does it work all the stabilizing muscles as well as free weights? No. Is it perfectly fine for what you're doing? Yes.

If there's a smith station next to a regular squat cage, is there any good reason to use the smith machine? No.
It doesn't have anything to do with cheating or ego or whatever. You're lifting to hit a goal, the free weights work better. End of convo. There's NO REASON to use a smith unless there's no cage in the gym. EVERYTHING you get out of a smith, including safety, you can get from a cage or a barbell rack with solo spot arms on it.

The issue with the smith helping you with the negative half of a lift isn't that it's "helping" you and that's bad because grunt grunt bro bro it's bad because if you're not controlling on descent, you're skipping half of the work you could be doing.

While there's no hard, specific study on "Smith machine safety" I could access quickly, there are more one on muscle recruitment and activity vs barbells: It's about 45% lower. Most of this recruitment happens in the secondary muscle groups. Stronger stabilizers implies safer, inside the weight room and out.

What you're basically saying to this guy is "Given the choice between similar time investment in two ergonomically similar exercises, it's OK to permanently adopt a 45% loss of efficiency to cater to a TEMPORARY sensation of mental discomfort with being a weight lifting newb"

The guy's an accountant, that should offend him on a numerical level.

So let's go over this again:

Safety: Smith machines aren't "safer," especially not for bench. You can put arms on a barbell setup or you can bench in a cage. You can also still drop a bar on yourself in a smith machine (most bar-drop injuries happen when you tear a quad or pass out, so the hooks are a good spotter but not a good preventer of catastrophe)

Benefit: Smith machines, scientifically, deliver an inferior rep to either free weights or newer lever or cable machines. And not by a small percentage.

Health: The plural of anecdote may not be data. There are plenty of people who are against the squat itself because they know a guy who hurt something squatting. Fair point. I'm not a scientist, I'm just a guy who squatted 200+ 50 times a week for years. I know a lot of strong guys, and a few of them did make those gains with machines. Smith reps FEEL bad to me. Many of the people I've seen hurt by lifting were hurt in a smith or in a lever machine. I'd like to find your study but it's a rather tricky question you've asked as a properly controlled study would involve subjecting human testers to something believed to have long term potential for injury, and point of injury incidentals for weight rooms aren't well logged for meta analysis. In addition, the entire population of people who squat and/or bench with form that meets control criteria AND use a smith machine probably isn't big enough to do a quality study on in many places.

I supposed my counter question would be if it's inferior workoutwise and even slightly potentially unsafe, why use it? To prove a point about peer review?

If this guy wants a stronger chest, the solution isn't adding a set of smith inclines to his smith bench program, it's getting out of the smith and doing real benches and doing more with less time and fewer reps to meet his goals.

jhc7324

Thanks y'all. There seems to be a consensus here. I think I am going to try the free weights using lighter weights until I get comfortable. I am nervous because I work out by myself and don't know the others in the weight room who are more of the muscle meat head types. I just worry about if I push myself on a rep not being able to put the bar back. So will this lack of pushing myself be worse than using the Smith Machine?

There's no need to be afraid to ask for a spot on the bench. I used to feel like that, when one day my lift fluttered, and I could tell i was going to fail to get the bar up and rack it. I was prepared to do the roll of shame when a guy ran over, spotted me off of the bottom and encouraged me to finish the rep.

I'm a similar guy to you, I work in accounting and I'm 36, so it was a little intimidating asking those guys for help at first, but after that I realized it doesn't matter. These guys don't know my background, they don't know how long I've been lifting, and frankly it doesn't matter. I'm in there doing the work, so I "fit in" to that group.

212019156

Ditch the smith machine and leg sled for that matter.

Never be ashamed or embarrassed to ask a meat head for a spot.

Wookinpanub

I was prepared to do the roll of shame when a guy ran over, spotted me off of the bottom and encouraged me to finish the rep.

What is the roll of shame? I remember college we had a crappy bench in our apt. I was alone doing benches and got stuck. I think I had to roll it down on my belly then flip it to one side. Is that it?

nlcs_nickyv32

What is the roll of shame? I remember college we had a crappy bench in our apt. I was alone doing benches and got stuck. I think I had to roll it down on my belly then flip it to one side. Is that it?

The roll of shame is where you can't finish the rep, place the bar on you abdomen and roll the bar off yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohvvfv0OwA

Wookinpanub

Yeah I had to do that but I never tried to roll over my package area so I just got it to my ab area then pushed off to the right.