I'll admit it -- I don't know what I'm doing

HardcoreP0rk
HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
When it comes to strength training - I love it. I know the mechanics very well and I recognize it's important.

What I DONT know is how to effectively eat and train in a way that gets me closer to my goals and prevents injury.

I WANT to have better muscle definition and less fat
I WANT to improve the appearance of my thighs and upper arms
I WANT to be able to do pull ups well
I WANT to be more powerful and fast on the soccer field

But it's hard...because I do a ton of cardio, and have no idea how to balance it appropriately with weights. I also don't know how I will build any muscle if I'm eating at a deficit. If I AM eating at a deficit, what kind of strength program should I follow?
I'm not sure if I should be doing high weight low reps, or vice versa.

Replies

  • odusgolp
    odusgolp Posts: 10,477 Member
    Really? YOU??
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    Really? YOU??

    I'm lost. I need a mental reset. I do too many activities are at odds with each other, and I'm getting injured.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Really? YOU??

    I'm lost. I need a mental reset. I do too many activities are at odds with each other, and I'm getting injured.

    I did much the same thing when I was younger.

    You have to learn to "park" some qualities whilst developing others. You need to work out what's most important to you now and refocus yourself on that whilst doing the bare minimum on everything else.
  • odusgolp
    odusgolp Posts: 10,477 Member
    Really? YOU??

    I'm lost. I need a mental reset. I do too many activities are at odds with each other, and I'm getting injured.

    Awww. Well good on you. Can I suggest SideSteel and Sara's group here? Eat Train Progress?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    When it comes to strength training - I love it. I know the mechanics very well and I recognize it's important.

    What I DONT know is how to effectively eat and train in a way that gets me closer to my goals and prevents injury.

    I WANT to have better muscle definition and less fat
    I WANT to improve the appearance of my thighs and upper arms
    I WANT to be able to do pull ups well
    I WANT to be more powerful and fast on the soccer field

    But it's hard...because I do a ton of cardio, and have no idea how to balance it appropriately with weights. I also don't know how I will build any muscle if I'm eating at a deficit. If I AM eating at a deficit, what kind of strength program should I follow?
    I'm not sure if I should be doing high weight low reps, or vice versa.

    Well let's start with this ....

    Deficit for better muscle definition, less fat, improve appearance....

    Weight lifting to retain the muscle you have.

    You probably won't build muscle but you will keep what you have. To balance cardio and weights do cardio on off days or after lifting.

    I personally have been doing Strong lifts 5x5 for 9 months and switch to 3x5 for the summer and love it. Low reps high weights.

    If you find you are not getting what you want out of lifting slow down on the cardio...if you find you aren't getting out of the cardio what you want slow down on the weight lifting.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    Sidesteal is great...forgot about him.


    I feel like I'm doing dumb things. Like, just because I can doesn't mean I should. I find myself doing 6 sets of 6 reps of 100 lbs on the squat rack and I'm thinking "Should I even be doing this? AND running 5 miles today? AND eating at a deficit?"

    I just dont know like, where to draw the line.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    When it comes to strength training - I love it. I know the mechanics very well and I recognize it's important.

    What I DONT know is how to effectively eat and train in a way that gets me closer to my goals and prevents injury.

    I WANT to have better muscle definition and less fat
    I WANT to improve the appearance of my thighs and upper arms
    I WANT to be able to do pull ups well
    I WANT to be more powerful and fast on the soccer field

    But it's hard...because I do a ton of cardio, and have no idea how to balance it appropriately with weights. I also don't know how I will build any muscle if I'm eating at a deficit. If I AM eating at a deficit, what kind of strength program should I follow?
    I'm not sure if I should be doing high weight low reps, or vice versa.

    Well let's start with this ....

    Deficit for better muscle definition, less fat, improve appearance....

    Weight lifting to retain the muscle you have.

    You probably won't build muscle but you will keep what you have. To balance cardio and weights do cardio on off days or after lifting.

    I personally have been doing Strong lifts 5x5 for 9 months and switch to 3x5 for the summer and love it. Low reps high weights.

    If you find you are not getting what you want out of lifting slow down on the cardio...if you find you aren't getting out of the cardio what you want slow down on the weight lifting.

    Those general principles, I understand. I just dont quite know where to draw the line. I err on the side of doing too much. With soccer you really need endurance and speed (power / strength). It can be a delicate balance and I feel like Im not balancing it well...at all
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Sidesteal is great...forgot about him.


    I feel like I'm doing dumb things. Like, just because I can doesn't mean I should. I find myself doing 6 sets of 6 reps of 100 lbs on the squat rack and I'm thinking "Should I even be doing this? AND running 5 miles today? AND eating at a deficit?"

    I just dont know like, where to draw the line.

    Find your goal

    Organise your schedule towards meeting that goal

    Be honest about where two or more goals are competing and prioritise them.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    A person with my body type wont see any anabolic activity while eating at a deficit. That's kind of a given.

    But I'm a little concerned about lifting high weight and low reps while eating at a deficit. Should I be? I always thought that you build strength with high weight / low reps and vice versa for endurance. Does it make ANY sense to lift heavy while eating at a deficit? It kind of feels like, given that I'm eating at a deficit, I'm not gonna get ANY stronger. Am I wrong here?

    Does it make any sense to lift heavy if I'm running 25-40 miles per week?
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    A person with my body type wont see any anabolic activity while eating at a deficit. That's kind of a given.

    But I'm a little concerned about lifting high weight and low reps while eating at a deficit. Should I be? I always thought that you build strength with high weight / low reps and vice versa for endurance. Does it make ANY sense to lift heavy while eating at a deficit? It kind of feels like, given that I'm eating at a deficit, I'm not gonna get ANY stronger. Am I wrong here?

    Does it make any sense to lift heavy if I'm running 25-40 miles per week?

    Yes you can lift heavy in a deficit and run.

    But if your primary focus is sports, you should treat yourself like an in-season athlete and lift twice weekly. Keep the volume low, something like 3x5 or even 3x3.

    Make sure you get adequate inter-set rest. So lifting heavy with 4-5 mins between sets. You will get the maximum adaptations but by keeping the volume low you'll have better recovery (which you need if you're playing a sport or running a deficit). I would even advise eating at, or near, maintenance for better recovery and faster strength gains.

    ETA: sleep is vitally important here too. Make sure you get it and plenty of it. Burning this particular candle at both ends leads to injuries, illnesses, bad moods, funky appetite, etc.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    A person with my body type wont see any anabolic activity while eating at a deficit. That's kind of a given.

    But I'm a little concerned about lifting high weight and low reps while eating at a deficit. Should I be? I always thought that you build strength with high weight / low reps and vice versa for endurance. Does it make ANY sense to lift heavy while eating at a deficit? It kind of feels like, given that I'm eating at a deficit, I'm not gonna get ANY stronger. Am I wrong here?

    Does it make any sense to lift heavy if I'm running 25-40 miles per week?

    Yes you can lift heavy in a deficit and run.

    But if your primary focus is sports, you should treat yourself like an in-season athlete and lift twice weekly. Keep the volume low, something like 3x5 or even 3x3.

    Make sure you get adequate inter-set rest. So lifting heavy with 4-5 mins between sets. You will get the maximum adaptations but by keeping the volume low you'll have better recovery (which you need if you're playing a sport or running a deficit). I would even advise eating at, or near, maintenance for better recovery and faster strength gains.

    Wow, I never realized I should be resting 4-5 minutes between sets.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    A person with my body type wont see any anabolic activity while eating at a deficit. That's kind of a given.

    But I'm a little concerned about lifting high weight and low reps while eating at a deficit. Should I be? I always thought that you build strength with high weight / low reps and vice versa for endurance. Does it make ANY sense to lift heavy while eating at a deficit? It kind of feels like, given that I'm eating at a deficit, I'm not gonna get ANY stronger. Am I wrong here?

    Does it make any sense to lift heavy if I'm running 25-40 miles per week?

    Yes you can lift heavy in a deficit and run.

    But if your primary focus is sports, you should treat yourself like an in-season athlete and lift twice weekly. Keep the volume low, something like 3x5 or even 3x3.

    Make sure you get adequate inter-set rest. So lifting heavy with 4-5 mins between sets. You will get the maximum adaptations but by keeping the volume low you'll have better recovery (which you need if you're playing a sport or running a deficit). I would even advise eating at, or near, maintenance for better recovery and faster strength gains.

    Wow, I never realized I should be resting 4-5 minutes between sets.

    If you're going for maximum strength adaptations, 4-5 mins allows for more ATP regeneration for successive sets, better performance in those later sets and therefore better strength adaptations.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    To give you guys an idea, last week was a typical week, and it looked like this:

    Monday - upper body lift, 3 mile run at 7 mph
    Tuesday - abs and back, 3 mile run at 7 mph
    Wednesday - lower body lift, 3 mile bike warm up, 8x400m sprints with 400m jog in between each
    Thursday - 6.5 mile bike
    Friday - Rest
    Saturday - 22 mile bike
    Sunday - 60 minute soccer game

    Everyone is telling me to cut the cardio and eat more. Seems like the general trend, and I can see the logic in that. I do love to run, though.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member

    If you're going for maximum strength adaptations, 4-5 mins allows for more ATP regeneration for successive sets, better performance in those later sets and therefore better strength adaptations.

    Ok, so you think 6 sets of 6 is reasonable? And what is "heavy"? For example, I was squatting 6x6x100lbs before with 60 seconds between sets. I think I could do more with all that rest. Ideas?
  • 212019156
    212019156 Posts: 341 Member
    I'm not super familiar with soccer training, but I am familiar with football. Maybe you need to approach in a similar fashion. Football player change the training up throughout the year. So right after the season is over you train heavy to bulk up and add strength. You do this for a few months. Then as you head towards spring the weights become lighter and the reps get higher with the addition of conditioning. During summer you do lots of conditioning and agility. Rinse and repeat.
    I'm sure high level soccer teams follow some similar form of cyclical training and I am assuming there are programs out there.

    Here is a link to something similar: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/soccer-strength-training.html
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member

    If you're going for maximum strength adaptations, 4-5 mins allows for more ATP regeneration for successive sets, better performance in those later sets and therefore better strength adaptations.

    Ok, so you think 6 sets of 6 is reasonable? And what is "heavy"? For example, I was squatting 6x6x100lbs before with 60 seconds between sets. I think I could do more with all that rest. Ideas?

    With lots of running, some sport and a calorie deficit? Not for me.

    I'm about to go onto a running and lifting rotation and I'll be lifting fullbody 3x3 with 4-5 mins between sets 3 times a week and running 3 times a week. If I was doing more (like playing an additional sport or doing more running) then I'd scale that lifting back to twice a week.

    But this would depend on the individual. Part of going from a beginner lifter to an intermediate and beyond is figuring out this stuff for you specifically. On a beginner almost everything works, because they're a beginner....
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    I'm not super familiar with soccer training, but I am familiar with football. Maybe you need to approach in a similar fashion. Football player change the training up throughout the year. So right after the season is over you train heavy to bulk up and add strength. You do this for a few months. Then as you head towards spring the weights become lighter and the reps get higher with the addition of conditioning. During summer you do lots of conditioning and agility. Rinse and repeat.
    I'm sure high level soccer teams follow some similar form of cyclical training and I am assuming there are programs out there.

    Here is a link to something similar: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/soccer-strength-training.html

    Based on the feedback I've gotten I did just that, and found a good program that Stanford soccer published. I just really hate to give up my longer runs and cycling. That stuff is just really fun for me, but maybe I'll just do it as a treat now and again and try to optimize my sport specific training.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    I'm not super familiar with soccer training, but I am familiar with football. Maybe you need to approach in a similar fashion. Football player change the training up throughout the year. So right after the season is over you train heavy to bulk up and add strength. You do this for a few months. Then as you head towards spring the weights become lighter and the reps get higher with the addition of conditioning. During summer you do lots of conditioning and agility. Rinse and repeat.
    I'm sure high level soccer teams follow some similar form of cyclical training and I am assuming there are programs out there.

    Here is a link to something similar: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/soccer-strength-training.html

    Based on the feedback I've gotten I did just that, and found a good program that Stanford soccer published. I just really hate to give up my longer runs and cycling. That stuff is just really fun for me, but maybe I'll just do it as a treat now and again and try to optimize my sport specific training.

    That sounds like a very sensible approach.

    Just think: if an elite athlete with good coaches, nutritionist, genetic advantage and possibly performancing enhancers needs to scale their strength and other work around their in-season sport, then how much more sensible do us mere mortals without their gifts need to be?
  • 212019156
    212019156 Posts: 341 Member
    Based on your age I am making the assumption that you are playing soccer on a recreational league. If that is the case then I wouldn't get super caught up on a sports specific training cycle. With soccer cardiovascular conditioning is going to be pretty important so long runs and cycling are not going to hurt you.

    I have seen professional male soccer players in person. They sure the heck don't look like they focus a lot of time/energy on weight training, so I'm not sure why it would be much different for a female.

    Jeff
    I'm not super familiar with soccer training, but I am familiar with football. Maybe you need to approach in a similar fashion. Football player change the training up throughout the year. So right after the season is over you train heavy to bulk up and add strength. You do this for a few months. Then as you head towards spring the weights become lighter and the reps get higher with the addition of conditioning. During summer you do lots of conditioning and agility. Rinse and repeat.
    I'm sure high level soccer teams follow some similar form of cyclical training and I am assuming there are programs out there.

    Here is a link to something similar: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/soccer-strength-training.html

    Based on the feedback I've gotten I did just that, and found a good program that Stanford soccer published. I just really hate to give up my longer runs and cycling. That stuff is just really fun for me, but maybe I'll just do it as a treat now and again and try to optimize my sport specific training.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    Based on your age I am making the assumption that you are playing soccer on a recreational league. If that is the case then I wouldn't get super caught up on a sports specific training cycle. With soccer cardiovascular conditioning is going to be pretty important so long runs and cycling are not going to hurt you.

    I played division I in college, and this league, while recreational, is about 80% as competitive - especially being co-ed.
  • 212019156
    212019156 Posts: 341 Member
    Got it. You could probably just mirror the type of training you performed when you played division 1.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    Does it make ANY sense to lift heavy while eating at a deficit? It kind of feels like, given that I'm eating at a deficit, I'm not gonna get ANY stronger. Am I wrong here?

    Does it make any sense to lift heavy if I'm running 25-40 miles per week?
    I'm no expert but I think that the deficit applies to gaining muscle size, not strength. So if you're trying to lose weight and remain strong or gain strength then it makes sense.

    And if you enjoy running and need cardio endurance for soccer, that also makes sense.

    That's a lot of miles, though. Are you overdoing it and that's why you feel like things aren't right?
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member
    Based on your age I am making the assumption that you are playing soccer on a recreational league. If that is the case then I wouldn't get super caught up on a sports specific training cycle. With soccer cardiovascular conditioning is going to be pretty important so long runs and cycling are not going to hurt you.

    I played division I in college, and this league, while recreational, is about 80% as competitive - especially being co-ed.

    I was thinking about that actually. I remember the running drills but nothing about our strength program. It was only 2 days a week and didn't seem all that sophisticated. We didn't do many miles but I was kinda in the same boat them, since I had to get my miles up for military training and tests.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Based on your age I am making the assumption that you are playing soccer on a recreational league. If that is the case then I wouldn't get super caught up on a sports specific training cycle. With soccer cardiovascular conditioning is going to be pretty important so long runs and cycling are not going to hurt you.

    I played division I in college, and this league, while recreational, is about 80% as competitive - especially being co-ed.

    I was thinking about that actually. I remember the running drills but nothing about our strength program. It was only 2 days a week and didn't seem all that sophisticated. We didn't do many miles but I was kinda in the same boat them, since I had to get my miles up for military training and tests.

    Again: 2 days a week of strength work is plenty. Even if you're not an in-season athlete you can make great gains in either muscle or strength by just lifting full body twice a week. Obviously you need to set it up so that it chimes with your sport and your goals.

    Also, define "sophisticated". A small handful of exercises, well chosen and done at an appropriate intensity are all that is required to make you stronger. Too much volume or frequency will just mess up your recovery, eff up your football and leave you overtrained and injured.

    Less truly is more when it comes to training around a sport. You want to enhance and support what you do on the field rather than detract from it.

    NB: for football read soccer.
  • HardcoreP0rk
    HardcoreP0rk Posts: 936 Member

    Also, define "sophisticated". A small handful of exercises, well chosen and done at an appropriate intensity are all that is required to make you stronger. Too much volume or frequency will just mess up your recovery, eff up your football and leave you overtrained and injured.

    I mean, I remember wandering around the weight room with little guidance and goals. They had about 5 personal trainers with our team providing form corrections and answering questions. In my memory it didnt seem all that productive or targeted.

    I'm looking at the standford strength days, and they are interesting. They do a 12 station circuit with 12 reps at each station. They go in a "push, pull, leg" order and repeat. You don't do more than 1 set of anything. 12 stations in a row, and then 5 sets of abs at 20 reps each. I'm wondering if that's a good place to start, and how much weight I should be doing on these stations. If it's only 1 set, I can probably go pretty heavy

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