Shortcut to Size Heavy Lifting Program Questions

StunningLegerity

Hello everyone! I started weight lifting 3 months ago and am looking at doing the following program once mine finishes up in the next 2 weeks:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/docs/2014/stoppani_e-book_revised.pdf

Does anyone have an experience or advice with this program? The nutrition listed seems WAY too high for me. I am currently eating at a deficit and am thinking I should bump up to eating at maintenance for this program? My main goal is to lose fat, so I'm not interested in tacking any muscle on, as I still have plenty of fat to lose. My current goal is to get 100 grams of protein. Do you think 150 grams would be enough once I start this program?

Stats:
F
Height: 5'6
Weight: 149 lbs
Body Fat %: ~31%

Cherimoose

Since your goal is fat loss (not bodybuilding) and you're relatively new to lifting (less than 6 months), i would do full-body workouts 3 times a week, or an upper/lower split twice a week each - not a 4-part split like that program. Also doing 13 sets for a muscle group is overkill. After about 6-7 sets, there's a point of diminishing returns and an increased risk of overuse injuries. Try New Rules of Lifting or Stronglifts.

100 grams of protein should be enough, but more probably isn't harmful.

esanford2

Shortcut to size is a bulking program. However, I don't see how it would hurt if you were to do the program and continue to eat at a deficit and maybe add in a little cardio. If you're looking for a program to follow, I would advise you to find one of the transformation programs instead of a bulking one.

Menix8

Hello everyone! I started weight lifting 3 months ago and am looking at doing the following program once mine finishes up in the next 2 weeks:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/docs/2014/stoppani_e-book_revised.pdf

Does anyone have an experience or advice with this program? The nutrition listed seems WAY too high for me. I am currently eating at a deficit and am thinking I should bump up to eating at maintenance for this program? My main goal is to lose fat, so I'm not interested in tacking any muscle on, as I still have plenty of fat to lose. My current goal is to get 100 grams of protein. Do you think 150 grams would be enough once I start this program?

Stats:
F
Height: 5'6
Weight: 149 lbs
Body Fat %: ~31%

I'm not entirely sure why you'd pick Stoppani's bulking program then? He also has a cutting program on bb.com, Shortcut to Shred, which includes many of the same lifts but incorporates plyometric training and cardio.

Sam_I_Am77

Definitely not a "program" to follow if you're only eating at maintenance at best. I'd be suspicious of this to be honest, it says it's been used with Soccer players but this type of training is less than idea for any team sport athlete. The program only includes partial programming and something better would give you some %'s to work with, at least on the compound lifts.

What are you following now?

StunningLegerity

I am currently following a program that is very similar to Shortcut to Size, with the same splits and everything. I have seen amazing results on this program, in inch loss, strength gains, and fat loss. I have been eating at a deficit for this 12 week program. Shortcut to size adds in a little bit more chest and shoulders, which are areas I'm looking to improve my strength in. I did look into Shortcut to Shred, but did not like that program. It did not hit the muscle groups the way I wanted, I do group classes for my cardio, and I do not have the dedication/desire to be at the gym 6 days a week. I don't see the harm in doing a bulking program while eating at maintenance, but maybe I'm wrong on this? Can someone explain why?

Edit: The reason I was asking about protein for this program, vs my current program, is that this program introduces rest-pause and drop sets which I know are very taxing on the body.

StunningLegerity

Also, not sure where you're getting 13 sets per muscle group, as the most I count for any day is 10 sets. I started strength training on New Rules and got bored with it within a month or two.

Cherimoose

I am currently following a program that is very similar to Shortcut to Size, with the same splits and everything. I have seen amazing results on this program, in inch loss, strength gains, and fat loss. I have been eating at a deficit for this 12 week program.

All programs - even bad programs - produce some short-term improvements with newbies. That's because doing something is better than doing nothing. In your case, your fat loss was from your calorie deficit, not the type of strength program you did.

Also, not sure where you're getting 13 sets per muscle group, as the most I count for any day is 10 sets. I started strength training on New Rules and got bored with it within a month or two.

The first 4 exercises for workouts 1 & 2 work the same muscle group, which adds up to 13 sets. Even 10 sets is overkill. I already explained why. Try Stronglifts if you don't like NROL.

StunningLegerity

I've been eating at a deficit for over a year now, but did not see noticeable fat loss until I started strength training about 3-4 months ago. I'm not trying to be a butt, but I genuinely don't understand where you're getting this 13 sets on the same muscle group from. Workout 1 is chest, triceps, and calves and Workout 2 is back, biceps, and abs.

Cherimoose

Well, strength training does increase one's calorie deficit and improves fat loss. Well all know that. Again, even bad programs burn calories, and so do programs that don't match your goal.

Workout #1 has:

Bench Press
4 x 12-15
Incline Bench Press
3 x 12-15
Incline Dumbbell Flye
3 x 12-15
Cable Crossover
3 x 12-15

That's 13 sets for chest.
Triceps are used heavily on 7 of those sets, eliminating the need to do 9 additional sets of tricep exercises.. at least for someone with your goals & training experience.

Sam_I_Am77

Well, strength training does increase one's calorie deficit and improves fat loss. Well all know that. Again, even bad programs burn calories, and so do programs that don't match your goal.

Workout #1 has:

Bench Press
4 x 12-15
Incline Bench Press
3 x 12-15
Incline Dumbbell Flye
3 x 12-15
Cable Crossover
3 x 12-15

That's 13 sets for chest.
Triceps are used heavily on 7 of those sets, eliminating the need to do 9 additional sets of tricep exercises.. at least for someone with your goals & training experience.

^^^

For comparison... I train 3-days a week and not counting Core work, I use exactly 7 different exercises for the entire week. I change the acute variables but the exercise selection is always the same.

StunningLegerity

So I've been reading a whole bunch of articles, and although there is always conflicting information, the strength gains I'm seeing are due to "newbie gains" as suggested. From what I've found, it varies from person to person on how long one can expect to see these, but anecdotal accounts suggest around 6 months. I've also read that it's difficult to over train when you get enough rest, which I do. I haven't had any symptoms of over training or anything like that. Seeing as I'm in no rush in terms of body composition, what if I switch to a slight surplus, stick with this program (while watching for signs of over training), most likely put on a little bit of fat, but hopefully tack on some muscle and ride out my "newbie gains" for as long as possible? Once the program ends or my "newbie gains" run their course, I'll switch to a less intense program and incorporate cardio and a deficit to lose fat again. The less intense lifting program should allow me to maintain gained muscle (which won't be much anyway) I feel like I should tack on muscle while I can during this period but it makes me nervous to be at a surplus, as I have a very high body fat % still.

Sam_I_Am77

So I've been reading a whole bunch of articles, and although there is always conflicting information, the strength gains I'm seeing are due to "newbie gains" as suggested. From what I've found, it varies from person to person on how long one can expect to see these, but anecdotal accounts suggest around 6 months. I've also read that it's difficult to over train when you get enough rest, which I do. I haven't had any symptoms of over training or anything like that. Seeing as I'm in no rush in terms of body composition, what if I switch to a slight surplus, stick with this program (while watching for signs of over training), most likely put on a little bit of fat, but hopefully tack on some muscle and ride out my "newbie gains" for as long as possible? Once the program ends or my "newbie gains" run their course, I'll switch to a less intense program and incorporate cardio and a deficit to lose fat again. The less intense lifting program should allow me to maintain gained muscle (which won't be much anyway) I feel like I should tack on muscle while I can during this period but it makes me nervous to be at a surplus, as I have a very high body fat % still.

"Newb" gains is likely closer to 12 weeks but definitely varies by individual. If this is what you like then do it, but you should definitely eat more if not a surplus like this. I don't know why you think you need to train this way to put on some muscle but there's nothing wrong with it; I would just think there are better ways. I will admit though that I am more of a minimalist when it comes to most things, including strength training. It's just in my experience that works for me and many other people that I talk with frequently. To each their own.

StunningLegerity

I definitely appreciate everyone's input! Sorry if it seems I'm being difficult. I know I don't necessarily need to train this intensely or in this style, but I guess I just really want to. I absolutely love the program I'm following now (which is similar as I said) and it really caused me to fall in love with heavy lifting and being in the gym. I know the muscles and strength I'm seeing is because I'm new to this, but that's fine by me. I see progress every week still and I'm falling in love with my body, even though it's not perfect. I love pushing my body (sensibly and allowing for rest) and my mind every set. Eventually, it will probably catch up with me, but when that day comes, I'll handle it then. For now, I'd like to stick close to where I am, but bump it up just a little more :happy:

Sam_I_Am77

I definitely appreciate everyone's input! Sorry if it seems I'm being difficult. I know I don't necessarily need to train this intensely or in this style, but I guess I just really want to. I absolutely love the program I'm following now (which is similar as I said) and it really caused me to fall in love with heavy lifting and being in the gym. I know the muscles and strength I'm seeing is because I'm new to this, but that's fine by me. I see progress every week still and I'm falling in love with my body, even though it's not perfect. I love pushing my body (sensibly and allowing for rest) and my mind every set. Eventually, it will probably catch up with me, but when that day comes, I'll handle it then. For now, I'd like to stick close to where I am, but bump it up just a little more :happy:

Summer is just about over anyway, time to bulk.