He didnt gain the weight back after crash diet
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It's hard to say, not enough info here. Maybe he's one of the lucky people that fall into the 10% of the population that can have extreme weight loss and not gain it back, or perhaps it just hasn't happened yet. Who knows, hopefully it works for him and he can maintain the loss.0
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He apparently has enough to enjoy his running habit and to live his life how he chooses.
This guy lost almost a pound a day for 18 months and seems to still have enough muscle.Think of all the LBM lost...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1331554-how-i-lost-391lbs-in-18-months-with-youtube-video?hl=youtube&page=1
He worked hard and is much healthier but I don't see any noticeable muscle.
If someone believes they can preserve LBM by using shallow deficits, that's terrific. But telling others they have to believe the same and do the same is a whole other thing. There is as much evidence refuting it as supporting it. And goals differ.
No one said anyone has to preserve LBM, they just stated that a diet of that type would not preserve LBM. You are reading far more into this topic and the responses to it than actually exists.0 -
At some point he also was only 44 lbs. overweight.
He was super morbidly obese. It's a totally different scenario. When the body has that much excess fat, it would have no reason to want to use muscle for fuel. Incredible story though.
This guy lost almost a pound a day for 18 months and seems to still have enough muscle.Think of all the LBM lost...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1331554-how-i-lost-391lbs-in-18-months-with-youtube-video?hl=youtube&page=1
He did use muscle for fuel. We all do. You don't need as much muscle at lower weights. You don't need as much anything, including blood volume.
You really shouldn't drag someone's success story into a discussion like this, particularly someone who isn't focused on strength training but instead is focused on cardio. Focusing only on cardio while losing weight is going to cause you to lose additional lean body mass, versus someone who concentrates on resistance training, but bringing in a particular person's weight loss success is just likely to make this discussion personal and for no good reason.
And this. If you didn't have his permission, that was a pretty discourteous thing to do.0 -
You don't need much muscle mass at all to enjoy running. That's not the point of this discussion. We stated a crash diet with almost no protein would cause greater muscle losses then a moderate deficit where protein was consumed. There isn't any research to refute that. The person's story you posted doesn't refute that, actually it proves the point we made. Whether someone cares about muscle loss or not is a totally separate issue.
He apparently has enough to enjoy his running habit and to live his life how he chooses.
This guy lost almost a pound a day for 18 months and seems to still have enough muscle.Think of all the LBM lost...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1331554-how-i-lost-391lbs-in-18-months-with-youtube-video?hl=youtube&page=1
He worked hard and is much healthier but I don't see any noticeable muscle.
If someone believes they can preserve LBM by using shallow deficits, that's terrific. But telling others they have to believe the same and do the same is a whole other thing. There is as much evidence refuting it as supporting it. And goals differ.0 -
There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.0 -
He apparently has enough to enjoy his running habit and to live his life how he chooses.
This guy lost almost a pound a day for 18 months and seems to still have enough muscle.Think of all the LBM lost...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1331554-how-i-lost-391lbs-in-18-months-with-youtube-video?hl=youtube&page=1
He worked hard and is much healthier but I don't see any noticeable muscle.
If someone believes they can preserve LBM by using shallow deficits, that's terrific. But telling others they have to believe the same and do the same is a whole other thing. There is as much evidence refuting it as supporting it. And goals differ.
Meh. to each his own. I congratulate him in his efforts, but it is not the look I would want on my body. Nobody said you had to do the same. Most people here got fat from eating too much....The only thing that REALLY affects metabolism/BMR is lean mass......If you lose a significant amount trying to shed weight quickly it is nearly impossible to get it back......without adding the fat back as well. Most people would like to eat more. If you are OK just being very lean and not eating much by all means go for it.....Nobody is telling you you can't.0 -
or because they got used to eating so little that eating at maintenance was easier for them, or it could be for any other reasonThere is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
i dont necessarily disagree with you but that study doesnt prove anything about conserving LBM
and the post you mentioned before was about a guy who was 600+ lbs starting out, not exactly a typical case0 -
There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
Great. So how many people are able to remain on deeper deficits till goal and how much attrition is there from that type of crash diet? That wasn't discussed in that study and would be a pretty factor for the general population to be aware of. I can't even count how many massive deficit diets I did over the years but I could NEVER stick with them to goal weights, only dipping into a healthy weight range once (which I did not maintain). Perhaps people that are capable of maintaining those sorts of deficits long term are simply more physiologically hardened to maintaining. Your study only provides a small fraction of a much larger spectrum.0 -
Well, since we have nothing to go on but your completely unscientific and information starved story, this question cannot be intelligently answered.
/end thread
^^ This is the first response and best tho' I'm sure this will be a million page thread. It in fact could have ended with the very first response. lol.0 -
The study did not track lean body mass at all so you are speculating on it having anything to do with muscle retention.There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.0 -
There was a paper floating around a while back that showed about 1 in 4 dieters, using reasonable deficits and regular resistance training, still lost a great deal of LBM. There is a large genetic component in all this - many people can retain LBM with largish deficits and minimal resistance training, many others will have trouble retaining LBM even with shallower deficits and regular resistance training.
You aren't going to find a one size fits all answer. The important thing is to pay attention to how your own body responds, and adjust accordingly.
A little less zealotry would be helpful, too. Some of y'all sound like you're ready to strap on a bomb vest....0 -
There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
Are you fighting this strongly because this is how you are planning on losing your weight and aren't getting the support you need? What is it about this particular thread that is resonating so closely to you?
ETA:
As for my take on this thread? I have a measure of disbelief. If he wasn't morbidly obese, and rather only had about 45-60 ish pounds to lose, then it would be INCREDIBLY hard to lose that much weight in that short of time without incredibly ridiculous and potentially dangerous eating habits.
Why would we want to emulate this method? He may LOOK fine, but you have no idea what has been (and is still) going on in his body.
Our body is all we have... we abuse it by overfeeding and underexercising, and then abuse it some more by starvation diets and fad exercise programs.
Take your time, change your habits in a healthy way... and try not to kill your body in the process0 -
Think of all the LBM lost...
+10 -
There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
That study compares people who lost a lot of weight on a VLED with people who lost a smaller amount of weight on an HBD. The greater amount of weight lost on the VLED could very well be the driving factor, rather than the calorie deficit used to lose weight in the first place. In short, I don't think the study says what you want it to say nor do I think it really supports your position in this thread. Now, if they compared the success rates of people who lost X weight on a VLED vs. people who lost X weight on a HBD, there could well be something to it. But that's not really what they're comparing.
All that said, I think people tend to overexaggerate the consequences of crash diets and aggressive caloric deficits. They can be done in such a way that minimizes any negative repercussions and then your behavior after the diet is what controls weight regain, not the diet itself. But discouraging them is probably a good thing, as most people in my experience who follow these diets on their own tend to do them "incorrectly" and they simply aren't needed for weight loss.0 -
yes.There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
Are you fighting this strongly because this is how you are planning on losing your weight and aren't getting the support you need? What is it about this particular thread that is resonating so closely to you?
ETA:
As for my take on this thread? I have a measure of disbelief. If he wasn't morbidly obese, and rather only had about 45-60 ish pounds to lose, then it would be INCREDIBLY hard to lose that much weight in that short of time without incredibly ridiculous and potentially dangerous eating habits.
Why would we want to emulate this method? He may LOOK fine, but you have no idea what has been (and is still) going on in his body.
Our body is all we have... we abuse it by overfeeding and underexercising, and then abuse it some more by starvation diets and fad exercise programs.
Take your time, change your habits in a healthy way... and try not to kill your body in the process0 -
There's basically no way he lost 44 pounds in a month on diet alone. Presuming for the sake of argument it was all fat, that's a 5,000 calorie a day deficit, with any food calories added to the amount to burn.
He was either gargantuan beyond all reason, he did cardio for hours and hours a day, the story isn't true, or some combination thereof.0 -
There's basically no way he lost 44 pounds in a month on diet alone. Presuming for the sake of argument it was all fat, that's a 5,000 calorie a day deficit, with any food calories added to the amount to burn.
He was either gargantuan beyond all reason, he did cardio for hours and hours a day, the story isn't true, or some combination thereof.
This:happy:0 -
There's basically no way he lost 44 pounds in a month on diet alone. Presuming for the sake of argument it was all fat, that's a 5,000 calorie a day deficit, with any food calories added to the amount to burn.
He was either gargantuan beyond all reason, he did cardio for hours and hours a day, the story isn't true, or some combination thereof.
can you even imagine the exhaustion and hangry-ness???
He must have been a joy at parties!0 -
There's basically no way he lost 44 pounds in a month on diet alone. Presuming for the sake of argument it was all fat, that's a 5,000 calorie a day deficit, with any food calories added to the amount to burn.
He was either gargantuan beyond all reason, he did cardio for hours and hours a day, the story isn't true, or some combination thereof.
can you even imagine the exhaustion and hangry-ness???
He must have been a joy at parties!
Can you imagine the loose skin to 44 pounds loss in 31 days if the longer month?0 -
There's basically no way he lost 44 pounds in a month on diet alone. Presuming for the sake of argument it was all fat, that's a 5,000 calorie a day deficit, with any food calories added to the amount to burn.
He was either gargantuan beyond all reason, he did cardio for hours and hours a day, the story isn't true, or some combination thereof.
can you even imagine the exhaustion and hangry-ness???
He must have been a joy at parties!
Can you imagine the loose skin to 44 pounds loss in 31 days if the longer month?
The whole thing just kinda saddens me.
Something tells me that our OPs friend didn't give much thought to balanced nutrition while doing this.0 -
At some point he also was only 44 lbs. overweight.
He was super morbidly obese. It's a totally different scenario. When the body has that much excess fat, it would have no reason to want to use muscle for fuel. Incredible story though.
This guy lost almost a pound a day for 18 months and seems to still have enough muscle.Think of all the LBM lost...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1331554-how-i-lost-391lbs-in-18-months-with-youtube-video?hl=youtube&page=1
He did use muscle for fuel. We all do. You don't need as much muscle at lower weights. You don't need as much anything, including blood volume.
You really shouldn't drag someone's success story into a discussion like this, particularly someone who isn't focused on strength training but instead is focused on cardio. Focusing only on cardio while losing weight is going to cause you to lose additional lean body mass, versus someone who concentrates on resistance training, but bringing in a particular person's weight loss success is just likely to make this discussion personal and for no good reason.
QFT0 -
In...
...to see if MFP is changing its stance on crash diets.0 -
Where in this thread is this happening?Some people around here sometimes get caught up on thinking their way is THE ONLY WAY and that if someone else doesn't do it their way, it cannot work. Like if others don't do it the One True Way, they must be doomed, lol.
There are lots of ways to lose. Everyone has to find the way that works for them.
Answer: it's not.0 -
Sounds like he went vegan0
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Here's what I'm reading into it: "A diet of that type would not preserve LBM." That is what you assume is correct but isn't really supported with science all that well.No one said anyone has to preserve LBM, they just stated that a diet of that type would not preserve LBM. You are reading far more into this topic and the responses to it than actually exists.
As for discourteous to link an MFP thread in an MFP thread, you've got to be kidding me. Want me to PM him for his permission? I'm pretty sure if he's still around he'd probably pop in and tell you his LBM is just fine and he posted his story for it to be read.0 -
The issue here is that science DOES support the claim that a diet rich in protein, that has a moderate caloric deficit will help maintain lean mass. The study you posted DID NOT TALK ABOUT LEAN MASS.
Here's what I'm reading into it: "A diet of that type would not preserve LBM." That is what you assume is correct but isn't really supported with science all that well.No one said anyone has to preserve LBM, they just stated that a diet of that type would not preserve LBM. You are reading far more into this topic and the responses to it than actually exists.
As for discourteous to link an MFP thread in an MFP thread, you've got to be kidding me. Want me to PM him for his permission? I'm pretty sure if he's still around he'd probably pop in and tell you his LBM is just fine and he posted his story for it to be read.
Just a quick goggling yielded MANY studies showing increased protein intake supporting lean mass retention. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23200926 population was post gastric bypass/sleeve surgery.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027 population was athletes.0 -
We don't even know what his protein intake was. Why are we googling protein intake?
You'd think if 'loss of lean body mass' was a common side effect of VLCD, it'd be listed here as one.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/low-calorie-diets
"What Are the Side Effects of Very Low-Calorie Diets?
People on a very low-calorie diet for 4 to 16 weeks report minor side effects such as fatigue, constipation, nausea, and diarrhea. These conditions usually improve within a few weeks and rarely prevent people from completing the program.
Gallstones are most common serious side effect seen with very low-calorie diets. Gallstones are more common during rapid weight loss. It’s unclear whether very low-calorie diets directly cause gallstones or whether the amount of weight loss is responsible for them."0 -
Here's what I'm reading into it: "A diet of that type would not preserve LBM." That is what you assume is correct but isn't really supported with science all that well.No one said anyone has to preserve LBM, they just stated that a diet of that type would not preserve LBM. You are reading far more into this topic and the responses to it than actually exists.
As for discourteous to link an MFP thread in an MFP thread, you've got to be kidding me. Want me to PM him for his permission? I'm pretty sure if he's still around he'd probably pop in and tell you his LBM is just fine and he posted his story for it to be read.
Oh please, you aren't just linking to another thread. You're using a particular person's weight loss and physique to try and prove a point. I say it's discourteous because you're taking a specific example of someone that should be praised for his weight loss success and overall transformation using him as an example of someone with significant LBM, when he doesn't focus on LBM and focuses on endurance activities (I'll give you a hint though - endurance athletes aren't particularly known for having a lot of LBM). For one, you don't have a clue about his LBM and there's no good way to precisely gauge from his pictures, but for any of us who disagree with you regarding whether he's a good example of someone who has significant LBM, we come across as personally attacking him and criticizing his physique by trying to disprove your example. That's why I say it's discourteous - you're opening him up to criticism regarding his size and body composition when he has and probably wants nothing to do with this thread. Either that, or people have to simply be silent out of respect for him, even if they disagree with you. And putting all that aside, anecdotal n=1 examples are a horrible way to prove a point in the first place. I don't really understand how you can go from citing a study and then turn around and rely on anecdotal evidence of one person's physique.
But getting back to the question of maintaining weight loss after a crash diet... we probably agree more on that topic than my reply here is letting on. I would just try to keep it focused on the evidence and what the experts are saying. For instance, PSMFs exist primarily to provide a highly aggressive, LBM-sparing diet, and studies that have looked at the threshold at which your body begins using LBM for energy have concluded that threshold is related to the amount of fat your body stores and is generally much higher than most people think. That certainly doesn't mean everyone should run out and follow Lyle's RFLD, but only that it's possible to "crash diet" at least for some amount of time without losing significant LBM and without regaining it all later. Possible and a "good idea" are different things though.0 -
This thread was about someone losing on a crash diet and not gaining back. His story was about that. I didn't say anything about his body except that he appears to be functional and healthy since he's an avid runner. If people decided to point to him as an example of an undesirable body type, that's their own rudeness and a change of subject.
I PMed him. Maybe he'll show up. His post count is low, I suspect he doesn't hang out here much.0 -
No, I have about 10 lbs to lose and I use a deficit around 500 calories, usually.
Are you fighting this strongly because this is how you are planning on losing your weight and aren't getting the support you need? What is it about this particular thread that is resonating so closely to you?There is a lot of evidence that deeper deficits lead to better maintenance.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
That isn't what you'd expect to find if they burned up more LBM.
I'm not promoting VLCDs. I'm promoting the stop of spreading misinformation about lean body mass retention.0
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