1,200 - but what if you're eating good food?

Kalikel

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

As far as weight loss goes, they're right. You can and will lose weight on a calorie deficit, even if all you eat is pizza and ice cream. You can eat a lot more food if it's healthy food, though.

Many people suggest that making junk food 1/5 of your diet is the best plan.

You should ask your doctor.

Than decide what you want.

Who's most? :huh:

The ones who routinely say that there is no good or bad food. Most threads end up with a majority of people falling into that category. Often, they will actually deny that junk food exists. No such thing.

Deluxe pizza is more healthy than baked chicken breast - that sort of thing.

In for the hyperbole.

Scoot over!

Make room for me!
A piece or two of deluxe pizza will, in all likelihood, provide more nutrition than a chicken breast would. Neither is bad, or good, or better or whatever.

This is probably my favorite post ever.

Here, she makes fun of me for saying that so may MFP posters fail to differentiate between good and bad food, but claim that there is no difference. Then she proceeds to say "Neither is bad, or good, or better or whatever."

BigT555

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

said noone ever. ill admit that the "there is no good or bad food" mentality here is a little much, but i have yet to hear that all food is the same. in terms of weight loss perhaps yes, but not for health

plus, that thread suggested that pizza is potentially healthier than chicken breat because there is no one set recipe for pizza, you could make it out of basically anything. and if it is deluxe, its going to have a reasonable micronutrient profile, while having a better split of macros than chicken, which is just protein and some fat

you should probably ask your doctor about it though

k8blujay2

Here's the chicken vs. pizza thread for those who missed it last week: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1394222-be-smart-don-t-fall-for-fads-and-scams

It's not that there's no difference between spinach and potato chips or pizza and chicken breast, but that they can all be part of a healthy diet when you look at the whole picture. Context matters. A diet of only spinach would leave you deficient in various nutrients just as a diet of only potato chips would. It's the overall diet that matters, not the individual foods that make it up.

OOoohh. I remember that one... I think I commented early on... so I missed the chicken vs pizza debate... But yes, I agree that it's all about context.

Kalikel

The pizza vs. chicken hypothetical (the chicken was not specified as "baked" or even "roasted" (which is how I normally cook my chicken), nor was it specified as breast) is from a recent thread. Not that any of that matters--it might shock and horrify Kalikel, but it's also perfectly possible to think that a roasted skin on, bone in thigh or leg is healthier in a particular context than a skinless, boneless breast, however cooked.

With respect to the pizza, the point was made that how healthy a particular food is depends on the overall diet and what else is eaten, and there are contexts in which pizza (which had been identified as some kind of "cheat" food)--and in particular, homemade pizza--would be preferable from a health context than chicken.

One obvious such example is when your diet is lower than you like on vegetables or carbs.

This is not super complicated.

It also obviously does not support the claim made about most people in this thread. Indeed, the point in part was that there ARE differences between chicken and deluxe pizza (deluxe pizza contains all three macros and vegetables, by definition) and that which was preferable depends on what you are looking for. If low on protein, high on carbs, go with the chicken. If low on vegetables and fiber, a pizza on a whole wheat crust with lots of vegetables might well be a better bet.

I get that everyone understands this, but since I remember the other thread, figured I'd give the background.

Edit: I see that was already covered more than adequately!

The context got changed and added later. I stand corrected on the "baked." She was arguing that pizza was as good as lean chicken. I just bake mine. Mea culpa.

Her point was that all food is the same, there is no difference, it's all a matter of calories.

Yes, it's all a matter of calories for weight loss, but that doesn't make peanut butter the equal of peas.

I'll be very pleased if you are right and we never, ever see another person argue that one food isn't better for you than another.

AliceDark

The pizza vs. chicken hypothetical (the chicken was not specified as "baked" or even "roasted" (which is how I normally cook my chicken), nor was it specified as breast) is from a recent thread. Not that any of that matters--it might shock and horrify Kalikel, but it's also perfectly possible to think that a roasted skin on, bone in thigh or leg is healthier in a particular context than a skinless, boneless breast, however cooked.

With respect to the pizza, the point was made that how healthy a particular food is depends on the overall diet and what else is eaten, and there are contexts in which pizza (which had been identified as some kind of "cheat" food)--and in particular, homemade pizza--would be preferable from a health context than chicken.

One obvious such example is when your diet is lower than you like on vegetables or carbs.

This is not super complicated.

It also obviously does not support the claim made about most people in this thread. Indeed, the point in part was that there ARE differences between chicken and deluxe pizza (deluxe pizza contains all three macros and vegetables, by definition) and that which was preferable depends on what you are looking for. If low on protein, high on carbs, go with the chicken. If low on vegetables and fiber, a pizza on a whole wheat crust with lots of vegetables might well be a better bet.

I get that everyone understands this, but since I remember the other thread, figured I'd give the background.

Edit: I see that was already covered more than adequately!

The context got changed and added later. I stand corrected on the "baked." She was arguing that pizza was as good as lean chicken. I just bake mine. Mea culpa.

Her point was that all food is the same, there is no difference, it's all a matter of calories.

Yes, it's all a matter of calories for weight loss, but that doesn't make peanut butter the equal of peas.

I'll be very pleased if you are right and we never, ever see another person argue that one food isn't better for you than another.

The point you are ignoring is that determining whether one food is better for you than another is highly dependent on context. "Better" doesn't have an objective meaning that is consistently true for everyone in every situation. If you are talking to an overweight diabetic, the definition of "better" or "healthier" is different than if you are talking to a recovering anorexic.

Kalikel

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

said noone ever. ill admit that the "there is no good or bad food" mentality here is a little much, but i have yet to hear that all food is the same. in terms of weight loss perhaps yes, but not for health

plus, that thread suggested that pizza is potentially healthier than chicken breat because there is no one set recipe for pizza, you could make it out of basically anything. and if it is deluxe, its going to have a reasonable micronutrient profile, while having a better split of macros than chicken, which is just protein and some fat

you should probably ask your doctor about it though

Make fun all you want, but I will continue to suggest people ask their doctors and see a doctor before starting their weight loss journey.

I'd bet my life that somewhere in the MFP stuff, it will tell you that nothing here should be substituted for actual, medical advice.

Seeing the doctor is the smart thing to do.

Kalikel

The pizza vs. chicken hypothetical (the chicken was not specified as "baked" or even "roasted" (which is how I normally cook my chicken), nor was it specified as breast) is from a recent thread. Not that any of that matters--it might shock and horrify Kalikel, but it's also perfectly possible to think that a roasted skin on, bone in thigh or leg is healthier in a particular context than a skinless, boneless breast, however cooked.

With respect to the pizza, the point was made that how healthy a particular food is depends on the overall diet and what else is eaten, and there are contexts in which pizza (which had been identified as some kind of "cheat" food)--and in particular, homemade pizza--would be preferable from a health context than chicken.

One obvious such example is when your diet is lower than you like on vegetables or carbs.

This is not super complicated.

It also obviously does not support the claim made about most people in this thread. Indeed, the point in part was that there ARE differences between chicken and deluxe pizza (deluxe pizza contains all three macros and vegetables, by definition) and that which was preferable depends on what you are looking for. If low on protein, high on carbs, go with the chicken. If low on vegetables and fiber, a pizza on a whole wheat crust with lots of vegetables might well be a better bet.

I get that everyone understands this, but since I remember the other thread, figured I'd give the background.

Edit: I see that was already covered more than adequately!

The context got changed and added later. I stand corrected on the "baked." She was arguing that pizza was as good as lean chicken. I just bake mine. Mea culpa.

Her point was that all food is the same, there is no difference, it's all a matter of calories.

Yes, it's all a matter of calories for weight loss, but that doesn't make peanut butter the equal of peas.

I'll be very pleased if you are right and we never, ever see another person argue that one food isn't better for you than another.

The point you are ignoring is that determining whether one food is better for you than another is highly dependent on context. "Better" doesn't have an objective meaning that is consistently true for everyone in every situation. If you are talking to an overweight diabetic, the definition of "better" or "healthier" is different than if you are talking to a recovering anorexic.

Good. Excellent.

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

juggernaut1974

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

I'm pretty sure you'll continue to see the same posts that you've seen and misinterpreted, misconstrued, and misrepresented in this thread.

There are no foods that are INHERENTLY (ie - in and of themselves) good or bad. That is what MOST MFP posters say. Not that completely false line you started this argument with.

"Pizza is bad" is not necessarily a correct statement. "Carrots are good" is not necessarily a correct statement.

You're welcome for the clarification.

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach.

No one - certainly not "Most MFP posters" - has ever said this.

CyberEd312

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

said noone ever. ill admit that the "there is no good or bad food" mentality here is a little much, but i have yet to hear that all food is the same. in terms of weight loss perhaps yes, but not for health

plus, that thread suggested that pizza is potentially healthier than chicken breat because there is no one set recipe for pizza, you could make it out of basically anything. and if it is deluxe, its going to have a reasonable micronutrient profile, while having a better split of macros than chicken, which is just protein and some fat

you should probably ask your doctor about it though

Make fun all you want, but it will continue to suggest people ask their doctors and see a doctor before starting their weight loss journey.

I'd bet my life that somewhere in the MFP stuff, it will tell you that nothing here should be substituted for actual, medical advice.

Seeing the doctor is the smart thing to do.

For underlying health issue and getting an overall check up before starting on your weight loss journey I would agree with you but most physician should be the first to tell you that they have very minimal training in nutrition and weight loss. I crawled into my new doctors office at 560 lbs. back in 2009 (never had a doctor for well over a decade), young guy maybe 28-30 and up on all the latest of the greatest in modern medicine and the first words out of his mouth was I am going to send you to a dietician and will work with her/him on your journey. If you have a cold or a medical issue then I am your guy but I know just enough about diet/weight loss to be dangerous and I would rather you get the best help possible in that regards... So I have to disagree to an extent, it comes back down to context even here.... Best of Luck

Kalikel

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

I'm pretty sure you'll continue to see the same posts that you've seen and misinterpreted, misconstrued, and misrepresented in this thread.

There are no foods that are INHERENTLY (ie - in and of themselves) good or bad. That is what MOST MFP posters say. Not that completely false line you started this argument with.

"Pizza is bad" is not necessarily a correct statement. "Carrots are good" is not necessarily a correct statement.

You're welcome for the clarification.

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach.

No one - certainly not "Most MFP posters" - has ever said this.

I will be delighted when I no longer people saying, "Donuts and ice cream aren't bad for you! There are no bad foods! There are no good foods, It's just a matter of calories!"

AliceDark

The point you are ignoring is that determining whether one food is better for you than another is highly dependent on context. "Better" doesn't have an objective meaning that is consistently true for everyone in every situation. If you are talking to an overweight diabetic, the definition of "better" or "healthier" is different than if you are talking to a recovering anorexic.

Good. Excellent.

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

Just to clarify -- there are no objectively good or bad foods, everything is fine in moderation (unless you have an underlying medical condition), what is healthy for you may very well be detrimental to me, and I'm having pizza for dinner tonight.

Kalikel

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

said noone ever. ill admit that the "there is no good or bad food" mentality here is a little much, but i have yet to hear that all food is the same. in terms of weight loss perhaps yes, but not for health

plus, that thread suggested that pizza is potentially healthier than chicken breat because there is no one set recipe for pizza, you could make it out of basically anything. and if it is deluxe, its going to have a reasonable micronutrient profile, while having a better split of macros than chicken, which is just protein and some fat

you should probably ask your doctor about it though

Make fun all you want, but it will continue to suggest people ask their doctors and see a doctor before starting their weight loss journey.

I'd bet my life that somewhere in the MFP stuff, it will tell you that nothing here should be substituted for actual, medical advice.

Seeing the doctor is the smart thing to do.

For underlying health issue and getting an overall check up before starting on your weight loss journey I would agree with you but most physician should be the first to tell you that they have very minimal training in nutrition and weight loss. I crawled into my new doctors office at 560 lbs. back in 2009 (never had a doctor for well over a decade), young guy maybe 28-30 and up on all the latest of the greatest in modern medicine and the first words out of his mouth was I am going to send you to a dietician and will work with her/him on your journey. If you have a cold or a medical issue then I am your guy but I know just enough about diet/weight loss to be dangerous and I would rather you get the best help possible in that regards... So I have to disagree to an extent, it comes back down to context even here.... Best of Luck

All doctors can determine if you have special needs, because of a medical issue. Then, if they think you need it, they'll send you to a dietician. But the doctor is the place to start, because the dietician can't figure out if you have any special medical issues.

Taking your advice from me or any other yahoo on the Internet is stupid and could hurt you in the long run.

I will continue to suggest visiting or calling the doctor. If people are personally offended by it,that's just too bad.

juggernaut1974

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

I'm pretty sure you'll continue to see the same posts that you've seen and misinterpreted, misconstrued, and misrepresented in this thread.

There are no foods that are INHERENTLY (ie - in and of themselves) good or bad. That is what MOST MFP posters say. Not that completely false line you started this argument with.

"Pizza is bad" is not necessarily a correct statement. "Carrots are good" is not necessarily a correct statement.

You're welcome for the clarification.

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach.

No one - certainly not "Most MFP posters" - has ever said this.

I will be delighted when I no longer people saying, "Donuts and ice cream aren't bad for you! There are no bad foods! There are no good foods, It's just a matter of calories!"

Then I suspect you'll die of boredom waiting. I suggest going out and living a full life instead of waiting for people to stop saying things that are true.

That being said - none of those statements comes anywhere in the same ballpark of meaning as "There isn't any difference between spinach and potato chips".

Iron_Feline

Most MFP posters don't think that there is any difference between potato chips and spinach. Nothing is good or bad. The other day someone was arguing that deluxe pizza is probably more healthy than baked chicken breast.

said noone ever. ill admit that the "there is no good or bad food" mentality here is a little much, but i have yet to hear that all food is the same. in terms of weight loss perhaps yes, but not for health

plus, that thread suggested that pizza is potentially healthier than chicken breat because there is no one set recipe for pizza, you could make it out of basically anything. and if it is deluxe, its going to have a reasonable micronutrient profile, while having a better split of macros than chicken, which is just protein and some fat

you should probably ask your doctor about it though

Make fun all you want, but it will continue to suggest people ask their doctors and see a doctor before starting their weight loss journey.

I'd bet my life that somewhere in the MFP stuff, it will tell you that nothing here should be substituted for actual, medical advice.

Seeing the doctor is the smart thing to do.

For underlying health issue and getting an overall check up before starting on your weight loss journey I would agree with you but most physician should be the first to tell you that they have very minimal training in nutrition and weight loss. I crawled into my new doctors office at 560 lbs. back in 2009 (never had a doctor for well over a decade), young guy maybe 28-30 and up on all the latest of the greatest in modern medicine and the first words out of his mouth was I am going to send you to a dietician and will work with her/him on your journey. If you have a cold or a medical issue then I am your guy but I know just enough about diet/weight loss to be dangerous and I would rather you get the best help possible in that regards... So I have to disagree to an extent, it comes back down to context even here.... Best of Luck

All doctors can determine if you have special needs, because of a medical issue. Then, if they think you need it, they'll send you to a dietician. But the doctor is the place to start, because the dietician can't figure out if you have any special medical issues.

Taking your advice from me or any other yahoo on the Internet is stupid and could hurt you in the long run.

I will continue to suggest visiting or calling the doctor. If people are personally offended by it,that's just too bad.

If that is all you ever going to contribute to a thread (well apart from ridiculous comments about spinach and chips) you are going to win the most pointless MFP member ever. That is written on the user agreement and appears in various places on the site.

EDIT: I can see it under my post!!!!!


"Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy."

Kalikel

The point you are ignoring is that determining whether one food is better for you than another is highly dependent on context. "Better" doesn't have an objective meaning that is consistently true for everyone in every situation. If you are talking to an overweight diabetic, the definition of "better" or "healthier" is different than if you are talking to a recovering anorexic.

Good. Excellent.

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

Just to clarify -- there are no objectively good or bad foods, everything is fine in moderation (unless you have an underlying medical condition), what is healthy for you may very well be detrimental to me, and I'm having pizza for dinner tonight.

Really?

If someone put potato chips on one table and spinach on the other and said, "Point to the one that is bad for you," you would have a hard time with that? You'd say, "There are no bad foods! I can't pick!"

Or would you point to the chips, knowing that they are not good for you?

Why are you telling me what you're eating for dinner?

Iron_Feline

The point you are ignoring is that determining whether one food is better for you than another is highly dependent on context. "Better" doesn't have an objective meaning that is consistently true for everyone in every situation. If you are talking to an overweight diabetic, the definition of "better" or "healthier" is different than if you are talking to a recovering anorexic.

Good. Excellent.

Glad I won't be seeing any more posts suggesting that there are no good and bad foods, that healthy is the focus, but that has to be based on the individual's particular dietary needs.

Wonderful.

Just to clarify -- there are no objectively good or bad foods, everything is fine in moderation (unless you have an underlying medical condition), what is healthy for you may very well be detrimental to me, and I'm having pizza for dinner tonight.

Really?

If someone put potato chips on one table and spinach on the other and said, "Point to the one that is bad for you," you would have a hard time with that? You'd say, "There are no bad foods! I can't pick!"

Or would you point to the chips, knowing that they are not good for you?

Why are you telling me what you're eating for dinner?

Neither is bad for you.

Sigh - you'll never get it as you have a good/bad mindset.

Move on.

randomtai

Now I want chips and spinach dip...