Not much progress with body recomposition?
epadmeister
Posts: 102 Member
Strength training lovelies, I need your help.
The good news is, I got to my GW of 55kgs almost two months ago :drinker:
The "egh" news is, I went on holiday for 2 1/2 weeks and ate at a surplus for a while! As soon as I got back I got myself back on track and back at my goal weight :bigsmile:
The bad news is, I started a strength training routine and I feel like I've not progressed in the last 4 weeks with my "maintenance" routine and I don't want to give up! I do 3 sets of 12 - 15 reps of shoulder press, seated row, squat press, reverse leg extension, leg extension, chest press, reverse back extension and double crunches, followed with 4 mins of "Tabata" training on a bicycle. I try to get this in 3 times a week, and do 2 cardio sessions and 2 rest days as well.
My body weight fluctuates up / down a couple of lbs throughout the week, I know that's normal, however my measurements haven't budged either. I keep seesawing between eating at maintenance / surplus / deficit because I'm just not sure what to do: you can't lose fat without a deficit but you can't gain muscle without a surplus! ... what kind of calories do I need to be eating?!
I know 4 weeks is not a lot of time and it'll take a hell of a lot longer, I just want to be on the right track and know I've done everything possible
Height: 161cm
Weight: 55kg
BF%: 27% (according to my crappy scales which are incredibly unreliable!)
The good news is, I got to my GW of 55kgs almost two months ago :drinker:
The "egh" news is, I went on holiday for 2 1/2 weeks and ate at a surplus for a while! As soon as I got back I got myself back on track and back at my goal weight :bigsmile:
The bad news is, I started a strength training routine and I feel like I've not progressed in the last 4 weeks with my "maintenance" routine and I don't want to give up! I do 3 sets of 12 - 15 reps of shoulder press, seated row, squat press, reverse leg extension, leg extension, chest press, reverse back extension and double crunches, followed with 4 mins of "Tabata" training on a bicycle. I try to get this in 3 times a week, and do 2 cardio sessions and 2 rest days as well.
My body weight fluctuates up / down a couple of lbs throughout the week, I know that's normal, however my measurements haven't budged either. I keep seesawing between eating at maintenance / surplus / deficit because I'm just not sure what to do: you can't lose fat without a deficit but you can't gain muscle without a surplus! ... what kind of calories do I need to be eating?!
I know 4 weeks is not a lot of time and it'll take a hell of a lot longer, I just want to be on the right track and know I've done everything possible
Height: 161cm
Weight: 55kg
BF%: 27% (according to my crappy scales which are incredibly unreliable!)
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Replies
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Got your things mixed up... 12-15 reps is not strenght conditioning - far from it!
Second - recomping is a rather complicated topic and unless you are very comfortable in what you are doing and the overall sports nutrition topic then it might be tricky to wake up one day and decide to recomp!
Last but not least - deficit you burn - surplus you build but at maintenance you are still be able to burn and build at the same time hence no need to go up one day and down the other.0 -
Are you progressively increasing your weights/resistance for those exercises? The way you encourage your body to keep strengthening muscle mass is to increase the weight you are using progressively.
Regarding what to eat, if you are happy with your current weight then I would suggest eating at maintenance whilst you get used to your changing physique and then go from there. If you want to drop body fat faster you can aim to drop your calories slightly to help the process whilst retaining what muscle mass you have. If your priority is more muscle mass over fat loss then you can increase your calories slightly to encourage your muscle mass to increase.
Recomp is notoriously slow, I would be gob smacked if you'd seem massive improvements in 4 weeks unless you were working out 3-5 days a week with a truly exceptional trainer.0 -
You've changed your profile photo. To my untrained eye I think you look (from that August photo at least) to be less than 27% body fat. There is a group on here called Eat, Train, Progress. The lovely people who run the group do eyeball body fat percentages from a set of photographs. Perhaps it would be worth joining and getting an idea from them where you are body fat wise.
It all really comes down to what you want first, less body fat or more muscle, if you've got a more accurate idea of where you are at with body fat then it might help you prioritize.0 -
Got your things mixed up... 12-15 reps is not strenght conditioning - far from it!
Okay, what do you suggest I do? Thanks for the heads up btw
Oops, I thought it meant increase muscle while losing fat! My mistake.body recomp is extremely complicatedLast but not least - deficit you burn - surplus you build but at maintenance you are still be able to burn and build at the same time hence no need to go up one day and down the other.
Ahh. This is a penny dropping moment for me, thanks! :bigsmile:
Yep, definitely! I'm slowly moving up as the weeks go onAre you progessively increasing your weights for those exercises?
And totally, I'm really not expecting results in 4 weeks, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So far, I've gathered:
1) Eat at maintenance
2) Lift heavy things
3) Don't give up and have lots of patience!0 -
With regards number of reps. There is some debate about what is best for what, but the most popular consensus is that low reps (1-6) is the optimum for increased strength and medium reps (8-12) are best for muscle hypertrophy. I personally like 3x5 for strength and 3x10 for growth and I vary it according the the specific exercise any my goal for that set of muscles.0
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Disagree with the comment that recomp is complex. It can be but doesn't have to be.
Eat at maintenance including adequate protein intake, train well, get enough rest & recovery time and be patient - that's it.
But it's not quick, especially for women. In 4 weeks you should be seeing strength improvements in being able to increase your weights or improved strength endurance in being able to do more reps at the same weight but don't expect to see anything else measurable than that in such a short time. My timeframe for measuring progress is six months but I'm a dinosaur with 40 training years behind me so would expect you to do better than that.
Unless your main goal is strength endurance I would definitely drop your reps and increase the weights.
This statement isn't true at all for people who aren't already fully trained and very lean.you can't lose fat without a deficit but you can't gain muscle without a surplus!0 -
Disagree with the comment that recomp is complex. It can be but doesn't have to be.
Eat at maintenance including adequate protein intake, train well, get enough rest & recovery time and be patient - that's it.
In this case OP seems to require guidance due to the deficit / loose & surplus / gain theorie.
Did probably not formulate it well - not complex however you do need to know what you are doing and need to know what your maintenance is. Whilst you might key in numbers from a website you still need to trial and error on yourself a cut, a maintenance and a bulk to understand how it works and what you can expect - you can't wake up one morning and say x website told me to maintain at xxx calories - let's recomp.0 -
Got your things mixed up... 12-15 reps is not strenght conditioning - far from it!
Okay, what do you suggest I do? Thanks for the heads up btw
Lower the reps range and lift weights that usually would set you to faillure at about 5-6 reps.
Progressivelly increase weights when you are able to reach 5-6 reps easily.
Oops, I thought it meant increase muscle while losing fat! My mistake.body recomp is extremely complicated
it is indeed increasing muscle and loosing fat - notion is easy - the practicality requires however a bit of knowledge of how your body reacts to a deficit, maintenance and surplus + obviously knowing the threshold between the 3.Last but not least - deficit you burn - surplus you build but at maintenance you are still be able to burn and build at the same time hence no need to go up one day and down the other.
Ahh. This is a penny dropping moment for me, thanks! :bigsmile:0 -
Agree. My maintenance level took about 6 weeks to find by trial and error.Disagree with the comment that recomp is complex. It can be but doesn't have to be.
Eat at maintenance including adequate protein intake, train well, get enough rest & recovery time and be patient - that's it.
In this case OP seems to require guidance due to the deficit / loose & surplus / gain theorie.
Did probably not formulate it well - not complex however you do need to know what you are doing and need to know what your maintenance is. Whilst you might key in numbers from a website you still need to trial and error on yourself a cut, a maintenance and a bulk to understand how it works and what you can expect - you can't wake up one morning and say x website told me to maintain at xxx calories - let's recomp.
Also agree about potential complexity that if you want to optimise everything to make maximal gains recomping at maintenance you are going to get into a more structured training approach plus the fine detail of nutrient timing and supplements to eke out those last few hard to get percentage points. However, for someone like me where body composition goals are met as a result of training performance and progress then recomp can be ultra simple. Just part of normal life in fact.
As with all these things there isn't a one size fits all approach without the context of goals and capabilities.0 -
To maximize progress, do train to failure some of the time. This means picking a weight heavy enough that you can't complete the last rep of your last set (without assistance of your spotter, or muscle not being able to respond at all). To prevent injury, don't let your form deteriorate.0
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You look incredible! Amazing job! This recomp, I'm told and remain hopeful, takes a very LONG time. I'm 3 months in 5 times a week, and I notice very little difference. I know that originally I was doing the 3- sets of 12-15. changed that about 1.5 mos ago to 3 sets of 8-10, heavy as possible.
Keep up the good work you're doing awesome!0 -
Holy macaroni you look great!!
First, massive congratulations for reaching this point. I'm tempted to say...just stay the same!!
I like the way you look athletic, strong, yet feminine all in one go. Do you know how rare that is?
What is it you want exactly?
Btw the bf measurements on the scale are sooooo wrong.
What's your height, weight in pounds, measurements and goals?
I'm happy to help.0 -
Why thank you everybody, it feels amazing to hear that! :blushing: *curtesy*
Now then, what do I want exactly... good question. I want to lose fat and stop feeling so jiggly. I want to be lean, not "thin"! I'd love more muscle.
The reason I want to do this is because I'm trying to shake off my t2 diabetes: I want to control it with diet and exercise alone, I'm on one tablet a day - I don't want to need medication! :P
Height: 5ft 2" / 161cm
Weight: 121lbs. (SO tempted to bring this down to 117 but I won't!)
Measurements: Chest 33", Waist 25.5", Hips 33.5"
I'd like to wittle down to 32", 24" and 32" eventually.
Anything else I can give? 0 -
Recomp can be complex as mentioned but it most definately takes a while...
I've seen women here do one and it take a year to get to the point where they were happy with the results.
Recomp means eating at maitenance and if you are set to eat 1450 a day that doesn't appear to be maitenance.
Recomp means doing a progressive heavy load lifting program 1-6 reps as heavy as you can go and then the next time adding weight. If you get to failure you don't add weight the next time. You do this 3x a week. (esp as if you are new to compound lifts)
I hit my goal in may and was still reverse dieting and will be tweaking my maitenance as well (it's been about 6 weeks) but I have continued to lift over that time as well. I see some difference in the 8 weeks since hitting goal and 6 weeks into maitenance but I have been lifting for a year but nothing spectacular in recomp area...
Be patient, make sure you are getting in protien and enough calories and start a compound progressive load lifting program.
Starting strength, Strong lifts or NROLFW (hear that is complicated)0 -
Am having a serious case of body envy right now....
Well done on your achievements to date.0 -
Why thank you everybody, it feels amazing to hear that! :blushing: *curtesy*
Now then, what do I want exactly... good question. I want to lose fat and stop feeling so jiggly. I want to be lean, not "thin"! I'd love more muscle.
The reason I want to do this is because I'm trying to shake off my t2 diabetes: I want to control it with diet and exercise alone, I'm on one tablet a day - I don't want to need medication! :P
Height: 5ft 2" / 161cm
Weight: 121lbs. (SO tempted to bring this down to 117 but I won't!)
Measurements: Chest 33", Waist 25.5", Hips 33.5"
I'd like to wittle down to 32", 24" and 32" eventually.
Anything else I can give?
I know your diary is open but don't understand the eat back calories mfp works on.
What is your calories target(s) daily?0 -
Okay, scoobys workshop have me on roughly 1900 calories a day to maintain weight. MFP have me as 1850 to maintain weight. I feel that this is too much so I've been recently trying to net 1600 calories for the week - I only stupidly set my goal to 1450 yesterday!
I'm aiming for between 1500 - 1600 net calories a day.0 -
Okay, scoobys workshop have me on roughly 1900 calories a day to maintain weight. MFP have me as 1850 to maintain weight. I feel that this is too much so I've been recently trying to net 1600 calories for the week - I only stupidly set my goal to 1450 yesterday!
I'm aiming for between 1500 - 1600 net calories a day.
1900 seems a bit much with your stats.
Before starting fix your workout / training patern and routine as a first and eventually fix your calories + macros... Start at let's say 1500 to start with - take measurements + pictures (weight, BF and tape measurer) and go on for at least 2 weeks of solid and CONSTANT tracking / working out.
2 weeks later re-measure yourself (same timings, conditions, water levels etc....) and assess I would say.
At that point it will be a matter of seeing how your body moved, the new stats and see if you are oncourse or need to re-evaluate.0 -
For body recomp i suggest consuming most of your carbs around you weight session also carb cycling works very well with recomp.
protein 1gram for a woman per lbs of bodyweight
Eg.
Meal 1 protein.. 20% carb intake..
Meal 2 protein.. fats.. greens
Meal 4 pre workout protein..40%carb intake.. greens
meal 5 post workout protien.. 40% carb.. intake.. greens
meal 5 protein.. fats.. greens
Non training day i would decrease you over all carb intake by 30% and add the calories in good fats nuts oils fish etc
Insulin is the only hormone in the body that stores fat and insulin can only be spiked by carbs so imo all carbs should be used around training so they get used for energy and aid repair. Fats and protein are essential where carbs are not.
Carb cycling is simple and great for losing weight and gaining muscle its also speeds up metabolism
For eg
Mon low day 100g
tues medium day 150g
wednesday high 200g
thursday low 100g
friday med 150g
saturday high 200g
Sunday extra high 300g
I usually find when i do the extra high day and weigh myself the next day i usually lose weight on scale.0 -
I personally like 3x5 for strength and 3x10 for growth and I vary it according the the specific exercise any my goal for that set of muscles.
Whoa 10 sets? That's a lot of volume.
What is the consequence of low sets 1-3 vs high sets 5-10? I understand Strength, Hypertrophy, and Endurance training as it relates to reps, but what effect do the number of sets have?0 -
For body recomp i suggest consuming most of your carbs around you weight session also carb cycling works very well with recomp.
protein 1gram for a woman per lbs of bodyweight
Eg.
Meal 1 protein.. 20% carb intake..
Meal 2 protein.. fats.. greens
Meal 4 pre workout protein..40%carb intake.. greens
meal 5 post workout protien.. 40% carb.. intake.. greens
meal 5 protein.. fats.. greens
Non training day i would decrease you over all carb intake by 30% and add the calories in good fats nuts oils fish etc
Insulin is the only hormone in the body that stores fat and insulin can only be spiked by carbs so imo all carbs should be used around training so they get used for energy and aid repair. Fats and protein are essential where carbs are not.
Carb cycling is simple and great for losing weight and gaining muscle its also speeds up metabolism
For eg
Mon low day 100g
tues medium day 150g
wednesday high 200g
thursday low 100g
friday med 150g
saturday high 200g
Sunday extra high 300g
I usually find when i do the extra high day and weigh myself the next day i usually lose weight on scale.
wow...not sure where this info came from.
People...not just women, based on what i read need 1g of protien per pound of LBM or 0.8 grams per lb...
as for the insulin thing...hmmm...I have read protien will spike it too and it doesn't store carbs as fat...the only thing that stores fat is excess calories.
Oh and carbs (or any other food) do not speed up metabolism...activity does that...food fuels that activity.
As for carb cycling it's a choice...I haven't heard a lot of good about it from people I know who have tried it.
As for you TDEE OP depending on your activity I was going to say that seems low to me...if you are active (exercise 5x a week) I would expect it to be more to be frank, just based on personal experience and watching other women your size eat and maintain on 2200-2500 depending on activity.0 -
Why thank you everybody, it feels amazing to hear that! :blushing: *curtesy*
Now then, what do I want exactly... good question. I want to lose fat and stop feeling so jiggly. I want to be lean, not "thin"! I'd love more muscle.
The reason I want to do this is because I'm trying to shake off my t2 diabetes: I want to control it with diet and exercise alone, I'm on one tablet a day - I don't want to need medication! :P
Height: 5ft 2" / 161cm
Weight: 121lbs. (SO tempted to bring this down to 117 but I won't!)
Measurements: Chest 33", Waist 25.5", Hips 33.5"
I'd like to wittle down to 32", 24" and 32" eventually.
Anything else I can give?
Here's my opinion!
I think you should go more hourglass, (waist 24, hips 34)which means trying not to lose too much body fat, and bulking up your butt.
Keep your chest and butt the same measurements but bulk and shape with something like Strong Curves where there is a lot of butt work along with the all over body progressive stuff.
You def don't need to weigh any less.
I
Route 1)
Bulk for 12 weeks, gaining .5lb of muscle and fat per week totalling 6lbs gain. Your shape will completely change, and you'll then be ready to melt the fat off. You then go on a slow cut slooooow and melt off fat holding on to the muscle.
You will end up with a wonderful smooth curvy ness without the bobbly fat deposits.
Route 2). Cut down to a low body fat percentage slowly over a couple of months being careful not to lose any muscle.
Bulk, as before then sloooow cut.
Either way, more organised than recomping, which is so vague and difficult. You'll be well happy by next spring.
I did the second way, but I'm not sure at 121 that you're already needing some lean body mass help.
Btw I was tremendously happy at the TOP of my bulk. Which was massively surprising to me, and goes to show it's shape not weight that counts. I cut a few pounds for sports reasons.
PS bulking over Christmas is the holy grail!!0 -
Although that info did seem really useful, I think my brain exploded a little bit after reading it! I wouldn't feel confident at all with that just yet, I need to figure out what my TDEE is before that.
As for carb cycling it's a choice...I haven't heard a lot of good about it from people I know who have tried it.As for you TDEE OP depending on your activity I was going to say that seems low to me...if you are active (exercise 5x a week) I would expect it to be more to be frank, just based on personal experience and watching other women your size eat and maintain on 2200-2500 depending on activity.
Wow, I'd love to get to that many calories! It sounds like I need to have a good few weeks to actually see what my TDEE is - using the advice above, if I stay on 1600-1800 netting a week, and re-evaluate my weight / measurements etc, I can then move on from there.
What I've come to accept is that this is going to be a life long process! I'm not looking for quick fixes so I'm in no rush to get results, I'd much rather have consistency and permanent results it's all about trial and error and what works for me, and you guys have opened my eyes to that. There's no "one formula only" rule at all. It may be that after doing a particular workout for 8 weeks there STILL aren't many dramatic changes, so I'll have to change that! One thing I've noticed since starting the weight training etc is that I can use heavier weights - that's progress in itself right? :bigsmile: 0 -
One thing I've noticed since starting the weight training etc is that I can use heavier weights - that's progress in itself right?
absolutely that's progress...great progress.
I too have accepted it as a lifelong thing..which is great...I don't mind.
I know for a lot of women (until they get out of a mindset) bulks can screw with your head...I mean imagine eating enough food to gain weight...wtf...:noway:
I have yet to do a bulk/cut cycle as well hence my recomp decision...however once I get to a certian point I may just have to to get the results I want...
Good luck.0 -
What I've come to accept is that this is going to be a life long process! I'm not looking for quick fixes so I'm in no rush to get results, I'd much rather have consistency and permanent results it's all about trial and error and what works for me, and you guys have opened my eyes to that. There's no "one formula only" rule at all. It may be that after doing a particular workout for 8 weeks there STILL aren't many dramatic changes, so I'll have to change that! One thing I've noticed since starting the weight training etc is that I can use heavier weights - that's progress in itself right? :bigsmile:
BANG ON!0 -
Okay, scoobys workshop have me on roughly 1900 calories a day to maintain weight. MFP have me as 1850 to maintain weight. I feel that this is too much so I've been recently trying to net 1600 calories for the week - I only stupidly set my goal to 1450 yesterday!
I'm aiming for between 1500 - 1600 net calories a day.
Isn't this still a deficit? I'm 5' tall, 45 yrs old & maintain 126# @ 2000 gross cal/day. I'm aiming to re-comp.
I'm also a T2D, however I haven't reached diabetic BG levels in quite a while. (I'm on Met once daily) I continue to test 7-8 times daily mainly because I've changed my diet & I'm able to add fruit back to my diet for the first time in 2 yrs.
The only activity I do is weight training 3 x weekly & I walk about 3 miles per day (Mon-Fri). I've been weight training for about 15 years but only mindfully so in the past 2 years, so I started with a fair muscle base.
To find my maintenance, I ate intuitively for a couple of weeks & found that I could be satisfied at 16-1800 but effortlessly doing my thing at 2000-2200.
At my age, I aim for increasing lean body mass vs. decreasing. Though my goal weight was 110-115, I figure I've got all the time in the world to get there if it's in the cards.
I'm also transitioning to low carb from Keto to help fuel my lifts, so given that, I had expected to gain, but, noope.
Anyhow...to re-comp, the general advice I've been given is to eat at maintenance, slight surplus, or slight deficit (+ or - 1-200 cal) and lift as heavy as you can, 5-8 reps, compound lifts...wait several months, & adjust as needed :drinker:
This is the current plan I'm following
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I'm aiming for between 1500 - 1600 net calories a day.
Isn't this still a deficit? I'm 5' tall, 45 yrs old & maintain 126# @ 2000 gross cal/day. I'm aiming to re-comp.
I'm also a T2D, however I haven't reached diabetic BG levels in quite a while. (I'm on Met once daily) I continue to test 7-8 times daily mainly because I've changed my diet & I'm able to add fruit back to my diet for the first time in 2 yrs.
Firstly, I would like to give a huge cheer for you being able to add fruit back into your diet - I have this weird addiction to fruit, it's like my drug! Very happy for you, fellow T2D :drinker: :bigsmile:
Yeahh, it's still a deficit isn't it? *hangs head* I'm just going to start with that! I've not been strength training / lifting for very long at all - don't worry, I will up the calories bit by bit each week, about 100 extra. Your routine sounds great!
And Springfield19, thanks for your advice too! ... I'm getting the impression that I need to eat more calories sooner rather than later! I WILL do it, just think of this as "testing the water" rather than plunging straight in with a higher calorie count.0 -
There's a group called Eat More To Weigh Less http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/3834-eat-more-to-weigh-less
Check it out for what you can expect when increasing calories & to help you figure out how to side-step if things get funky. Though it's geared towards people coming from a history of VLCD, lots of the information still applies. Helped me a ton because just as SS indicated, it's counter intuitive & you'll likely end up doubting the process. It helps to hear from other people who are on the same path when possible melt down moments loom :laugh:
Good luck with managing your T2D too
I don't know if you get lows, I'm moving from Keto to low carb, and my worst nightmare is bottoming out in the middle of a lift. I keep Smarties candies in my gym bag.
I haven't had to use them (2 g of glucose per #5 candies) though I admit I find myself almost wishing for an excuse :laugh:0 -
Volume. Volume training seems to do best with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.I personally like 3x5 for strength and 3x10 for growth and I vary it according the the specific exercise any my goal for that set of muscles.
Whoa 10 sets? That's a lot of volume.
What is the consequence of low sets 1-3 vs high sets 5-10? I understand Strength, Hypertrophy, and Endurance training as it relates to reps, but what effect do the number of sets have?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
To the OP: recomp is a LONG process for many. It can take a year or more to add on any significant muscle.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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