Is my trainer wrong?
Replies
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I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim
Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".
Hi - your trainer is dumb -Strong lifts is a fine proven program Find some one who can couch you on proper form - one suggestion you might want to do the lifts at high reps (10 -15) for a month or so - this will help get your work on your form and help get joints& tendons ready for the heavier weights - on the deadlifts - treat them as a series of singles - let go of the bar - reset - tighten up - take the slop out of the bar - then pull it up first with your back then legs and shoulders - don't round your back-- the bar should come very close to your shins - may scrape them -stand up straight and square your shoulders - Eastcoast Jim0 -
You sound like you know more than your trainer already...
I am not familiar with the way stronglifts is structured, but as a beginner you should absolutely be focusing on compound lifts. Don't worry about accessory lifts until you have a good foundation of strength and muscle which will come from basic compound lifts.
And yes, at this point, you should be focusing on proper form and not worrying about how much you are lifting. Starting out you are training your joints and nervous system on the movements you are doing so most of your strength gains will come from your body adapting and learning these movements not from actual muscle being built. Once you have proper form down, then and only then, should you focus on adding weight to the bar.
It makes you wonder how many people have been screwed up starting out, and will take a long time to figure out that they have wasted a lot of time and effort by listening to a moron such as this.
Good luck!0 -
I'm guessing your lower back was hurting because you weren't picking up the barbell from a complete dead stop, as in the name DEADlift, after every rep. And/or not letting the bar go in a controlled drop once you pass the knees on the way down. But it could be because of other issues.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!!! Especially the controlled drop. There was no "on the way down". I lifted it, and then bent over to set it down.
oh jeebus.
It goes down the same way it goes up.
Makes me crazy trying to teach people to DL- and they pick it up properly get to the top - and just bend over and set it down.
giant- huge- effing facepalm.
SAME WAY DOWN AS THE WAY UP.
New trainer- immediately- he's a grade A idiot. SL is' a great program- do some research on your own. Lots of Youtube videos to be had.
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I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I believe you because, as mentioned above, I know nothing, but I copied this directly from the SL5X5 website under the "Deadlifts" section
***5×5 stands for five sets of five reps. These are the sets and reps you do on every exercise except Deadlifts. Deadlift is only one set of five reps (1×5)***
I am so tired I am misreading? I am not being snarky--I am genuinely confused and I don't want to hurt myself!
ETA: Ok--Now I see where I am confused. So I should be doing one, taking a break, doing one, taking a break?
Duh! My mistake, it was REALLY late for me last night. Yes ONE SET of FIVE (Should have been sleeping, ha). But...it sounds like your trainer certainly overloaded you on day one, regardless of that. You should have been doing them bar only (even a plastic one if needed), since session one (and two and three...if necessary) is about getting form down.
If there is any way, please find a different trainer. If they are part of this gym, perhaps a talk w/ management is in order. Explain that your trainer does not want to and is not teaching you the program that you paid them to teach. Perhaps another trainer is available.
Thanks! I thought I was going crazy!! I was tired last night too so I felt like I couldn't trust my brain haha!0 -
Good job starting with compound lifts, and having a program! Having an outline of what to do makes it SO much easier than just showing up and being like "hmmmm, legs... squats? Hamstring curls? Decisions, decisions..."
Exactly! I have tried that way before and felt like my newbie indecision was radiating from me. I know no one else cares but it made me feel self-conscious, which made me not want to lift, which made me quit going. That is not happening this time.0 -
OP, your trainer is wrong
/thread0 -
Definitely find another trainer! One who understands and supports your goals. oh, and understands the importance of getting form down before adding heavy weight0
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It stinks hiring a pro for anything and then finding out you don't agree with him.
Maybe you can put him to work on something like making a video on your phone of you doing deadlifts, then you can critique your form yourself based on what you know and have learned on your own. There are a lot of video demos of good DL form.0 -
Deadlift is a hamstring exercise not a lower back exercise. I would say your form is wrong. Do you feel squats in your lower back too? That trainer is wrong.0
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You're supposed to start Stronglifts with the bar if you're a total beginner. How is that 'heavy lifting'? I think the trainer just wants to be controlling regardless. When I and everyone I know started lifting we all did heavy lifting with compounds for sports and I'm talking about male and female athletes.0
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I started Stronglifts today and I am working with a trainer just to make sure my form is right. Let me start by saying this guy is really against me doing Stronglifts.
I didn't read any further. Fire the trainer, find one who isn't an idiot.
EDIT: Ok, went back and read the rest of it. Don't just fire him, shoot him and bury his body in the woods before he can screw up anybody else. Compound moves with low weight is EXACTLY where a novice should be starting. Bloody hell...
Yup. He's also completely wrong about deadlift activation. Imagine what else he's wrong about.0 -
It's not that uncommon for some trainers to focus on some isolation exercises to build strength before moving into compound lifts. That said, it's been mentioned that SL 5x5 starts off with low weight specifically so that you can work on form.
If you can lift up a bag of cat litter, you're strong enough to perform those lifts with an empty bar. And even if you're not strong enough to perform those lifts with an empty oly bar, those are movements people use doing everyday tasks anyway.0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.0
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I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
If you can do 5 sets of 30 reps at 80%, it sounds to me like you're going too light on your 1x5's.0 -
You're asking your trainer to teach you good form. That is the only thing you need him for. And you want him to micro-critique your form. If he isn't doing that, you need a new trainer.
I would be very, very concerned about the lower back soreness. Chances are, you're setting the bar down wrong, and even a lousy trainer should be able to identify that problem. It sounds like this guy isn't even trying.
If you don't mind doing a lot of reading, I recommend reading "Starting Strength". That will show you the level of detail your trainer should be worried about. I know some good trainers disagree with Rippetoe about some of his teaching methods, so I wouldn't get hung up on following SS teaching form exactly, but any trainer should be worrying about things at that level of detail.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
If you can do 5 sets of 30 reps at 80%, it sounds to me like you're going too light on your 1x5's.
Probably, my big limiter at the moment is grip strength. I can hit 325 for 5, but can't go beyond that. I can hit 260 for sets of reps. I can imagine once the grip catches up, that 1x5 should jump. I do have some straps on order though. 0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
If you can do 5 sets of 30 reps at 80%, it sounds to me like you're going too light on your 1x5's.
Probably, my big limiter at the moment is grip strength. I can hit 325 for 5, but can't go beyond that. I can hit 260 for sets of reps. I can imagine once the grip catches up, that 1x5 should jump. I do have some straps on order though.
Try both overhead grip when deadlifting to work on grip strength. It is harder then the offset grip. I was stuck at 315 for months. MY friend comes along tell me to change two things then I get a 380 deadlift max. You can try the hook grip which is to put the four fingers around the thumb. It hurts though a lot.
Also for my last set after heavy dead lift I lower weight to 225 and perform deadlift and hold for as long as possible.0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
If you can do 5 sets of 30 reps at 80%, it sounds to me like you're going too light on your 1x5's.
Probably, my big limiter at the moment is grip strength. I can hit 325 for 5, but can't go beyond that. I can hit 260 for sets of reps. I can imagine once the grip catches up, that 1x5 should jump. I do have some straps on order though.
Try both overhead grip when deadlifting to work on grip strength. It is harder then the offset grip. I was stuck at 315 for months. MY friend comes along tell me to change two things then I get a 380 deadlift max. You can try the hook grip which is to put the four fingers around the thumb. It hurts though a lot.
Also for my last set after heavy dead lift I lower weight to 225 and perform deadlift and hold for as long as possible.
Heard that on hook grip, I'm weak though, it hurts.
I'm just getting used to offset now, it's a bit of a pain to turn an arm out.
My last set is always a stripper where I hold out at the longest hold I can handle, helps with lockout.
It'll get up there, 400 ain't too far. 0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.0 -
I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:
As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?
No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.
I don't think SL5x5 programs 5 1RM's for your DL's - pretty sure it's warm up sets and then 1 set of 5 reps and you're done. They keep it 1x5 to avoid overtaxing your CNS - trying to bang out 5 1RM's would be incredibly taxing.
yeah, SL5x5 is 1 set of 5 reps.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
If you can do 5 sets of 30 reps at 80%, it sounds to me like you're going too light on your 1x5's.
Probably, my big limiter at the moment is grip strength. I can hit 325 for 5, but can't go beyond that. I can hit 260 for sets of reps. I can imagine once the grip catches up, that 1x5 should jump. I do have some straps on order though.
Try both overhead grip when deadlifting to work on grip strength. It is harder then the offset grip. I was stuck at 315 for months. MY friend comes along tell me to change two things then I get a 380 deadlift max. You can try the hook grip which is to put the four fingers around the thumb. It hurts though a lot.
Also for my last set after heavy dead lift I lower weight to 225 and perform deadlift and hold for as long as possible.
Heard that on hook grip, I'm weak though, it hurts. I'm just getting used to offset now, it's a bit of a pain to turn an arm out.
My last set is always a stripper where I hold out at the longest hold I can handle, helps with lockout.
It'll get up there, 400 ain't too far.
That same friend of mine weights like 170 and deadlift 500 LOL.0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.
SO much to learn Thanks for explaining that. I always thought the difference between size (besides how heavy you lift to grow the muscle), was how low you get your body fat. I didn't realize training for strength was a different animal than training for size. 0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.
SO much to learn Thanks for explaining that. I always thought the difference between size (besides how heavy you lift to grow the muscle), was how low you get your body fat. I didn't realize training for strength was a different animal than training for size.
May I ask what has your trainer taught you?0 -
That's cardio.
With my trainer, we do deads 4 or 5 sets of 30 at 80% of my 1x5 weight.
;-)
But seriously, WTF?!?0 -
What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.
SO much to learn Thanks for explaining that. I always thought the difference between size (besides how heavy you lift to grow the muscle), was how low you get your body fat. I didn't realize training for strength was a different animal than training for size.
May I ask what has your trainer taught you?
I am not sure what you are asking? Yesterday was my first time with him....and as you can see from these posts, I wasn't comfortable.0 -
i dont' really understand his objections. If its something you want to do, your going to have to learn the form sometime, not sure why now is a bad time.
personally don't feel that strengthening muscles prior to lifting a certain why is really necessairy. if you experience pain or discomfort while using a weight that is clearly light for you, its probably due to flexibility issues that are best worked out with low weight and good attention to form.
i think the trainer is wrong lol0 -
Try not to dread tomorrow - go back, give him another chance by clearly explaining (again) your plan and goals and maybe you'll mesh better this time. If not, get your money's worth from your 3 sessions, learn proper form and either try someone else or keep learning on your own. Sometimes people just have a bad day and he may rethink what you originally asked and may be more helpful.0
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What is your goal? Strength only, or hypertrophy and aesthetics? If it's the former, you are correct. If it's the latter, the trainer is correct and this isn't the most efficient and safe program for you.
Strength. I mean, I would like to lower my body fat a bit so you can see the muscle I am building but that will be diet-focused, right? But even if you train for size, don't you get stronger?
there is a matter of maximization. When you train for size you get maximal size, and strength. When you train for strength you get maximal strength and then increased size comes as a product of that.
SO much to learn Thanks for explaining that. I always thought the difference between size (besides how heavy you lift to grow the muscle), was how low you get your body fat. I didn't realize training for strength was a different animal than training for size.
well, to be honest with you, i think more often then not one will mistake the definition gained by losing fat for an actual increase in muscle size.
people's preceptions of what kind of muscle mass is naturally attainable is pretty warpped by pro bodybuilding, pro wrestling, and actors who've built careers out of being large muscular men. That kind of physique isn't attainable without drugs (for over 95% of the population at least). I'd take that a step further and say that most men probably aren't very far away from thier full genetic potential muscle mass simply by being active and not being mal-nurished.
my point being that i think most guys would be very happy with thier muscularity if they could just keep the muslce they already have and drop significant amounts of body fat.
this is not meant as an excuse not to lift, as you will have a tough time keeping your muscle while losing fat without lifting, nor is it a suggestion that training for size is pointless, as one lbs. of muslce can have a dramtic effect on a body with low BF%... its just a reminder to keep things in perspective.
this is a chart that was developed by researching natural body builders. Its supposed to give you an idea of what the average person would weight, at a given height and bf% after ten years of training without steroids
http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/0
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