A Call for a Low-Carb Diet

meridianova

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now we're back to the "you're doing it wrong" argument. if you think i'm underestimating my intake, you can go argue with my kitchen scale. everything i eat is weighed, measured, and/or portioned. i believe i covered that about 40 posts ago.

Open your diary.

it's open to friends.

lindsey1979

Some of these people simply don't understand basic (and not so basic) biology. When you have a metabolic disorder, your body isn't doing what it's supposed to, and the extent of its deviation from the norm can vary greatly. So, if someone with a metabolic disorder eats food, it isn't metabolized in the same way. They can get a lot less of the energy that one usually would -- you see this in insulin resistance for example. Rather than using the food for energy, they get to use only part of it and part of it gets stored as fat. So to fulfill their "normal" energy needs, they need to eat more, which also results in greater fat storage -- and being overweight. Eating less isn't an option in the same way it is for "normal" people because they can't access their fat stores for energy the same way people with normal metabolisms can. They'll get crazy hunger pangs, headaches, terrible fatigue, etc. That is not normal or within the normal parameters of self-control. Thyroid stuff can get even crazier with extreme fatigue, losing your hair, skin going haywire, etc.

When your options are to eat less but sleep 14 hours a day to combat the fatigue that isn't really a viable, meaningful choice. Nor should it be.

Others who have had have less severe symptoms do a great disservice to others by proclaiming "I had that and did Y, so it's totally possible". Yes, it's totally possible for YOU and your symptoms. Not totally possible for everyone with that disorder or disease -- not everyone experiences the same symptoms, severity or reacts to medication the same way. Do we tell insulin dependent diabetics that if they'd just modify their food choices, they'd be fine? Of course not. That's absurd. The same is true for some others with similar disorders -- whether it's insulin resistance, thyroid, PCOS, etc. Each person is fighting their own battle in that regard and to make comments about how it's really all in their control by eating less just shows the person's extreme ignorance in how these disorders and diseases can affect people.

Having been on both sides of the battle, I can tell you once I got the proper medication for my issues, eating was extremely easy. It took about 1/100th of the effort that it previously did. If you haven't been on the other side of that battle, you have no idea what you're talking about.

likitisplit

You've probably already done this, and are just playing advocate, but to stop worrying about the "shoulds" and figure out what you need to do for your body and your metabolism is going to get you a lot farther than being frustrated about what happened last time.

you're right... the "shoulds" give me a goal post to shoot for, and a way to say "how do i get from HERE to THERE?"

Most people hit new lows and then swan around gaining and re-losing. I assume that you have a menstrual cycle, but even men experience this. That's why most people suggest waiting 6 weeks to see a trend.

actually i don't. my son decided he wanted to be an only child and "broke" me during childbirth. trust me, i don't miss it :laugh:.

Be happy for your successes. It sounds like you are doing great.

thank you, i'm trying to be. i'm also trying to remember that this is about overall health, not just fitting into smaller jeans.

It sounds like you have a lot of challenges and are meeting them like a trooper. I hope you find a good answer soon.

However, you seem to have the wherewithal to get where you need to be going regardless.

parkscs

Some of these people simply don't understand basic (and not so basic) biology. When you have a metabolic disorder, your body isn't doing what it's supposed to, and the extent of its deviation from the norm can vary greatly. So, if someone with a metabolic disorder eats food, it isn't metabolized in the same way. They can get a lot less of the energy that one usually would -- you see this in insulin resistance for example. Rather than using the food for energy, they get to use only part of it and part of it gets stored as fat. So to fulfill their "normal" energy needs, they need to eat more, which also results in greater fat storage -- and being overweight. Eating less isn't an option in the same way it is for "normal" people because they can't access their fat stores for energy the same way people with normal metabolisms can. They'll get crazy hunger pangs, headaches, terrible fatigue, etc. That is not normal or within the normal parameters of self-control. Thyroid stuff can get even crazier with extreme fatigue, losing your hair, skin going haywire, etc.

When your options are to eat less but sleep 14 hours a day to combat the fatigue that isn't really a viable, meaningful choice. Nor should it be.

Others who have had have less severe symptoms do a great disservice to others by proclaiming "I had that and did Y, so it's totally possible". Yes, it's totally possible for YOU and your symptoms. Not totally possible for everyone with that disorder or disease -- not everyone experiences the same symptoms, severity or reacts to medication the same way. Do we tell insulin dependent diabetics that if they'd just modify their food choices, they'd be fine? Of course not. That's absurd. The same is true for some others with similar disorders -- whether it's insulin resistance, thyroid, PCOS, etc. Each person is fighting their own battle in that regard and to make comments about how it's really all in their control by eating less just shows the person's extreme ignorance in how these disorders and diseases can affect people.

Having been on both sides of the battle, I can tell you once I got the proper medication for my issues, eating was extremely easy. It took about 1/100th of the effort that it previously did. If you haven't been on the other side of that battle, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A couple of things come to mind. For one, I don't know many people here that advocate against someone consulting their primary care physician or even a specialist as needed to diagnose and treat medical conditions. You can be tested to assess your thyroid function as well as for conditions like prediabetes and PCOS (although, and I'm no expert, but that's a conclusion drawn from multiple tests from what I understand). So if you think there's something wrong, you should get checked out and I don't know anyone here that would tell you otherwise. So, no, that's not what I'd tell an insulin dependent diabetic - I'd tell them to go talk to their doctor and, if they're dependent on injectable insulin, they should probably get some injectable insulin.

But at the end of the day, most people do not have a condition that prevents them from losing weight through diet and exercise, and I think the assumption here is that people with actual medical conditions will deal with their medical conditions through their doctors. You can't just assume that everyone who isn't losing weight has some sort of undiagnosed medical condition and blaming genetics for a lack of weight loss should probably be the last resort in terms of probability, not the first. For the vast majority of people, they are the reason that they are losing not losing weight, whether it's due to inaccurate logging, not adjusting their caloric intake frequently enough, and so on - in short, factors that are entirely within their control. And for the minority of people that truly are victims of crappy genetics and have some sort of medical condition, then the MFP forums are the last place they should go for diagnosis and treatment.

In terms of insulin resistance, even if you make the case that prediabetics as well as many overweight and obese people who are sedentary tend to be insulin resistant (which I'd buy), that's still something that can largely be addressed through diet and exercise. And it might be hard - but then again, it might be hard for people who really struggle financially, it might be hard for people with kids to take care of, it might be hard for people who work long hours, it might be hard for people who have to commute a long way to the gym, and on and on. Yeah, it could be hard for a lot of reasons, but that's life. But I will say, if some of those people (particularly with insulin resistance) find that a low carb diet works better for them or they just prefer it, that's great. They should go for it - and I'm not really one to push a low carb diet on other people, although I do try and answer questions about them when I feel I can. But if the diet doesn't work for them, whether due to restrictiveness or how they feel on the diet, then they should stay far away from it and never look back. But ultimately people just need to focus on doing what works for them and care less about what works for other people.

lindsey1979

Some of these people simply don't understand basic (and not so basic) biology. When you have a metabolic disorder, your body isn't doing what it's supposed to, and the extent of its deviation from the norm can vary greatly. So, if someone with a metabolic disorder eats food, it isn't metabolized in the same way. They can get a lot less of the energy that one usually would -- you see this in insulin resistance for example. Rather than using the food for energy, they get to use only part of it and part of it gets stored as fat. So to fulfill their "normal" energy needs, they need to eat more, which also results in greater fat storage -- and being overweight. Eating less isn't an option in the same way it is for "normal" people because they can't access their fat stores for energy the same way people with normal metabolisms can. They'll get crazy hunger pangs, headaches, terrible fatigue, etc. That is not normal or within the normal parameters of self-control. Thyroid stuff can get even crazier with extreme fatigue, losing your hair, skin going haywire, etc.

When your options are to eat less but sleep 14 hours a day to combat the fatigue that isn't really a viable, meaningful choice. Nor should it be.

Others who have had have less severe symptoms do a great disservice to others by proclaiming "I had that and did Y, so it's totally possible". Yes, it's totally possible for YOU and your symptoms. Not totally possible for everyone with that disorder or disease -- not everyone experiences the same symptoms, severity or reacts to medication the same way. Do we tell insulin dependent diabetics that if they'd just modify their food choices, they'd be fine? Of course not. That's absurd. The same is true for some others with similar disorders -- whether it's insulin resistance, thyroid, PCOS, etc. Each person is fighting their own battle in that regard and to make comments about how it's really all in their control by eating less just shows the person's extreme ignorance in how these disorders and diseases can affect people.

Having been on both sides of the battle, I can tell you once I got the proper medication for my issues, eating was extremely easy. It took about 1/100th of the effort that it previously did. If you haven't been on the other side of that battle, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A couple of things come to mind. For one, I don't know many people here that advocate against someone consulting their primary care physician or even a specialist as needed to diagnose and treat medical conditions. You can be tested to assess your thyroid function as well as for conditions like prediabetes and PCOS (although, and I'm no expert, but that's a conclusion drawn from multiple tests from what I understand). So if you think there's something wrong, you should get checked out and I don't know anyone here that would tell you otherwise. So, no, that's not what I'd tell an insulin dependent diabetic - I'd tell them to go talk to their doctor and, if they're dependent on injectable insulin, they should probably get some injectable insulin.

But at the end of the day, most people do not have a condition that prevents them from losing weight through diet and exercise, and I think the assumption here is that people with actual medical conditions will deal with their medical conditions through their doctors. You can't just assume that everyone who isn't losing weight has some sort of undiagnosed medical condition and blaming genetics for a lack of weight loss should probably be the last resort in terms of probability, not the first. For the vast majority of people, they are the reason that they are losing not losing weight, whether it's due to inaccurate logging, not adjusting their caloric intake frequently enough, and so on - in short, factors that are entirely within their control. And for the minority of people that truly are victims of crappy genetics and have some sort of medical condition, then the MFP forums are the last place they should go for diagnosis and treatment.

In terms of insulin resistance, even if you make the case that prediabetics as well as many overweight and obese people who are sedentary tend to be insulin resistant (which I'd buy), that's still something that can largely be addressed through diet and exercise. And it might be hard - but then again, it might be hard for people who really struggle financially, it might be hard for people with kids to take care of, it might be hard for people who work long hours, it might be hard for people who have to commute a long way to the gym, and on and on. Yeah, it could be hard for a lot of reasons, but that's life. But I will say, if some of those people (particularly with insulin resistance) find that a low carb diet works better for them or they just prefer it, that's great. They should go for it - and I'm not really one to push a low carb diet on other people, although I do try and answer questions about them when I feel I can. But if the diet doesn't work for them, whether due to restrictiveness or how they feel on the diet, then they should stay far away from it and never look back. But ultimately people just need to focus on doing what works for them and care less about what works for other people.

I agree with most of what you've said, but there certainly are people on MFP, and even on this thread, that have not been so generous. Or are very quick to jump on people as lazy, crazy, unable to measure food, etc. -- just as Meridianova has said herself (and I personally encountered that too). It is crazymaking to feel like you're doing everything "right" and still not having it work -- and just figuring out what is "right" is a challenge in and of itself.

For example, what Aaron_K123 said (and I usually consider him one of the more reasonable people here):

"Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it....There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

And, yes, some can be addressed through diet and exercise, but oftentimes a specific sort of diet is necessary -- which oftentimes is not acknowledged or just told is not necessary as long as your meeting your macros and micros. It's one of the reasons I tell overweight people if they're struggling with satiety and cravings, they may consider restricting carbs -- because it's totally possible that they're one of the undiagnosed insulin resistant people (and that's something like 30% of the US adult population -- almost 1 in 3). And, yet, there are other here that will jump on that as being unnecessarily restrictive, etc. But, there is a really good possibility that it would help a lot of overweight people for that very reason.

I'm not one for making excuses, but for finding reasons for underlying issues. Yes, if they aren't logging accurately, that's a problem. Or something is off with their math. Or not weighing their food. But there are a lot of other things out there -- and telling people that it's all their personal responsibility is not responsible because it prevents people from (1) getting the help they need and (2) finding the optimal path for them as an individual. It's about working smarter, not foolishly harder.

likitisplit

Some of these people simply don't understand basic (and not so basic) biology. When you have a metabolic disorder, your body isn't doing what it's supposed to, and the extent of its deviation from the norm can vary greatly. So, if someone with a metabolic disorder eats food, it isn't metabolized in the same way. They can get a lot less of the energy that one usually would -- you see this in insulin resistance for example. Rather than using the food for energy, they get to use only part of it and part of it gets stored as fat. So to fulfill their "normal" energy needs, they need to eat more, which also results in greater fat storage -- and being overweight. Eating less isn't an option in the same way it is for "normal" people because they can't access their fat stores for energy the same way people with normal metabolisms can. They'll get crazy hunger pangs, headaches, terrible fatigue, etc. That is not normal or within the normal parameters of self-control. Thyroid stuff can get even crazier with extreme fatigue, losing your hair, skin going haywire, etc.

When your options are to eat less but sleep 14 hours a day to combat the fatigue that isn't really a viable, meaningful choice. Nor should it be.

Others who have had have less severe symptoms do a great disservice to others by proclaiming "I had that and did Y, so it's totally possible". Yes, it's totally possible for YOU and your symptoms. Not totally possible for everyone with that disorder or disease -- not everyone experiences the same symptoms, severity or reacts to medication the same way. Do we tell insulin dependent diabetics that if they'd just modify their food choices, they'd be fine? Of course not. That's absurd. The same is true for some others with similar disorders -- whether it's insulin resistance, thyroid, PCOS, etc. Each person is fighting their own battle in that regard and to make comments about how it's really all in their control by eating less just shows the person's extreme ignorance in how these disorders and diseases can affect people.

Having been on both sides of the battle, I can tell you once I got the proper medication for my issues, eating was extremely easy. It took about 1/100th of the effort that it previously did. If you haven't been on the other side of that battle, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A couple of things come to mind. For one, I don't know many people here that advocate against someone consulting their primary care physician or even a specialist as needed to diagnose and treat medical conditions. You can be tested to assess your thyroid function as well as for conditions like prediabetes and PCOS (although, and I'm no expert, but that's a conclusion drawn from multiple tests from what I understand). So if you think there's something wrong, you should get checked out and I don't know anyone here that would tell you otherwise. So, no, that's not what I'd tell an insulin dependent diabetic - I'd tell them to go talk to their doctor and, if they're dependent on injectable insulin, they should probably get some injectable insulin.

But at the end of the day, most people do not have a condition that prevents them from losing weight through diet and exercise, and I think the assumption here is that people with actual medical conditions will deal with their medical conditions through their doctors. You can't just assume that everyone who isn't losing weight has some sort of undiagnosed medical condition and blaming genetics for a lack of weight loss should probably be the last resort in terms of probability, not the first. For the vast majority of people, they are the reason that they are losing not losing weight, whether it's due to inaccurate logging, not adjusting their caloric intake frequently enough, and so on - in short, factors that are entirely within their control. And for the minority of people that truly are victims of crappy genetics and have some sort of medical condition, then the MFP forums are the last place they should go for diagnosis and treatment.

In terms of insulin resistance, even if you make the case that prediabetics as well as many overweight and obese people who are sedentary tend to be insulin resistant (which I'd buy), that's still something that can largely be addressed through diet and exercise. And it might be hard - but then again, it might be hard for people who really struggle financially, it might be hard for people with kids to take care of, it might be hard for people who work long hours, it might be hard for people who have to commute a long way to the gym, and on and on. Yeah, it could be hard for a lot of reasons, but that's life. But I will say, if some of those people (particularly with insulin resistance) find that a low carb diet works better for them or they just prefer it, that's great. They should go for it - and I'm not really one to push a low carb diet on other people, although I do try and answer questions about them when I feel I can. But if the diet doesn't work for them, whether due to restrictiveness or how they feel on the diet, then they should stay far away from it and never look back. But ultimately people just need to focus on doing what works for them and care less about what works for other people.

I agree with most of what you've said, but there certainly are people on MFP, and even on this thread, that have not been so generous. Or are very quick to jump on people as lazy, crazy, unable to measure food, etc. -- just as Meridianova has said herself (and I personally encountered that too). It is crazymaking to feel like you're doing everything "right" and still not having it work -- and just figuring out what is "right" is a challenge in and of itself.

For example, what Aaron_K123 said (and I usually consider him one of the more reasonable people here):

"Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it....There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

And, yes, some can be addressed through diet and exercise, but oftentimes a specific sort of diet is necessary -- which oftentimes is not acknowledged or just told is not necessary as long as your meeting your macros and micros. It's one of the reasons I tell overweight people if they're struggling with satiety and cravings, they may consider restricting carbs -- because it's totally possible that they're one of the undiagnosed insulin resistant people (and that's something like 30% of the US adult population -- almost 1 in 3). And, yet, there are other here that will jump on that as being unnecessarily restrictive, etc. But, there is a really good possibility that it would help a lot of overweight people for that very reason.

I'm not one for making excuses, but for finding reasons for underlying issues. Yes, if they aren't logging accurately, that's a problem. Or something is off with their math. Or not weighing their food. But there are a lot of other things out there -- and telling people that it's all their personal responsibility is not responsible because it prevents people from (1) getting the help they need and (2) finding the optimal path for them as an individual. It's about working smarter, not foolishly harder.

It's your personal responsibility to get the help you need and find the optimal path for you as an individual.

Sitting on your butt blaming your genes does neither.

shellypaints

And threads like this one are why I don't often participate in these forums. The amount of ignorance and lack of compassion is a huge turnoff.

likitisplit

And threads like this one are why I don't often participate in these forums. The amount of ignorance and lack of compassion is a huge turnoff.

And I love warm hugs!

snikkins

Personally, being hypothyroid reaffirmed CICO and CICO helped me get to my proper med dosage, so I really don't understand the push against CICO in the name of hypothyroidism.

I did get the bad genetics hand. Every woman on my mom's side of the family is hypothyroid at the very least. I am fortunate enough that it seems that's where my bad hand ends. When I decided to lose weight, I got bloodwork done early on to see if my dosage was correct. It wasn't and in fact my doctor asked me if I was even taking it, which I was. Up went the dosage and off came the weight but not only was it coming off, it was falling off. I was losing 3-4lbs a week every week, despite my 2lb per week setting. I was definitely not surprised when the next bloodwork results showed that the new dosage had made me slightly hyperthyroid. Down went the dosage and everything stopped. I gained and lost the same 3-5lbs for the next three months, despite weighing my food and exercising. It was extraordinarily frustrating, but I knew it was likely that the meds were off. So, when my doctor called after the next tests saying that I was in the high "normal" range and that she would be keeping my dosage the same, I asked if there was a dosage between the two. There was! Hooray! Because guess what happened? Everything clicked and started working like it should and it was awesome.

Does that mean I lose exactly 1lb every week when that's what my setting is? Nope - there's some variation in there because of quite a few things but that's normal.

TL;DR: CICO and understanding that that's basically how it works helped me get my thyroid dosage in check so I really don't get the push against it because CICO is what happens.

likitisplit

Personally, being hypothyroid reaffirmed CICO and CICO helped me get to my proper med dosage, so I really don't understand the push against CICO in the name of hypothyroidism.

I did get the bad genetics hand. Every woman on my mom's side of the family is hypothyroid at the very least. I am fortunate enough that it seems that's where my bad hand ends. When I decided to lose weight, I got bloodwork done early on to see if my dosage was correct. It wasn't and in fact my doctor asked me if I was even taking it, which I was. Up went the dosage and off came the weight but not only was it coming off, it was falling off. I was losing 3-4lbs a week every week, despite my 2lb per week setting. I was definitely not surprised when the next bloodwork results showed that the new dosage had made me slightly hyperthyroid. Down went the dosage and everything stopped. I gained and lost the same 3-5lbs for the next three months, despite weighing my food and exercising. It was extraordinarily frustrating, but I knew it was likely that the meds were off. So, when my doctor called after the next tests saying that I was in the high "normal" range and that she would be keeping my dosage the same, I asked if there was a dosage between the two. There was! Hooray! Because guess what happened? Everything clicked and started working like it should and it was awesome.

Does that mean I lose exactly 1lb every week when that's what my setting is? Nope - there's some variation in there because of quite a few things but that's normal.

TL;DR: CICO and understanding that that's basically how it works helped me get my thyroid dosage in check so I really don't get the push against it because CICO is what happens.

Brilliant! So you can tell what your thyroid is doing based on your metabolic response?

lindsey1979

I agree with most of what you've said, but there certainly are people on MFP, and even on this thread, that have not been so generous. Or are very quick to jump on people as lazy, crazy, unable to measure food, etc. -- just as Meridianova has said herself (and I personally encountered that too). It is crazymaking to feel like you're doing everything "right" and still not having it work -- and just figuring out what is "right" is a challenge in and of itself.

For example, what Aaron_K123 said (and I usually consider him one of the more reasonable people here):

"Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it....There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

And, yes, some can be addressed through diet and exercise, but oftentimes a specific sort of diet is necessary -- which oftentimes is not acknowledged or just told is not necessary as long as your meeting your macros and micros. It's one of the reasons I tell overweight people if they're struggling with satiety and cravings, they may consider restricting carbs -- because it's totally possible that they're one of the undiagnosed insulin resistant people (and that's something like 30% of the US adult population -- almost 1 in 3). And, yet, there are other here that will jump on that as being unnecessarily restrictive, etc. But, there is a really good possibility that it would help a lot of overweight people for that very reason.

I'm not one for making excuses, but for finding reasons for underlying issues. Yes, if they aren't logging accurately, that's a problem. Or something is off with their math. Or not weighing their food. But there are a lot of other things out there -- and telling people that it's all their personal responsibility is not responsible because it prevents people from (1) getting the help they need and (2) finding the optimal path for them as an individual. It's about working smarter, not foolishly harder.

It's your personal responsibility to get the help you need and find the optimal path for you as an individual.

Sitting on your butt blaming your genes does neither.

Do you really think that's what folks on MFP are doing? The ones sitting on their butts blaming their genes wouldn't be motivated to join/come to a health/fitness site seeking answers. That doesn't even make sense. They're here because they're looking for help -- many because previous methods haven't worked. They're looking for the optimal path and telling them that they're lazy, crazy, etc. -- especially when so many are afflicted with issues -- is highly irresponsible.

lindsey1979

And threads like this one are why I don't often participate in these forums. The amount of ignorance and lack of compassion is a huge turnoff.

+1

snikkins

Personally, being hypothyroid reaffirmed CICO and CICO helped me get to my proper med dosage, so I really don't understand the push against CICO in the name of hypothyroidism.

I did get the bad genetics hand. Every woman on my mom's side of the family is hypothyroid at the very least. I am fortunate enough that it seems that's where my bad hand ends. When I decided to lose weight, I got bloodwork done early on to see if my dosage was correct. It wasn't and in fact my doctor asked me if I was even taking it, which I was. Up went the dosage and off came the weight but not only was it coming off, it was falling off. I was losing 3-4lbs a week every week, despite my 2lb per week setting. I was definitely not surprised when the next bloodwork results showed that the new dosage had made me slightly hyperthyroid. Down went the dosage and everything stopped. I gained and lost the same 3-5lbs for the next three months, despite weighing my food and exercising. It was extraordinarily frustrating, but I knew it was likely that the meds were off. So, when my doctor called after the next tests saying that I was in the high "normal" range and that she would be keeping my dosage the same, I asked if there was a dosage between the two. There was! Hooray! Because guess what happened? Everything clicked and started working like it should and it was awesome.

Does that mean I lose exactly 1lb every week when that's what my setting is? Nope - there's some variation in there because of quite a few things but that's normal.

TL;DR: CICO and understanding that that's basically how it works helped me get my thyroid dosage in check so I really don't get the push against it because CICO is what happens.

Brilliant! So you can tell what your thyroid is doing based on your metabolic response?

That is what happened for me, yes. I am a bit concerned about there being more to it since my aunt had Hashimoto's and my grandmother has Grave's so when things are more than they should be, I pay more attention but as of yet, it ends up evening out, e.g. I'm at .5lbs setting right now and sometimes I'll drop 1.5-2lb but then I won't lose for a few weeks.

It's actually pretty neat, though (because science!), and I'm so glad I lurked in the forums to learn about CICO while this was going on!

likitisplit

I agree with most of what you've said, but there certainly are people on MFP, and even on this thread, that have not been so generous. Or are very quick to jump on people as lazy, crazy, unable to measure food, etc. -- just as Meridianova has said herself (and I personally encountered that too). It is crazymaking to feel like you're doing everything "right" and still not having it work -- and just figuring out what is "right" is a challenge in and of itself.

For example, what Aaron_K123 said (and I usually consider him one of the more reasonable people here):

"Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it....There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

And, yes, some can be addressed through diet and exercise, but oftentimes a specific sort of diet is necessary -- which oftentimes is not acknowledged or just told is not necessary as long as your meeting your macros and micros. It's one of the reasons I tell overweight people if they're struggling with satiety and cravings, they may consider restricting carbs -- because it's totally possible that they're one of the undiagnosed insulin resistant people (and that's something like 30% of the US adult population -- almost 1 in 3). And, yet, there are other here that will jump on that as being unnecessarily restrictive, etc. But, there is a really good possibility that it would help a lot of overweight people for that very reason.

I'm not one for making excuses, but for finding reasons for underlying issues. Yes, if they aren't logging accurately, that's a problem. Or something is off with their math. Or not weighing their food. But there are a lot of other things out there -- and telling people that it's all their personal responsibility is not responsible because it prevents people from (1) getting the help they need and (2) finding the optimal path for them as an individual. It's about working smarter, not foolishly harder.

It's your personal responsibility to get the help you need and find the optimal path for you as an individual.

Sitting on your butt blaming your genes does neither.

Do you really think that's what folks on MFP are doing? The ones sitting on their butts blaming their genes wouldn't be motivated to join/come to a health/fitness site seeking answers. That doesn't even make sense. They're here because they're looking for help -- many because previous methods haven't worked. They're looking for the optimal path and telling them that they're lazy, crazy, etc. -- especially when so many are afflicted with issues -- is highly irresponsible.

Yes, Lindsey. That's exactly what I've been doing over, and over, and over in this thread.

lindsey1979

Personally, being hypothyroid reaffirmed CICO and CICO helped me get to my proper med dosage, so I really don't understand the push against CICO in the name of hypothyroidism.

I did get the bad genetics hand. Every woman on my mom's side of the family is hypothyroid at the very least. I am fortunate enough that it seems that's where my bad hand ends. When I decided to lose weight, I got bloodwork done early on to see if my dosage was correct. It wasn't and in fact my doctor asked me if I was even taking it, which I was. Up went the dosage and off came the weight but not only was it coming off, it was falling off. I was losing 3-4lbs a week every week, despite my 2lb per week setting. I was definitely not surprised when the next bloodwork results showed that the new dosage had made me slightly hyperthyroid. Down went the dosage and everything stopped. I gained and lost the same 3-5lbs for the next three months, despite weighing my food and exercising. It was extraordinarily frustrating, but I knew it was likely that the meds were off. So, when my doctor called after the next tests saying that I was in the high "normal" range and that she would be keeping my dosage the same, I asked if there was a dosage between the two. There was! Hooray! Because guess what happened? Everything clicked and started working like it should and it was awesome.

Does that mean I lose exactly 1lb every week when that's what my setting is? Nope - there's some variation in there because of quite a few things but that's normal.

TL;DR: CICO and understanding that that's basically how it works helped me get my thyroid dosage in check so I really don't get the push against it because CICO is what happens.

Brilliant! So you can tell what your thyroid is doing based on your metabolic response?

Sometimes, sometimes not. When you're hyper, you usually notice other things -- like heart beating faster the normal, difficulty sleeping, hair loss, etc. before you notice the weight loss. And for some, the weight doesn't change drastically being hyper -- they just get the other less than awesome side effects.

likitisplit

Personally, being hypothyroid reaffirmed CICO and CICO helped me get to my proper med dosage, so I really don't understand the push against CICO in the name of hypothyroidism.

I did get the bad genetics hand. Every woman on my mom's side of the family is hypothyroid at the very least. I am fortunate enough that it seems that's where my bad hand ends. When I decided to lose weight, I got bloodwork done early on to see if my dosage was correct. It wasn't and in fact my doctor asked me if I was even taking it, which I was. Up went the dosage and off came the weight but not only was it coming off, it was falling off. I was losing 3-4lbs a week every week, despite my 2lb per week setting. I was definitely not surprised when the next bloodwork results showed that the new dosage had made me slightly hyperthyroid. Down went the dosage and everything stopped. I gained and lost the same 3-5lbs for the next three months, despite weighing my food and exercising. It was extraordinarily frustrating, but I knew it was likely that the meds were off. So, when my doctor called after the next tests saying that I was in the high "normal" range and that she would be keeping my dosage the same, I asked if there was a dosage between the two. There was! Hooray! Because guess what happened? Everything clicked and started working like it should and it was awesome.

Does that mean I lose exactly 1lb every week when that's what my setting is? Nope - there's some variation in there because of quite a few things but that's normal.

TL;DR: CICO and understanding that that's basically how it works helped me get my thyroid dosage in check so I really don't get the push against it because CICO is what happens.

Brilliant! So you can tell what your thyroid is doing based on your metabolic response?

That is what happened for me, yes. I am a bit concerned about there being more to it since my aunt had Hashimoto's and my grandmother has Grave's so when things are more than they should be, I pay more attention but as of yet, it ends up evening out, e.g. I'm at .5lbs setting right now and sometimes I'll drop 1.5-2lb but then I won't lose for a few weeks.

It's actually pretty neat, though (because science!), and I'm so glad I lurked in the forums to learn about CICO while this was going on!

That sounds like normal variation. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

lindsey1979

I agree with most of what you've said, but there certainly are people on MFP, and even on this thread, that have not been so generous. Or are very quick to jump on people as lazy, crazy, unable to measure food, etc. -- just as Meridianova has said herself (and I personally encountered that too). It is crazymaking to feel like you're doing everything "right" and still not having it work -- and just figuring out what is "right" is a challenge in and of itself.

For example, what Aaron_K123 said (and I usually consider him one of the more reasonable people here):

"Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it....There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

And, yes, some can be addressed through diet and exercise, but oftentimes a specific sort of diet is necessary -- which oftentimes is not acknowledged or just told is not necessary as long as your meeting your macros and micros. It's one of the reasons I tell overweight people if they're struggling with satiety and cravings, they may consider restricting carbs -- because it's totally possible that they're one of the undiagnosed insulin resistant people (and that's something like 30% of the US adult population -- almost 1 in 3). And, yet, there are other here that will jump on that as being unnecessarily restrictive, etc. But, there is a really good possibility that it would help a lot of overweight people for that very reason.

I'm not one for making excuses, but for finding reasons for underlying issues. Yes, if they aren't logging accurately, that's a problem. Or something is off with their math. Or not weighing their food. But there are a lot of other things out there -- and telling people that it's all their personal responsibility is not responsible because it prevents people from (1) getting the help they need and (2) finding the optimal path for them as an individual. It's about working smarter, not foolishly harder.

It's your personal responsibility to get the help you need and find the optimal path for you as an individual.

Sitting on your butt blaming your genes does neither.

Do you really think that's what folks on MFP are doing? The ones sitting on their butts blaming their genes wouldn't be motivated to join/come to a health/fitness site seeking answers. That doesn't even make sense. They're here because they're looking for help -- many because previous methods haven't worked. They're looking for the optimal path and telling them that they're lazy, crazy, etc. -- especially when so many are afflicted with issues -- is highly irresponsible.

Yes, Lindsey. That's exactly what I've been doing over, and over, and over in this thread.

Some people have, on this threads and others. If you weren't then why make such a crappy statement?

Catter_05

Some of these people simply don't understand basic (and not so basic) biology. When you have a metabolic disorder, your body isn't doing what it's supposed to, and the extent of its deviation from the norm can vary greatly. So, if someone with a metabolic disorder eats food, it isn't metabolized in the same way. They can get a lot less of the energy that one usually would -- you see this in insulin resistance for example. Rather than using the food for energy, they get to use only part of it and part of it gets stored as fat. So to fulfill their "normal" energy needs, they need to eat more, which also results in greater fat storage -- and being overweight. Eating less isn't an option in the same way it is for "normal" people because they can't access their fat stores for energy the same way people with normal metabolisms can. They'll get crazy hunger pangs, headaches, terrible fatigue, etc. That is not normal or within the normal parameters of self-control. Thyroid stuff can get even crazier with extreme fatigue, losing your hair, skin going haywire, etc.

When your options are to eat less but sleep 14 hours a day to combat the fatigue that isn't really a viable, meaningful choice. Nor should it be.

Others who have had have less severe symptoms do a great disservice to others by proclaiming "I had that and did Y, so it's totally possible". Yes, it's totally possible for YOU and your symptoms. Not totally possible for everyone with that disorder or disease -- not everyone experiences the same symptoms, severity or reacts to medication the same way. Do we tell insulin dependent diabetics that if they'd just modify their food choices, they'd be fine? Of course not. That's absurd. The same is true for some others with similar disorders -- whether it's insulin resistance, thyroid, PCOS, etc. Each person is fighting their own battle in that regard and to make comments about how it's really all in their control by eating less just shows the person's extreme ignorance in how these disorders and diseases can affect people.

Having been on both sides of the battle, I can tell you once I got the proper medication for my issues, eating was extremely easy. It took about 1/100th of the effort that it previously did. If you haven't been on the other side of that battle, you have no idea what you're talking about.

A couple of things come to mind. For one, I don't know many people here that advocate against someone consulting their primary care physician or even a specialist as needed to diagnose and treat medical conditions. You can be tested to assess your thyroid function as well as for conditions like prediabetes and PCOS (although, and I'm no expert, but that's a conclusion drawn from multiple tests from what I understand). So if you think there's something wrong, you should get checked out and I don't know anyone here that would tell you otherwise. So, no, that's not what I'd tell an insulin dependent diabetic - I'd tell them to go talk to their doctor and, if they're dependent on injectable insulin, they should probably get some injectable insulin.

But at the end of the day, most people do not have a condition that prevents them from losing weight through diet and exercise, and I think the assumption here is that people with actual medical conditions will deal with their medical conditions through their doctors. You can't just assume that everyone who isn't losing weight has some sort of undiagnosed medical condition and blaming genetics for a lack of weight loss should probably be the last resort in terms of probability, not the first. For the vast majority of people, they are the reason that they are losing not losing weight, whether it's due to inaccurate logging, not adjusting their caloric intake frequently enough, and so on - in short, factors that are entirely within their control. And for the minority of people that truly are victims of crappy genetics and have some sort of medical condition, then the MFP forums are the last place they should go for diagnosis and treatment.

In terms of insulin resistance, even if you make the case that prediabetics as well as many overweight and obese people who are sedentary tend to be insulin resistant (which I'd buy), that's still something that can largely be addressed through diet and exercise. And it might be hard - but then again, it might be hard for people who really struggle financially, it might be hard for people with kids to take care of, it might be hard for people who work long hours, it might be hard for people who have to commute a long way to the gym, and on and on. Yeah, it could be hard for a lot of reasons, but that's life. But I will say, if some of those people (particularly with insulin resistance) find that a low carb diet works better for them or they just prefer it, that's great. They should go for it - and I'm not really one to push a low carb diet on other people, although I do try and answer questions about them when I feel I can. But if the diet doesn't work for them, whether due to restrictiveness or how they feel on the diet, then they should stay far away from it and never look back. But ultimately people just need to focus on doing what works for them and care less about what works for other people.

For the most part I agree. A lot of people do not have medical issues that keep them from losing weight. That it's difficult to lose weight due to many different circumstances is true too. But, the problem is, it can be very difficult and time consuming to get Drs. To take your concerns seriously.
One of the reasons I made the remarks I made was because of this comment;
"There is one person and one person alone that is responsible for your health as an adult and that is you. Your health is your responsibility and if you become overweight or obese it is because you have neglected your health. You may have reasons for that neglect associated with job or family but that does not mean you did not neglect that one aspect of your life. You may have various medical conditions that make your metabolism different than that of the population (hyper- hypothyroidism, PCOS etc) but then it is your responsibility to recognize that, understand your maintenance level and adjust accordingly. Placing blame on something beyond your control is just acceptance that being unhealthy is somehow your destiny and that is NOT the kind of mindset that is going to improve your life.

Harsh reality time. If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be. If there is a condition that forces you to gain weight to an unhealthy level regardless of what you do I have not heard of it.

There CAN be things outside of your control that make you scrawny, or skinny, or unhealthily thin...but there isn't such a thing for being overweight."

I'm not sure why being scrawny is any more beyond your control than being overweight, especially when there are medical conditions involved. It took me years to get my conditions diagnosed. Years of being treated like a hypochondriac and being in terrible pain. Do I have it under control now? Yep, through medical intervention, hard work, and sacrifice. So maybe I am a little defensive, but it has been rough. I am also outspoken about it because there are people out there going through what I went through and they don't know what's wrong with their bodies. I would like to save others from experiencing as much of the physical and emotional pain that I have suffered. Comments like, "If you are obese, if you are overweight, that is a self-infliicted condition regardless of what your life or medical situation may be.", really bother me because they dismiss a lot of what I have experienced. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.