ketosis question

middleagedmeh

I have decided to maintain my calorie deficit but try the ketogenic diet. Have been below 30 net carbs for 4 days and as close as I can to 54g of protein with 129g of fat.
Here is the thing... besides a headache on day 1 (which may be due to field work and not diet) I have not noticed any changes.
No weight loss. No weight gain. No breath, no mettallic taste, no weird urine, no armpit odor, no tiredness.
If anyone is experienced enough, a would you look at my diet and advise me on what I am doing wrong.

kshadows

Your diary is closed so I can't take a close look. BUT 54g of protein is AWFULLY low.

If you are maintaining, why not just figure your TDEE, calculate the macros (P, C, F) that your body actually needs and then eat within the limits?

Cardio4Cupcakes

You need SOME protein in your diet. I'm carb cycling- ketoing and I usually average 20G carbs, 120G fat and 90-100G of protein on a 1500 calorie day.

middleagedmeh

opened it now.
I used the ratios from the ketosis calculator.
isn't protein supposed to be low at first?

middleagedmeh

Ok sounds like i should increase my protein intake.
I have noticed 1 sign which is despite the fact the food in front of me is really good and i want it - i get full very quickly.

middleagedmeh

Your diary is closed so I can't take a close look. BUT 54g of protein is AWFULLY low.

If you are maintaining, why not just figure your TDEE, calculate the macros (P, C, F) that your body actually needs and then eat within the limits?

I am not maintaining. I still have a 5kg to get to my first goal. (final goal is 10 more kg after that).

Goal 1 is weigh on my son's birth.
Goal 2 is my weight freshman year in college which was good.

TheRealNoodlette

You may want to go over to one of the keto groups on MFP who can better answer your question. But yes, your protein is WAY too low. You want to keep carbs low, not protein! Good luck!

mahoganyjules

Are you drinking enough water?

bradsbaby1996

Yes you should definitely up your protein!! I have been low carb/keto for 11 months and 5 days and have lost 110 pounds.. For a few months, I was eating (actually drinking, coffee with butter, coconut oil and heavy whipping cream) incredibly high amounts of fat and very little protein.. I lost all my muscle and strength.. I was very weak!! Since July, I have upped my protein a LOT... I now eat at least 103 grams of protein a day.. I'm 5'8 154 pounds... Also, I have to keep my calories UP because less than 1400 I don't lose..

rayneface

It's only been 4 days. Change takes time.

bradsbaby1996

Are you drinking enough water?

THIS for sure.... and to lose, in my opinion, you need to be at the lower end of your fat requirement.. So if that is 90-180, you would want to stay closer to 90..

Unknown

This content has been removed.

bradsbaby1996

No, there is a big difference in ketosis and ketoacidosis!!!! Unless, you are type 1 diabetic, staying in ketosis is very safe... After 11 months, I am healthier than I have ever been in my entire adult life....

And, for someone who used to have kidney infections frequently, I haven't had one since starting this lifestyle..

I also don't feel deprived as my health and weight are more important to me than what I choose not to eat..

This lifestyle works great for some... However, it can not be used as a fad diet or it will backfire on ya..

drepublic

Be careful with this diet...especially if you exercise any at all. You can see fast results...but at what cost?

Did a similar diet with Steak and Eggs earlier this year. I could not take the mood swings. About the 4th day your mind starts to wonder...are you having a refeed meal on this diet at some point?

I would opt for something balanced and sustainable.

MityMax96

Why ketogenic???
I mean simple caloric deficit is not an option?

Carbs are wonderful little creatures

parkscs

opened it now.
I used the ratios from the ketosis calculator.
isn't protein supposed to be low at first?

I'm going to try and ignore much of the derp in this thread about ketoacidosis and the like... and I'll assume you have a legitimate reason for following a ketogenic diet. So, with that said, I'll just answer your question about protein intake and say no, it's not supposed to be lower at first. I'll leave you this quote about your protein intake from Lyle's book on the subject:

The most critical time to ensure sufficient protein intake is during the first few weeks of a ketogenic diet, when the need for protein breakdown to provide glucose is at its highest. After the first few weeks of ketosis, protein requirements will go down as the body reduces its need for glucose. As established in chapter 5, the prevention of nitrogen losses requires a protein intake of
at least 1.75 grams protein/kg LBM (0.8 grams/ lb of bodyweight) OR 150 grams of protein, whichever is higher.

For lighter individuals, 1.75 g/kg of protein may be less than 150 grams, in which case protein should be adjusted upwards to avoid nitrogen losses. After the third week of ketosis, when the major protein sparing adaptations have taken place, protein intake can be adjusted downwards as necessary. Please note that this value was determined for individuals who are not exercising and are consuming minimal carbohydrates.

If an individual is exercising, it is assumed that protein requirements are higher than the minimum of 1.75 grams/kg (~0.8 grams/lb). A protein intake of 0.9 grams of protein/lb of total bodyweight is an appropriate protein level to start at. Although this is slightly higher than the values suggested above, we can assume that extra protein is necessary during the initial phases
of adaptation.

If an individual is consuming even marginal amounts of carbohydrates (30 grams), then less protein is necessary to achieve a positive nitrogen balance. Recall from the previous chapter that 1 gram of protein will produce 0.58 grams of glucose. So 2 grams of protein will produce a little more than 1 gram of glucose. Therefore, for every gram of carbohydrate consumed on a
ketogenic diet, protein requirements should go down by 2 grams. Someone consuming the maximum of 30 grams of carbohydrate per day could reduce protein intake by approximately 15 grams per day.

So there's your answer. As far as not feeling any different, it's been all of 4 days. Very rarely does something dramatic happen in 4 days time.

MelRC117

This diet you are trying, according to a kidney Dr that i worked with, should not be done for longer than six weeks. You can harm your kidneys doing this. Ketoacidosis is experienced by diabetics, its not a state you want to keep your body in to lose weight. Leaving carbs off for long periods of time can lead to renal calculi also. Kidney stones are no fun.

You would be much better served in the long run to get on a 1500 cal a day diet and not have to deprive yourself of anything.

Ketosis is NOT the same thing as Ketoacidosis.

In addition to upping your protein -
You can measure *roughly* your ketone levels with ketostix things. You don't have to get deep purple or anything, as long as you have some ketones, you're in ketosis. They're available at Wal Mart, Walgreens, etc by the supplies for diabetics. They are not essential by any means. I honestly could care less if I'm in ketosis as long as I'm losing.

Also, I never know when I'm in ketosis exactly. I don't get the breath (I don't think and my husband has never commented), I don't get the metallic taste. You may be in ketosis but not experience those things.

Make sure you're drinking plenty of water and getting in sodium. Also, I notice you're eating nuts and seeds. Be careful eating those while trying to get into ketosis and the amounts...specifically the pistachios. I don't see fiber as one of your columns, and its COMPLETELY up to you, but you can change one of your columns to that to get a better idea of net carbs (as long as what nutrition information you're entering don't already account for net carbs).

I highly recommend going over to the keto group and reading some of the pinned threads. ETA: Just kidding...I meant the pinned threads in the "Low Carber Daily Forum". Good information there.

middleagedmeh

Yes you should definitely up your protein!! I have been low carb/keto for 11 months and 5 days and have lost 110 pounds.. For a few months, I was eating (actually drinking, coffee with butter, coconut oil and heavy whipping cream) incredibly high amounts of fat and very little protein.. I lost all my muscle and strength.. I was very weak!! Since July, I have upped my protein a LOT... I now eat at least 103 grams of protein a day.. I'm 5'8 154 pounds... Also, I have to keep my calories UP because less than 1400 I don't lose..

Thank you all for the responses.
I think i am drinking enough water. My thirst has gone up quite a bit. I am around 4*0.75l a day (3l).
I will up my protein and adjust for the calorie intake.

middleagedmeh

opened it now.
I used the ratios from the ketosis calculator.
isn't protein supposed to be low at first?

I'm going to try and ignore much of the derp in this thread about ketoacidosis and the like... and I'll assume you have a legitimate reason for following a ketogenic diet. So, with that said, I'll just answer your question about protein intake and say no, it's not supposed to be lower at first. I'll leave you this quote about your protein intake from Lyle's book on the subject:

The most critical time to ensure sufficient protein intake is during the first few weeks of a ketogenic diet, when the need for protein breakdown to provide glucose is at its highest. After the first few weeks of ketosis, protein requirements will go down as the body reduces its need for glucose. As established in chapter 5, the prevention of nitrogen losses requires a protein intake of
at least 1.75 grams protein/kg LBM (0.8 grams/ lb of bodyweight) OR 150 grams of protein, whichever is higher.

For lighter individuals, 1.75 g/kg of protein may be less than 150 grams, in which case protein should be adjusted upwards to avoid nitrogen losses. After the third week of ketosis, when the major protein sparing adaptations have taken place, protein intake can be adjusted downwards as necessary. Please note that this value was determined for individuals who are not exercising and are consuming minimal carbohydrates.

If an individual is exercising, it is assumed that protein requirements are higher than the minimum of 1.75 grams/kg (~0.8 grams/lb). A protein intake of 0.9 grams of protein/lb of total bodyweight is an appropriate protein level to start at. Although this is slightly higher than the values suggested above, we can assume that extra protein is necessary during the initial phases
of adaptation.

If an individual is consuming even marginal amounts of carbohydrates (30 grams), then less protein is necessary to achieve a positive nitrogen balance. Recall from the previous chapter that 1 gram of protein will produce 0.58 grams of glucose. So 2 grams of protein will produce a little more than 1 gram of glucose. Therefore, for every gram of carbohydrate consumed on a
ketogenic diet, protein requirements should go down by 2 grams. Someone consuming the maximum of 30 grams of carbohydrate per day could reduce protein intake by approximately 15 grams per day.

So there's your answer. As far as not feeling any different, it's been all of 4 days. Very rarely does something dramatic happen in 4 days time.

Thanks.

middleagedmeh

This diet you are trying, according to a kidney Dr that i worked with, should not be done for longer than six weeks. You can harm your kidneys doing this. Ketoacidosis is experienced by diabetics, its not a state you want to keep your body in to lose weight. Leaving carbs off for long periods of time can lead to renal calculi also. Kidney stones are no fun.

You would be much better served in the long run to get on a 1500 cal a day diet and not have to deprive yourself of anything.

Ketosis is NOT the same thing as Ketoacidosis.

In addition to upping your protein -
You can measure *roughly* your ketone levels with ketostix things. You don't have to get deep purple or anything, as long as you have some ketones, you're in ketosis. They're available at Wal Mart, Walgreens, etc by the supplies for diabetics. They are not essential by any means. I honestly could care less if I'm in ketosis as long as I'm losing.

Also, I never know when I'm in ketosis exactly. I don't get the breath (I don't think and my husband has never commented), I don't get the metallic taste. You may be in ketosis but not experience those things.

Make sure you're drinking plenty of water and getting in sodium. Also, I notice you're eating nuts and seeds. Be careful eating those while trying to get into ketosis and the amounts...specifically the pistachios. I don't see fiber as one of your columns, and its COMPLETELY up to you, but you can change one of your columns to that to get a better idea of net carbs (as long as what nutrition information you're entering don't already account for net carbs).

I highly recommend going over to the keto group and reading some of the pinned threads. ETA: Just kidding...I meant the pinned threads in the "Low Carber Daily Forum". Good information there.

Thanks.
I do look at net carbs on the app. Not sure why it doesn't show it on the web.

sljohnson1207

Comments regarding your diary.

I don't know your stats, but your calorie level seems awfully low for a male, unless you are very short and small.
In other words, the deficit seems too large.

No water is logged. You need a minimum of 64 oz. per day, and while adjusting to ketosis, I'd say double that, as ketogenic diets are naturally diuretic, and you're going to urinate a lot.

During transition, do not limit sodium, in fact, use it. Also, if you get cramps, take a magnesium/potassium supplement.

Eating apples, carrots, peas, and buttermilk, I doubt you will actually get into ketosis. These are more for maintenance because the carrots and peas are starchy vegetables, milk and fruit prohibited for induction into ketosis, as they contain too many carbohydrates to get you into ketogenic state because they up your overall carb intake. Generally speaking, to get into ketosis most folks need to consume 20-25 NET carbs per day. Tomatoes and onions are okay, but are veggies higher in carbs for much smaller portions. Try greens of all kinds, summer squashes, cucumbers, celery, mushrooms, etc. that have much lower NET carbs than tomatoes and onions.

NET carbs are as follows: carbohydrates - fiber - sugar alcohols = NET carbs. You need to change one of your columns on the website to show fiber so we can see how many NET carbs you are having. Currently, I see days with 98, 45, 39, 37, but have not idea how much is fiber.

Artificial sweeteners stall some people. You aren't consuming a lot of them, so I doubt this is an issue.

Nuts are generally not recommended for the transition into ketosis, but may be eaten once in ketosis in small amounts, as long as it doesn't stop your weight loss....transition may take two weeks or longer. Four days is nothing. If all you've had is a little headache and are urinating more than usual, that is normal. Depending on how much water your body holds and how big your glycogen stores were, you may not see rapid/dramatic weight loss.

Exercising heavy is not recommended during transition. Take it easy. Keep your protein higher during transition to spare muscle tissue. Most recommend approximately 150 g. protein during this time, and it can be lowered once in ketosis.

Make sure you are eating fats. At least 65% of your calories should be from fats.

Camo_xxx

^ agreed

The classic approach to induction does not include , artificial sweeteners, carrots, nuts , balsamic vinager, buttermilk, tomatoes and a few others you have been eating. May be fine later on after induction. Also may want to add them back 1 at a time and slowly.

middleagedmeh

Comments regarding your diary.

I don't know your stats, but your calorie level seems awfully low for a male, unless you are very short and small.
In other words, the deficit seems too large.

No water is logged. You need a minimum of 64 oz. per day, and while adjusting to ketosis, I'd say double that, as ketogenic diets are naturally diuretic, and you're going to urinate a lot.

During transition, do not limit sodium, in fact, use it. Also, if you get cramps, take a magnesium/potassium supplement.

Eating apples, carrots, peas, and buttermilk, I doubt you will actually get into ketosis. These are more for maintenance because the carrots and peas are starchy vegetables, milk and fruit prohibited for induction into ketosis, as they contain too many carbohydrates to get you into ketogenic state because they up your overall carb intake. Generally speaking, to get into ketosis most folks need to consume 20-25 NET carbs per day. Tomatoes and onions are okay, but are veggies higher in carbs for much smaller portions. Try greens of all kinds, summer squashes, cucumbers, celery, mushrooms, etc. that have much lower NET carbs than tomatoes and onions.

NET carbs are as follows: carbohydrates - fiber - sugar alcohols = NET carbs. You need to change one of your columns on the website to show fiber so we can see how many NET carbs you are having. Currently, I see days with 98, 45, 39, 37, but have not idea how much is fiber.

Artificial sweeteners stall some people. You aren't consuming a lot of them, so I doubt this is an issue.

Nuts are generally not recommended for the transition into ketosis, but may be eaten once in ketosis in small amounts, as long as it doesn't stop your weight loss....transition may take two weeks or longer. Four days is nothing. If all you've had is a little headache and are urinating more than usual, that is normal. Depending on how much water your body holds and how big your glycogen stores were, you may not see rapid/dramatic weight loss.

Exercising heavy is not recommended during transition. Take it easy. Keep your protein higher during transition to spare muscle tissue. Most recommend approximately 150 g. protein during this time, and it can be lowered once in ketosis.

Make sure you are eating fats. At least 65% of your calories should be from fats.

I should have talked to you before i started this. thanks for the advice :-)
I have eliminated the peas and tomatoes the last 2 days since they made it difficult to get to the goal.
With the raised protein goal i won't have a problem reaching my fat need. The carrots really were there just as a way to get enough fat in (i am weird, i like to put a little butter on carrots). I can take them out painlessly.
Nuts are a nice snack to have. I used to have just milk for breakfast which i had to remove. I will just start making an omelet at night and eating it in the morning. Breakfast is always chaotic because i get up before anybody and basically go to work while the family is still asleep. I like something on the go.

FYI: I am short (165cm)

middleagedmeh

ok. we can adjust that. thanks.

sljohnson1207

You're welcome. One more thing, weigh all your solid foods in grams on a food scale, and measure your liquids in spoons and cups.

Camo_xxx

Menu idea for a breakfast on the run:

I grab 2 hard boiled eggs and a string cheese. Easy to eat in the car.

JuicylucyDavis

String cheese = win and has saved me from cheating soooo many times.