Ideas about Diet and Exercise

BringbackGrok

Hi, I'm new and I'd just like to poll the forum. Please reply with A or B (which ideology you would say you would identify with most closely)

A

Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food. Minimize fat intake. Minimize Saturated Fat intake. Eat healthy whole grains. Eat lots of vegetables and fruit. Make sure most of your exercise is heavy cardio with a little bit of resistance training in there. Resistance training should isolate individual muscle groups well. Exercise heavily with cardio most days of the week. Egg whites are great for you. Avoid egg yolk due to dietary fat and cholesterol. Cook with vegetable oil/canola oil/olive oil. Red meat is to be minimized. Minimize sunlight exposure.

B

Calories in/Calories out is virtually irrelevant. Eat real food (real food = plants as they come out of the ground or animals/fish that eat plants in their natural state). Eat plenty of healthy fats and do not worry about saturated fat intake. Minimize foods that are high glycemic. Minimize daily glycemic load. Try to maximize omega 3:6 ratio in a general sense. Eat above-ground vegetables liberally. Moderate consumption of fruits, tubers and legumes. Berries are best fruit choice. ELIMINATE wheat. Other grains such as rice may be eaten but very infrequently. Avoid corn, soy. 100% grass fed red meat is one of the healthiest food items and should be eaten regularly. Cook with coconut oil, butter ghee. Egg yolks are one of the most densely nutritional foods and pastured eggs are a great food source. Do lots of low level exercise such as walking. Avoid sitting. Avoid cardio. Do a few heavy lifting workout routines per week (2 sessions no longer than 30 minutes) doing full body functional movements without muscle isolation. Eat until you are full and eat whenever you are hungry. Sprint every now and then. Have fun playing lots of sports. Maximize sunlight exposure without burning.

Kalikel

I guess A, but when you try to put people into one of two things, very few will fit exactly in either and I'm no exception.

juggernaut1974

C - None of the above

ETA: Not that I don't agree with parts of both options - but taken as a whole neither option is particularly attractive.

Luckily life isn't governed by false dichotomies.

GiveMeCoffee

Hi, I'm new and I'd just like to poll the forum. Please reply with A or B (which ideology you would say you would identify with most closely)

A

Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food. Minimize fat intake. Minimize Saturated Fat intake. Eat healthy whole grains. Eat lots of vegetables and fruit. Make sure most of your exercise is heavy cardio with a little bit of resistance training in there. Resistance training should isolate individual muscle groups well. Exercise heavily with cardio most days of the week. Egg whites are great for you. Avoid egg yolk due to dietary fat and cholesterol. Cook with vegetable oil/canola oil/olive oil. Red meat is to be minimized. Minimize sunlight exposure.

B

Calories in/Calories out is virtually irrelevant. Eat real food (real food = plants as they come out of the ground or animals/fish that eat plants in their natural state). Eat plenty of healthy fats and do not worry about saturated fat intake. Minimize foods that are high glycemic. Minimize daily glycemic load. Try to maximize omega 3:6 ratio in a general sense. Eat above-ground vegetables liberally. Moderate consumption of fruits, tubers and legumes. Berries are best fruit choice. ELIMINATE wheat. Other grains such as rice may be eaten but very infrequently. Avoid corn, soy. 100% grass fed red meat is one of the healthiest food items and should be eaten regularly. Cook with coconut oil, butter ghee. Egg yolks are one of the most densely nutritional foods and pastured eggs are a great food source. Do lots of low level exercise such as walking. Avoid sitting. Avoid cardio. Do a few heavy lifting workout routines per week (2 sessions no longer than 30 minutes) doing full body functional movements without muscle isolation. Eat until you are full and eat whenever you are hungry. Sprint every now and then. Have fun playing lots of sports. Maximize sunlight exposure without burning.

If you had stopped at "Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food." I would have agreed but going with C. None of the above

_Zardoz_

As above most of us don't fit into one box. Why do want this information? Looking at the other post you made it looks as if you may be selling something

tracie_minus100

Parts of both I guess. Why?

SideSteel

Neither.

onefortyone

Only this part.

"Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food."

brainmusick

The Michael Pollan approach ("Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.") has worked the best for me. So... eat real food, don't eat too much, and eat mostly plants. I also think people don't understand that you can eat as much raw veggies as you want and it'll be good for you. The reason people don't is that a lot of people nowadays don't like vegetables, which is another related problem.

SingRunTing

Hi, I'm new and I'd just like to poll the forum. Please reply with A or B (which ideology you would say you would identify with most closely)

A

Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food. Minimize fat intake. Minimize Saturated Fat intake. Eat healthy whole grains. Eat lots of vegetables and fruit. Make sure most of your exercise is heavy cardio with a little bit of resistance training in there. Resistance training should isolate individual muscle groups well. Exercise heavily with cardio most days of the week. Egg whites are great for you. Avoid egg yolk due to dietary fat and cholesterol. Cook with vegetable oil/canola oil/olive oil. Red meat is to be minimized. Minimize sunlight exposure.

B

Calories in/Calories out is virtually irrelevant. Eat real food (real food = plants as they come out of the ground or animals/fish that eat plants in their natural state). Eat plenty of healthy fats and do not worry about saturated fat intake. Minimize foods that are high glycemic. Minimize daily glycemic load. Try to maximize omega 3:6 ratio in a general sense. Eat above-ground vegetables liberally. Moderate consumption of fruits, tubers and legumes. Berries are best fruit choice. ELIMINATE wheat. Other grains such as rice may be eaten but very infrequently. Avoid corn, soy. 100% grass fed red meat is one of the healthiest food items and should be eaten regularly. Cook with coconut oil, butter ghee. Egg yolks are one of the most densely nutritional foods and pastured eggs are a great food source. Do lots of low level exercise such as walking. Avoid sitting. Avoid cardio. Do a few heavy lifting workout routines per week (2 sessions no longer than 30 minutes) doing full body functional movements without muscle isolation. Eat until you are full and eat whenever you are hungry. Sprint every now and then. Have fun playing lots of sports. Maximize sunlight exposure without burning.

If you had stopped at "Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food." I would have agreed but going with C. None of the above

This.

Why do you assume that people who believe CICO think that you should only do heavy cardio and that egg yolks are the devil? Or that people who believe in the whole food concepts are the only ones who believe in heavy lifting?

juggernaut1974

I also think people don't understand that you can eat as much raw veggies as you want and it'll be good for you. The reason people don't is that a lot of people nowadays don't like vegetables, which is another related problem.

I love vegetables, and the reason people don't "understand" it is because it's not entirely true.

kimny72

All the things in "A" don't necessarily go together. All the things in "B" don't necessarily go together.

So neither.

I have read In Defense of Food twice, and I mostly agree with Pollan's overall philosophy. I think it would make us healthier and be easier on the environment. But you can absolutely "overeat" plants. If I sat on the floor with a giant pile of raw broccoli and just started chomping away, it would definitely NOT be good for me :sick:

alska

i exercise 6 times a week by either going to the ymca or going on a 4 mile hike/walk, i track my calorie intake and eat as clean (and fresh) as i can, keep food simple .... trying not to eat processed food.

BringbackGrok

To those who replied and commented, thank you.

To reply to a few comments, I don't expect many to be 100% A or B. Just getting a feel for where people are at, so I chose a spectrum with conventional wisdom (A) - primal (B) at opposite ends. That's not the spectrum that reflects reality, just one that I chose to address.

To the person that thought I was selling something. No. But if you want to give me money I'm ok with that. Thanks for being generous:) That same person also knows I'm a primal/paleo believer by reading a prior post of mine, so of course I'm heavily biased, but you could tell that from my starting post on this thread anyway.

To those who ask why I want to know? I'm a physician and I want to get a feel for how online lifestyle communities feel along the spectrum that I chose. So, basically PURE CURIOSITY. I had never tried posting on a forum before and thought I'd try it.

To those that ask why I think only those that count calories think egg yolks are the devil? It's not just them. Everyone knows that the devil is hiding in eggs. That's why they came up with devilled eggs.

nicsflyingcircus

Neither of these things.

I do very little exercise and what I do manage to do is body-weight based circuit training. I don't "do cardio" other than to try to move a little more than I used to (with varying success). I try to eat balanced, with moderate fat, including egg yolks and saturated fats. Most of my foods ends up being more whole/unprocessed, simply because I am eating at a large deficit and care to get the most bang for my caloric buck as it were. I try to eat when I am hungry, and not eat when I am not.

I have lost 69lbs, doing what works for me.

BringbackGrok

By the way, I applaud all of you in the diet and exercise community for trying your best to be healthy. We'll all get there if we keep trying and learning. I just wish us in the medical community could be more helpful as a whole. The support of the medical system in primary prevention of chronic disease (aka lifestyle advice) is atrocious.

BringbackGrok

If anyone is interested why I chose those two ends of the spectrum.... in my circle, most people I know are 100% A or B or very close to 100% either, although that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere as indicated by responses so far.

I am 100% B, along with a few friends and family.

Most of my medical collegues are 100% A.


My descriptions of A and B were taken right out of our conversations.

Phrick

Only this part.

"Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food."

Sabine_Stroehm

The Michael Pollan approach ("Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.") has worked the best for me. So... eat real food, don't eat too much, and eat mostly plants. I also think people don't understand that you can eat as much raw veggies as you want and it'll be good for you. The reason people don't is that a lot of people nowadays don't like vegetables, which is another related problem.

I'm more this. Michael Pollan rocks.

I eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. I eat meat, seeds, fruit, dairy, I eat good food.

I limit my refined carbs.

I don't count/weigh/measure. I create a naturally SLOW carb diet.

And I move a lot. Walking, running, Pilates, lifting, cycling....

asdowe13

If anyone is interested why I chose those two ends of the spectrum.... in my circle, most people I know are 100% A or B or very close to 100% either, although that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere as indicated by responses so far.

I am 100% B, along with a few friends and family.

Most of my medical collegues are 100% A.


My descriptions of A and B were taken right out of our conversations.

I find it hard to believe most people you know are 100% one or the other.

CallMeCupcakeDammit

Hi, I'm new and I'd just like to poll the forum. Please reply with A or B (which ideology you would say you would identify with most closely)

A

Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food. Minimize fat intake. Minimize Saturated Fat intake. Eat healthy whole grains. Eat lots of vegetables and fruit. Make sure most of your exercise is heavy cardio with a little bit of resistance training in there. Resistance training should isolate individual muscle groups well. Exercise heavily with cardio most days of the week. Egg whites are great for you. Avoid egg yolk due to dietary fat and cholesterol. Cook with vegetable oil/canola oil/olive oil. Red meat is to be minimized. Minimize sunlight exposure.

B

Calories in/Calories out is virtually irrelevant. Eat real food (real food = plants as they come out of the ground or animals/fish that eat plants in their natural state). Eat plenty of healthy fats and do not worry about saturated fat intake. Minimize foods that are high glycemic. Minimize daily glycemic load. Try to maximize omega 3:6 ratio in a general sense. Eat above-ground vegetables liberally. Moderate consumption of fruits, tubers and legumes. Berries are best fruit choice. ELIMINATE wheat. Other grains such as rice may be eaten but very infrequently. Avoid corn, soy. 100% grass fed red meat is one of the healthiest food items and should be eaten regularly. Cook with coconut oil, butter ghee. Egg yolks are one of the most densely nutritional foods and pastured eggs are a great food source. Do lots of low level exercise such as walking. Avoid sitting. Avoid cardio. Do a few heavy lifting workout routines per week (2 sessions no longer than 30 minutes) doing full body functional movements without muscle isolation. Eat until you are full and eat whenever you are hungry. Sprint every now and then. Have fun playing lots of sports. Maximize sunlight exposure without burning.

If you had stopped at "Eat less. Exercise more. Keep track of your calories. Weigh your food." I would have agreed but going with C. None of the above

Me too. Why would you minimize fat intake?

BringbackGrok

Most in my circle are in fact one or the other. That's my point of reference for this post. I understand that's not a representation of the general public. My circle is not representative of the general public b/c too many doctors are in it. Not that I'm proud of that.

SideSteel

What is your basis for recommending the complete avoidance of soy, corn, and wheat?
What is your basis for recommending the avoidance of cardio?

Do you advise this to patients as part of your profession and if you don't mind me asking what kind of doctor are you?

firebloom

Neither. I would be smack bang in the middle. I agree with calories in, calories out, however I try to make sure that all or most of my calories come from unprocessed healthy foods and I don't really limit things like cholesterol and healthy fats. I avoid refined sugar most of the time and don't touch artificial sweeteners at all. To each their own. For the record, I gained most of my weight while eating an organic, unprocessed diet. While I stand by the health benefits of eating good food, my weight changed significantly once I applied both tactics simultaneously.

BringbackGrok

To answer most recent question, advising patients on lifestyle has nothing to do with my professional responsibilities. I specialize in diagnostics.

I just happened to also get interested in my own health recently so I started looking things up. A medical background helps yes, but I tell you, all of the stuff I learned about diet and exercise is not taught in med school. As a matter of fact, our medical teaching (calories in, calories out, avoid saturated fats, eat lots of whole grains etc... basically A) is contradictory.

It is also extremely out of date, embarrassingly. We learned all of this in the 1960s-1970s and started advising patients accordingly. Since then, virtually ALL chronic diseases have exploded - and this is NOT because we are able to diagnose things better. We haven't changed our advice since then. Those things we learned back then were based on complete garbage evidence that would be laughed at today. Yet, ironically, the medical profession now demands solid evidence to return to the ways before industrialization of our food supply. In other words, yes please screw us up without any need for evidence, but you better have solid evidence to fix us. What? You mean just using common sense and doing what we did before we screwed up isn't enough? Apparently not. And to wait for "solid good evidence", we will need 50 years of randomized controlled trials. I don't feel like waiting that long. I'm sure soon we will need evidence for the use of bike helmets and seatbelts.

To be clear... I am not bashing medicine entirely. People do live longer nowadays, but the quality of life while living is not better. It may be worse. Yes, we are great at unclogging the artery, but we are now just as good at getting that artery clogged in the first place.

I agree with one of Pollan's concepts which is to eat whole foods. That's a great start and a great way to keep garbage out of your systems.

However, I think a step up from Pollan's stuff is to also pay attention to what causes inflammation in the body, as inflammation is the common starting point for many chronic diseases (heart disease, autoimmune disease, and even cancer). Yes there is genetic predisposition, but environment really dictates whether these genes are expressed.

You asked why I recommend staying away from wheat, corn, soy and I should have also said SUGAR, is because they are now products of agribusiness and are virtually ubiquitous in our foods in large quantities. We told people to stay away from fats, and now they are replacing fats with all of this industrialized garbage. This is the grand central station of inflammation. Enter, chronic disease.

Calories in calories out is too deceiving. It doesn't discriminate on what foods are taken in, which is the whole point! I did a calorie count when I was 205 lb (about 2500 cal per day with lots exercise) and now when I am 160lb with a lot of muscle (close to 3800 calories per day with much less exercise). Lipid profile also improved tremendously. It's not how much you eat, it's entirely what you eat. Calories from a 100% grass fed steak or a stalk of broccoli do not equate to the same calories in sugar or wheat etc. The metabolic effects, inflammatory effects, glycemic effects of foods are what change your body and that's what your body sees. And these factors are what makes your body decide whether to use energy or store it. This can be overlooked if one just looks at the energy count in foods. It distracts us from what is actually harming us. And if you eat foods that are antiinflammatory, it is actually a struggle to put on weight no matter how much you eat!

As for Cardio, it's inflammatory by nature because it's usually a lengthy process. Plus it really isn't physiologic. We didn't really do much of that while we were evolving... so why would it be good for us now? We exerted ourselves in bursts of energy or we moved around slowly..... if we wasted our energy doing prolonged cardio we would be easy prey! I'm not super anti-cardio and on this forum I'll be crucified for this paragraph of course, but my cardiologist colleagues point me to evidence that marathoners and triatheles do have an increased risk of early cardiac death, but then they prescribe intense cardio to patients! I just feel that there should be some re-thinking around this, and there certainly has been. (Primal Blueprint, and especially Body by Science are great examples of books, the last of which is heavily evidence based)

BringbackGrok

And it's not really the question of who is right/who is wrong that bothers me, it's that our profession as a whole ISN'T EVEN TRYING to budge from outdated thinking that is clearly counterproductive to health. And this results in crucial information not reaching the public.

meridianova

i think i understand what you were attempting to do with the A vs. B setup. it's not a question of right vs. wrong, but "out of these two camps of thinking, which one do you agree with more."

i fall into camp B. i've gotten into more than one discussion *coughargumentcough* with people here regarding the validity of "calories in < calories out = weight loss." i don't think it's as much a question of math, but the source of the energy... meaning eating foods that allow my body to easily access the existing fat stores rather than relying on blood glucose for energy.

however, i think exercise should be tailored to what your personal physical goals are. if cardio is your thing, go for it. if you want to bulk up and get cut, go for it. if you want to consistently ONLY work on one set of muscles for whatever reason, again... go for it. its your body.

jrline

Tracking Calories in versus Calories out eat real food drink plenty of water. Don't try to eliminate any food you enjoy sets you up for failure.

BringbackGrok

Yes, focusing on calories in-calories out would be like bombing Australia when Finland is the one attacking you. (Selection of countries was geographically random for that example For the record I have friends from both and I'd love to travel to both.

Although this could result in temporary weight loss for some, it's not a way to focus on the origin of most health problems, including the ones that you may not be feeling the effects from YET.

The real question is - is the food you are eating working FOR you or AGAINST you? Both with respect to weight goals AND health.

Yeah I agree with respect to fitness goals, that's a tough one. But evidence is mounting on being able to increase cardiovascular endurance performance without having to go through the inflammation of chronic cardio training. Our bodies really aren't as simple and linear as we once thought.

BringbackGrok

and Yes Meridianova, that's what I was trying to get at with the A/B setup.

SideSteel

You're making this into a false dichotomy. One can track calorie and macro nutrient intake while still focusing on eating a nutrient dense diet. It is not an either or.

For an obese person, do you think the inclusion of a moderate amount of cardiovascular training will provide a net benefit Or a net detriment to someone who was previously sitting on the couch?