Non IFing experiment :)

chrisdavey

Full details here http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1365753-non-ifing-experiment

N=1 experiment complete.



First 7 weeks of cut I went from 8.39% at 83.9kg to 80.9kg at 7.44%.
This represented a fat loss of 1.kg and LBM loss of 1.92kg. (During this time I was skipping breakfast and eating first meal at midday ish)

For the following 7 weeks I added a protein feeding in the morning of 1 serve of bcaas and 1 protein bar. 30g protein total.
I went from 80.9kg at 7.44% to 80kg at 6.29%. (this one was at midday though so probably closer to 79kg in the morning)
This represented a fat loss of 1kg and an increase in LBM of 100g. (If I were to use 79kg BW, fat loss is 1.1kg and and LBM loss is 800g)

As the second part of the cut was lower calories and I was lower BF% I would have expected more LBM losses in that time period compared to the first. So my conclusion is that , FOR ME, when I am at a very low bf% having an additional protein feeding i.e. not fasting is beneficial for preservation of LBM.

Training remained the same during the whole cut. 4x a week strength training, LISS cardio on the recumbent bike when I watch TV. The only time it changed is during the last 2 weeks when I have done CKD and I only did strength training twice as I just didn't have the energy to do any more.

Protein intake average is around 200g while calories were higher. (approximately 2.67g/kg of LBM) And during PSMF for the final 2 weeks, protein average is 250g (3.34g/kg of LBM)

I hope this experiment is beneficial to someone else other than me

Cortelli

Well I for one find this fascinating, even if the study is n=1. Thank you for sharing.

I have considered going the IF route, but just really don't think it is for me (note: I have *not* tried it; just don't think I'd be very happy with it). My breakfasts are almost always protein heavy -- protein powder in my coffee and usually a greek yogurt, sometimes an English muffin. But in any event, I am almost always getting 24g or more of protein within an hour or two of waking up. It makes intuitive sense to me that having protein after a fast (sleeping) would help preserve lean mass, but so much about body composition, weight loss, preservation of lean mass, gaining, etc. just doesn't conform to "intuitive sense." I have heard a few whispers about a study soon-to-be-published that finds something interesting about protein loading both before and after a sleep cycle, but to my knowledge it hasn't been published and therefore is meaningless.

Given I don't think IF is for me, and I have this intuitive sense that getting a slug of protein after sleeping is beneficial, I'll use your n=1 experiment as absolute, inviolable, the science-is-settled, confirmation that I am doing the right thing. (Actually, I'll keep doing what I am doing because I enjoy it; if it turns out to be the right thing across some believable studies, all's the better!). My next hydro is likely to be early November, just when I expect to be completing my current cut down to somewhere around 10% BF if I do a decent job of preserving LBM. I'll pair it with a DEXA on the same morning for comparison. I will be eagerly awaiting my LBM number until then!

Again, thanks for sharing!

chrisdavey

No probs mate

Good luck with your experiment!

And yep, I agree that if your current meal frequency is working so that you can hit your daily totals then stick with it.

I would hazard a guess that the results would be different in terms of LBM preservation with higher BF% also as the body has other stores to choose from.

nicsflyingcircus

Where are you getting routine DEXA scans? I was trying to figure my LBM, BF%, etc... only places I could find that offered the scan were basically osteoporosis related.

Cortelli

I would hazard a guess that the results would be different in terms of LBM preservation with higher BF% also as the body has other stores to choose from.

Yeah - I don't expect to lose much LBM, based on a prior cut. With my double digit BF% I fully expect (in fact, Demand!) my body to make up the deficit from fat stores only.

vismal

I would be very interested to see results if you kept the bcaas but dropped the protein.

Cortelli

Where are you getting routine DEXA scans? I was trying to figure my LBM, BF%, etc... only places I could find that offered the scan were basically osteoporosis related.

For me (in Northern California) there's a private business really close by that just does DEXAs. Much of their business is doctor referrals for osteoporosis stuff, but based on my one trip and the patients before and after me (and chatting up the receptionist), they do a healthy clip of business among fitness buffs just looking to track status. I can also go to Stanford University's sports medicine clinic to get one (but it is more expensive).

I believe Chris is in AUS.

Do a Google search for DEXA scans in your area. I bet if you give them a call, you'll find that you can get a scan done, and they'll speak to you more about LBM and BF than bone density - the scan is more or less the same. My DEXA did highlight that I was perhaps a little on the low side for bone density for my age -- prompted me to start taking a calcium supplement.

nicsflyingcircus

Where are you getting routine DEXA scans? I was trying to figure my LBM, BF%, etc... only places I could find that offered the scan were basically osteoporosis related.

For me (in Northern California) there's a private business really close by that just does DEXAs. Much of their business is doctor referrals for osteoporosis stuff, but based on my one trip and the patients before and after me (and chatting up the receptionist), they do a healthy clip of business among fitness buffs just looking to track status. I can also go to Stanford University's sports medicine clinic to get one (but it is more expensive).

I believe Chris is in AUS.

Do a Google search for DEXA scans in your area. I bet if you give them a call, you'll find that you can get a scan done, and they'll speak to you more about LBM and BF than bone density - the scan is more or less the same. My DEXA did highlight that I was perhaps a little on the low side for bone density for my age -- prompted me to start taking a calcium supplement.

Thanks. I thought of just calling one of the clinics, but hadn't quite worked up to it yet. I've always been told I have heavy bones, even before I was fat, so that would be interesting too.

Do you know of any reason a metal implant would interfere with the scan? I have rougly 20" worth of titanium in one of my legs.

Cortelli

Do you know of any reason a metal implant would interfere with the scan? I have rougly 20" worth of titanium in one of my legs.

That might be a problem - you'll have to ask. I was told I needed to wear clothing with no metal (snaps, zippers, etc.) - not sure about implanted titanium.

If you can't get a DEXA because of the titanium, go for a hydrostatic weighing or maybe a bodpod. I do hydros every three months through a mobile van that comes to my gym. At my penultimate hydro, I did a DEXA the same morning so I could compare the results between the two - they were very, very close. As I mentioned in my first response, I think I am going to do a DEXA again this next time around again in early November to once again compare to the hydro results.

chrisdavey

Yeah, I'm in Australia so not very helpful sorry.

I would be very interested to see results if you kept the bcaas but dropped the protein.

I can't see myself cutting this hard again in the near future (unless I do another comp) but may just do that next time.

Next experiment will be slightly lower protein intake (hopefully about 150g (I like meat )) and much higher carb intake as I reverse.