The 4-Hour Body / Slow-Carb Diet

mcferg

Circadianswing - the difference is very obvious. Great job!

Shannon - the thing about the biggest loser is that the contestants are so big that they probably burn 2-3 times the amount of calories you do, even if they're sedentary, but in addition, as you said they eat only 1100 calories per day AND workout just about ALL DAY LONG.

They're getting paid. It's their JOB to lose weight. Think about it - if you could take 12 weeks or whatever off of your "regular life" to focus on fitness and weight loss, how would you look at the end of it? I fantasize about it all the time. I keep wishing they'd do a season of TBL or some other show that takes people like me...folks that aren't morbidly obese, but are chubby or doughy and really whip them into shape!

eponai

@stephanie, i can totally relate to you. eating has always been my therapy, and it think its that way for a lot of people, otherwise there wouldn't be so many meals deemed as "comfort food". recognizing behavior is the first step to changing it though!

@mcferg, agreed on the notion that ferriss is rich narcissist that stumbled upon something that works, and how ironic it is that he comes up with a long term plan you can stick to, as opposed to all the educated nutritionists and diet doctors. must be nice.

@circadianswing, nice job, you are looking good!

i'm a little wary of the cheat day. i gained 6 of the 8 pounds i've lost this weekend. it's wednesday and i'm still 5 pounds above where i was pre-cheat last friday.

if we diet all week to lose weight and gain it back in one day, how sustainable is this? harumph.

walkers345

Wow! CIrcadian, you can really see a difference, great job! That is so encouraging!

Welcome Andrea, that curry chicken sounds really good, thanks for the good idea.

Happy Wednesday everyone! Feeling re-invigorated and ready to finish the week strong.

Stephanie

circadianswing

Great job circadianswing you're on your way! How tall are you? We both started around the same time with SCD and around the same weight. 225 lbs for me and I'm 5'8". Goal is around 165 so I got quite a few more pounds to lose.

@motufit - I am 6'2" and started the diet on Jan 3rd.

if we diet all week to lose weight and gain it back in one day, how sustainable is this? harumph.

@eponai - I have been experiencing a similar situation... I am actually the same weight as I was mid February, and I seem to gain 6-7lbs on cheat day. while I don't want to avoid the mental need for going nuts on food, I'm feeling like I need to maybe try a disciplined day with very little extra.

@mcferg - i totally agree about your Tim Ferriss observation, but appears his eccentricities have paid dividends to us, so I'm thankful!

@andrea - the curry chicken does sound good... unfortunately for me, my wife is pregnant, and currently can't stand the smell of onions, garlic, curry, fish, etc, in the house, so I'm limited but will keep some of these good recipe ideas on file.

Thanks everyone for the good feedback!

sbracken

@mcferg.....I know! I'd love to be able to take 12 weeks and do nothing but worry about what I was eating and working out. I'd be in fitness model shape if I did that. Especially if I had a trainer working me out several times a day. At 142 lbs and 5'7" with a tiny frame my calorie burn is pretty low (base 1700 cals), so losing more than a pound a week is really tough for me without dieting and working out like a crazy person. And I just don't have the time for that kind of gym time and don't want to drop below 1200 cals per day. I think that would be a great season of TBL! I'd make sure I tuned in ever week. Sure the big weight losses and physical change and changing of these peoples lives is motivating, but I just can't relate to most of them. Now get your avg. 30-40 lb overweight person on there and get them ripped in 12 weeks......that's something I'd make sure to tune in for and probably take notes along the way.

@circadianswing, great job!!!! It's an awesome feeling when you can start to actually see the results on yourself isn't it?

@eponai, the "weight" you gain on your cheat day is water weight. Watch your sodium inake and up your water intake and you won't gain as much and it will drain off easier.

VagabondAndrea

Thank you guys for the warm welcome!

I love to cook, so for me I am actually having a fun time with this. I am re-teachig myself to cook with fresh flavors to accommodate with the strict guidelines. I am starting to wonder how an egg on top of a small black bean burger with salsa and cilantro might work out for breakfast. Didn't really enjoy my breakfast this morning, tasted blah and looked even more blah.

For lunch I had organic, veggie fed beef quickly sauteed with canola oil, red wine vinegar, chili powder, paprika, cayenne pepper, salt, mini bell peppers, jalapenos, red onion, garlic, and some radishes for good measure over black beans, and topped with cilantro. Tasted so good, very satisfying. If my daughter doesn't eat the leftovers, I will have them for dinner.

Hope you guys don't mind me sharing most of my food, as I hope it will keep me on track

@circadianswing - hello, sounds to me like you are kind of limited on the cooking front. I couldn't stand the smell of roasted garlic for some reason when I was pregnant, so I understand. Does she mind stuff like ginger and bell peppers, or is it just all potent items?

circadianswing

Hope you guys don't mind me sharing most of my food, as I hope it will keep me on track

@circadianswing - hello, sounds to me like you are kind of limited on the cooking front. I couldn't stand the smell of roasted garlic for some reason when I was pregnant, so I understand. Does she mind stuff like ginger and bell peppers, or is it just all potent items?

Love to get the new recipes, I'm one of those who can eat the same thing over and over, so I am good with my evening chicken, but i really should expand over the long run. You know I only find out after the fact on what she can and can't handle... i can tell you the day I tried to make a pork tenderloin, I almost got thrown out of the house.

Hey Shannon, I am excited, and 2 of my friends ran out to buy the book, so I know people are seeing it as well.

eponai

@eponai - I have been experiencing a similar situation... I am actually the same weight as I was mid February, and I seem to gain 6-7lbs on cheat day. while I don't want to avoid the mental need for going nuts on food, I'm feeling like I need to maybe try a disciplined day with very little extra.

hm, so it sounds like i should tone down the cheat day a bunch and drink massive amounts of water?

i had eggs benedict, a mimosa, some beer, and a bunch of tapas food for dinner that included things like deviled eggs, mini grilled cheeses, a slider, and a little steak. tallying it up, the booze brought it almost to 3000 cals. whoa. :noway:

can someone please make a pill that makes beer have no effect on your waistband? k, thx!

mcferg

can someone please make a pill that makes beer have no effect on your waistband? k, thx!

Put me down for a lifetime supply!
My problem with beer is that, unlike other alcohol (like wine), I never seem to tire of drinking it. I love the way it tastes. I love the fact that it's 12 oz refreshing beverage. Not only that, on a Saturday or Sunday, I can have a beer around noon. I never drink, nor do I want to drink wine, before dinner. Don't get me wrong - I really like wine too. The thing is, on a cheat day, I might have a beer with lunch, then it's all downhill from there. By the end of the day, I've consumed 1,000 calories from the beer alone, but it's also lead to a bunch of extra snacking that I wouldn't have done otherwise.

So what I'm thinking is only allowing myself beer every other cheat day. Or just limit it to 2 or something. I dunno.

Part of me doesn't want to. Cheat day is for uninhibited cheating. So far, I've cheated pretty much to my heart's content, and I've continued to lose weight, albeit gradually (I'm down 9.5 lbs in 8 weeks). However, one of the reasons this is sustainable is BECAUSE of the cheat day. I don't ever even think about cheating midweek, because I know I can have whatever I want at the end of it.

dyslexicduck

On my two biggest cheat days, which were super bowl Sunday and last Sunday (my sister's birthday), I gained ~5-6 lbs and lost it by Wednesday or Thursday morning. Furthermore, last Sunday I did not do the recommended exercises either.

I weigh myself before and after breakfast in an attempt to gauge how dehydrated/hungry I am. The pre-breakfast weigh-ins go down much faster after the cheat weight is lost, while the post breakfast one (after going to the bathroom) seems to be a more stable reading and returns to pre-cheat levels no later than Wednesday in all cases. For the two lighter cheat days this happened on Tuesday. I don't know if this is a way to gauge water retention or something, but there's no way I can eat enough to gain 5 lbs in 1 day.

According to the weigh-in before my last cheat day I'm down 15 lbs in 4 weeks. Not the 20 lbs promised, but not bad either.

On a slight tangent has anyone tried to make Mike Mahler's protein cookie things? http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/proteinbars.html

I saw some whey protein on sale and decided to give the Vanilla Almond Protein Bar a try and when adding the recommended amount of water it seems to form a soup that never thickens even after doubling the amount of protein powder. If I add a much smaller amount of water an incredibly sticky paste forms that cooks much faster than the time given and is tasteless (more spice maybe?). Oddly, the uncooked mixture has an overwhelming spice flavor.

sbracken

I usually opt for beer on cheat day as well! And yep, usually around noon. This past weekend I had 2 while we were at the tattoo convention. We went to grab the first one and I knew it was still early in the day, so I checked my watch....."Yep, it's after 12, get me a beer!" But I can't wrap my head around drinking a glass of wine that early. Unless it like a fancy lunch out or something, then maybe.....but I'm content with just a Diet Coke or water for lunch. Now, dinner on the other hand.....I have to have my wine. If I don't have wine then it's sparkling mineral water or a rum and diet. Beer at dinner seems strange to me sometimes. If we're out eating wings or pizza then it seems to just fit. But to have a beer with something like chicken/rice/veggies just doesn't seem right to me.

My cheat days are regularly over 3000 calories. I usually "gain" 1-2lbs come Sunday morning. The weight is usually gone by Wed. This week it took until this morning to disappear plus an additional 0.4lbs. Yippie!!!!

eponai

@mcferg, i am right there with you. i could drink beer all day long. it's perfect on a saturday when the sun is out and you've been out working in the garden or around the house. yeah, i would never drink wine in the garden! wine def seems ot be a "food pairing" sort of beverage.

@sbracken, ok, i feel better about all those cals on cheat day then! still haven't made it back to my pre-cheat weight though, got 3 more pounds to go.......

i completely forgot about the recommended exercises. more squats! and has anyone been doing the damage control things, like citrus juice before a cheat meal?

mcferg

Well, here it is, the Thursday after my Sunday cheat day, and I'm still up 1.5 lbs. This has been more the rule than the exception for me over the last month. Of course, I lost 3 lbs last week, so, I'd actually be thrilled to just get back to that weight again by Sunday (and I think I probably will). It doesn't seem to matter that much either how much I gain on cheat day.

It's not a big deal. I've yet to have a week where I didn't lose the weight by cheat day, and I still have 3 more weigh-ins to go. Also, my parents are in town this weekend, so I'm sure we'll be running around more - doing stuff, which means I won't have any days where I'm sitting at home all day eating.

VagabondAndrea

Came so close to quitting, but I didn't. It's almost Saturday, so I can wait till then. Today, my 4th day was definitely a lot harder than the last 3 days. Today I am very achy, and my "I cannot have it" button almost broke, but it fixed itself

One more day till Saturday!

sbracken

@vagabondandrea....there was a suggestion of writing down your cravings so you remember to have them on your cheat day. The first week was the hardest for me as well. But since then it's been clear sailings!!!! Last week and this week I haven't even had any cravings for teh fatty or sugary foods I had before. Hang in there.....it gets much easier!!!!

@eponai....I keep telling myself I'm going to.....but then never do. I do stick with a SCD breakfast and make sure I'm getting lots of water in during the day. And I drink more caffeine throughout the day as well since I'll have more than jsut one Diet Coke. But that's really it. Oh, and the PAGG supplements. I was off this week, so I'll start back up with them tomorrow.

mcferg

i completely forgot about the recommended exercises. more squats! and has anyone been doing the damage control things, like citrus juice before a cheat meal?

Typically, on cheat day, I remember to take the AGG once (with my first meal) and PAGG before bed. I do exercises throughout the day...since I snack a LOT, it seems like I'm always finishing something or starting something. I usually have grapefruit juice before the first cheat food I eat, then I end up forgetting.

Back to the exercise...I can't remember if I brought this up before... The recommended timing is 60-90 seconds before the meal. Uh - that's not much time. It almost requires you to be holding the food between your teeth WHILE you exercise. And does this also mean that the benefit of it is only good for the first 60-90 seconds? Meaning...it only helps with the first few bites you eat? I imagine Ferris doing a bunch of squats tableside, while making several references to his own *kitten* (with which he is particularly smitten), then immediately eating an entire pizza in 3 bites in the 60-90 second window immediately after.

I mean...sure...I COULD cheat that way, but I wouldn't get to enjoy it.

I do many sets of 75 kettlebell swings (broken up as 5-10-15-15-15-10-5 with 10 seconds between) throughout the day, and try to keep them as close to eating bad things as I can. Last Sunday, I forced myself to do that before every beer that I drank...whether it was accompanied by food or not.

VagabondAndrea

@sbracken, I have started a list and I checked it twice. IPA, chocolate stout, pizza, and a iced soy vanilla latte here I come...on Saturday. Making a list definitely made me realize that these items are not off limits for an extended amount of time, and it gives me something to look forward to!

2lbs down so far this week, I feel as if I have shed a ton of water because of the acheyness, so I may up my salt intake a little tonight to see if that will help.

Heres to week one almost complete! Happy Friday!

Christin09

Back to the exercise...I can't remember if I brought this up before... The recommended timing is 60-90 seconds before the meal. Uh - that's not much time. It almost requires you to be holding the food between your teeth WHILE you exercise. And does this also mean that the benefit of it is only good for the first 60-90 seconds? Meaning...it only helps with the first few bites you eat? I imagine Ferris doing a bunch of squats tableside, while making several references to his own *kitten* (with which he is particularly smitten), then immediately eating an entire pizza in 3 bites in the 60-90 second window immediately after.

I mean...sure...I COULD cheat that way, but I wouldn't get to enjoy it.

@mcferg you only have to PERFORM the exercises for 60-90 seconds a few minutes before the meal and then again 90 minutes later so it appears the effects last for 90 minutes so enjoy that cheat meal

eponai

saddest thing i've read all day:

"Beer just does not simply fit into the slow-carb diet anywhere because maltose in beer metabolizes faster than table sugar and sometimes faster than glucose itself. If you can imagine yourself eating 2 or 3 Krispy Kreme donuts every time you have a bottle of beer, that's roughly the impact you're having on fat gain. I think that's no real exaggeration. So enjoy in moderation or do it as much as you want - on your off day. "

from tim's interview here:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/8TvBBC/www.hackcollege.com/blog/2011/2/22/hackcollege-exclusive-tim-ferriss-tips-to-hack-your-body.html

as i sit here cheating with a fine sierra nevada.

mcferg

@mcferg you only have to PERFORM the exercises for 60-90 seconds a few minutes before the meal and then again 90 minutes later so it appears the effects last for 90 minutes so enjoy that cheat meal

I guess my point is - if it really lasts 90 minutes, then why can't I perform it 15 minutes before I eat. That way, I could exercise, then prepare the food, then eat the food.

Beer just does not simply fit into the slow-carb diet anywhere because maltose in beer metabolizes faster than table sugar and sometimes faster than glucose itself.

I've read A LOT about this in the past. Having been on low-GI diets as well as low-carb diets, I've searched and searched for someone to say that this isn't true, and the thing is - there are conflicting reports. Nobody actually disputes the ridiculously high GI of maltose. What's at debate, though, is how much maltose is actually in beer. After all - the whole purpose of fermentation is to turn sugar into alcohol. What the conflicting sources say is that, while there is a fair bit of maltose present at certain phases of the brewing process, there isn't much maltose in the end product.

Sierra Nevada has 14 grams of carbs per bottle - I wonder how much of that is sugar? I mean - a regular glazed krispy creme has 10g of sugar, and also contains white flour...the analogy seems a bit exaggerated.

When I'm beering it up on the weekends, I generally limit myself to 2 "real" beers, then I switch to Miller Lite. I prefer full bodied beers, but I also enjoy Miller Lite, which is 6g of carbs. I cannot find any information regarding the specific amount of sugar in beer.

Anyway...here's one source (the first one I found via google) that conflicts Ferris:
http://www.beerandcarbs.com/info.htm

I mean, really...think about it - do most beers taste sweet to you? I think that's why I like beer - it's a refreshing cold beverage that's NOT sweet.

That being said, I DO avoid beer other than cheat day, and will continue to do so, because, for me, it's the Grand Moff Tarkin of domino foods.

eponai

it's the Grand Moff Tarkin of domino foods.

absolutely!

and here i am on cheat day, having a morning protein shake, and wondering if i should cheat at all. week 2 has me up 4 pounds and and an inch from last cheat day morning. meaning, i never lost the cheat weight completely.

perhaps i should just have a cheat dinner?

mcferg

and here i am on cheat day, having a morning protein shake, and wondering if i should cheat at all. week 2 has me up 4 pounds and and an inch from last cheat day morning. meaning, i never lost the cheat weight completely.

perhaps i should just have a cheat dinner?

It's a tough call. I haven't dealt with that YET, but I've had several weeks that I didn't lose all of the cheat weight until the morning of cheat day, and even then, I just broke even. My cheat day is Sunday...as of today, I'm still up 0.3 lbs. I do expect (fingers crossed) to get back to last week's pre-cheat day weight tomorrow morning. If I DO, I will do some amount of cheating. If I DON'T, then I will probably not cheat.

I kind of have this deal with myself that I will never cheat unless I am at or under my cheat morning weight from the previous week. I know it will happen at some point. If it does, I'll stay on plan until I'm under cheat weight, then cheat that day, even if it's midweek.

sbracken

My cheat day was supposed to be today......but I was way hungover this morning so I switched it to tomorrow. I'm down 2.2 lbs from pre-cheat last week!!!! It feels like the weight is literally just melting off now. I had a bit of a slow start on this plan, but it seems to be picking up now in weeks 5 and 6.

circadianswing

a whopping 7lb gain after cheat day... this is tough game to play. however, the fish n' chips and all the other stuff I consumed was well worth the mental satisfaction!

mcferg

Well, I guess I jinxed myself by saying that I expect to be down to last week's pre-cheat-day weight by today (cheat day). Yesterday, I was 0.3 lbs up from that weight. Today, I'm 0.8 lbs up from that weight. Oh well.

I'm not cheating today. If I miraculously dump weight the next couple of days, I may allow myself a midweek cheat meal, but really, I don't feel much like cheating. My parents are in town, and we already have meals planned for today that are SCD-friendly, so it would almost be a waste to cheat.

Anyway - I actually think it will be nice not see that scale up so much Monday morning. That said - this IS about the long haul, so I'm trying not to be short sighted. I have no intention of eliminating the cheat meal from the plan. I do feel, though, like I need a mental break from worrying if/when that cheat day weight is going to come off.

bluebird321

I'm working my way through this thread and finding some great info here -- thanks for taking the time to post everybody. Finally, a forum that seems to be taking this diet seriously. I've been on another "weight watchers" website -- they have this topic also, but it seems to be a bit controversial for the average dieter.

I'm starting my fourth week on the diet and have been satisfied with the results so far.

violynist

hey everyone,

i just thought i'd share some stuff i've been trying...& give a progress report.

1. ghee - this is really rich. but good. i have used it a couple times to fry or scramble eggs in. you don't need much, just a little bit.
2. macadamia nut oil - i haven't tried this on eggs yet, but i sauteed garlic in it. it does smell like nut oil, but not bad. we'll see if i can indeed do eggs in it.
3. garlic - i decided to do fresh garlic, one clove/day as i'm concerned about garlic losing its potency and effectiveness when processed. i sauteed it, which was good. i also make a kick-*kitten* salad dressing (soy sauce, olive oil, shredded ginger & garlic, 1 fresh lemon) that i can get a whole clove in without it being yucky.
4. d3 - have started this along with saurkraut. we'll see how it goes. not sure if it will help muscles or not, but i'm giving it a try.
5. l carnitine - i just got this randomly, have only tried one dose. any body-builders out there used this? thought i would try this & perhaps a bottle of lysine just for kicks.
6. hemp protein - i bought this, haven't tried it yet, but will report if it's not good. the protein drinks from melaleuca have corn syrup solids in them, so i am trying to slow my use of them & switch to others.
7. macro greens - i am using this in protein drinks in the morning when i use them. it's cheap & non-intrusive.
8. air squats - do not work for me regularly. my legs bulked up in one week so my scale skirt didn't fit anymore.
9. scale clothes - having met my first 2 goals, i am on to my favorite gray news-reporter-type suit, and my sexy favorite red dress as next goals.
10. ketosis - this is the most interesting one for me, as tim did not mention it in the book, but i definitely hit it a couple weeks in...i think i'm over it now...but it is like the elephant in the room that he did not call out by name, to my recollection.

i had my first super fantastic cheat day. everything was satisfying, i wasn't scarfing down food like i was crazy, and i totally enjoyed the entire day without feeling sick. that was refreshing, because i have experienced the same trouble other people have posted about, with cheat day being either disappointing, with feeling nasty from the foods i ate, or just feeling like i just can't get no, satisfaction...

circadianswing

@bluebird321, welcome to the board topic, great to have you, feel free to chime in with questions and any tweaks you may have found that work.

@violynist - I have been doing the macadamia nut oil instead of butter for eggs, it seems fine, hardly noticeable.

a question for the group, a friend of mine just started and he says he chews sugar free gum, and wanted to know what the rule on that one is... anyone have any thoughts???

violynist

a question for the group, a friend of mine just started and he says he chews sugar free gum, and wanted to know what the rule on that one is... anyone have any thoughts???

i have stopped using sugarless gum completely due to side effects. i won't go into detail. :blushing: googling will yield more information, but this is one example...

http://www.livestrong.com/article/334306-xylitol-gum-side-effects/

as to "rule", i don't recall any...but i might have missed it.

mcferg

@violynist - I don't think Tim mentions ketosis, because I think that, for most people, the amount of carbs afforded you by the legumes will keep you out of ketosis. I've been on low-carb diets before, to the point where I even tested my urine for ketones, so I have a pretty good idea when I am and am not in ketosis. You can get the urine-test sticks pretty cheaply online if you want to test for sure - but everyone is different. Diets like Atkins require you, really, to determine how many carbs you can eat and still stay in ketosis...it might be worth considering how many you must eat to keep yourself out of it, since it makes you feel badly.

So - my week 9 cheat day came and went, and I didn't cheat. In fact I was very good all weekend, but check out the scale (cheat day is Sunday):

Week 8 Sunday: 180.5 lbs
Week 9 Saturday: 180.8 lbs
Week 9 Sunday: 181.5 lbs
Week 9 Monday: 181.9 lbs

I didn't do anything to change my eating any of these days, and all my meals were strict SCD meals. What I'm starting to realize is that, really, my 3 lbs loss last week was a mirage. It happened as a result of water weight below what I call my "balance of water". So now that my water has reached equilibrium (or I hope it has), I should start to lose again. We shall see. The way I look at it, though, is that even at 181.9 lbs, I'm still down 1.5 lbs over the last 2 weeks, and that's just fine. But getting so close to 180 was a big tease.