The 4-Hour Body / Slow-Carb Diet

marchenland

Thanks for the beans and Brussels recipe. I will DEFINITELY try that. Love them sprouts!

1st cheat day today. Some things were delicious. Others were "meh." I think the BEST thing I had was 1) an apple and 2) a plate of locally made pasta carbonara from our favorite restaurant. Next week, I'm going to hit the grocery on Friday night and pick up a few things for the next day. I'd have preferred to start the day with that apple, or some other fruit, than the doughnut my BF brought me.

I'll know tomorrow how much "damage" I did, ha ha. However, while I'm full and relatively happy, I am not feeling sick or overstuffed. I'm definitely ready to face another 6 days of this diet.

marchenland

Does anyone know where coconut falls?

My preferred plain coconut milk coffee creamer has, in 1 tablespoon, 10 calories, 1 gram of carbs, and 1 gram of sugar (I assume that's the same 1 gram, if I understand the Carb / Sugar thing correctly).

The Whole Foods brand coconut milk has, in 1/4 cup, 120 calories, 2 grams of carbs, and 1 gram of sugar. The "Lite" version is 40 calories, 1 gram of carbs, and 1 gram of sugar.

(You can also get coconut yogurt, and you could make it at home without sugar, which might fill the gap for yogurt lovers; here's a recipe for making it without any thickeners: http://angelaskitchen.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/coconut-yogurt/)

Everything I can find online suggests that coconut carbs are complex ones, but I can't find anything definitive.

I can't find anything in the book about coconut milk, coconut oil, or coconut meat. The coconut is a seed, not a fruit, nut, or vegetable. And yeah, it's white, but clearly the white food prohibition is intended as a guideline for carbs, not a rule (chicken, after all, is also white, as are white beans).

My being able to add a small amount of coconut milk to my coffee would make my coworkers much happier people (since my attempts to love black coffee are not working, like, AT ALL).

cutmd

I love Brussel sprouts and sauteed them with black beans and kale for breakfast with 2 whole organic eggs. I took an unearned cheat day since I only just started the diet. Ate at Fogo de Chao and had a little mashed potato and fried banana. Otherwise it wasn't too bad. Gotta be good this week!

cheerbabe080790

I lost 2.5 lbs after my cheat day which is very odd. i was bracing myself this morning with the scale expecting to see at least a pound or two. so i wonder what's going to happen tomorrow. Did anybody else lose after their cheat days?

mcferg

Well...I had my second cheat day yesterday. It wasn't as overboard as the first. I was not uncomfortable at any point. I didn't go off track until around noon. I had a high-protein breakfast, complete with veggies and beans. Around noon, I had taco bell for lunch, but I only had 1 item - one of those new burritos with the fritos in them. Then I had a few oreos. We went to a birthday party later in the day...my main meal there was just tri-tip and salad (small portions of both, no dressing), but I did have a few tortilla chips with queso and several beers...and a genache-filled german chocolate cupcake. Later, after we got back, I had a bunch of goldfish crackers.

I didn't log it, but if I had to guess, I'd say my intake for the day was in the ballpark of 3,500 calories. Last week, I probably ate closer to 5,000 calories on cheat day. Today, my weight was up 3.5 lbs, which I'm actually pretty happy with. I drank 3 full liters of water with those goldfish, and I think that probably has more to do with the weight than anything. Last week, I was up 5 or 6 lbs after cheat day, so I feel pretty good about this. The way I feel right now (which is pretty terrific, actually), I think the cheat day weight will come off by Tuesday or Wednesday (whereas it took until Thursday last week).

The day was a success. I didn't go too crazy, and I got to eat some things I've been thinking about a little this week (like oreos and taco bell), and I'm ready to get back on track.

So - here's my question du jour:

What do you guys think about vegetable juice (V-8)? I really do enjoy vegetables, and I have been eating TONS of them since I started this, but, particularly after cheat day, eating veggies early in the morning isn't very appealing. The truth is, after my cheat day, eating in the morning isn't appealing at all. I'd rather just wait until lunch, but I know that's a no-no, so I try to have a small breakfast ready to go. Today, it was a hardboiled egg with a small piece of chicken, a small portion of refried beans and a small glass of V-8. I didn't even want this. It's not like I had to choke it down, but I'd have rather skipped it. If I had to add actual veggies to this meal, I dunno...it just sounded kind of gross this morning...

marchenland

V-8 has beets in it, so that might give me pause. Juicing the vegetables (tomatoes, onions, garlic, celery, watercress, spinich, and carrots, plus worcestershire, pepper, and salt) without the beets might be a better answer. Of course, juicing can be time consuming.

I'm up 4 lbs after cheat day, sorta - actually up 2 from the Saturday morning, but 4 from my lowest weight last week, and anyway, I'm heading into my period, so I'm not even paying careful attention to the scale right now. I lost at least 3 inches in Week 1 - maybe more, b/c everything went down ~1/2 an inch except my waist, which went UP 1/2 an inch, but I think we measured wrong the first time.

cutmd

Alright, I am going to be bad and make my own list of slow carbs. I am aiming for the recommended beans as my carbs, but adding in oatmeal, popcorn, and even sweet potatoes on an as needed basis. I will keep a hard line on gluten, sugar, and dairy, etc, but I love doing my cardio and strength training and don't want to end up cheating post workout on the stuff I know makes me gain because my blood sugar dipped. If that inspires the group to kick me out, I'll understand

cheerbabe080790

lol y should they kick you out for your own preference ? that's silly. I eat a banana sometimes. No one ever got fat from eating fruit and i think in the book he writes a lot of things for men because he is a man. For women some of this stuff just doesn't make sense. Fruit actually helps regulate your menstrual cycle, and he says not eat it. Women need more carbs then men do, and he says not to eat them. Also he says dairy is bad but women should actually eat a full serving of full dairy fat a day to stay regular and healthy. I think this diet has relatively good guidelines and its easy to follow but for some people a little deviation is necessary!

tonymccollum

I've been on the diet now for a couple weeks and it's going well. I am wondering about protein bars, however, as a snack. I have some that have 20 grams of protein and only 2 grams of sugar. Does Ferris mention them anywhere in the book? I can't seem to find any reference to them.

caprica

the 4 hour body looks like a modified Atkins diet to me. I've never tried Atkins, but from what I understand Atkins, it has the infamous induction phase designed to induce ketosis and then has a ongoing weight loss phase that has a number of rungs, where you progressively introduce new foods:

* Induction acceptable vegetables in larger quantities
* Fresh cheese
* Nuts and seeds
* Berries
* Alcohol
* Legumes
* Other fruits
* Starchy vegetables
* Whole grains

The list of rungs are foods basically organised by their glycemic load.

Ferris seems skips the induction/ketosis phase and just places you straight into the ongoing weight loss phase stepping off roughly at the 4th last rung (eliminating fruits, starchy veges and whole grains) 6 days a week and then has a massive cheat day.

If you follow the Atkins logic you might be able to fiddle around the edges of the 4 hour body slow carb diet and still keep it going. For example:

* you could add berries as a fruit (blue berries are a super food - high in anti oxidants and low GI)
* you might be able to add other forms of alcohol - beyond the red wine suggested by Tim
* you might be able to add other forms of cheese - beyond the cottage cheese he recommends
* if you could find a way of keeping the glycemic load down, some of the not go areas such as fruit and white foods, might be able to reintroduced.

Any thoughts? has anyone tried Atkins or is an expert in Glycemic load and read the four hour body?

lisagbt

Posting under my girlfriend's account

Firstly - good work everyone! Does anyone use body fat analysis scales? If not, you should - when your weight is fluctuating by 5lb's per day it is most likely water which these will show.

I've been doing the 4hb diet for the last couple of weeks while training up for a multisport event. To me, the keys are:

- minimise sugar & refined carbs (unless after training)
- up the protein to about 1g / lb of bodyweight (which I've also seen recommended elsewhere for muscle building)

the combination of these two makes it just about impossible to eat more than 1500cal/day I'm finding.

I think the cheat day is genius for several reasons:
- it allows you to not feel like you're on a diet, as you can have foods you like
- also you can put food off so hugely helps with motivation
- when you get to the day it is easier to control because you don't feel like undoing all the hard work
- the purported metabolism benefits (seems reasonable to me, but I've not seen any studies to confirm)

As has been posted, it isn't an original idea, it borrows a lot from South Beach/Atkins/Paleo etc etc. Just seems like sensible advice to me though.

Cheers,

Nick (/Lisa)

marchenland

Does anyone use body fat analysis scales? If not, you should - when your weight is fluctuating by 5lb's per day it is most likely water which these will show.

I do. However, I take it with a grain of salt. The thing has been known to change by upwards of 5% just from the weigh-ee stepping off and back on again. Washing your hands, having your feet damp, the presence of the cat in the room, and the moon's current house all can affect it radically. I'm sure the FAA should be resetting it based on fluctuations of magnetic North.

A more persnickety machine, I have never seen, and I used to work in radio, so that's saying something...

mcferg

Any thoughts? has anyone tried Atkins or is an expert in Glycemic load and read the four hour body?

While I wouldn't disagree that a lot of the reasons slow-carb works may be a lot of the reason Atkins work, they're definitely not the same. He's very anti-dairy for reasons other than glycemic load (insulanic response). There's also no introduction of grains at any point. The biggest difference, though, is that, when you combine un-metered bean-eating with an all-out cheat day once per week, it seems unlikely that you will go into ketosis, and that's kind of the whole point of Atkins isn't it?

Someone else was asking about protein bars...I have some protein bars just like yours (20g protein, 2g sugar)...Pure Protein is the brand. I try to limit these to one every day or two. I haven't experienced ill effects, but that's largely because I'm using this diet as a means of getting myself to eat more whole, real foods and less processed stuff. He doesn't address them specifically in his book, though, I think he does mention protein shakes as an option for vegetarians. You may want to look that section over, because he's pretty specific about what type of protein you should use in those shakes. I kind of glossed over that, because I 'm not a vegetarian and didn't plan on drinking any shakes, but I now realize that the protein bars might fall under that same category.

I'm happy to say that the weight from my 2nd cheat day (Sunday) is gone today (Wednesday), which is a day earlier than last week. I'm pretty happy with this, especially considering that I've been sick and haven't exercised the last 2 days. My weight is actually down 0.3 lbs from my Sunday morning weight, so I think I'm in good shape eating the way I did on Sunday (3-4K calories). Hopefully this isn't just a weird water dip, and I can keep up with 1 lb / week, which is about right for the first two weeks...I think. The truth is, I lost about 6 lbs my first week, but I started that after probably about 2 weeks in a row of "cheat days", so I'm just figuring I lost about 1 actual pound that week too.

briteyes

hey everyone, i'm on week two of this diet and so far am really liking the results. i'm also pairing it up with intermittent fasting twice a week and loving my cheat day, although i get full super fast and it's not a good full...LOL, but at least it satisfies my cravings!

i have a question about what we can eat after a workout - I like to have my green smoothie after a workout, which does have fruit in it, I assume this ok, right? And to stretch it further, is it ok to eat whatever you want (w/ in reason) after a workout? Like pizza or a brownie? not that I would do this every time, but if I'm having a very strong craving would it be detrimental to eat a brownie after a workout? i'm thinking if i really crave something bad, i could do a workout to "earn' the right to eat that item (this would be an exception, not a rule)

as for coconut milk, i was treating it like a fruit. i didn't know it was a seed. i did read that it's more of a fat than a carb, so therefore it really doesn't fall into the carb category at all. would love to also know where it falls into this diet. i've been allowing it after a workout only, but i have this amazing coconut "ice cream" recipe that is great to satisfy my sweet tooth w/ out killing my diet!

i lost 5 lbs last week, gained it back after my cheat day, and today i'm back down the 5 lbs. here's hope to losing a few more before my next cheat day!

marchenland

Coconut is definitely high in fat, but in that way, it's not really like any fruit at all except maybe avocado.

At any rate, my small amount of coconut creamer is going to be my diet modification, heh. It's adding such a small amount of anything (other than pleasure), so I can't imagine it's doing much harm. Coconut ice cream might be a different story.

briteyes

Coconut is definitely high in fat, but in that way, it's not really like any fruit at all except maybe avocado.

At any rate, my small amount of coconut creamer is going to be my diet modification, heh. It's adding such a small amount of anything (other than pleasure), so I can't imagine it's doing much harm. Coconut ice cream might be a different story.

i don't think coconut ice cream will be so bad either, it is a good fat, and i don't eat much in the way of fatty foods, especially since i can't have my precious beloved cheese...LOL

i love the idea of using it as a creamer in place of milk, though! maybe i can have my coffee again! yay!

mcferg

i have a question about what we can eat after a workout - I like to have my green smoothie after a workout, which does have fruit in it, I assume this ok, right? And to stretch it further, is it ok to eat whatever you want (w/ in reason) after a workout? Like pizza or a brownie? not that I would do this every time, but if I'm having a very strong craving would it be detrimental to eat a brownie after a workout? i'm thinking if i really crave something bad, i could do a workout to "earn' the right to eat that item (this would be an exception, not a rule)

This is one of the most frustrating things about this book (for me). Ferris does say that you shouldn't eat any of certain types of foods (aside from cheat day), except after a resistance workout (I'm paraphrasing). However, he never gives any detail regarding how much or what types of things might be okay in this circumstance. Given the fact that you do have a cheat day, and you can eat whatever you've been craving then, seems like something like pizza or brownie might be a little overboard as in-week concession. On the other hand, you're doing so well, it may not hurt you.

My attitude is always to stick with what's working. If you're getting the results you want, that's really all that matters. If you go for the post-workout brownie or pizza, it will cause, at worst, a minor setback which you can learn from and move on. If you're not the type of person who gets completely derailed by those types of setbacks, then there's probably no reason not to try it.

For me, though, once I start doing stuff like that, it's all downhill.

briteyes

For me, though, once I start doing stuff like that, it's all downhill.

I can totally be like that too! LOL

I will try to just stay strong, but I will keep that in the back of my mind. I only ask because yesterday I made pizza and brownies for the family, while I munched on almonds, and a spinach, mushroom, tomato omelette.... it was good, but the brownies smelled SOOO good! I did allow myself some 70% dark chocolate though.

bahmur14

i've been doing this for just over a week now and am down 3 pound. I've been sticking to the diet pretty much to a T. I have had a really hard time getting 1200 calories in. I also am running about 30 min a day beacause i love cardio, so I'm really behind by almost 500 calories a day. A few questions: can I drink mikl/protein drink after a workout? what are some snacks that are high in calories but still fall into this diet? I am about 15 pounds away from my goal weight so really want this to work.

briteyes

honestly, i don't even count my calories on this diet. i think that's supposed to be one of the great things about this diet is you can just eat the approved foods and not worry about counting anything. and then when you indulge on your cheat day you add in all those calories you lost throughout the week.

bahmur14

Doesnt he say that one of ther reasons this diet wont work is because some people wont eat enough? i'm not counting to limit my intake but to make sure I'm eating enough, but I can't seem to. I do feel healthier but I am wondering if when I stop eating like this I will just gain it all back. I am a heatly eater who likes desserts but sometimes just adding simple carbs and sugars seems to up your weight no matter how little of you eat, but just because its part of your diet agian. is this true for anyone else?

briteyes

well, i'm not hungry. i eat all day long. if i'm hungry i eat. i'm actually doing two 24 hour fasts (ESE) each week on top of this because i'm pretty sure i overeat. i love to eat so much, and i've never ever had a problem with undereating.

mcferg

i've been doing this for just over a week now and am down 3 pound. I've been sticking to the diet pretty much to a T. I have had a really hard time getting 1200 calories in. I also am running about 30 min a day beacause i love cardio, so I'm really behind by almost 500 calories a day. A few questions: can I drink mikl/protein drink after a workout? what are some snacks that are high in calories but still fall into this diet? I am about 15 pounds away from my goal weight so really want this to work.

Milk is a definite no-no, per the book. There may be protein shakes you can make with water? I would say that if you're not getting enough calories, try cooking with a little more healthy fat (such as olive oil), adding avocado to things or eating more legumes. Maybe I just have a bigger appetite than most, but I'm consuming probably around 1800 cals per day, and, while I'm not hungry, I'm sure I could eat more.

mcferg

Doesnt he say that one of ther reasons this diet wont work is because some people wont eat enough? i'm not counting to limit my intake but to make sure I'm eating enough, but I can't seem to. I do feel healthier but I am wondering if when I stop eating like this I will just gain it all back. I am a heatly eater who likes desserts but sometimes just adding simple carbs and sugars seems to up your weight no matter how little of you eat, but just because its part of your diet agian. is this true for anyone else?

I hear ya. Ferris, though, talks about it like this is just how he eats in general. I think that's the idea...that you just change your general approach to eating to follow what he suggests. Of course, once you reach GW, you may be able to experiment with more concessions, etc. At least that's how I'm trying to approach it. I'll tell you this - I don't count my calories, and I'm way less concerned about the scale than I've been in the past. I'm completely fine w/ 1 lb per week for now, and once I've lost 5 or 6 lbs, I'll be fine with 1/2 lb per week...because I'm much less focused on my goal this time around, and more focused on just getting used to eating like this (which hasn't been hard, thus far). I've got 13 lbs to go, and if I get there by June, that's cool with me - actually, even after that it's fine, because if I can stick to eating like this that long, I figure I'm in the clear.

marchenland

I have had a really hard time getting 1200 calories in.

If you look back a couple of pages, I had the same complaint. While Ferriss says not to count calories, I've been doing so anyway, and I've had HUGE issues meeting even 1200 calories a day on this, even without counting any exercise!

Some things I've added:
* for breakfast, my BF and I split 3 whole eggs plus 4 eggs whites in our breakfast scramble; he added the 3rd whole egg for flavor
* more beans
* half an avocado at lunch, mashed up with my daily half-can of salmon and half-can of black beans (in addition to a vegetable when i have time at work - some days I don't have time, but we consume a lot of veggies otherwise)
* a small handful of nuts (10 or so) no more than twice a day
* a spoon of guacomole if necessary

The avocado is the best, both in terms of adding calories and flavor, overall. I love the excuse to eat half an avocado. And it's pitching me calories over the 1200 mark consistently.

***

I'm trying not to get too excited because I know some of this is just female water flux, but y'all, I was at 209 yesterday morning, 204 last night, and 205 this morning. That's 11 lbs in 11 days, net. The persnickity machine agrees that this is (mostly) actual fat loss. If you all could only have heard how skeptical I was when my BF suggested we do this.

I've never been even vaguely interested in dieting - I was a muscular kid, not athletic but very solid, and have always weighed more than people think I do. I honestly prefer a more rubenesque body (as does my BF). I dieted ONCE, in college, as part of an insane dance teacher's demands that I get down to 115 (I'm 5'8, and I was ~150 at the time) for some part she wanted me to dance, and the damage that did to me psychologically was enough to make me a life-long diet hater. (For the record, I got to 120, I looked like a walking skeleton, my clothes hung on me, and I cried all the time, AND I got injured because I had no energy and fell, ending my "dance career" such as it was - I had never even planned to be a dancer, and it was just a hobby...) When I work out, I put on muscle, and never lose weight. 6 months of hitting the gym for an hour+ 4 times a week, doing both cardio and weights, turned me into an amazon - I was lifting heavy-duty shopping carts off the ground with my hands and ripping multi-ply silk stringing thread - but I never went below 200. Also, working out makes me depressed. I know it's not supposed to, but I wound up with a rip-roaring case of depression at the same time, and I'd literally cry every time I left the gym - not over anything specific, but I'd just sob all the way home on my bike in this kind of bottomless existential angst, the unbearable emotion of just being alive. (This isn't the only backwards biochemistry reaction I have, either - I swear, my chemistry is all kinds of weird.)

I just assumed that nothing was going to work for me.

So, for me to say this is working and that I see this as a potential lifestyle change is shocking to me. I used to talk about a tattoo I wanted, but because of where i want it, I won't get it unless I'm at 150 again. After turning 40, I put that possibility aside - things could only get worse, not better, right? This morning, I thought, I might actually get that tattoo after all.

caprica

i've been doing this for just over a week now and am down 3 pound. I've been sticking to the diet pretty much to a T. I have had a really hard time getting 1200 calories in. I also am running about 30 min a day beacause i love cardio, so I'm really behind by almost 500 calories a day. A few questions: can I drink mikl/protein drink after a workout? what are some snacks that are high in calories but still fall into this diet? I am about 15 pounds away from my goal weight so really want this to work.

try a pea protein isolate protein shake (chocolate flavoured). Contains no milk, soy, carbs, etc.

Also try some nuts as a snack. Tim is big on almonds, walnuts and brazil nuts.

bahmur14

doesnt he say you eat anything you want after a workout within a certain time? that is why i was thinking milk was ok, am I way wrong on that?

caprica

doesnt he say you eat anything you want after a workout within a certain time? that is why i was thinking milk was ok, am I way wrong on that?

There are lots of things in different chapters that are contradictory in his book and it is easy to get confused. At the end of the day the book is not an instruction manual. It is more of a collection of ideas that you can experiment with. Try it. If it doesn't work then you have learned something.

caprica

Also try some nuts as a snack. Tim is big on almonds, walnuts and brazil nuts.

FYI peanuts are a legume and not a nut. so it technically fits in your serve of legumes

briteyes

what does everyone think of Veggie Chips? I was thinking I could use these to dip in my hummus and cottage cheese to make things more interesting, and they're a bit more flavorful than raw veggies....