No muscle if eating at a deficit?

NoMoreBlameGame

I will admit that I know virtually zero about physical fitness. I'm working on changing that. I'm joining a gym and my first day is Friday. I've posted a few threads inquiring about what to do once I get there, and have had several *great* people give me some *awesome* ideas.

However, while surfing around MFP I have seen it said time and time again that it is impossible to gain muscle while eating at a deficit. BUT...I want to lift. I still have a LOT of weight to lose (I am morbidly obese and I am needing to change that).

I already know that to lose weight I need to eat at a deficit (I'm down 53 lb thus far and will continue in my endeavors with that).

I guess I'm just confused...I *want* to lift...but if everyone is telling me that I will not gain any muscle at all, while eating at a deficit, what's the point in lifting weights?

Should I just suck it up, suck it in, and deal with the cardio, walking and other things I find boring (just being honest)...until I lose all my weight and then do the weightlifting afterward? I'm very scared (yes, scared) that not doing what I want to do at the gym is going to make me lose motivation and want to say "poopy on it, then". Edited to Add: and my knee injuries don't allow for bikes, eliptical machines, etc. On bikes, my knees "stick" and I have to pop them back by kicking outward...it's not pleasant and I'd rather stay away from that form of exercise.

....kinda confused now, and getting some mixed opinions. I just don't know which group of opinions is right for me (and I have no opinion because I don't know anything in that area).

thank you

brianpperkins

If you want to maintain the muscle you have, you need to exercise it ... i.e. lift. You will not make significant muscular gains at a deficit ... even at maintenance or surplus, significant gains are difficult for women.

fivethreeone

Gaining muscle is not the same thing as gaining strength.

When people say you can't gain muscle that means you can't gain actual muscle mass. Your body will get smaller if you are eating at a deficit. But you CAN get stronger. Much, much stronger. And your existing muscle mass will become much firmer as you train it, which will make your body look more firm.

You absolutely should strength train.

NoMoreBlameGame

If you want to maintain the muscle you have, you need to exercise it ... i.e. lift. You will not make significant muscular gains at a deficit ... even at maintenance or surplus, significant gains are difficult for women.

So I'll be lifting to maintain the muscle, while losing the fat by eating at a deficit? That'll help me keep the muscle I do have (which isn't much) while I lose the fat, yes?

_Terrapin_

What is the point in lifting?

1. Muscles are a hoot

2. You get to eat more protein if you lift versus. . . .

3. You can take the scale as the Gospel and replace it with a measuring tape(since the scale may not move much, water retention), but the tape will tell a better progressive story for you

4. You get to say "I got in the hole today" and have people give you odd glances

5. You will have one more tool in your fitness arsenal

6. You get to "grunt" in public and NOT have it be in a restroom

7. You have an opportunity to master the art of compound lifting

8. You get to pick kids up(or have them sit on top of you while planking)

9. Later in life you can enjoy walking past your couch instead of laying on it

10. At your funeral they will say, "Yes, she lived to 110 due to those mooscles"

Why lift? Why NOT!! Have at it!

NoMoreBlameGame

Gaining muscle is not the same thing as gaining strength.

When people say you can't gain muscle that means you can't gain actual muscle mass. Your body will get smaller if you are eating at a deficit. But you CAN get stronger. Much, much stronger. And your existing muscle mass will become much firmer as you train it, which will make your body look more firm.

You absolutely should strength train.

Ahhh..see that's the part I didn't quite understand. I couldn't get it through my head how lifting weights wouldn't make me stronger (I would think it would). And yes....I was confused. I don't want to gain more muscle....I just want to be stronger. I'm fat and weak, and I would like to at least be fat and strong until the fat is gone and there's only strong left. :'') ETA: and a healthy amount of fat.

fivethreeone

Gaining muscle is not the same thing as gaining strength.

When people say you can't gain muscle that means you can't gain actual muscle mass. Your body will get smaller if you are eating at a deficit. But you CAN get stronger. Much, much stronger. And your existing muscle mass will become much firmer as you train it, which will make your body look more firm.

You absolutely should strength train.

Ahhh..see that's the part I didn't quite understand. I couldn't get it through my head how lifting weights wouldn't make me stronger (I would think it would). And yes....I was confused. I don't want to gain more muscle....I just want to be stronger. I'm fat and weak, and I would like to at least be fat and strong until the fat is gone and there's only strong left. :'') ETA: and a healthy amount of fat.

It's a common confusion. :flowerforyou:

Just remember that strength gains and mass gains are two different things. Gaining muscle means gaining actual mass.

parkscs

I think the easiest way to view it is this. If you want to have more muscle mass by the time you hit your goal weight, you need to do resistance training while losing weight. Whether you will gain any additional muscle mass whatsoever while dropping weight is a subject that people spend way too much time debating - you might gain a slight amount of additional muscle or you might not. But you will definitely end up with more lean mass at the end of the day than if you did not do any resistance training at all (and that's the important take home) and you will definitely get stronger along the way as well.

BombshellPhoenix

If you want to maintain the muscle you have, you need to exercise it ... i.e. lift. You will not make significant muscular gains at a deficit ... even at maintenance or surplus, significant gains are difficult for women.

So I'll be lifting to maintain the muscle, while losing the fat by eating at a deficit? That'll help me keep the muscle I do have (which isn't much) while I lose the fat, yes?

Yes and if it hasn't been said you can gain a significant amount of strength without building muscle. So there's that perk too. Plus, leaner as you lose then had you not.

Lift and be merry!

AliceDark

Wait, I just want to read this again...

BUT...I want to lift.

Yay!! OP, there's nothing better than feeling strong. Start lifting now, and I guarantee you'll be happier with your eventual results, and probably with the overall process of losing weight, than if you don't :flowerforyou:

beertrollruss

Congratulations on losing 53 pounds. I'm losing about half a pound a week, while getting stronger at the gym, so I can confirm that it is possible to lose weight and get stronger. I set my macros at 40/30/30 so I still get plenty of protein.

Unknown

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wheird

It isn't impossible, just improbable. A very obese person can possibly gain a small amount of muscle mass while in a deficit.

The reasons for strength training while in a deficit are:

-Gaining strength

-Preserving the muscle mass you already have (Your body will prioritize rebuilding damaged muscle and metabolizing fat into ATP rather than muscle)

-Joint health

-Staving off osteoporosis

Among other things.

Plus it makes you feel badass.

NoMoreBlameGame

Thank you for all the replies everyone, and thank you *exceedingly* for not making me feel like a dolt (even though I am one when it comes to anything gym-related).

Y'all rock

Edited to add: and I wish I could remember how to multi-quote so I could respond to your posts in the same post, but I forgot.

Just know...yes, you all rock and I thank you sincerely.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

If you want to maintain the muscle you have, you need to exercise it ... i.e. lift. You will not make significant muscular gains at a deficit ... even at maintenance or surplus, significant gains are difficult for women.

So I'll be lifting to maintain the muscle, while losing the fat by eating at a deficit? That'll help me keep the muscle I do have (which isn't much) while I lose the fat, yes?

Yes.

And you might gain a little muscle. And you should gain some strength and feel like a bad-*kitten*.

Unknown

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PikaKnight

A few links that explain things a lot better than I could.

http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Cortelli

So I'll be lifting to maintain the muscle, while losing the fat by eating at a deficit? That'll help me keep the muscle I do have (which isn't much) while I lose the fat, yes?

Emphasis added.

You say you've lost 53 pounds and you are still morbidly obese -- that means you've been lugging around a lot of extra weight for some time. You may be surprised at how much muscle you have developed. It would be a crying shame to lose any of it if you can avoid it. :sad:

So please do lift - or do some other resistance training that works your muscles while your main focus remains on shedding fat. I am confident you'll be a *lot* happier having preserved as much of whatever muscle you already have then letting some of it be consumed for energy to fuel your calorie deficit while you lose. Good luck!

20Grit

What is the point in lifting?

1. Muscles are a hoot

2. You get to eat more protein if you lift versus. . . .

3. You can take the scale as the Gospel and replace it with a measuring tape(since the scale may not move much, water retention), but the tape will tell a better progressive story for you

4. You get to say "I got in the hole today" and have people give you odd glances

5. You will have one more tool in your fitness arsenal

6. You get to "grunt" in public and NOT have it be in a restroom

7. You have an opportunity to master the art of compound lifting

8. You get to pick kids up(or have them sit on top of you while planking)

9. Later in life you can enjoy walking past your couch instead of laying on it

10. At your funeral they will say, "Yes, she lived to 110 due to those mooscles"

Why lift? Why NOT!! Have at it!

I like this. :smooched:

NoMoreBlameGame

A few links that explain things a lot better than I could.

http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Thank you I bookmarked them all and will go over them one at a time.

you have to eat a lot of protein as well, more than when you are bulking

My doctors have me eating 150 protein per day as it is. I really am trying...but seriously...steak, eggs, fish, chicken...that stuff is ridiculously filling. Not only filling, but lasting. I eat, and then by the time I'm supposed to eat again I'm still full from before. -_-

Yes.

And you might gain a little muscle. And you should gain some strength and feel like a bad-*kitten*.

I've never felt like a badass...just a fatass, so I look forward to feeling like a fat badass for a while, and just a badass after that.

What is the point in lifting?

1. Muscles are a hoot

2. You get to eat more protein if you lift versus. . . .

3. You can take the scale as the Gospel and replace it with a measuring tape(since the scale may not move much, water retention), but the tape will tell a better progressive story for you

4. You get to say "I got in the hole today" and have people give you odd glances

5. You will have one more tool in your fitness arsenal

6. You get to "grunt" in public and NOT have it be in a restroom

7. You have an opportunity to master the art of compound lifting

8. You get to pick kids up(or have them sit on top of you while planking)

9. Later in life you can enjoy walking past your couch instead of laying on it

10. At your funeral they will say, "Yes, she lived to 110 due to those mooscles"

Why lift? Why NOT!! Have at it!

I like this list....I like it a lot! However...what in the heck is, "I got in the hole today." Do I even wanna know? :huh:

I think the easiest way to view it is this. If you want to have more muscle mass by the time you hit your goal weight, you need to do resistance training while losing weight. Whether you will gain any additional muscle mass whatsoever while dropping weight is a subject that people spend way too much time debating - you might gain a slight amount of additional muscle or you might not. But you will definitely end up with more lean mass at the end of the day than if you did not do any resistance training at all (and that's the important take home) and you will definitely get stronger along the way as well.

I haven't the foggiest idea what "resistance training" is, is that the same as weightlifting? Is strength-training weightlifting? If so, why are there so many words for the same thing...it gets confusing for noobs like me. lol

Congratulations on losing 53 pounds. I'm losing about half a pound a week, while getting stronger at the gym, so I can confirm that it is possible to lose weight and get stronger. I set my macros at 40/30/30 so I still get plenty of protein.

Thank you...honestly, I would like 100+ lbs to fall off me in a week...LOL..a bit of a daydream there, though! It certainly didn't pack on me overnight! Congrats on your weight loss also! A half pound per week is great; you're doing awesome.

It isn't impossible, just improbable. A very obese person can possibly gain a small amount of muscle mass while in a deficit.

The reasons for strength training while in a deficit are:

-Gaining strength

-Preserving the muscle mass you already have (Your body will prioritize rebuilding damaged muscle and metabolizing fat into ATP rather than muscle)

-Joint health

-Staving off osteoporosis

Among other things.

Plus it makes you feel badass.

Yet another post about badassery. I definitely like the idea that I might feel badass. I like saying that word already..."badass". My joints are crap, seriously...so yes, if it also affects those in a positive way, that would be awesome.

Emphasis added.

You say you've lost 53 pounds and you are still morbidly obese -- that means you've been lugging around a lot of extra weight for some time. You may be surprised at how much muscle you have developed. It would be a crying shame to lose any of it if you can avoid it. sad

So please do lift - or do some other resistance training that works your muscles while your main focus remains on shedding fat. I am confident you'll be a *lot* happier having preserved as much of whatever muscle you already have then letting some of it be consumed for energy to fuel your calorie deficit while you lose. Good luck!

Yes. I've been lugging around WAY too much weight for far too long (I still am). I'm currently at 294-something (I didn't input my weight Friday because it was only a 0.3 lb loss and I was super depressed about it). Thank you for your encouragement. Some days I'm gung-ho and overly-excited and have more energy than I know what to DO with and go bonkers. Other days I get upset at the "overall goal" and think, "this is gonna take forever, no bloody way". I know I can do this...it just gets overwhelming sometimes. Good point, though...I *might* have muscle under there...somewhere...underneath all the jiggles...I don't know.

beertrollruss

There's another benefit of lifting weights that I haven't seen mentioned, improved bone density. Be sure to get your recommended calcium because weight lifting will use it up.

parkscs

I haven't the foggiest idea what "resistance training" is, is that the same as weightlifting? Is strength-training weightlifting? If so, why are there so many words for the same thing...it gets confusing for noobs like me. lol

They're the same thing. Resistance training is just a more general term, which would include certain forms of calisthenics (bodyweight strength training exercises) as well.

Yes. I've been lugging around WAY too much weight for far too long (I still am). I'm currently at 294-something (I didn't input my weight Friday because it was only a 0.3 lb loss and I was super depressed about it). Thank you for your encouragement. Some days I'm gung-ho and overly-excited and have more energy than I know what to DO with and go bonkers. Other days I get upset at the "overall goal" and think, "this is gonna take forever, no bloody way". I know I can do this...it just gets overwhelming sometimes. Good point, though...I *might* have muscle under there...somewhere...underneath all the jiggles...I don't know.

Another nice aspect of weight lifting is that you have more goals you can accomplish and your notion of "success" isn't merely tied to the number on the scale. Your weight might be only down 0.5 lbs on a given week, but when you can add 10 pounds to your squat that week, that sort of progress can be just as motivating.

Cortelli

I haven't the foggiest idea what "resistance training" is, is that the same as weightlifting? Is strength-training weightlifting? If so, why are there so many words for the same thing...it gets confusing for noobs like me. lol

Making this up on the fly - but "resistance training" is training your muscles against a significant force of resistance. The easiest / most common version is lifting weights -- the weights are the resistance and you are using your muscles to move those weights. Weights aren't strictly necessarily -- there are plenty of body weight exercises you could also do -- the key being that you are pushing your muscles to failure or near failure, and doing so at a weight that reaches that near failure in a relatively short number of repetitions of the exercise.

Or, as a simplified imaginary concept, imagine resistance training as signaling your body "hey, I really need these muscles; look at this hard work I'm asking them to do regularly; so please, while I am keeping you in an energy deficit, please spare the muscles that I so need and instead focus on getting the extra energy from my fat; pretty please!"

I enjoy lifting weights and the benefits are proven. For an example of someone who didn't really like lifting weights but wanted to get some resistance training in, see this thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1428309-what-can-calisthenics-do-for-you-let-me-show-you

NoMoreBlameGame

...and to think I joined this site purely for the easy calorie-counting and database. I'm learning so much here, it's crazy.

Thank you, everybody!

ETA: I just finished the first article, Pika...interesting stuff; thanks!