Your doctor is a lying liar pants!

Jim_Barteck

I don't think this applies to doctors outside of North America, it's very, very, very rare that a European doctor would be subject to a malpractice suit. And I don't think it's "pretending to know more than they do", I think it's just no-one is perfect INCLUDING doctors...they do know this. Human error is a part of all careers and to be honest, the doctor knows more than the patient in most cases (not all!) One benefit in the UK is that the doctor can be more flexible with the drugs he prescribes rather than having to push the ones he's sponsored by or the ones that the patient can afford...I think some of the malpractice suits might be due to that rather than the doctor being an arsey git, tbh.

1) The reason there are far less malpractice suits in Europe than the US is primarily because of the difference in laws between the two: In a government-run healthcare system, you would essentially be suing the government, which has far greater resources to quash a malpractice suit than in a privately-run system - so only the most obvious, egegrious examples ever get taken to court in the first place. They also have the ability (and have actually) made it much difficult to win a malpractice suit because, unlike private doctors, they have the power to change the laws to make it so.

2) You presume to know an awful lot about the American medical system which simply isn't true. No doctor in this country is *required* to prescribe any particular medication, so your claim that European doctors somehow provide a higher level of care because they aren't acting under such restrictions is, at best, badly misinformed, and more likely, simply defamatory. And as far as resrictions on the patient's ability to afford medication, that's not true either. There is a significant social safety net in this country that ensures people receive the treatment they require. There are actually more restrictions on what European doctors are allowed to do and prescribe because of government regulations than there are on American doctors who have far more freedom to prescribe "off-label" uses of medications (one of which wound up being the treatment appropriate for me, and which I could not have been prescribed by a European doctor because of that). So if you're going to make comparisons, at least have the common decency to be well-informed on the subject first.

3) The treatment I was recommended simply happened to be the most common one: it wasn't the most expensive one. The doctor simply had no clue that it would result in infertility, didn't bother to check it out, and scheduled me for an appointment to begin that treatment assuming that I would go blindly along without checking up behind her. It was flat-out negligence/malpractice on her part. Where she practiced medicine was irrelevant to the situation.

abbeyjones1994

They also don't know anything about exercise or athletics (unless possibly if they are an athlete themselves).

^This.

I have a heart defect, so I've seen two cardiologists my whole life (one at a small clinic close to home, one at a big hospital where I have my surgeries a few hours from home). Doctor #1 is very fit, he obviously works out and eats very healthy, and he's always the one saying (before I started MFP), "you know, you really need to add some cardio and watch your calorie intake." Doctor #2 is just an all around big man (probably 6'5" and 250 pounds) and he has never said a word about my weight, even when I had an abysmal stress test a couple of years ago. It always struck me as funny, but maybe that's just my sense of humor.

k8blujay2

Like every other profession there are limitations to their knowledge and expertise... for example, I look at Civil Engineering plans all the time to digitize them into a mapping program... that doesn't mean I'm qualified to draw them up for contractors to use. I can also make weather maps too... doesn't mean I'm qualified to forecast either.

HarrietSabre

I don't think this applies to doctors outside of North America, it's very, very, very rare that a European doctor would be subject to a malpractice suit. And I don't think it's "pretending to know more than they do", I think it's just no-one is perfect INCLUDING doctors...they do know this. Human error is a part of all careers and to be honest, the doctor knows more than the patient in most cases (not all!) One benefit in the UK is that the doctor can be more flexible with the drugs he prescribes rather than having to push the ones he's sponsored by or the ones that the patient can afford...I think some of the malpractice suits might be due to that rather than the doctor being an arsey git, tbh.

1) The reason there are far less malpractice suits in Europe than the US is primarily because of the difference in laws between the two: In a government-run healthcare system, you would essentially be suing the government, which has far greater resources to quash a malpractice suit than in a privately-run system - so only the most obvious, egegrious examples ever get taken to court in the first place. They also have the ability (and have actually) made it much difficult to win a malpractice suit because, unlike private doctors, they have the power to change the laws to make it so.

2) You presume to know an awful lot about the American medical system which simply isn't true. No doctor in this country is *required* to prescribe any particular medication, so your claim that European doctors somehow provide a higher level of care because they aren't acting under such restrictions is, at best, badly misinformed, and more likely, simply defamatory. And as far as resrictions on the patient's ability to afford medication, that's not true either. There is a significant social safety net in this country that ensures people receive the treatment they require. There are actually more restrictions on what European doctors are allowed to do and prescribe because of government regulations than there are on American doctors who have far more freedom to prescribe "off-label" uses of medications (one of which wound up being the treatment appropriate for me, and which I could not have been prescribed by a European doctor because of that). So if you're going to make comparisons, at least have the common decency to be well-informed on the subject first.

3) The treatment I was recommended simply happened to be the most common one: it wasn't the most expensive one. The doctor simply had no clue that it would result in infertility, didn't bother to check it out, and scheduled me for an appointment to begin that treatment assuming that I would go blindly along without checking up behind her. It was flat-out negligence/malpractice on her part. Where she practiced medicine was irrelevant to the situation.

I didn't say anything about the U.S. medical system (only the legal system), in fact I was referring to India (which is where I'm from) although perhaps I should have made that clearer.

Although, hypocritically you presume to know a lot about the European medical system. I've been prescribed medicine for off-label usage in both Germany and England - plus you do still have the option of a private doctor here too if you wanted it.

seltzermint555

Judging by many of the posts about "my doctor's suggestion" here on MFP I believe that is true, much of the time.

casmithis

I have always thought there is a STRONG relationship between doctors and pharmaceutical companies. Not putting either one down I just think some of them are sleeping together. Sorry for the general statement as I'm sure there are lots out there that are in for our best interest. But I also think there's some politics in there as well. I see a nateuropath and a doctor regularly.

Jim_Barteck

I didn't say anything about the U.S. medical system (only the legal system), in fact I was referring to India (which is where I'm from) although perhaps I should have made that clearer.

I'm not going to get into a big argument, but you actually specifically did talk about what American doctors were prescribing and made unsupported claims about why they prescribed what they did - neither of which were legal arguments. And you specifically mentioned European doctors and their practice of medicine - not Indian doctors. So I agree your post could have been much clearer if you hadn't mentioned either American doctors or European doctors at all, but instead talked about India and Indian doctors which you didn't. (And I'm pretty sure you don't want to have a discussion comparing the social and living conditions available to the average American and the average Indian.)

So I'm not sure what exactly to take from your post, if anything at all. So I'll just say: Have a great day

Jim_Barteck

Although, hypocritically you presume to know a lot about the European medical system.

It would only be hypocritical if I hadn't actually lived in Europe. Once again, you presume too much. I was born in Berlin and am actually a dual-citizen of Germany and the US.

I'm pretty sure that boots the "hypocritical" argument right out the window.

I will repeat myself: Have a great day

Ems500c

Funny enough when I read this post, I though of when my dad had a heart attack and his cardiologist asked if we had questions before he left. Of course we had a million but mostly food related. (This was about 7 years ago when we could care less about fat) we asked what oil is best to use, what to not to eat health wise as in is it OK to eat beef once in a while (again totally new at this at the time) and his answer was "I have no clue I eat whatever I want, ask the nurse" I couldn't believe my ears!!

kmsnyg

I had eight weeks of nutrition in medical school. Not enough for me to give advice to other folks on nutrition, so if I saw patients (I don't because I'm a pathologist, I look at biopsies under the microscope and do autopsies), then I would refer my patients to registered dietitians.

As in every profession, there are good and bad doctors. Just because you had a shoddy experience with one, doesn' t mean we all suck or are trying to get as much money from you as possible.

miniwheatxoxo

Totally agree with OP. I went to family doctor for help with weight loss tips, after OBGYN said I had PCOS.

Family doctor told me to stick to 1200 calorie diet and tried prescribing me a weight loss pill. I said heck no to the pill and the 1200 calorie diet plan.

I started MFP and see better advice on here.

rml_16

Funny enough when I read this post, I though of when my dad had a heart attack and his cardiologist asked if we had questions before he left. Of course we had a million but mostly food related. (This was about 7 years ago when we could care less about fat) we asked what oil is best to use, what to not to eat health wise as in is it OK to eat beef once in a while (again totally new at this at the time) and his answer was "I have no clue I eat whatever I want, ask the nurse" I couldn't believe my ears!!

A good doctor would have referred him to an RD without you even having to ask.

jlp19771

Fortunately for me, my doctor is a self-proclaimed recovering food addict and has fully documented her weight loss journey. Having said that, she admitted that she didn't know everything about weight loss and everyone is different and responds differently to diets. She suggested a change in eating habits, modification, fresh vs. processed as much as possible and referred me to a nutritionist (lucky again they are in the same office). Mine is probably the exception to the rule, but I still agree that the first place to start is with your doctor, if you don't like the answer keep looking.

royaldrea

Want to see how smart your doctor is?

Ask him or her these questions (answers based on you being otherwise healthy):

1) Do I need to eat breakfast every day?

a: no

2) Do I need to eat three square meals a day?

a: no

3) Is there metabolic machinery that needs to be started up in the morning?

a: no

4) When we sleep, does our metabolism go into a special mode, like a computer?

a: no

5) Does genetics determine a pre-disposition to gaining weight?

a: no

6) Is 60 the absolute lowest my glucose should go?

a: no. People get into real problems only when it is below 30. This assumes you are not on any glucose-lowering drugs.

7) Is fructose bade for you?

a: no

8) I want to water-fast for three days. Will that hurt me?

a: no

9) Is there a "best" type of carbohydrate to eat?

a: no. Carbs vary on absorption time, but all carbs absorbed eventually enter the bloodstream as 95% glucose, with a little fructose and galactose to make up the difference.

10) If I eat a high-cholesterol food, will that raise my cholesterol?

a: no. All ingested cholesterol is broken down. All human cholesterol is made by the body.

and so on and so forth

source: Guyton's textbook of Medical physiology.

for a general overview, read the freebie kindle pages of Dr. Hagan's "Breakfast: The Least Important Meal of the Day". No need to buy the book.

Doctors are great people, but most are ignorant, and today a lot want to be popular so as to get a good evaluation from you. So they will softball the truth in order to make you feel better.

I love these questions!! I want to send them to everyone I know but then they will say the inevitable, "Well I disagree with that" no matter how many studies I can find to shovel at them, because science < old wives' tales. Will save and forward anyway.

runner475

Just kidding! She/he is probably not.

However, did you know that your doctor probably knows next to nothing about nutrition? I'm currently taking a college nutrition course and came across this gem in my textbook (Nutrition Concepts & Controversies, 13th edition):

"Only about 30% of all medical schools in the United States require students to take a comprehensive nutrition course, such as the class taken by students reading this text. Less than half of medical schools require even 25 hours of nutrition instruction. By comparison, your current nutrition class provides an average of 45 hours of instruction."

I'm not trying to tell you to not listen to your doctor, but perhaps if you have questions about nutrition, you'd be better off getting a referral to a registered dietition.

Bwahaha! That's why we have nutritionist/dietician.

Hahahaha! Did you jus' realize you are expecting barber to bake you a birthday cake?

Who told you docs are trained in nutrition. Most MDs have Anatomy/chemistry/Micro-Biology as their majors. Nutrition is not even in their pre-requisites.

Erilynn93

I went to school as a biology major for 3 years and now I'm a Psych major (but we're required to take lots of bio classes at my school) and I've actually been told that doctors know next to nothing about anything medical in reality (I'm not saying this is necessarily true, I really think it depends on the type of doctor as well). All they do is listen to you talk about your symptoms and then go look them up in a text book and try to diagnose you based on what that says usually.

For example, I know that cholesterol has nothing to do with what you eat unless you have a condition. Your body synthesizes the amount of cholesterol that you need on a daily basis and adjusts how much it makes based on what you consume. But if you go to a doctor, they will tell you to eat more or less cholesterol, or just to watch it even though that is useless unless you have an actual condition.

bugaboo_sue

Just kidding! She/he is probably not.

However, did you know that your doctor probably knows next to nothing about nutrition? I'm currently taking a college nutrition course and came across this gem in my textbook (Nutrition Concepts & Controversies, 13th edition):

"Only about 30% of all medical schools in the United States require students to take a comprehensive nutrition course, such as the class taken by students reading this text. Less than half of medical schools require even 25 hours of nutrition instruction. By comparison, your current nutrition class provides an average of 45 hours of instruction."

I'm not trying to tell you to not listen to your doctor, but perhaps if you have questions about nutrition, you'd be better off getting a referral to a registered dietition.

Bwahaha! That's why we have nutritionist/dietician.

Hahahaha! Did you jus' realize you are expecting barber to bake you a birthday cake?

Who told you docs are trained in nutrition. Most MDs have Anatomy/chemistry/Micro-Biology as their majors. Nutrition is not even in their pre-requisites.

Maybe so but a lot of people go to their doctors if they are looking for advice on losing weight OR their doctor might suggest certain foods/diets for them as well.

I honestly don't really trust any doctor. The person I used to use as my PCP was a joke! He gave me an RX for an anti depressant when I went to him for sleeping issues. :huh: I am the least depressed person out there. I was just suffering from a little bit of insomnia!

I personally don't see how doctors can keep up-to-date with the medical advancements and new studies on things and really don't believe that they do. That same PCP who prescribed me an anti depressant was still quoting a very old and extremely flawed study that said Vitamin E isn't necessary. Yeah. I don't go to him any more.

ETA: Never mind the fact that a doctors answer to everything is to prescribe some type of drug.

runner475

Just kidding! She/he is probably not.

However, did you know that your doctor probably knows next to nothing about nutrition? I'm currently taking a college nutrition course and came across this gem in my textbook (Nutrition Concepts & Controversies, 13th edition):

"Only about 30% of all medical schools in the United States require students to take a comprehensive nutrition course, such as the class taken by students reading this text. Less than half of medical schools require even 25 hours of nutrition instruction. By comparison, your current nutrition class provides an average of 45 hours of instruction."

I'm not trying to tell you to not listen to your doctor, but perhaps if you have questions about nutrition, you'd be better off getting a referral to a registered dietition.

Bwahaha! That's why we have nutritionist/dietician.

Hahahaha! Did you jus' realize you are expecting barber to bake you a birthday cake?

Who told you docs are trained in nutrition. Most MDs have Anatomy/chemistry/Micro-Biology as their majors. Nutrition is not even in their pre-requisites.

Maybe so but a lot of people go to their doctors if they are looking for advice on losing weight OR their doctor might suggest certain foods/diets for them as well.

I honestly don't really trust any doctor. The person I used to use as my PCP was a joke! He gave me an RX for an anti depressant when I went to him for sleeping issues. :huh: I am the least depressed person out there. I was just suffering from a little bit of insomnia!

I personally don't see how doctors can keep up-to-date with the medical advancements and new studies on things and really don't believe that they do. That same PCP who prescribed me an anti depressant was still quoting a very old and extremely flawed study that said Vitamin E isn't necessary. Yeah. I don't go to him any more.

ETA: Never mind the fact that a doctors answer to everything is to prescribe some type of drug.

If I was in your situation I would get a second opinion. That is agreeable. However your experience is not the same as what OP is expecting from the doc.

MDs are not trained in nutrition and for the sake of not polluting the waters I'm going to stick with original post and refrain from commenting further on your situation and for the sake of HIPAA laws. Sorry.

If docs have to give advice on nutrition to follow - we really do not need dietician/nutritions. Again it's not docs job.

Erilynn93

Just kidding! She/he is probably not.

However, did you know that your doctor probably knows next to nothing about nutrition? I'm currently taking a college nutrition course and came across this gem in my textbook (Nutrition Concepts & Controversies, 13th edition):

"Only about 30% of all medical schools in the United States require students to take a comprehensive nutrition course, such as the class taken by students reading this text. Less than half of medical schools require even 25 hours of nutrition instruction. By comparison, your current nutrition class provides an average of 45 hours of instruction."

I'm not trying to tell you to not listen to your doctor, but perhaps if you have questions about nutrition, you'd be better off getting a referral to a registered dietition.

Bwahaha! That's why we have nutritionist/dietician.

Hahahaha! Did you jus' realize you are expecting barber to bake you a birthday cake?

Who told you docs are trained in nutrition. Most MDs have Anatomy/chemistry/Micro-Biology as their majors. Nutrition is not even in their pre-requisites.

Maybe so but a lot of people go to their doctors if they are looking for advice on losing weight OR their doctor might suggest certain foods/diets for them as well.

I honestly don't really trust any doctor. The person I used to use as my PCP was a joke! He gave me an RX for an anti depressant when I went to him for sleeping issues. :huh: I am the least depressed person out there. I was just suffering from a little bit of insomnia!

I personally don't see how doctors can keep up-to-date with the medical advancements and new studies on things and really don't believe that they do. That same PCP who prescribed me an anti depressant was still quoting a very old and extremely flawed study that said Vitamin E isn't necessary. Yeah. I don't go to him any more.

ETA: Never mind the fact that a doctors answer to everything is to prescribe some type of drug.

Unfortunately, this is because they have been corrupted by pharmaceutical companies

runner475

Funny enough when I read this post, I though of when my dad had a heart attack and his cardiologist asked if we had questions before he left. Of course we had a million but mostly food related. (This was about 7 years ago when we could care less about fat) we asked what oil is best to use, what to not to eat health wise as in is it OK to eat beef once in a while (again totally new at this at the time) and his answer was "I have no clue I eat whatever I want, ask the nurse" I couldn't believe my ears!!

My dad underwent bypass surgery. We had the same question and were directed to the dietitian. Only a dietitian is authorized to write up the diet.

"A cardiologist is a doctor with special training and skill in finding, treating and preventing diseases of the heart and blood vessels. " - webster.

I understand where you were coming from and for liability reasons he'll not take over dietitian's job responsibility. I think he was correct. It does make sense to me.