Why do VLCD's fail?
TestingFun01
Posts: 89 Member
This is just for curiosity purposes...
I've read a lot that they always fail, but I'm wondering why? I know a person can't get enough nutrients on them, so it doesn't make the diet easier, but ultimately what leads to gaining the weight back?
Does a person's metabolism slow down drastically when doing it so when they up their calories they gain? I mean, if they ate their correct new weight maintenance calories after the diet, wouldn't they just maintain like normal?
(To any lurkers, please don't go doing this, like I said I'm only asking for curiosity purposes, unless you are super morbidly obese a vlcd will probably not do you (or anyone) good!)
I've read a lot that they always fail, but I'm wondering why? I know a person can't get enough nutrients on them, so it doesn't make the diet easier, but ultimately what leads to gaining the weight back?
Does a person's metabolism slow down drastically when doing it so when they up their calories they gain? I mean, if they ate their correct new weight maintenance calories after the diet, wouldn't they just maintain like normal?
(To any lurkers, please don't go doing this, like I said I'm only asking for curiosity purposes, unless you are super morbidly obese a vlcd will probably not do you (or anyone) good!)
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Replies
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First of all, the definition differs. To some, 1150 qualifies.
They don't always fail. People do this and succeed. Doctors okay it for some people. It's some MFP posters who think it is doomed to fail.
Everyone should follow the advice of their doctor.0 -
First of all, the definition differs. To some, 1150 qualifies.
They don't always fail. People do this and succeed. Doctors okay it for some people. It's some MFP posters who think it is doomed to fail.
Everyone should follow the advice of their doctor.
They are usually (or are supposed to be) monitored by a doctor and supplemented. (From what I read)
But I'd like to know what plays a role in a lot of people gaining back except for the fact that it's not sustainable. Do they go like in a food craze or something and eat the fridge? Or is it "starvation mode" (sorry I had to =P)0 -
Waiting for kitten ????. gifs0
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Waiting for kitten í ½í°±. gifs
Me too :laugh:0 -
Probably one of the best counter arguments out there:
http://gregnuckols.com/2013/06/04/slow-and-steady-weight-loss-i-think-not/
No necessarily addressing VLCD, but faster weight loss in general.0 -
Again, not everyone gains it back.First of all, the definition differs. To some, 1150 qualifies.
They don't always fail. People do this and succeed. Doctors okay it for some people. It's some MFP posters who think it is doomed to fail.
Everyone should follow the advice of their doctor.
They are usually (or are supposed to be) monitored by a doctor and supplemented. (From what I read)
But I'd like to know what plays a role in a lot of people gaining back except for the fact that it's not sustainable. Do they go like in a food craze or something and eat the fridge? Or is it "starvation mode" (sorry I had to =P)
People gain back weight they lost for many different reasons - medical, mental and emotional. Everyone has their own unique stories.
If you go to the "Getting Started" section, you'll find lots of people who came here, did the MFP thing, gained it back and are here again to re-lose. Many tell their stories. 0 -
Well, one good reason I can think of is that life just doesn't work that way. Sometimes you want to go out with friends, sometimes you want to celebrate the holidays. Even the most steely personalities will probably end up feeling bad or lonely when everyone else is having fun and indulging and there you are, eating a salad with no dressing or saving up calories all day long for one splurge meal.
It seems that a lot of people who want to go very low calorie aren't thinking long term. They think they can just eat very little for six months to a year and lose a bunch of weight, then go back to eating what they did before. That's a huge reason people yoyo diet. "Bawww I lost 50 pounds last year and gained it all back this year! Oh noooooo!" Yeah, no. It's simply not sustainable.0 -
Probably one of the best counter arguments out there:
http://gregnuckols.com/2013/06/04/slow-and-steady-weight-loss-i-think-not/
No necessarily addressing VLCD, but faster weight loss in general.
Wow.. okay... :ohwell: interesting and kind of scary...0 -
Well, one good reason I can think of is that life just doesn't work that way. Sometimes you want to go out with friends, sometimes you want to celebrate the holidays. Even the most steely personalities will probably end up feeling bad or lonely when everyone else is having fun and indulging and there you are, eating a salad with no dressing or saving up calories all day long for one splurge meal.
It seems that a lot of people who want to go very low calorie aren't thinking long term. They think they can just eat very little for six months to a year and lose a bunch of weight, then go back to eating what they did before. That's a huge reason people yoyo diet. "Bawww I lost 50 pounds last year and gained it all back this year! Oh noooooo!" Yeah, no. It's simply not sustainable.
See THAT'S my question. So let's say for argument's sake, someone goes on a vlcd to lose weight while tracking calories, they manage to lose the weight, and they DONT return to "normal" old eating habits, that is, they now eat at their new weight's maintenance, (just like we would after we are done losing) will they keep it off then?0 -
Virtually all diets 'fail', for the most part, if 'success' is defined as never regaining any of the weight. But like the link posted above explains, VLCDs do as well or better than other types.0
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If they're eating the correct maintenance calories, why would they put weight back on?.0
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If they're eating the correct maintenance calories, why would they put weight back on?.
I dunno? Doesn't it lower their metabolism or something? I mean I know all dieting does lower it slightly because you eat at a deficit...
But it readjusts again, right?0 -
So it's really just a case of (like with most diets) going back to old eating ways that makes them regain?0
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See THAT'S my question. So let's say for argument's sake, someone goes on a vlcd to lose weight while tracking calories, they manage to lose the weight, and they DONT return to "normal" old eating habits, that is, they now eat at their new weight's maintenance, (just like we would after we are done losing) will they keep it off then?
For argument's sake, if we assume they really do eat at maintenance (whatever that is - let's also pretend they're having their metabolism medically measured just to be sure of what their BMR *really* is before, during, & after)...then of course they will keep the weight off. BY DEFINITION.
IMNSHO, what causes more rapid/likely weight gain after VLCDs or super-restrictive eating plans, is that your "diet" phase food groups are so different than maintenance. You aren't learning to eat a variety of foods in moderation. So you aren't developing an eye for what a helping of X or Y or Z is doing to your daily count/macros. That makes it really hard later on to include X Y &Z in a healthy way.
A lot of VLCDs don't even try to include all the food groups, which is a total setup for the difficulties mentioned above.
Bottom line...I think most folks end up not actually eating at maintenance...0 -
Some studies find the metabolism goes right back up when the deficit eating is stopped, others find the metabolism remains lower after dieting. I think there are a lot of factors at play.If they're eating the correct maintenance calories, why would they put weight back on?.
I dunno? Doesn't it lower their metabolism or something? I mean I know all dieting does lower it slightly because you eat at a deficit...
But it readjusts again, right?0 -
They aren't sure yet.If they're eating the correct maintenance calories, why would they put weight back on?.
I dunno? Doesn't it lower their metabolism or something? I mean I know all dieting does lower it slightly because you eat at a deficit...
But it readjusts again, right?
ALL people who lose weight, however long it takes and whatever they ate, will keep those fat cells, which will always send messages to the brain, "Hey, we're empty! We should be full! You never know when you might energy! Fill us up!"
They're still researching if they ever disappear, what happens with the signals, etc.
If you're really interested, you should go to the library and read up. There is lot of info out there!
Maintaining isn't easy for anyone, which is why so many dieters - VLCD, MFP, every other kind - end up gaining the weight back0 -
People regain weight because it is easier than maintaining / losing weight.
Path of least resistance and all that.
Has nothing to do with how they lost the weight.0 -
They don't always fail. When they do it's because people are either unable to comply with the very low calorie regimen to actually achieve results, or they are unable to transition out of the diet to a maintenance state. Both reasons are directly related to people eating too much. One could argue that a very low calorie diet might set a lot of people up to be prone to eating too much but that's a different topic all together.0
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Some well-designed, medically monitored, and often hospital-based VLCDs succeed. The problem with Very Low Calorie Diets is that they are very difficult to do in a healthy way and difficult to stick to without medical support, a carefully controlled diet, and proper vitamin support.
A poorly designed VLCD is quite risky and can result in cardiac problems and even death.
Many post-gastric surgery diets may be classified as VLCDs. Again, these must have careful design and medical supervision to work well and keep healthy.
Do not try doing a VLCD unless you are working with someone who is a bonafide expert. Check out a hospital based program, avoid weight loss centers with shaky reputations.
People often gain weight back no matter what method they use to lose it in the first place by falling back into old patterns of eating. It truly is calories in/calories out. A VLCD will cause you to lose weight while you are doing it but without a well-designed maintenance program being followed afterward, you'll just gain the weight back.
Talk to your doctor before you think about trying a VLCD.0 -
Waiting for kitten í ½í°±. gifs
Me too :laugh:
*elbows her way in*
I brought the popcorn
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Probably one of the best counter arguments out there:
http://gregnuckols.com/2013/06/04/slow-and-steady-weight-loss-i-think-not/
No necessarily addressing VLCD, but faster weight loss in general.
Well thats fine for some people, especially if you are talking about the author, me or probably you: a highly muscled male with high relative starting weight. I'm similar in strength to that guy who's page you referenced, so I can say yeah for people like us its not so big of a deal to lose (or gain) at that speed of 15 lbs in a month. And in fact to clarify its *NOT* even a VLCD to do it! The problem is when you say things like this in general, people apply it to their own widely varying circumstances, and -15lbs/mo is not the same for him, as it is for the 5'1" girl.
It isn't so bad if someone like him (or myself) cuts 1,500 cals a day because we are big, have a lot of muscle and then adding exercise: 3,500cal/day - 1,500= 2,000 cals/day. So I (and I assume the link author's calorie levels are similar) can do a 1,500/day diet and lose 4lbs/week and get enough nutrients in, no problems (except for my appetite). It is still not even a VLCD according to many until I'm trying to drop closer to 5lbs/week!! But when you get into smaller people, women, those with less muscle mass, and people who ignore other parts of the diet (like eating high protein), -3lbs/week is a massive VLCD, 1,750 -1,500 cals/day= 250 cals/day...which can get you into trouble fast. And there is no way you will get sufficient protein or fats, which means your muscles get torn down.
And also, I say "fine" for someone like me to do it, but I know that I still get tempted to "pork out" if I try to cut so much, and tend to regain fast lost weight back faster. So yeah, I can do it, and be unhappy with my food levels, and be at risk of regaining it faster. Sometimes though gathering your will for a week on a 4lb loss is easier than trying to restrict for a month at -1lb/wk.
The biggest problem with a fast weight loss is you go in and out of a diet, and when you come out you are "starved" for certain foods or quantities and go "ahhh, I can finally eat again!" and go right back to your old habits. You learned no new way of eating that you will do on your own (unless you periodically go through dieting again), so the weight returns easily. If you try for a slow loss, you can "practice" modifying your food intake to a level that is sustainable forever, and never be in massive hunger, so eventually you can just do what you are doing and stay at the weight you wanted, that's the beauty of a slow loss program.
Personally, I go through periods of faster and slower loss, but I never go into VLCD levels anymore. Faster loss usually involves a rebound up after. Slower loss (but not too slow) tends to result in a new range that I fluctuate above and below.0 -
Everyone should follow the advice of their doctor.
Wrong.0 -
I actually read a very interesting article concerning regain after weight loss, in sum, it stated that researchers were surprised to find that when people lose weight and go down to a different weight, the calories needed to maintain that weight in someone who has lost weight to get there vs someone who has never lost weight and weighs the same are lower for some reason, almost as though the body puts up a defense against further efforts. The difference wasn't significant qr perhaps 100-200 cals per day, but it does add up, esp. If someone is assuming they should eat X calories to maintain and its really Y. They will gain weight again slowly.0
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VLCD for an extended period of time damage the body, reduce lean body mass and affect brain and body function.0
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This is just for curiosity purposes...
I've read a lot that they always fail, but I'm wondering why? I know a person can't get enough nutrients on them, so it doesn't make the diet easier, but ultimately what leads to gaining the weight back?
Does a person's metabolism slow down drastically when doing it so when they up their calories they gain? I mean, if they ate their correct new weight maintenance calories after the diet, wouldn't they just maintain like normal?
(To any lurkers, please don't go doing this, like I said I'm only asking for curiosity purposes, unless you are super morbidly obese a vlcd will probably not do you (or anyone) good!)
For people who've had weight control issues, only about 5% actually will keep the weight off after they lose it...regardless of whether or not it is a VLCD, low carb diet, calorie counting, etc...it doesn't matter.
The bottom line is that people talk a good talk about making lifestyle changes...but most people fail to actually follow through with that...and really, most people don't actually even know what that is. I see people on MFP all of the time who think the act of counting calories is the lifestyle...IMHO those people are missing the boat entirely. Calorie counting is just a tool and can be a catalyst for leading a more healthful lifestyle...but you still have to adopt that healthful lifestyle...which means proper and awesome nutrition have to become you...fitness has to become you, and these are forever.
Most people don't actually focus on learning how to live a more healthful life...they just want to lose weight and do so at all costs...they don't teach themselves how to eat and they don't establish healthy relationships with food and fitness. They hit some arbitrary goal weight on the scale and they just go back to doing the things they were doing before...they have succeeded in losing weight, but they've failed to actually make a significant change to the way they live their lives.0 -
I think because most diets fail. I know this is not scientific but I bet you can look at your life and find the same to be true: 99.9% of the people I personally know who have weight problems will always have them. The most close example is my son who started real strong (did a supervised VLCD for 14 weeks) and during the course of a year lost over 100 lbs. A little over a year later he is struggling and the only solution he has see fit is to go back to the spa where he initially started to lose weight at. My husband and I went to the same spa for two weeks and found that most of the people there had gone multiple times and were still struggling. There was one girl that had been to several different Spas over the course of the last 10 years. She had once stayed at one for 6 months, lost all the weight she had to lose, went home for the holidays and gained it all back.
I could go on with stories such as these. The truth, for most people with this kind of problem is that they will have to be forever vigilant.
And you can call it a change of lifestyle, instead of a diet, if you will (like my son did) but by and by the old habits will creep again. After the spa I started eating real healthy and it did last a few months. Then I got bored. My advantage (or curse, depending on how you see it) being that I seem to be able to eat as much as I can without ever getting over 140 lbs which is still within my healthy weight. But yes, I prefer to be thinner (and have been all of my life except for a year or two) but even though I KNOW that I should eat healthy the siren song of junk food is much too strong.
In conclusion, VLCDs and other diets don't really "work" because we are human and food is delicious.0 -
Just my personal opinion, but maybe if you want to lose very quick, you are only focused on the quick loss, not really about healthy or sustainable. So once they reached their goal they continue eating as before or stop exercising or both.
If you lose slowly your whole mindset has more time to change.
Just thinking about eating only 1200 or even less calories a day already puts me in a bad mood.0 -
This statement is far too broad. I feel like someone who weighs 500lbs could go on a year long VLCD and see FAR more health benefits occur than health problems. There is a time and place for a VLCD, and they will work better for some people then a slow and steady weight loss.VLCD for an extended period of time damage the body, reduce lean body mass and affect brain and body function.0 -
For WIW I ate <900/cal a day for 3 years and neither died nor had sudden weight gain. I eat more now because I WAS losing hair, was always tired, and got sick at the drop of a hat. And, you know, food is yummy. But there's been no yo-yoing (the only time I gained much was when pregnant) and it doesn't seem to have 'ruined' my metabolism. I just discovered that if I want to lift, I need to eat more food. So I do. In fact I eat almost 600 more calories but have only gained a few pounds. I'm not sure what my point was there lol.0
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Vlcd is not so much focusrd on calories but harmones. Low carb intake help to control the spike in insulin. A dominant fat storing harmoe. When going back to carbs insulin begins to spike and fat is stored. Its about controlling insulin overptoduction. Low carbon has to be a lifestyle. If you just want to eat caribs still id advise to try another diet. By the way it is very possible to get in all tie nutrients on vlcd if you make wise choices. Google Stephanie Person.0
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