Low Carb, High Protein & Fat, no loss

michaelludgate31

I've been following a 4HB/4HC Tim Ferris inspired diet for about 2 years, with the odd break. Went from 93Kg to 74Kg over that time. More recently was stagnating and tried more aggressively to push for 70Kg This lead to feeling weak/light headed and doctors vist. Whilst the nutritionist couldn't have been more unhelpful (think primary school teacher pointing at the 'food groups' on a chart and avoiding any questions), I took it that I needed to do something to improve my diet. That was back in March, after following docs advice for two months I had put on 4Kg taking me to 78Kg. In the last four months I've not lost anything, even though I'm regularly adding new exercises or increasing others. When I'm not suffering from over-exertion (tight ham strings) I'll be doing the following:

Monday: Swimming for 30min
Tuesday: Weight Training for 30min
Wednesday: Weight Training for 30min
Thursday: Team Sport for 90min
Friday: Weight Training for 30min
Sunday: Weight Training for 90min (usually a fasting day or heavily reduced cal intake)
Every work day includes 9k walking between home/office in 100mins
Also like to cycle which usually involves 25 - 80 mile ride, trying to get into jogging/running but that's going a little slow.

Generally I'm finding a deficit of around 1000 cal per day below target, I don't feel hungry and struggle to eat large meals in one sitting, like McDonald's Large Big Tasty EVM at over 1000cal (very rare).
I'm recording both food and exercise religiously and probably underestimating exercise slightly.
Whilst I've found I sink more when swimming, and thus it's likely a gain in muscle mass is occuring, it doesn't explain why I've remained locked at 78Kg for the last 4 months!

deansdad101

I've been following a 4HB/4HC Tim Ferris inspired diet for about 2 years, with the odd break. <snip>

Whilst the nutritionist couldn't have been more unhelpful (think primary school teacher pointing at the 'food groups' on a chart and avoiding any questions), I took it that I needed to do something to improve my diet. That was back in March, after following docs advice for two months I had put on 4Kg taking me to 78Kg. In the last four months I've not lost anything, even though I'm regularly adding new exercises or increasing others.

Generally I'm finding a deficit of around 1000 cal per day below target, I don't feel hungry and struggle to eat large meals in one sitting, like McDonald's Large Big Tasty EVM at over 1000cal (very rare).

I'm recording both food and exercise religiously and probably underestimating exercise slightly.
Whilst I've found I sink more when swimming, and thus it's likely a gain in muscle mass is occuring, it doesn't explain why I've remained locked at 78Kg for the last 4 months!

Michael;

Your selection of the thread title was meant as a joke - right?

While I couldn't agree more with the "...primary school teacher pointing to..." characterization of far too many medical "professionals" (so called) - I'm not sure that's where your "issues" are actually stemming from.

Tried to look at your diary and while it does get the award for most "creative" of any I've ever seen, I'm at a loss to understand how you arrived at "Low Carb, High Protein & Fat" title - hence my conclusion that it has to be a joke.

For the last 10 days your Carb "Target" (which changes day to day) averaged 281.

Actual carb intake averaged 172 (even including the 8 day in the average)

Fat target below 100 and average cal intake 1837 - ranging from 70 to 3255.

Don't know anything about the "Tim Ferris" diet you were using previously but based on the results you claim, it's probably best you revisit it. That, or if you truly are interested in considering LCHF, gain at least a basic understanding of what it entails (hint: a 281 "target" or 172 intake isn't even CLOSE - neither is 100 fat).

Neither is an 1800 cal / 206 carb Micky D "carb fest" high on the list of a LCHF'er's preferred meal plans (although, had you just dropped the bun & fries it would look much better).

LCHF does require a degree commitment however and based on the diary entries herein, unless you are willing to adhere a great deal more closely to daily "targets" it's unlikely you'll succeed in your efforts.

Your diary (if it's valid) bears NO resemblance whatsoever to the LCHF protocol and the title is not only misleading (intentionally?) but invites question as to your motivation.

Finally, many believe that LCHF is NOT, first and foremost, a weight loss "diet" but rather a lifestyle change primarily concerned with overall health and well being. Weight loss can and will result but it's more of a "side effect" (in the good sense of the word) than a short term goal or primary motivation.

If you are actually interested in learning about it, there are a number of folks more than willing to share both their knowledge and their experiences with you over on the Low Carber Group.

LCHF, like any other method or nutrition plan ISN'T "right" for everybody (for a variety of reasons) and its adherents generally try very hard to avoid the cult-like tactics employed by proponents of some "diets"- preferring instead to provide factual documentation based on actual "science" and allowing folks to decide for themselves what "works" for them.

Best of luck on whatever you decide but please refrain in the future from linking LCHF to that which it is not and influencing those who come seeking knowledge with misinformation.

michaelludgate31

I've looked closer at the last week of August,
Last week of August is a representative week, this month has been marred by a mixture of 'corrective' actions that have been mistakes and lapses due to the lack of results. I've failed to keep an accurate track of carbs, focussing on cals. Decisions such as yogurt drink as a cheap MRP (other considerations...) lead to adding quick cals, at the expense of also adding unchecked carbs.

Whilst your comments have highlighted my straying from low carbs, which I thank you for, your general tone is unhelpful. I'll not argue that a lack of information is likely responsible for wrong choices, but this isn't intentional, I don't cheat myself and am particularly strict both in the gym and at the table, in-line with current goals. Feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure around 100 and under is considered low carb, I'm not claiming Ketogenic diet at under 50 daily, though I've been in that territory before. As you can see from the data pulled from my diary, I'm consuming in excess of two-thirds of my cals from fat and protein combined.

I raised the point of the burger myself, it was on a cheat day and isn't something I do often (once or twice a year) I'm well aware of the nutrition profile of the burger and it's bun. I'd also contest that the validity of the diary entries is a pointless dig, why on earth would someone spend the time to fill out the diary with fantasy; Having been on a 'reduced' carb, 'increased' fat/protein diet for the last two years, I feel it's fair to say I see it as a lifestyle change.

Sunday 24 - Sat 30
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat T6-day Avg T7-day Avg
Cal 1412 858 1726 1725 1798 1979 2893 9498 1583 12391 1770
Carbs 134 23 75 77 60 81 258 450 75 708 101
Fat 66 44 89 102 99 121 137 521 86 658 94
Protein 31 65 139 120 139 124 95 618 103 713 102

The diet stipulates 6 days low carb, high protein/fat with a 'cheat day', this is Saturday. The idea being, the hit of extra carbs and cals in general has less negative effect when restricted to 1 day, rather than being spread out over the week. A less generous version of the 80/20 rule.

deansdad101

I've looked closer at the last week of August,
Last week of August is a representative week, this month has been marred by a mixture of 'corrective' actions that have been mistakes and lapses due to the lack of results. I've failed to keep an accurate track of carbs, focussing on cals. Decisions such as yogurt drink as a cheap MRP (other considerations...) lead to adding quick cals, at the expense of also adding unchecked carbs.

Whilst your comments have highlighted my straying from low carbs, which I thank you for, your general tone is unhelpful. I'll not argue that a lack of information is likely responsible for wrong choices, but this isn't intentional, I don't cheat myself and am particularly strict both in the gym and at the table, in-line with current goals. Feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure around 100 and under is considered low carb, I'm not claiming Ketogenic diet at under 50 daily, though I've been in that territory before. As you can see from the data pulled from my diary, I'm consuming in excess of two-thirds of my cals from fat and protein combined.

I raised the point of the burger myself, it was on a cheat day and isn't something I do often (once or twice a year) I'm well aware of the nutrition profile of the burger and it's bun. I'd also contest that the validity of the diary entries is a pointless dig, why on earth would someone spend the time to fill out the diary with fantasy; Having been on a 'reduced' carb, 'increased' fat/protein diet for the last two years, I feel it's fair to say I see it as a lifestyle change.

Sunday 24 - Sat 30
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat T6-day Avg T7-day Avg
Cal 1412 858 1726 1725 1798 1979 2893 9498 1583 12391 1770
Carbs 134 23 75 77 60 81 258 450 75 708 101
Fat 66 44 89 102 99 121 137 521 86 658 94
Protein 31 65 139 120 139 124 95 618 103 713 102

The diet stipulates 6 days low carb, high protein/fat with a 'cheat day', this is Saturday. The idea being, the hit of extra carbs and cals in general has less negative effect when restricted to 1 day, rather than being spread out over the week. A less generous version of the 80/20 rule.

Michael;

First, I apologize for the "general tone" and hope you can understand why I might have been led in that direction.

Anyway, to your points and onward.

Yes, the small section of your diary that I viewed (last 10 or 12 days) isn't representative of the whole and knowing now that it was unintentional makes a big difference.

That said, let's focus on your comments with the understanding that while we might disagree on some specifics the end game remains the same, take my comments as suggestions not as criticisms or judgments as they are not intended as such (even if it might sound that way some times <g>). I don't do "fluff" and I'm probably not the best "cheerleader" in the world.

Your understanding of the definition of "low carb" (<100 net/day) is mine as well although there really is no "official" definition that I'm aware of. For the sake of mutual understanding I think it's safe to say that "most" would agree that 50 - 100/day is "low carb", up to 50 "very low" and <20 (usually for at least a couple weeks) the entrance to ketosis ("keto" for short).

Once keto has been established, (which usually takes 2-3 weeks consistently under 20) many are able to gradually increase daily carb intake to something greater than 20 but less than 50 and remain in the state of ketosis - it varies by individual.

Keto is very much an individual thing and to my mind NOT an absolute "requirement" for LCHF. Some are willing and able to go there, others not but the benefits gained just by reducing total carbs to 50 or so are still maintained regardless of whether one decides on keto or not. It really is, to me a separate issue. Yes the benefits are many but it simply isn't "right" for everyone.

As far as the "pointless dig", you'd be amazed (if you haven't already seen it) at the lengths some will go to in an attempt to demonize that with which they disagree or don't understand. But we're moving on from there.

On the %'s , that too is an area where reasonable folks can agree to disagree (or to find what "works" for them, within reasonable bounds).

Most agree that somewhere close to 20% protein satisfies daily requirements but that's just a "ballpark" rough rule of thumb. Daily minimums must be met but "more" is not necessarily better and may, in fact, be counter productive.

Next total daily carbs can be set as a "goal" which will change over time. For someone who had been at 150 or more, my suggestion would be to start at something less than where they have been (maybe 125 if currently at 150 e.g.) and gradually cut the target by 10 - 25 once a week or so to get down to 50. (at which point they may, or may not elect to continue to <20 and keto entrance).

Jumping from 200 to 20 is simply too much, too soon for many and results in failure.

One can use whatever method they prefer to "set" daily kcal intake - stick with what you have been doing for a start or TDEE - 10-15% is an acceptable rule of thumb.

Once protein, carb, and cal targets are known, the initial setting for fats is a simple math calculation but recognize that it be at the low end of the scale since the carb number starts out relatively high but will be changing as time goes on.

As a reference point, someone at the entering stages of keto would likely have macros on the order of 5% Carbs, 75% Fat, and 20% Protein. It varies though based on cals.

I'm not sure where "The diet stipulates 6 days low carb, high protein/fat with a 'cheat day' comes from (is that "the diet" you doc or nuit suggested or one you found on your own?).

Personally, I'm not a fan of "cheat days" and I don't believe that most of the leading proponents of LCHF would support that position but to each his/her own.

Finally, I do hope this helps and would be more than willing to answer any questions you may have that I can but I really would suggest that you venture over to the Low Carbers Daily Forum and have a look at the Forum posts. There is a wealth of information available free for the taking and a great group of people willing to help wherever they can.

We (like any other group) don't always agree but that's what makes it work and offers you a variety of viewpoints as well as access to informative links to the actual "science" behind the reasoning.

This should take you there if you are interested:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1394605-going-low-carb-pros-cons

Cheers

999tigger

9498 + 12391 you had two days where you ate that many calories? Is that a mistype?

michaelludgate31

Thanks deansdad101, I'll follow the link to pick up more information. The diet I've been following is a variant of LCHF, called SCD - Slow Carb Diet. Involving a heavy reduction in carbs, exclusion of bread/pasta/potatoes and occasional use of sweet potato. There's plenty more, but that's enough of the key factors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow-Carb_Diet

9498 + 12391 you had two days where you ate that many calories? Is that a mistype?

No, it's just not pasted nicely from a tab delimited layou. The values you're referring to are 1.Sum of Sunday to Friday, 2.Sum of Sunday to Saturday. No way I could ever eat that in a day!