Intermediate / Advanced Lifting Programs...

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Danny_Boy13
Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Ok so I have a questions for all of you weight lifters. I have been on SL 5x5 for about 2years now and looking to try something different. I would say that I am at a minimum an intermediate lifter. My goals are to not only gain strength but also size. So I think I am looking for a program that has a base foundation in strength and build on top of that with some hypertrophy work. Anything out there that you all would recommend. I like all of the compound lifts... Squat, Deads, Power Clean, Bench and Press. I was thinking of still doing the 5x5 plan but adding accessory work after that. Thoughts?

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  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
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    I was thinking of still doing the 5x5 plan but adding accessory work after that.

    That can work. For accessory hypertrophy work, machines are excellent, since they don't waste energy on stabilizer muscles (more stimulus to the target muscles). Both compound & isolation machines can be done, with the latter potentially producing more target muscle stimulation.

    Power clean isn't really a strength or size exercise, it's for speed development.
  • 212019156
    212019156 Posts: 341 Member
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    How big (weight/height) are you now and what is your body comp? If you are natural and have been lifting for 2 years consistently you probably have gained a majority of the weight you will gain naturally. After that it is really difficult.
  • explosivedonut
    explosivedonut Posts: 419 Member
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    You might want to take a look at 5/3/1 either Big But Boring variant, The Triumverate variant, or Dave Tate's Periodization Bible variant. Those are pretty good.
  • Chief_Rocka
    Chief_Rocka Posts: 4,710 Member
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    If you're still making progression with SL, then don't change anything, other than adding some accessory work.

    A lot of people go to 5/3/1 after SL, my personal opinion is that reverse pyramid training or some other type of "semi-linear" progression makes more sense as the next logical step before jumping into a periodization routine like 5/3/1.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    How big (weight/height) are you now and what is your body comp? If you are natural and have been lifting for 2 years consistently you probably have gained a majority of the weight you will gain naturally. After that it is really difficult.

    Im 5-9, 175lbs @ about 15-17% BF.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    Power clean isn't really a strength or size exercise, it's for speed development.

    I do speed skating as a hobby and this helps me develop power... which IMO is beneficial for strength gains.
  • 212019156
    212019156 Posts: 341 Member
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    Take a read through this website: http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/

    I think it is pretty accurate in determining how big you can get naturally. I know this isn't exactly what you are asking but I think it is related.

    Like a previous poster stated if its still working don't change it.

    If you want to tweak it I would make small changes. Start with reducing volume. Instead of doing 5 sets do 3. The more advanced you become the less volume you can tolerate because your nervous system can recruit more muscle fibers per contraction.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    If you're still making progression with SL, then don't change anything, other than adding some accessory work.

    I am still making some progress... just starting to get bored with the same ol same ol.
  • fivethreeone
    fivethreeone Posts: 8,196 Member
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    http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-programs/

    This is my go-to for assessing various programs based on goals. You can find some interesting stuff in here. The reviews are written from the perspective of a powerlifter, but if your goals are not so traditional-strength-only oriented that's ok too because there are several other programs reviewed there that you'll recognize as suiting your goals.

    if you're interested in crosstraining at all, I suggest looking into Juggernaut Method.

    If you're looking for strength only, yet still making gains on SL, maybe go to MadCow, then 5/3/1 when weekly gains run out. You can add hypertrophy work in accessories, especially with 5/3/1's update.
  • Chief_Rocka
    Chief_Rocka Posts: 4,710 Member
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    If you're still making progression with SL, then don't change anything, other than adding some accessory work.

    I am still making some progress... just starting to get bored with the same ol same ol.

    I think the accessory work is what you want to do then. All of the popular routines that have stood the test of time are essentially the same: Do the big compounds, follow it up with some other stuff.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
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    I'm not that experienced but I moved on to wendlers 5/3/1 after SS and I love it! 42 weeks in. Mainly strength with assistance work in the hypertrophy range - and a good read :smile:
  • 34blast
    34blast Posts: 166 Member
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    After StrongLifts or SS many people first go to the Madcow Intermediate program. It is hosted on the StrongLifts site now.
    http://stronglifts.com/madcow/
    http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
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    After stronglifts or starting strength, I would recommend moving to either Madcow intermediate or the Texas Method. If you're a frequency *kitten* there are also plans like Korte's 3x3 and Sheiko that work well for intermediates. Block Periodization is always a good place to start. There are some good articles about how to set up your block periodized training schedule on elitefts.net. Even if you don't decide to train using western periodization they are worth a read.
  • trojan_bb
    trojan_bb Posts: 699 Member
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    Doggcrap training.
    Mountain Dog training

    DC more focused on strength progression. Both geared for mass. If you're bored then stop doing the american periodized power lifting routines for a bit. 5/3/1, 5x5, etc ...it's mostly all the same.

    SS, madcows....those recommendations are all almost the exact same thing. 5/3/1 barely different..
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
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    Based on what you like to do, Texas Method sounds about right: http://www.t-nation.com/training/texas-method
  • strong_er
    strong_er Posts: 109 Member
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    Layne Norton's PHAT is good for a mix of power and hypertrophy.

    AllPro's is another good routine if you're looking for some variety.

    You could also look up a PPL routine.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
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    Power clean isn't really a strength or size exercise, it's for speed development.

    I do speed skating as a hobby and this helps me develop power... which IMO is beneficial for strength gains.

    Sprinting drills and jumping lunges would have more carryover benefit to speed skating, since the hip movement & rep range is more similar. Side lunges are excellent for skating too.
    Cleans aren't a bad exercise, just not the optimal tool for the job.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    Sprinting drills and jumping lunges would have more carryover benefit to speed skating, since the hip movement & rep range is more similar. Side lunges are excellent for skating too.
    Cleans aren't a bad exercise, just not the optimal tool for the job.

    We do lots of plyometrics... Box jumps, depth jumps, broad jumps, ect that helps develop the Type 1 fibers. Heavy Power cleans help me develop a little more strength and power.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    Ok everyone so I think I am going to try this. Let me know what you think. I have decided to take the approach of just adding in some accessory work on top of the SL 5x5. What I plan on doing is trimming off a little bit of the volume in my core lifts and then adding in a few sets on the added lifts. So here goes:

    Workout "A"
    Squat - 4 x 5
    Bench Press - 4 x 5
    Bentover Rows - 4 x 5
    Walking Lunges - 3 x 20-24
    Bench Machine - 3 x 8-10
    PullUps - 3 x Faliure

    Workout "B"
    Squat - 3 x 5
    Standing Press - 4 x 5
    Deadlift - 1 x 5
    Power Clean - 3 x 8-10
    Arnold Press - 3 x 8-10
    Dips - 3 x faliure

    The goal here is to be not only strong but to also get in there some hypertrophy. I know that diet will also be a large part of this as well. My current stats are 5-9, 173lbs @ 15-17% BF. I would like to maintain my weight in the mid 170's but drop that BF down to btwn 10-12%. I am on a speed skating team but right now we are in the off season so cardio is at a very minimal ATM. What are some macro builds that anyone could recommend? Currently @ am at a 2800 cal diet (300g Carbs, 200g Protein, 100g Fat). Is this a good build the above type of program? My TDEE cals are @ about 2600cals so I am just a little over.

    Later on when the season kicks off I am going to go with the Juggernaut program but for now I just want to get big and strong while not putting any BF on my frame. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
  • Danny_Boy13
    Danny_Boy13 Posts: 2,094 Member
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    Workout "A"
    Squat - 4 x 5
    Bench Press - 4 x 5
    Bentover Rows - 4 x 5
    Walking Lunges - 3 x 20-24
    Bench Machine - 3 x 8-10
    PullUps - 3 x Faliure

    Workout "B"
    Squat - 3 x 5
    Standing Press - 4 x 5
    Deadlift - 1 x 5
    Power Clean - 3 x 8-10
    Arnold Press - 3 x 8-10
    Dips - 3 x faliure

    I forgot to mention that on the accessory lifts (bolded) that I will be rotating those out here and there to mix it up;

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