Marathons and Weight Loss
jamielee2786
Posts: 11
Training for a marathon and training for weightloss are often two entirely different things. How do I know this? I just ran my first marathon at 196 pounds. It is now a week later, and I am dedicating the next few months to weight loss training before I jump back into long distance races. I think it would be good to discuss this topic in general because it can be frustrating - everyone pictures marathon runners as slim, muscular, "bean pole's," but it's not always the case. I got a lot of "Really!? YOU are running a marathon?!!" Yes, yes I am, and I did, and it was crazy and terrible and wonderful. After my first half marathon last year, I walked into a shoe store to get new sneakers for marathon training (about 20 lbs less than what I weigh now) and the guy at the shoe store (a very well known store in Boston, MA) was completely confused. He kept saying "So...you already did this? You already ran a half?" and "No, those shoes are for really serious runners..." Oh well now that you put it that way, I guess training for and running 13.1 miles with 30 lbs of excess weight makes me a "pretend" runner?? I have been back to a different location of that store, and the girl who helped me was great (got my lovely brooks ghost 7's in 1/2 a size up to account for swelling - which was never mentioned by the other guy). So i guess the message is - take heart my friends! Nolite te bastardes carborundorum!
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Congrats on your marathon.
I seem to be in the minority, but during my marathon training cycles, I could not keep the weight on me. Those were the 2 lightest weights I've been during my adult life. I think far too many people use all the running as an open license to eat all they want. Sometimes it can take a little bit of trial and error finding the sweet spot of calories, but once you do, you can lose weight and successfully train.0 -
OP, I don't think that's just marathons - that tends to go for fitness, in general. I've been overweight for a little while, but I have never ceased to amaze people with how long/fast I can run or how strong I am.
In any case, I sincerely don't think marathon and weightloss training need to be mutually exclusive (indeed, I'm doing both right now), but you do what makes you happy and healthy. Build a strong support network -- just ignore the people who seem "aghast" at your accomplishments and continue to prove your capabilities!0 -
This is a great topic, thanks for posting. While I did run my best times when I weighed 35 pounds less than I do now (in the 10k), my training times are just as good now and I have started running longer distances (half marathon and many more 10k's). That is not to say that I wouldn't much prefer weighing 35 pounds less again (or at least 25), but I'm not going to stop running in order to do it. Just wish I could figure out how to have the best of both worlds....0
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Yup, yup!! I know how hungry I tend to get during marathon training cycles and it's not always a weight loss. After a serious hiatus, I decided to shed 25 pounds over 6 months and build a base fitness BEFORE starting this half marathon training cycle. I'm feeling lighter and fitter than ever and am within 5 pounds of goal weight. I'm really glad I took the time to do that first.
I think you're smart to focus on weight loss before starting up training for your next race. I bet you'll notice a difference! I can definitely go faster and with less effort now than I could 25 pounds ago.
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Last year when training for my half I pretty much maintained. When I first started I was eating too little for the increased miles and getting sick so I upped to maintain.
This year I figured out appropriate calories and am losing during my half training. I am making sure I am eating enough and on my long run days I bump my calories up to maintenance to account for the extra calories and hunger.
I think weight loss and training can be done and like someone else said you just need to find the balance. Although when I start training for my marathon next year I hope to be at my desired weight and hopefully can maintain through training.
As far as the sales guy, sometimes they are just duds. The first time I was fitted the guy insisted I go up an entire size from my normal 7.5. I kept telling him they were too big and felt as if they were slipping off my heel. He said I just needed to tie them correctly. I thought ok, you are the "expert", bought the shoes knowing I could return them. I went for my first run and barely made it down the street. I took them back and had a very helpful woman who took me down to an 8 and found a great pair.
I have seen every age, shape and body type at my races. I don't get why people are so surprised about this.0 -
I like the advice to concentrate on losing before training. I think I needed to hear that now as I've been struggling with trying to do both at the same time. I think I will try to keep running to maintain the fitness but not concentrate on improving times or distances until I lose the weight first.0
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Great topic, and timely for me.
I love how people assume that you have to be thin to be healthy. I personally have seen that theory dis-proven many many times, and I try to keep it in mind when I'm having one of those days where I'm not feeling confident about my weight. In fact, during one of my 10km races, an overweight man blew past me - on the back of his shirt it said "fat, diabetic, and beating you". Cracked me up, and I thought "good for you!"
I'm currently training for my fifth half, my second since having a child and packing on some weight. Although my decision to lose weight and do a half were separate decisions, the weight is flying off while I'm on my half training program (41lbs since mid-June). I've upped my calories a few times to try to slow down the process, but the fact is, I simply cannot "eat back" even close to the amount of calories I'm burning during my training. I've come to the conclusion that it will be even out once I'm done my half and am not training so much.
I have to say though, doing a half is much easier when 40lbs lighter. My last one (first after having a child) I was at 2:47, and this time I'm on track for about 2:15.0 -
Thanks for all the great comments! I agree, that marathon training and weight loss do not "have" to be mutually exclusive, but I do feel that it is more difficult and requires a bit more focus than I was able to expend at the time.
I am currently also in my third year of law school ("what is a weekend?") and was dealing with the "guilt" of training when I felt I should be studying, so all extra brain power was allocated to school, rather than counting calories and keeping track of my protein/carb/sugar intake, although I was making efforts to eat relatively healthy (I cook most of my meals). Now that training is no longer a part of my focus, I am having an easier time with my diet and weight-loss goals. I don't need to plan my weekends or my studies around my long runs anymore, and it has been a wonderful break.
Thanks again for all the comments, I'm glad I was able to promote some conversation on the topic
smartladieslovestuff.com/stuffwelove/smart-ladies-love-tv-who-we-think-will-win-an-emmy/attachment/lady-violet-what-is-a-weekend0 -
I've run half dozen marathons at various weights during the last 15 years. I love the melting pot of shapes,sizes and ages not to mention the gear that you see at the starting area! Yea for diversity! The diverse starting line population has such great commradarie because the basic goal for all is the same-finish. Cheers to anyone who wants to give it a go, it is a goal unto itself.0
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I get the same thing when I reveal that I'm 56. They're like, what? You can't do that. You're 56. Just remember we're the ones who are getting the last laugh. Rock on!0
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Sadly, I put on weight training for my marathon. On a completely unrelated thing, I got injured and I'm on the shelf for another week and have been for a bit. I plan on getting down to "fighting weight" before I start training for my next marathon. Training starts late February...
If I'm down to "fighting weight" I hope to just maintain. At least I didn't jump a pants size or anything.
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Running is addictive and have fun with it that is my philosophy. I am not quite ready for a marathon I have my first half in February.
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It is a lot of combo stress. I think the problem of doing the training and weight loss together comes in from not taking a reasonable deficit for the amount of training being done, and not having a good calorie burn estimate to make that deficit.
Body recovers slower in a deficit anyway, accidentally have it too big, bad performance. Too small, little weight loss. Way too big, negative adaptations by the body.
I've helped a few using Fitbit's lately that have noticed what studies have already shown - if you undereat too much, the body slows down rest of your activity.
And they noticed that, accounting for steps that may have been done during the longer training, they just slowed down their day and didn't burn as much outside exercise.
What would have been normal 2000 daily burn with say 1000 cal run, becomes 1700 and 1000. If not using a Fitbit - they would never have caught that fact.
I noticed it 2 springs ago when I was using calorie burn formula based on older VO2max test. Performance ho-hum, weight loss little to none. Got another VO2max test after race and new formula - I was way off on calorie burns, creating terribly big deficit for what I was trying to accomplish.
Using the new formula and basically eating more because I did burn more - lost the weight and performance got better.0 -
I was actually thinking about this today. I am 2 weeks out from my first half marathon and I've been training since July. I realized I hadn't weighed myself in a while so I stepped on the scale this morning and I weigh exactly the same as I did in July before I started training. My long runs make me RAVENOUS afterward and since I haven't lost weight, I clearly eat the calories to make up for all of the calories burned. I'm glad I don't overdo it either though. I'm in maintenance so I wasn't trying to lose/gain but I wouldn't have been mad about a few lbs lost.
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This is a wonderful thread, and an issue that isn't discussed enough. There is a different "running weight" for everyone, sometimes even multiple ones. I've run three marathons, including Boston 2014 (I re-qualified while I was there, so I'm planning on 2015 too! Training for ten minutes faster than last year!), and a few ultra marathons.
It's cool to hear you're in law school, since I'm in grad school studying Geochemistry. From high school through now, because of school work and stress, my weight has been all over the charts, but I've kept running. And guess what? My marathon time at 145 isn't much slower than my marathon time at 115 (I'm short. Admittedly, the times are harder to achieve at heavier weights. More mass to haul up a hill. Actually, I'm finding it's great to do base building at a heavier weight, while planning on losing a bit to do speed work, etc. I feel stronger when the weight comes off. Free strength training!). In fact, below about 110, I start slowing down a lot, yet I got comments along the line of "You're in such great shape now! I bet your times are so much faster!" Whereas, heavier, no one assumed I ran, and was surprised to hear I did. There was some internal conflict in me between this making me very upset and me taking pride in surprising the people I passed during races, especially as they tried to keep up. It would also make me mad when I was TRAINING if someone walking on the trail would look at me and say something like "You're doing really well!" or "You can do it!" even if I was going ridiculously slowly. My mom has dealt with similar issues, especially now that she's in her 60s. The combination of age and weight fluctuations tends to surprise people. You cannot speculate on someone's health based solely on appearance.
There's even more body diversity in ultra running. I think you have to be a bit sturdier than a road runner to excel on the trails for 12-48hrs. People in the ultra community also seem more accepting.0 -
I am currently trying to drop about 4lbs while nearing the end of my marathon build. I look at my logs and just shake my head. I am eating 2500cal/day on average. I am losing weight at just under 1lb/week. I am burning, on average, 950/day according to my Garmin. I believe that number too because everything adds up.
Crazy how much I have been eating and still dropping weight - and in a sense I am almost not even trying because I simply can't eat enough even if I wanted to maintain.0 -
My opinion is weight loss and running marathons are not mutually exclusive. I was 235ish in Dec 2013 for my second marathon (4:56) and about 210 in May 2014 for my third (4:28). I'll be about 180 for my fifth in 2 weeks (Monumental) and expect to finish around 3:45. Also, my diet was less than 20% carbs.0
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hermann341 wrote: »My opinion is weight loss and running marathons are not mutually exclusive. I was 235ish in Dec 2013 for my second marathon (4:56) and about 210 in May 2014 for my third (4:28). I'll be about 180 for my fifth in 2 weeks (Monumental) and expect to finish around 3:45. Also, my diet was less than 20% carbs.
While not mutually exclusive you *do* have to be careful to still fuel your body for the training. You can under-fuel a *little* to drop weight but it is dangerous to try to drop significant weight, at least towards the end of the build.0 -
hermann341 wrote: »My opinion is weight loss and running marathons are not mutually exclusive. I was 235ish in Dec 2013 for my second marathon (4:56) and about 210 in May 2014 for my third (4:28). I'll be about 180 for my fifth in 2 weeks (Monumental) and expect to finish around 3:45. Also, my diet was less than 20% carbs.
While not mutually exclusive you *do* have to be careful to still fuel your body for the training. You can under-fuel a *little* to drop weight but it is dangerous to try to drop significant weight, at least towards the end of the build.
As a low carber, my fat is my fuel. I save my glycogen for my brain. I'm about at my desired weight, so I will be transitioning to maintenance, but my carbs will stay at about 20%.
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hermann341 wrote: »
As a low carber, my fat is my fuel. I save my glycogen for my brain. I'm about at my desired weight, so I will be transitioning to maintenance, but my carbs will stay at about 20%.
Fat is slow to metabolize under load. I can't imagine trying to be low-carb and do endurance training.0 -
hermann341 wrote: »hermann341 wrote: »My opinion is weight loss and running marathons are not mutually exclusive. I was 235ish in Dec 2013 for my second marathon (4:56) and about 210 in May 2014 for my third (4:28). I'll be about 180 for my fifth in 2 weeks (Monumental) and expect to finish around 3:45. Also, my diet was less than 20% carbs.
While not mutually exclusive you *do* have to be careful to still fuel your body for the training. You can under-fuel a *little* to drop weight but it is dangerous to try to drop significant weight, at least towards the end of the build.
As a low carber, my fat is my fuel. I save my glycogen for my brain. I'm about at my desired weight, so I will be transitioning to maintenance, but my carbs will stay at about 20%.
Low carb'ing may improve the ratio's of energy source for fuel during training - but you are not defying the metabolic pathways when your intensity increases and carbs are indeed used more and more.
Best I've seen from someone actually measuring their own results in keto compared to out - already fit so no change there, was at prior level of 50% fat/carbs was changed to 55% fat in keto. Still 45% carb usage at that point. And lactate threshold lowered for high end efforts when it was total carb burn - but that didn't matter to him because he was doing endurance anyway, not sprints.
Besides, the muscle stored glycogen can't be put in to the blood stream for the brain to use anyway, so perhaps you are thinking about and talking about the liver stores being maximized, but then again, when in keto you aren't using carbs for the brain, and 20% carbs isn't getting you in to keto anyway.
I think you are just making sure you stay in the Active Recovery (aka fat-burning) HR zone to maximize fat usage, which is great for ultra-endurance. Rather a slowdown otherwise for most.0 -
I think you are just making sure you stay in the Active Recovery (aka fat-burning) HR zone to maximize fat usage, which is great for ultra-endurance. Rather a slowdown otherwise for most.
So what would that be for someone age 50? I just did a 22 mile, 3+ hour run on nothing but electrolytes and water, with an average HR of 145.0 -
I think you are just making sure you stay in the Active Recovery (aka fat-burning) HR zone to maximize fat usage, which is great for ultra-endurance. Rather a slowdown otherwise for most.
Pretty much all that would be able to accomplish in a low-carb situation is Zone1 type stuff. Slow for a "marathon" but I guess it works at ultra-type distances. But even then you want something that you can actually metabolize for fuel, which is going to be carbs. Fat has to convert via enzymes into sugars so that you can burn them and that process takes longer than the available time needed to use them. This is pretty much the definition of "the wall" for marathoners. You run out of free blood glucose and glycogen, and the best you can really do then is move slowly under "fat power"
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hermann341 wrote: »
I think you are just making sure you stay in the Active Recovery (aka fat-burning) HR zone to maximize fat usage, which is great for ultra-endurance. Rather a slowdown otherwise for most.
So what would that be for someone age 50? I just did a 22 mile, 3+ hour run on nothing but electrolytes and water, with an average HR of 145.
That would be the top of my Recovery HR zone right now (based on Lactate Threshold), and my HRmax hasn't lowered in the last 10 years, so I'd expect it to be the same.
My first 2 marathons were accomplished with no mid-race fueling for blood sugars either, and done at average 8:30/mile pace.
So ya, entirely possible. I also specifically trained that way for them - Maffetone method, maximize aerobic function, or fat burning, while going faster. Worked great with the Zone diet at the time.
It's a misnomer that the mid-race fueling is for your muscles - you could never take in enough fuel to be absorbed during the run to actually fuel the muscles and that high rate of calorie burn. Best you can do is keep blood sugar and brain function where it's at.
The training you've done has maximized both fat usage and carb storage in muscles - so you got enough to last - which is what is required.
As mentioned above, the real wall, running out of muscle glycogen stores, and now only fat and blood sugar as fuel source can be used - causes a huge slowdown to accomplish, as there just isn't that much blood sugar available for much intensity.0 -
Well, I haven't hit my top speed yet, and expect to qualify for Boston with my March marathon. So whatever I'm doing seems to be working.0
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I see plenty of heavy people running marathons who finish better than I ever could.0
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