MFP Goals < BMR. Sounds unsafe.

heathersmilez

Here’s yet another math question I find interesting.

Why are the MFP goals under the BMR?

MFP sets my goal to 1260 (1 lb weekly, I am 5’8, 138 lbs, BMI 21, body fat 22%) my BMR is 1400 calories so that’s how much my body requires to function and I burn 1885 calories a day (just living, no exercise accounted) which would be my maintenance caloric burn.

Not accounting for any sort of exercise, wouldn’t eating under your BMR be highly discouraged? The deficit is calculated from your maintenance calories NOT your BMR so this sounds odd.

barbacasec

From my understanding MFP - calculates your goal calories based on no exercise no nothing just basic living - so in order to lose 1 lb a week with out exercise you are to eat 1260. - below your BMR because it doesnt factor in any exercise. just calories in so you need to eat less than your BMR to lose weight. However for any exercise you do that you burn calories for you need to eat those calories back so that you net for the day is 1260 - and you will lose 1 lb per week. it also depends on how active you said you were on a daily basis without "exercise" because that factors into the calculation (BMR)

so for example- mine is set at 1200 to lose 2lbs a week without exercise -
when I run and burn say 384 calories - I need to eat those calories back because the 1200 calories already is my deficit in order to lose 2 lbs a week - so technically that day I need to eat 1584 calories- (my net calories)

heathersmilez

From my understanding MFP - calculates your goal calories based on no exercise no nothing just basic living - so in order to lose 1 lb a week with out exercise you are to eat 1260. - below your BMR because it doesnt factor in any exercise. just calories in so you need to eat less than your BMR to lose weight. However for any exercise you do that you burn calories for you need to eat those calories back so that you net for the day is 1260 - and you will lose 1 lb per week. it also depends on how active you said you were on a daily basis without "exercise" because that factors into the calculation (BMR)

so for example- mine is set at 1200 to lose 2lbs a week without exercise -
when I run and burn say 384 calories - I need to eat those calories back because the 1200 calories already is my deficit in order to lose 2 lbs a week - so technically that day I need to eat 1584 calories- (my net calories)

I’m afraid it seems you aren’t sure what BMR is. I'll quote it to avoid argument, "Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the number of calories your body burns at rest to maintain normal body functions. It is the amount of calories per day your body burns, regardless of exercise. It changes with age, weight, height, gender, diet and exercise habits".

If your guess was correct it would take me 25 days to loose 1 lb and not 1 week as per MFP's calculations.

So again, seems like eating below the BMR would be what induces starvation aka preservation mode not the seemingly randomly chosen 1200 for women and 1500 for men limits.

SHBoss1673

Here’s yet another math question I find interesting.

Why are the MFP goals under the BMR?

MFP sets my goal to 1260 (1 lb weekly, I am 5’8, 138 lbs, BMI 21, body fat 22%) my BMR is 1400 calories so that’s how much my body requires to function and I burn 1885 calories a day (just living, no exercise accounted) which would be my maintenance caloric burn.

Not accounting for any sort of exercise, wouldn’t eating under your BMR be highly discouraged? The deficit is calculated from your maintenance calories NOT your BMR so this sounds odd.

because with a body fat % of 22, you shouldn't be attempting a 1 lb per week weight loss. More like 1/3 or 1/4 of a lb a week. Remember, mfp's goals calculator doesn't tell you how fast to lose, it just tries to get you there, determining a correct goal for you is on you.

heathersmilez

because with a body fat % of 22, you shouldn't be attempting a 1 lb per week weight loss. More like 1/3 or 1/4 of a lb a week. Remember, mfp's goals calculator doesn't tell you how fast to lose, it just tries to get you there, determining a correct goal for you is on you.

22% however from a doctor run hand-held electrical device. Scales that you can buy yourself and stand on are 4-5% higher. Without doing the water submersion test let’s just say the worst number is true.... but putting that aside, still eating under BMR mathematically seems like it would be starvation.

Ps: thanks for finding my post boss, we all know you are the expert as these calculations

So you agree then that the MFP calculations are based on BMR and not maintenance and that is a safe calculation? As I said however if this is true, it would take 25 days for me to lose 1 lb not 1 week. If I burned 500 cals a day I could lose 1 lb every 5 days but that would mean I'm not eating back by exercise calories which truly would put me into starvation mode by not properly fueling my body.

SHBoss1673

because with a body fat % of 22, you shouldn't be attempting a 1 lb per week weight loss. More like 1/3 or 1/4 of a lb a week. Remember, mfp's goals calculator doesn't tell you how fast to lose, it just tries to get you there, determining a correct goal for you is on you.

22% however from a doctor run hand-held electrical device. Scales that you can buy yourself and stand on are 4-5% higher. Without doing the water submersion test let’s just say the worst number is true.... but putting that aside, still eating under BMR mathematically seems like it would be starvation.

Ps: thanks for finding my post boss, we all know you are the expert as these calculations

So you agree then that the MFP calculations are based on BMR and not maintenance and that is a safe calculation? As I said however if this is true, it would take 25 days for me to loose 1 lb not 1 week.

mfp is based on maintenance weight. MFP probably set your maintenance weight at around 1760 cals per day. So when you put a goal of 1 lb per week in, it subtracts 500 calories a day from your maintenance calories to get the 1260. Every site has a slightly different activity calculation, so if you did your own and it came out higher, it's fine to set the stuff up manually.

BMR doesn't need to even enter the equation except to be a number that someone who is at a relatively healthy weight should try to always remain above when figuring out a defict. Other than that, don't factor BMR in at all. It's neither an easy thing to accurately calculate, nor is it particularly helpful as a goal.

hpsnickers1

I've stopped worrying about the BMR number. I just make sure I am eating at least 1200 calories per day although I do go under a few days a week - just no more than 2 days in a row. If I exercise one day and burn say 400 then I make sure I eat enough of my exercise calories to put me back over 1200. Yesterday I burned 403 and my calories hit 1481 by the end of the night - and I had 2 meals last night - dinner wasn't enough to get me to 1200. (MFP has my BMR set at only 1500)

When you are already at a healthy weight but want to lose a few more it's hard to get a decent calorie deficiency to lose a pound a week. I set mine at a 1/2 pound and that doesn't happen either. I'm finding kicking up the exercise is helping - especially the moderate intensity treadmill walks for about 45-60 minutes - a good fat burning walk although I have a tendency to jog a couple of minutes each 5 minute increment to get my heart rate up and burn more calories. The last couple of weeks I have started these and all of a sudden pounds are melting off. Of course I still do 30 minute HIITs and Jillian's workout DVD's (love the No More Trouble Zones). Maybe it's just a fluke but I'm down 5 pounds as of this morning. When I bought my scale 2 weeks ago it was 130.

TrainingWithTonya

According to everything I've been taught in Sports Nutrition, you should be eating a minimum of your BMR and no less then 80% of your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (which is BMR + activity level + planned exercise) But the problem is that a lot of places use the activity level calories as the BMR, which is incorrect, so if you just get your BMR from a website, you don't know if it is truly accurate. MFP gives you a calorie goal based on activity level minus a calorie estimate to lose your goal. So, if you want to lose 1 pound a week, then it will subtract 500 calories from your BMR + activity level calories per day. It uses that as your goal giving you a deficit so that you can eat all of your exercise calories and still be in a deficit. This is fine for the general public, who unfortunately tend to have a lot to lose, but not so hot for athletes or people who exercise regularly. The body has to have a minimum number of calories in relation to what you are burning in order to continue losing body fat and maintaining muscle mass. If it doesn't have a calorie intake close to what it is burning, then it will go into that starvation mode everyone is always talking about. From basic nutrition classes, we're taught 1200 for women and 1500 for men, which is where MFP gets that minimum intake of 1200. But once we go on to more advanced nutrition classes for athletes and exercisers, we learn the 80% rule. So, if you have a BMR of 1400 with an activity of 1800 and exercise 200, you get a Total Daily Energy Expenditure of 2000 calories. (Activity includes the BMR, so you only add the activity and exercise amounts) 80% of 2000 is 1600, so you shouldn't eat less then 1600 on that day to prevent starvation mode. That number changes however on days when you don't exercise because the TDEE is only 1800. 80% of that is 1440. Notice that both of those are above the BMR. I tell all my clients to never eat below the BMR, specifically because the body needs fuel for the activity we're doing. Even sedentary individuals get an activity addition of 20% (Standard multiplication factor for determining activity calories from BMR), so that if they cut 20% to lose weight they are still eating the BMR. Unfortunately, while I love MFP, it's just too much for computer programmers to put in all the possible combinations of numbers in their programs so they have to set a standard number. Sometimes that standard doesn't work because you are setting goals higher then what your body is really willing to work with. This is why I set up my own numbers on MFP.

heathersmilez

Thank you Tony, that was excellent advise and really confirmed what I believed to be the case (eating your BMR or above).

Just hearing all the facts you provided I believe will really help me be at peace with eating 1600-1800 calories a day on my active days, maybe even more. I find when I go slightly over (less than 100) of my calorie allotment on exercise days (which meant I ate like 1800) my mind goes into the "you screwed up, might as well eat whatever you want" mode and then suddenly I’m now over by 1000+ for the day. It’s not even an enjoyable feast with friends or family, it’s at home not being productive after dinner. Albeit at least on those so-called binges it’s all food that's in my house so its whole-wheat bread, crackers, all-bran, pineapple, a pudding cup - nothing unhealthy in and of itself (I haven't been to McDonalds in 2+ years, just not interested and it’s not filling for all those calories it’s a waist) just too much food of course + it’s all processed foods and all carbs.

Thanks again for your assistance with those calculations, much appreciated!

SHBoss1673

Thank you Tony, that was excellent advise and really confirmed what I believed to be the case (eating your BMR or above).

Just hearing all the facts you provided I believe will really help me be at peace with eating 1600-1800 calories a day on my active days, maybe even more. I find when I go slightly over (less than 100) of my calorie allotment on exercise days (which meant I ate like 1800) my mind goes into the "you screwed up, might as well eat whatever you want" mode and then suddenly I’m now over by 1000+ for the day. It’s not even an enjoyable feast with friends or family, it’s at home not being productive after dinner. Albeit at least on those so-called binges it’s all food that's in my house so its whole-wheat bread, crackers, all-bran, pineapple, a pudding cup - nothing unhealthy in and of itself (I haven't been to McDonalds in 2+ years, just not interested and it’s not filling for all those calories it’s a waist) just too much food of course + it’s all processed foods and all carbs.

Thanks again for your assistance with those calculations, much appreciated!

Just so you know (this happens a lot) her name is Tonya, it is cut off in her avatar because it's to long.

heathersmilez

Just so you know (this happens a lot) her name is Tonya, it is cut off in her avatar because it's to long.

Thanks - sorry Tonya!!

If been referencing others back to this thread and I made sure to correct myself in the future.

Mads1997

Bumping to read later

taso42_DELETED

One thing you can do, to sort of "dial in" MFP, is estimate your daily calorie expenditure by some other means, subtract your desired daily deficit from that number, then bump up MFP's activity level setting until the calories MFP gives you are what they should be. I had to bump mine up a couple of times.

robin52077

One thing you can do, to sort of "dial in" MFP, is estimate your daily calorie expenditure by some other means, subtract your desired daily deficit from that number, then bump up MFP's activity level setting until the calories MFP gives you are what they should be. I had to bump mine up a couple of times.

Me too! I found out that I am "highly active".
Go figure.
I eat at LEAST 1600 a day now.

taso42_DELETED

Me too! I found out that I am "highly active".
Go figure.
I eat at LEAST 1600 a day now.

I found out that I was above "Very Active" and had to manually bump the calories up to 2000/day. Go figure, as I sit at a desk all day when I'm not working out. I usually end up eating around 2250 once the exercise is factored in. No complaints here, I love eating

leannems

I too feel like I need help with this.

Let me get the facts in first:

I am very overweight - looking to lose 100 lbs total, stick it for a bit, and then see if I can get off another 20 pounds. I want to do this slowly - over years - the healthy way.

MFP recommends that I eat 1490 calories when I don't work out. This is on a 2lb weight loss, which I think is reasonable for now. I plan on adjusting to 1.5 when I have 75 lbs left, 1 at 40 lbs left, and .5 at 25 lbs or less.

When I work out, I eat most of my exercise calories (not all of them, because I think MFP overestimates).

But MFP says my BMR is 1995. My goal is under this.
My TDEE is 2394. If I subtract 20%, this is under my BMR. If I subtract 20%, my goal is still far less. MFP's goal is roughly 68% of my TDEE.

Is following MFP's goal unhealthy for me? We're talking like a 500 calorie difference here. Or am I ok at this because of the significant amount I have to lose?

I guess my question is - do I eat at MFP goal, and add in exercise calories on the days I work out, or do I eat at TDEE-20% and add in exercise calories up to my BMR on the days I work out?

TrainingWithTonya

I too feel like I need help with this.

Let me get the facts in first:

I am very overweight - looking to lose 100 lbs total, stick it for a bit, and then see if I can get off another 20 pounds. I want to do this slowly - over years - the healthy way.

MFP recommends that I eat 1490 calories when I don't work out. This is on a 2lb weight loss, which I think is reasonable for now. I plan on adjusting to 1.5 when I have 75 lbs left, 1 at 40 lbs left, and .5 at 25 lbs or less.

When I work out, I eat most of my exercise calories (not all of them, because I think MFP overestimates).

But MFP says my BMR is 1995. My goal is under this.
My TDEE is 2394. If I subtract 20%, this is under my BMR. If I subtract 20%, my goal is still far less. MFP's goal is roughly 68% of my TDEE.

Is following MFP's goal unhealthy for me? We're talking like a 500 calorie difference here. Or am I ok at this because of the significant amount I have to lose?

I guess my question is - do I eat at MFP goal, and add in exercise calories on the days I work out, or do I eat at TDEE-20% and add in exercise calories up to my BMR on the days I work out?

Where are you getting the BMR number? Different formulas will estimate it differently, so I highly recommend getting it professionally estimated (either in a lab or via a nutritionist or exercise physiologist) and then reset the goals on MFP accordingly. If you don't have access to someone who can give you accurate Calorie estimates where you are, PM me on here and I'll let you know what I need to do the calculations for you like I would do for my clients.