Cardio vs Strength Training

karl1744

Does it make any difference whether you do cardio or strength training first? One trainer said that I should do strength training first so I wasn't as tired and could give more effort. Another trainer said that I should do cardio first so that my muscles were warmed up and could give better performance. Does it make a difference?

Strenght Training first always then cardio

BigBoneSista

I follow a 15 min, 30 min,15 min schedule. cardio, strength train, cardio.

I find breaking up my cardio in 15 minute increments allows me to burn more calories during my strength training period.

If I strength train longer I still break my cardio up in 15 min increments.

Oh I forgot to mention that I burn calories more this way then doing all my cardio 1st or doing all my strength training first. I don't know why. I just do. I wear a HRM when working out.

karl1744

I follow a 15 min, 30 min,15 min schedule. cardio, strength train, cardio.

I find breaking up my cardio in 15 minute increments allows me to burn more calories during my strength training period.

If I strength train longer I still break my cardio up in 15 min increments.

Oh I forgot to mention that I burn calories more this way then doing all my cardio 1st or doing all my strength training first. I don't know why. I just do. I wear a HRM when working out.

Hay Desirai,
Its a common problem with people who train and want to lose weight because they are so fixed on the cal they burn, but what they forget is it isnt till you get out of the gym and start eating and fueling back up,that is were the real magic begins.
When people cardio they should really be doing it to fat burn not Calorie burn, big difference. I will only over do cardio first thing in the morning before breaky thats (fat burning) as soon as you eat that day and then do cardio its only calorie burning, and if your going to do that is better staying longer and working harder on the weights as it is proven to burn more fat then cardio. to put it into a way people will understand clearly, your body doesnt even get warmed up till at least 10-15min depending on fitness level so really doing 15min then weights then 15 min again isnt doing much at all, you would be better doing 45min-1hr cardio in the morning then weights in afternoon evening if you can...... We did a project for the british institute of sport on this subject and for a 45min workout with weights, to get the same results in FAT burning only you would have to do 3hr and 21mins of cardio..... unreal isnt it. I hope this helps

pyro13g

Fuel substrate use matters little relative to fat loss. Heck, the greatest percentage of fat is burned at low intensities of activity, so following that logic, why not sit your way to fat loss?

Please? Can I really?

I should be skinny by now! :bigsmile:

Whether low intensity cardio or high intensity cardio the difference in percent fat used as fuel is negligible. High intensity just burns more calories in the same period of time.

http://www.myfooddiary.com/resources/ask_the_expert/fat-burning_zone_myth.asp

DianaPowerUp

I do it the way our gym has the classes scheduled, which is strength training first, then cardio.

pyro13g

If i could still go for run after a legs weights session then i clearly didn't work hard enough. Lol.
:happy:

If i can walk up the basement stairs I obviously did not not accomplish my goal. And that should be from one set leg curls, one set leg extensions, and one set leg press(can't do squats with my back issues). I should be crawling up. If washing my hair the next day is easy to get my arms up their, I did not work to required intensity on one set barbell curl and one set tricep-extension. If I can lift anything over my head I did not do my military press with enough intensity. If I can only function within me cubicle(typeing lifting a pen, etc) then I did it right last night.

Azdak

A literature review published in 2009 pointed out the weak link in a lot of these studies. The main problem is that they look only at what happens during the exercise workout itself and not what happens the rest of the day.

There are a number of things you can do --both right before a workout and as a result of longer-term training adaptations--to increase the amount of fat burned during a workout. That has been shown numerous times.

However when you look at 24 fat oxidation (which is really what counts, not what happens in a 45 min workout), the research reported that there was no difference in total fat oxidation between those who burned more fat during their exercise workout and those who burned less. In essence, in response to what occurred during the workout, the body burned more or less fat throughout the day, so that after 24 hrs, total fat oxidation and percentage of fat burned as a fuel showed no significant difference.

That has led me to become very skeptical about any study that shows any acute change during exercise and then tries to generalize those results to a long-term permanent effect.

Back to your original citation: There are also studies that show a greater elevated post oxygen consumption (EPOC) in subjects who do cardio first followed by resistance training. So, it's like which do you want -- more fat burned during the workout or more calories burned AFTER the workout?

That's meant to be rhetorical. For the record, I wouldn't pay any attention to either result--especially since those small changes mean almost nothing to the average exerciser/dieter.

Refreshingly well said.

BTW, the citation is:

Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2009 April ; 37(2): 93–101. doi:10.1097/JES.0b013e31819c2f0b.

Exercise improves fat metabolism in muscle but does not
increase 24-h fat oxidation

Edward L Melanson, Ph.D.1,2, Paul S. MacLean, Ph.D.1,2, and James O. Hill, Ph.D.2,3
1Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Diabetes, University of Colorado Denver, School of
Medicine, Denver, CO
2Center for Human Nutrition, University of Colorado Denver, School of Medicine, Denver, CO
3Department of Pediatrics, Section of Nutrition University of Colorado Denver, School of
Medicine, Denver, CO

Abstract
Despite decades of research into the effects of exercise on fat metabolism, there is still no clear
understanding of how exercise helps to regulate fat mass. Although exercise improves the capacity
of muscle to oxidize fat, our studies suggest that moderate duration exercise (≤ 1 hr) has little
impact on 24-h fat oxidation.

stroutman81

Strenght Training first always then cardio

One thing I've learned is there are no absolutes when it comes to fitness. Except the fact that there are absolutely no absolutes.

stroutman81

BTW, the citation is:

Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2009 April ; 37(2): 93–101. doi:10.1097/JES.0b013e31819c2f0b.

Exercise improves fat metabolism in muscle but does not
increase 24-h fat oxidation

Edward L Melanson, Ph.D.1,2, Paul S. MacLean, Ph.D.1,2, and James O. Hill, Ph.D.2,3
1Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Diabetes, University of Colorado Denver, School of
Medicine, Denver, CO
2Center for Human Nutrition, University of Colorado Denver, School of Medicine, Denver, CO
3Department of Pediatrics, Section of Nutrition University of Colorado Denver, School of
Medicine, Denver, CO

Abstract
Despite decades of research into the effects of exercise on fat metabolism, there is still no clear
understanding of how exercise helps to regulate fat mass. Although exercise improves the capacity
of muscle to oxidize fat, our studies suggest that moderate duration exercise (≤ 1 hr) has little
impact on 24-h fat oxidation.

I've the full paper and have referenced it a number of times. Thanks.

Here's another interesting meta review regarding EPOC:

LaForgia J et. al. Effects of exercise intensity and duration on the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. J Sports Sci. 2006 Dec;24(12):1247-64.

Recovery from a bout of exercise is associated with an elevation in metabolism referred to as the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC). A number of investigators in the first half of the last century reported prolonged EPOC durations and that the EPOC was a major component of the thermic effect of activity. It was therefore thought that the EPOC was a major contributor to total daily energy expenditure and hence the maintenance of body mass. Investigations conducted over the last two or three decades have improved the experimental protocols used in the pioneering studies and therefore have more accurately characterized the EPOC. Evidence has accumulated to suggest an exponential relationship between exercise intensity and the magnitude of the EPOC for specific exercise durations. Furthermore, work at exercise intensities >or=50-60% VO2max stimulate a linear increase in EPOC as exercise duration increases. The existence of these relationships with resistance exercise at this stage remains unclear because of the limited number of studies and problems with quantification of work intensity for this type of exercise. Although the more recent studies do not support the extended EPOC durations reported by some of the pioneering investigators, it is now apparent that a prolonged EPOC (3-24 h) may result from an appropriate exercise stimulus (submaximal: >or=50 min at >or=70% VO2max; supramaximal: >or=6 min at >or=105% VO2max). However, even those studies incorporating exercise stimuli resulting in prolonged EPOC durations have identified that the EPOC comprises only 6-15% of the net total oxygen cost of the exercise. But this figure may need to be increased when studies utilizing intermittent work bouts are designed to allow the determination of rest interval EPOCs, which should logically contribute to the EPOC determined following the cessation of the last work bout. Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the earlier research optimism regarding an important role for the EPOC in weight loss is generally unfounded. This is further reinforced by acknowledging that the exercise stimuli required to promote a prolonged EPOC are unlikely to be tolerated by non-athletic individuals. The role of exercise in the maintenance of body mass is therefore predominantly mediated via the cumulative effect of the energy expenditure during the actual exercise.

EmpressOfJudgment

Wow. What an overload of information. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. Normally, I like to go into things with all the knowledge I can, but it seems as one digs deeper into this it just gets more confusing. So many contradicing ideas.

Nonetheless, thanks to Stroutman and Azdak for dispelling the myths.