Blog on Short and Long term underfeeding

SHBoss1673

I've started a blog on the nutrition and wellness that I'll be updating weekly. feel free to read up.

http://banks1850-machinations.blogspot.com

this week is on short and long term underfeeding.

AwMyLoLo

bump

coachdoubled

Awesome, Banks! Thank you for starting a blog, I for one will be reading it religously. I can't imagine what possessed you to choose that for an initial topic

I can almost forgive you for the whole Red Sox thing. If you become a Cubs fan, I may vote for you for President!

Keep up the great work and thank you for helping to enlighten the rest of us.

Darren

arewethereyet

I have experienced that and watched friends go through it all the time. Thanks for the blog Banks. Cannot wait to read more.

JennLifts

oh heavens! Is this inspired by me?! eek!

SHBoss1673

Awesome, Banks! Thank you for starting a blog, I for one will be reading it religously. I can't imagine what possessed you to choose that for an initial topic

I can almost forgive you for the whole Red Sox thing. If you become a Cubs fan, I may vote for you for President!

Keep up the great work and thank you for helping to enlighten the rest of us.

Darren

LOL. Cubs huh? I do LOVE Chi-town, I've only been there once, but fell in love immediately. I'll never leave my Red Sox, but how about if I make them my number 2 team? Heck it's not as if we Sox fans can't understand what you cubbie lovers are going through, after 86 years, and Buckner, I feel the pain.

SHBoss1673

oh heavens! Is this inspired by me?! eek!

I know it may seem like I'm reacting to recent posts Jenn, but i'm not. I actually did a lot of research into underfeeding about 3 months ago, and while I've continually been researching starvation mode for over 4 years now, this particular aspect of it prompted me to actually try a modified 2 day fast and refeeding program which is very difficult, and very advanced, but DID work quite well. The recent posts were my motivation to get off my butt and finish doing the blog, but I had the idea a long time ago.

SHBoss1673

FYI, need some feedback guys, my wife says the blog is still to advanced and technical. Even though I tried to tone it down as much as possible. What do you guys think, do I need to do more layman's translation? I don't want to dumb it down so far that it loses it's true meaning, but I also don't want it so technically difficult that nobody understands it? I'm thinking of posting 2 entries for each blog, 1 for the true technical aspects, and one that's a translation to laymans terms that may lose some technical content but will be easier to read.

thoughts?

robin52077

FYI, need some feedback guys, my wife says the blog is still to advanced and technical. Even though I tried to tone it down as much as possible. What do you guys think, do I need to do more layman's translation? I don't want to dumb it down so far that it loses it's true meaning, but I also don't want it so technically difficult that nobody understands it? I'm thinking of posting 2 entries for each blog, 1 for the true technical aspects, and one that's a translation to laymans terms that may lose some technical content but will be easier to read.

thoughts?

That's an awesome idea.
I personally understood it fine, BUT I already knew all that, so that could be why. For someone who didn't know that info, it probably is confusing/boring and they might not take the needed info out of it and look at it as a bunch of blah blah blah medical terms.

Jenn - HA you're so cute! This issue has been a topic of heated discussion long before you came around and will be a hot topic for a long time to come. So, even though you don't eat enough I don't think he was referring to you, sweetie!

SHBoss1673

FYI, I updated it to add a "layman's" terms section at the bottom. Let me know if this helps.

coachdoubled

I think that you may be able to tone it down some - my college minor was in physiology, so I know enough to be dangerous, but I can see that it may be over the head of some people. Of course, that is why many peopel are finding the need to use this site in the first place. They don't understand what is going on in their own body.

Just remember, the Sox got Buckner from the Cubs. He was just channelling his inner Cub. I do like the Red Sox though - anyone who can consistently beat the Yankees is high on my list.

robin52077

2 things I have to say:

1. The Red Sox are the best! (Just had to throw in my 2 cents on the "topic within a topic")
2. The addition to the blog looks good to me!
If I were learning this for the first time, what I would have taken away from it is this: starvation mode is real, but the term is used to often and inappropriately sometimes. You will not be in starvation mode if you fast for a day, or go 1 or 2 days without hitting your goal. However, consistently undereating for days or weeks at a time can be very bad and can affect your health and metabolism.

Lisa__Michelle

So basically you are saying that anybody using the MFP website for more than a few days is in long term fasting (b/c MFP gives us a deficit in calories of 500-1000 to make us lose weight). So basically starvation is real for people like us who are already in a calorie deficit.

However, I take it by what I read, that someone who is eating at maintenence levels (not getting any calorie deficit to lose weight) would not enter starvation mode by eating to few calories 1 or 2 days.

immacookie

Tagging to read later

SHBoss1673

So basically you are saying that anybody using the MFP website for more than a few days is in long term fasting (b/c MFP gives us a deficit in calories of 500-1000 to make us lose weight). So basically starvation is real for people like us who are already in a calorie deficit.

However, I take it by what I read, that someone who is eating at maintenence levels (not getting any calorie deficit to lose weight) would not enter starvation mode by eating to few calories 1 or 2 days.

nope that's not what it said. I'll explain. If you look closely at the technical side, it talks about the point at which glycogen is depleted from the body. This doesn't necessarily happen during a calorie deficit, it happens when the energy available to your body cannot match the calories your body needs to perform what ever work it needs to do today. This boils down to food you eat, plus glycogen stores, plus triglycerides, plus adipose (body) fat. When those things all together can't meet your calorie needs, then the "clock" starts ticking for long term fasting and "starvation mode". When you run out of glycogen, that's when the body hits the alarm bells and starts altering how hormone levels are set.

In simpler terms it means that you have to think about more than just the food you are eating. You have to think about the food you are eating, plus how much fat you have, which dictates how big your deficit can be, it also means you have to think about how athletic or strong you are because the more muscle you have, the more glycogen you have at muscle sites. It also has to do with how active you are on a daily basis, because the higher your activity level, the higher your metabolic rate, the more calories you burn daily.

Remember, MFP doesn't set a specific deficit, YOU set the deficit by telling MFP how many lbs per week you wish to lose. If you want to lose 1/2 lb a week, that would be 250 calories, 1 lb per week would be 500, 1.5 lbs would be 750...etc. and this is just using the wizard, you can manually set it for what ever you like by just choosing custom when you set your goals.

It's one of the things I harp on with people. If you look at my questions for people when they ask me about their goals, I always make sure they're setting their goals correctly, I.E. someone looking to lose 20 lbs shouldn't have a 2 lb per week weight loss goal. THIS is why I tell people "your body just can't support it".

See this post I wrote a while ago, it helps people choose the right goal for their situation, it's not a perfect guide, but it's a good start.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/61706-guide-to-calorie-deficits

SHBoss1673

one side note to what I just posted above.

People may ask (at least I thought about this as I re-read it), so if the body goes bezerk when you are depleted of glycogen, why doesn't this happen during a long, intense cardio session when you completely deplete glycogen?

Well, that's a great question Steve! And here's the answer.

When you are feeding yourself, your body has food constantly in the "chamber" or your stomach or intestines. If not there, it's in the process of becoming something else in the liver or bloodstream. So what happens is when you start to get low on glycogen, the body starts replacing that glycogen. Thus the hormone response is muted or blunted all together. That's also why they (we, everyone who knows about this stuff) always talks about re-feeding after a long intense session. Either with some kind of energy drink (also this helps with electrolyte deficiencies that can occur from hydration changes) or a banana or orange, or something else high in in the Glucose Index. If you ever go to a 10K race or a marathon, you'll sometimes notice that there's fruit hanging around at the finish line. That's so that you replenish your blood sugar, which is the fastest way to recover glycogen stores. Sugar from fruits and drinks have a timeline of minutes to the path of glucose and muscles, where other things like maybe a piece of whole wheat bread is more like tens of minutes. I guess, if you could stomach it, a piece of white bread would do in a pinch, but then you don't get any electrolytes with it, thus the fruit and things like Gatorade or Powerade.

valeriebpdx

oh, god, that was so good. I wish everyone could read it and believe it. I am getting so tired of seeing posts from people who got all their "info" about starvation/ketosis/fool method of the week from a pamphlet or a website selling that particular method, and having to consider every time whether it's worth it to post and get in another fight with people who want there to be an easy answer. I appreciate that you continue to try to educate. BTW, I loved the more technical version, but I am in nursing school so keep collecting opinions from actual laypeople.

SHBoss1673

oh, god, that was so good. I wish everyone could read it and believe it. I am getting so tired of seeing posts from people who got all their "info" about starvation/ketosis/fool method of the week from a pamphlet or a website selling that particular method, and having to consider every time whether it's worth it to post and get in another fight with people who want there to be an easy answer. I appreciate that you continue to try to educate. BTW, I loved the more technical version, but I am in nursing school so keep collecting opinions from actual laypeople.

why thank you Valerie. I endeavor to fight the good fight and help people understand and respect their bodies. Eventually, it'll all come out in the wash, but as of right now, there's so much mis-information out there, and conflicting theories, that we just need to hammer away at the half-truths and misguided concepts of how the body uses energy. And hope for the best.

Purplebunnysarah

I've totally gone and bookmarked your blog. Gotta say, I enjoyed the technical explanation as well as the simplified version. I hope you continue to include both the more technical discussion as well as the simplified! (Then again, I'm a science nerd and a scientist by profession.)

ladyhawk00

Bump to read later

Mollydolly10

Bump! I always love your researched insights!! :-)

amicklin

Bump to read tomorrow.

SHBoss1673

new post added. On the Psychological aspects of obesity.

ashleyplus3

Bump

SHBoss1673

bump

benitocereno

Awesome info as always SHBoss. I'll never understand why people struggle with eating 1200-1500 calories a day, short of having an eating disorder. If you are currently overweight, obese, etc, you have had no problem eating well past that amount in the past - nothing has changed. Diet is about moderation, not a knee-jerk reaction to your current state. Cutting additional calories has no effect on accelerated fat loss (quite the opposite), so it's always so odd to see people cut cut cut because they want some instant fix to being overweight.

NotAllWhoWanderAreLost

bump!

SHBoss1673

Awesome info as always SHBoss. I'll never understand why people struggle with eating 1200-1500 calories a day, short of having an eating disorder. If you are currently overweight, obese, etc, you have had no problem eating well past that amount in the past - nothing has changed. Diet is about moderation, not a knee-jerk reaction to your current state. Cutting additional calories has no effect on accelerated fat loss (quite the opposite), so it's always so odd to see people cut cut cut because they want some instant fix to being overweight.

before I was at maintenance, I would struggle sometimes. Granted my calories were 2200 and not 1500, but I'm a big guy so... when I added 400 calories of exercise that would bring me to 2600, and I had a hard time for a while justifying that in my brain. I got there, but I can understand why people can balk at eating them, I would hope though, that we post enough meaningful and factual information to override these irrational fears.

ladyhawk00

Awesome info as always SHBoss. I'll never understand why people struggle with eating 1200-1500 calories a day, short of having an eating disorder. If you are currently overweight, obese, etc, you have had no problem eating well past that amount in the past - nothing has changed. Diet is about moderation, not a knee-jerk reaction to your current state. Cutting additional calories has no effect on accelerated fat loss (quite the opposite), so it's always so odd to see people cut cut cut because they want some instant fix to being overweight.

I think for a lot of people, the problem is in where the food was coming from. It's pretty easy to get to 2500 cals on junk - it's not that much volume, especially if a lot comes from soda or empty cals. And if it's a lot of sugar, that can make you hungrier and not feel full for long - so it's easy to eat again soon. But once you change the source of the cals to nutrient dense foods, it takes a lot more volume to get to the same amount of cals. And the nutrient dense foods make you feel full longer, so you don't get hungry as quickly.

And, the media/advertising/diet companies have screwed up the public thinking on weight loss. We've been told for years that quick fixes work (especially if there's a product to buy) and that it's desirable to lose weight quickly (Biggest Loser). So people who have little diet/fitness knowledge believe what they see/hear. It's hard to change that paradigm after so long.

benitocereno

Completely agree. I just wish people would realize, especially with a tool like this, that you don't need to eat "diet" food to "diet!" If you can't reach your calories with all the low-fat stuff you're eating just swap some of the food around, that's the beauty of this tool . You don't have to eat more to get more calories, you just have to eat different.

One great tip that I know lifters use is to mix something like olive oil into their whey protein shakes. One or two tablespoons of olive oil to a whey shake doesn't really change the taste and easily adds 120-240 calories (in addition to whey's ~120), which for most people would counter those workout losses while providing lots of valuable protein and healthy fats.