For Those Considering the Paleo Diet

JohnnyNull

Once again proof that it's just plain silly:

http://www.diet-blog.com/11/whole_grains_lead_to_longer_life_and_less_disease.php

thelassiemickyjames

nice post!

hugh_jass

This study is a little misleading... like most studies involving whole grain. It shouldn't be that whole grain will help you live longer but rather that whole grain is better than refined grain. If you eat white bread and fruit loops every day and switch to Kashi and whole grain bread then yes you will live longer as a result. If you eat NO grains and start eating whole grain will the same thing happen? We don't know because all studies involving whole grain are based on replacing refined grain.

I'm still a skeptic on the paleo diet but I wouldn't point to this study to dismiss it.

I know pointing to a pro-paleo website to counter this article is probably the wrong way to go but the research seems solid.. plus the original source is behind a pay wall:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-whole-grain-fiber-help-you-live-longer/#more-19756

"Eating more whole grains (and grain fiber) inevitably goes hand-in-hand with eating fewer refined grains. And this is precisely what makes grain studies so squirmy and misleading: Measuring the effects of whole grains indirectly captures the effects of refined grains, too, and they’re hard to untangle."

Pange33

I personally think it's a weird diet. But I eat a vegan diet, so what do I know? I just can't imagine quinoa NOT being good for you! :P

XFitMojoMom

quinoa is a seed and not a grain.

JohnnyNull

@thelassiemicky: Thanks!

@hugh_jass: You clearly did not read the article.

@Pange33: Totally. Oatmeal and lentils are the top two things for your heart. But banned from Paleo diets. Says a lot.

@XFitMojoMom: Quite correct.

Pange33

quinoa is a seed and not a grain.

Good point! I wonder then, why my mother gave me all she had left, after telling me she was on this diet. So can Paleo's eat quinoa?
And after some research, here's the answer:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/278303-quinoa-paleo-diet/

Russellb97

Paleo works, atkins works, Spike Diet works, they all work if they restrict calories. The key is finding out which plan you can carry over to a lifestyle. Otherwise once you go off said diet you'll gain weight back.

sweet_lotus

I'm unclear about this - isn't the paleo diet a hunter-gatherer type diet, meaning things people ate before agriculture? Meat, fish, nuts and fruit? So no vegetables, beans, or grains, right? Or is it something different?

Pange33

I'm unclear about this - isn't the paleo diet a hunter-gatherer type diet, meaning things people ate before agriculture? Meat, fish, nuts and fruit? So no vegetables, beans, or grains, right? Or is it something different?

Here's a site that explains it all pretty well:
http://altmed.creighton.edu/paleodiet/Foodlist.html

The tabs to the left of this page give you the theory of it and such. Hope that helps

XFitMojoMom

Under the 80-20 principle, yes Primal's can eat Quinoa... since it's a seed, similar to nuts. Some very strict Primals will not touch it however.
I'm not strict, but I do watch where my carbs hail from. No grains, slightly intolerant so I bloat up and look about 6 months pregnant. But honestly I don't miss them... I find when I do allow wheat, I tend to spike and get ravenous and crave sugar and alcohol. In fact on a bender right now - emotional drinking.:sad:

JohnnyNull

The other point is that Paleos disagree on what's bad. Some drink milk, some don't. Some eat beans, some don't. Could be the MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong Diet.

XFitMojoMom

without being facetious - I think most diets are as such, so don't just point out one plan. People need to take the whole 'diet plan" less literally and use it as a principle.

Fun & educational reading:
http://graemethomasonline.com/carbohydrate-restriction-the-numbers-dont-lie/
http://graemethomasonline.com/low-carb-or-low-fat-let-science-settle-the-debate/
http://graemethomasonline.com/dumb-things-smart-people-do/

and my favorites:
http://graemethomasonline.com/8-wildly-overrated-health-foods/
http://graemethomasonline.com/is-yoga-making-you-soft/

kdiamond

People need to take the whole 'diet plan" less literally and use it as a principle.

Completely agree!!! While I follow Paleo MOSTLY, I do it because I like eating natural, unprocessed foods, and I do find better performance eating this way...that being said it isn't the END ALL and BEST diet - a good diet is one that works for you and is a lifestyle, not how you associate yourself!

freerange

The other point is that Paleos disagree on what's bad. Some drink milk, some don't. Some eat beans, some don't. Could be the MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong Diet.

And what diet plan do you follow?

It’s easy to show study after study that supports your theory, all you have to do is ignore that data that doesn’t support it.

You mentioned that Hugh_jass didn’t read the article, you obviously didn’t read the link he posted debunking that grade school-ish study you champion as your end all proof.

It is clear from this and past post you have an ax to grind with paleo/primal “diets”. I put diet in quotes because it’s not really a diet in the conventional wisdom sort of way, it’s more of a natural way of eating, a (and THE) way humans are suppose to eat. As for disagreeing on milk and beans, that is just a degree of adherence, most primal advocates will tell you milk or beans is not ideal for the body, but as long as you know the reasons (just as with grains) why they are not ideal, you can make an informed decision as to how/when, and how much of these non-ideal foods you want/can eat.

In case you didn’t see it above, tell us all here, what diet plan do you follow?

ceebs9

I love Paleo. I've had great results and I feel better than I have in all of my 45 years. That's all the proof I need. But I would never try to talk anyone in to it. Not my style.

MissKim

You should never bash anything that you don't know about. and for every article of "proof" for one thing, there's ten more for the opposing view. Why waste our time? Really? Just co-exist happily and focus on what works for you to be healthy and happy! Sounds like you just wanted to start drama.

hugh_jass

"@hugh_jass: You clearly did not read the article. "

How so? I read the article and I agreed with it's premise. It's just misleading because it credits whole grains as the only reason people live longer when there could be many other factors. I would love to see a study that compares people who eat whole grain to people who don't eat grain at all. Like I said, I'm still skeptical about the paleo diet so a study like that would definitely be very helpful.

@Russellb97 "Paleo works, atkins works, Spike Diet works, they all work if they restrict calories. The key is finding out which plan you can carry over to a lifestyle. Otherwise once you go off said diet you'll gain weight back."

I'm not an expert in Paleo but the diet is not about restricting calories. It's more about eat what you want but stay away from grains, legumes and processed foods (and possibly dairy depending on what you believe). Of course people mention that if you want to use paleo to lose weight then you should also restrict your carbs.

Most paleo people follow an 80/20 ratio. Try to eat paleo 80% of the time and allow 20% for those times when you want a grain product or your somewhere that doesn't allow you to follow your diet (guest in someone's home, at a restaurant). It is a pretty restrictive diet if you follow it to the T, but if you make some allowances it's not too bad. I mostly enjoy eating whole foods, I don't think you can go wrong doing that.

freerange

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=3&hp

"Fat Albert, one of her monkeys who she said was at one time the world’s heaviest rhesus, at 70 pounds, ate “nothing but an American Heart Association-recommended diet,” she said."

Let that sink in, the worlds heaviest Rhesus monkey was on a Strict “American Heart Association” diet. This did not come from some Paleo/Primal advocate, this is from Dr. Hansen.

freerange

I'm unclear about this - isn't the paleo diet a hunter-gatherer type diet, meaning things people ate before agriculture? Meat, fish, nuts and fruit? So no vegetables, beans, or grains, right? Or is it something different?

I understand that veggies as grown today might not look the same as in Paleo times, but yes veggies are an important part of Paleo diet.

freerange

Paleo works, atkins works, Spike Diet works, they all work if they restrict calories. The key is finding out which plan you can carry over to a lifestyle. Otherwise once you go off said diet you'll gain weight back.

I understand what you are saying and will assume you meant to add “as long as it’s healthy” because after all you can lose weight by eating nothing but Twinkies as long as the calories in is less than the calories out,,,, right? I will also assume you were talking only about losing weight when you said any diet will work. But for me the weight loss is secondary to the health benefits of a healthy diet.

Grokette

The other point is that Paleos disagree on what's bad. Some drink milk, some don't. Some eat beans, some don't. Could be the MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong Diet.

We are all different bio-individually, so it makes sense that there are going to be some differences.

Me, I won't touch dairy products unless it is raw dairy - straight from the cow. So we have a local Amish farmer who makes raw cheese, raw yogurt, raw roll butter and delivers raw milk to us.

I did eat some brown rice and black beans Sunday evening with a roast that I had made in the crock pot and also made a huge pot of sauteed collard greens. The brown rice and beans still have me bloated 2 days later, so I won't be touching them anymore.

Anyone that believes that we are not healthy eating natural fats, moderate amounts of protein and enormous amounts of veggies with some fruit and nuts scattered in there is completely off their rocker.

Contrary to what many believe - we don't need grains to survive and be healthy. For a LOT of people grains don't fit into the "everything in moderation" concept.

For those of you that believe that we should shop the outer aisles of the store, guess what????? Nothing that contains grains is found in that part of the store............ Hmmmmm, interesting and I bet I have you thinking. Anything that is in the inner aisles is processed to some degree...........most of it more processed than not and that includes the beloved grains (for most).

The USDA and farming councils, companies like Monsanto and Cargill want you to believe that we must have grains to be healthy and it is all a big hoax.

From the mouth of Dr. Al Sears: http://www.alsearsmd.com/the-whole-grain-hoax/

Dear Health Conscious Reader,




“Whole grains are your best bet,” declares the Harvard School of Public Health website. Don’t be afraid of carbs from whole grains. They’re good for you, the site says.

The modern health industry and big business do a lot of advertising, advising and talking about how good for you whole grains are. And now everyone seems to have fallen for the whole-grain lie. Even the smart people at Harvard.

What they should be warning you about are the whole grains.

The whole idea behind eating a grain “whole” is this: Your body breaks down dietary starch – carbohydrates – into glucose, spiking your blood sugar. If a grain is left whole, you won’t break it down as fast, and it won’t raise your blood sugar.

It sounds like a nice theory, but it doesn’t work in the real world.

Let me show you what I mean.

Pure glucose has a glycemic index rating of 100.

The glycemic index measures how quickly food breaks down into glucose in your bloodstream. And the higher a food’s rating is on the glycemic index, the more it raises your blood-sugar level.

Here are the glycemic index ratings for one serving of some common whole-grain breads:

Whole grain bread (generic) – 51
Whole barley kernel bread – 55
Cracked wheat kernel bread – 58
Whole rye kernel bread – 66
Oat bran bread – 68

Here are the glycemic index ratings for a serving of some common snacks:

Potato chips – 54
Snickers candy bar – 55
Coca Cola – 55
Ice cream – 61
Corn chips – 63

I’m not showing you this to advise you to replace your whole grains with junk food.

I’m saying whole grains ARE junk food … at least when it comes to the glycemic index.

Even table sugar is only 61 on the glycemic index.

The bottom line here is that big business wants you to keep eating grains. They’re cheap to produce and companies make a fortune selling grain for all those rolls, boxes of cereal and loaves of bread.

None of them are natural in that you could not have eaten these processed foods in your native environment. And none of them are “healthy.”

Real health foods are the ones you were designed to eat in your native environment: muscle and organ meat from animals and fish, and every kind of fruit, vegetable and nut.

If it comes packaged in a cardboard box, plastic bag, foil wrapper or Styrofoam container, be careful of what’s in there.

Here are five tips for shopping at the grocery store, so you can stay away from fake “health” food like whole grains:

1. It’s a good idea to stick to the outermost aisles of the grocery store, and don’t eat the processed stuff they sell in the middle aisles. These are loaded with carbs, artificial sweeteners and preservatives.

2. Choose good quality protein – it’s “guilt-free” food. It won’t raise your blood sugar. Grass-fed beef, free-range poultry, cage-free eggs, and wild salmon are all good choices. And except for cashews, which have a 22 on the glycemic index, all nuts have a glycemic index of zero.

3. Choose vegetables low on the glycemic index. Those that grow above ground are good choices – cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, mushrooms, green beans, leafy green vegetables and tomatoes. Potatoes, which grow below ground, are 104 on the glycemic index.

4. Eat fruits such as berries and those you can eat with the skin on. Cherries, plums, peaches, strawberries and grapes, for example. Also, skip dried fruit and fruit juices (they have added sugar).

To Your Good Health,



Al Sears, MD

lilmissy2

This study is a little misleading... like most studies involving whole grain. It shouldn't be that whole grain will help you live longer but rather that whole grain is better than refined grain. If you eat white bread and fruit loops every day and switch to Kashi and whole grain bread then yes you will live longer as a result. If you eat NO grains and start eating whole grain will the same thing happen? We don't know because all studies involving whole grain are based on replacing refined grain.

I'm still a skeptic on the paleo diet but I wouldn't point to this study to dismiss it.

I know pointing to a pro-paleo website to counter this article is probably the wrong way to go but the research seems solid.. plus the original source is behind a pay wall:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-whole-grain-fiber-help-you-live-longer/#more-19756

"Eating more whole grains (and grain fiber) inevitably goes hand-in-hand with eating fewer refined grains. And this is precisely what makes grain studies so squirmy and misleading: Measuring the effects of whole grains indirectly captures the effects of refined grains, too, and they’re hard to untangle."

I agree with this, to an extent. To be fair though, I think the reason that quality research comparing the 2 has not been done is because it would never be approved by an ethics committee. By which I mean that the reliable evidence we have (which is certainly not complete, as with any nutrition research since it is such a difficult area to control) suggests that such a high protein approach is potentially dangerous. It is a shame though, it would be interesting to have some of these things nutted out in a more systematic way but I guess research subjects don't like to read 'we take no responsibility if you happen to die following our plan' in the fine print.

freerange

I assume you meant high % of protein. Here are the facts, only those needing to lose a good amount weight are advised to restrict carbs to below 50g a day, and then only for a short duration. Most are advised (and I use that term loosely) to get around 50-100 for easy constant weight loss. Hardly a very low carb diet. Those that are just maintaining weight can have between 100-150. As for protein the norm is around 1g per lean body weight, hardly and high (dangerous level) protein diet.

The kicker, the one most haters avoid talking about is, it’s not the carbs, it’s the kind of carbs, that make a difference. Get your carbs from vegetables, some fruit, nuts and seeds. Eat plenty of natural, unprocessed, fats, RE-teach your body to burn fat for energy instead of carbs the way it was designed to. Your body will thank you, your health will thank you, and your brain will thank you.

Grokette

I assume you meant high % of protein. Here are the facts, only those needing to lose a good amount weight are advised to restrict carbs to below 50g a day, and then only for a short duration. Most are advised (and I use that term loosely) to get around 50-100 for easy constant weight loss. Hardly a very low carb diet. Those that are just maintaining weight can have between 100-150. As for protein the norm is around 1g per lean body weight, hardly and high (dangerous level) protein diet.

The kicker, the one most haters avoid talking about is, it’s not the carbs, it’s the kind of carbs, that make a difference. Get your carbs from vegetables, some fruit, nuts and seeds. Eat plenty of natural, unprocessed, fats, RE-teach your body to burn fat for energy instead of carbs the way it was designed to. Your body will thank you, your health will thank you, and your brain will thank you.

Amen!!!

lilmissy2

I think you are confused by what I said. I did not say it was dangerous. I said there is not enough evidence for people on ethics committees to determine the approach as generally safe and there is certainly a lot of evidence (which does not use the actual diet or approach) that suggests that it MAY be unsafe. Sure, your diet MAY contain carbs, but in general the diet approach encourages higher protein because of the things that are limited (grains, fruit, dairy). I wasn't criticising the diet - merely pointing out why the obvious gaps in nutrition/health research exist.

Grokette

I think you are confused by what I said. I did not say it was dangerous. I said there is not enough evidence for people on ethics committees to determine the approach as generally safe and there is certainly a lot of evidence (which does not use the actual diet or approach) that suggests that it MAY be unsafe. Sure, your diet MAY contain carbs, but in general the diet approach encourages higher protein because of the things that are limited (grains, fruit, dairy). I wasn't criticising the diet - merely pointing out why the obvious gaps in nutrition/health research exist.

Actually fat intake should be higher than protein. Paleo is not high protein and should not be. It should be high fat, moderate protein and low carb, especially when wanting to lose weight.

Maintaining of course the fat intake will go down a bit, protein and carb counts will raise, but all will still be in balance.

freerange

What happened to JohnnyNULL, fitting name, typical hater, hit and run, no substance.

Grokette

What happened to JohnnyNULL, fitting name, typical hater, hit and run, no substance.

That is so typical for people like this to post a topic and then run when people start discussing the "real" and not the media hype.

Russellb97

This study is a little misleading... like most studies involving whole grain. It shouldn't be that whole grain will help you live longer but rather that whole grain is better than refined grain. If you eat white bread and fruit loops every day and switch to Kashi and whole grain bread then yes you will live longer as a result. If you eat NO grains and start eating whole grain will the same thing happen? We don't know because all studies involving whole grain are based on replacing refined grain.

I'm still a skeptic on the paleo diet but I wouldn't point to this study to dismiss it.

I know pointing to a pro-paleo website to counter this article is probably the wrong way to go but the research seems solid.. plus the original source is behind a pay wall:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-whole-grain-fiber-help-you-live-longer/#more-19756

"Eating more whole grains (and grain fiber) inevitably goes hand-in-hand with eating fewer refined grains. And this is precisely what makes grain studies so squirmy and misleading: Measuring the effects of whole grains indirectly captures the effects of refined grains, too, and they’re hard to untangle."

I agree with this, to an extent. To be fair though, I think the reason that quality research comparing the 2 has not been done is because it would never be approved by an ethics committee. By which I mean that the reliable evidence we have (which is certainly not complete, as with any nutrition research since it is such a difficult area to control) suggests that such a high protein approach is potentially dangerous. It is a shame though, it would be interesting to have some of these things nutted out in a more systematic way but I guess research subjects don't like to read 'we take no responsibility if you happen to die following our plan' in the fine print.

Hold on, there's that myth again. High protein diets are NOT dangerous. There is not one single study that ever concluded that a high protein diet is dangerous for healthy individuals. What the studies state is that if someone has kidney disease they should limit protein, but high protein does not damage healthy kidneys.

It's like this,
Running is a good healthy exercise, but it's not safe with certain heart defects. Running doesn't cause the heart defects, but it should be avoided if you have them.

I've been having an average of 250 grams of protein a day for several years and I feel awesome.

XFitMojoMom

Hold on, there's that myth again. High protein diets are NOT dangerous. There is not one single study that ever concluded that a high protein diet is dangerous for healthy individuals. What the studies state is that if someone has kidney disease they should limit protein, but high protein does not damage healthy kidneys.

It's like this,
Running is a good healthy exercise, but it's not safe with certain heart defects. Running doesn't cause the heart defects, but it should be avoided if you have them.

I've been having an average of 250 grams of protein a day for several years and I feel awesome.

Amen!
And try explaining that to uneducated physicians and so called nutritionists. I'll be ready with the scientific evidence at my next physical! I got read the riot act!