Toning while trying to lose weight is harmful?

gp79

What a sweet deal...Imagine having a layer of muscle, fat, muscle, fat, muscle, fat....You'd be a freak!

mideon_696

man the things people beleive without question is amazing...

good job on getting on here to clarify!

next time they tell you some sort of fitness "factoid", question it immediately, lol. and get them to proove it...haha

ivyjbres

I finally convinced my coworkers to try zumba and they loved it......but they don't want to do zumba toning since "its bad to build muscle over fat'? I never heard of this. It seems illogical since if you are doing cardio you are going to end up building some muscle. However, one of them states that is what their track coach had taught them.

Anyway, anyone never heard of this? Can building muscle over fat be bad?

lol. Its bad if you're a high school track athlete, they're supposed to be scrawny, barely muscled and aerodynamic. But your body doesn't work the way it did when you were 15, so now, you need to build muscle, in the long run, it will be better for your health.

SHBoss1673

I think I understand what your coworker is saying.

If you're simply trying to make the scale move, you don't want to strength train, you simply want to do cardio and create a caloric deficit. Building muscle puts weight on (when comparing the same volume of fat and muscle, the muscle outweighs the fat almost 2:1)

I just finished a contest where the winner is determined by biggest percentage of bodyweight lost. I did absolutely zero weight training, only cardio, and managed to lose 21% of my starting body weight during the contest period (60% from fat, the other 40% was lean tissue). I'm now switching to adding strength training and focusing solely on reducing my body fat percentage. So while the scale may not move, as long as body fat percentage drops I'll be happy.

ACK!!! you lost 40% lean tissue? That's far higher than expected for healthy weight loss. It should be around 10 to 15%! That right there should tell you that doing this with to large of a deficit and with no weight training is a bad idea. Think of how much better you'd be feeling if you lost 85% of it from fat and only 15% from muscle.

FYI when you're in a caloric deficit (losing weight), you can't really build muscle anyway. You can maintain, and in some very rare instances build a very small amount of muscle for very short, and highly specific times, and you can activate existing dormant muscle fibers, but you can't build new muscle.

lowpost42

I think I understand what your coworker is saying.

If you're simply trying to make the scale move, you don't want to strength train, you simply want to do cardio and create a caloric deficit. Building muscle puts weight on (when comparing the same volume of fat and muscle, the muscle outweighs the fat almost 2:1)

I just finished a contest where the winner is determined by biggest percentage of bodyweight lost. I did absolutely zero weight training, only cardio, and managed to lose 21% of my starting body weight during the contest period (60% from fat, the other 40% was lean tissue). I'm now switching to adding strength training and focusing solely on reducing my body fat percentage. So while the scale may not move, as long as body fat percentage drops I'll be happy.

ACK!!! you lost 40% lean tissue? That's far higher than expected for healthy weight loss. It should be around 10 to 15%! That right there should tell you that doing this with to large of a deficit and with no weight training is a bad idea. Think of how much better you'd be feeling if you lost 85% of it from fat and only 15% from muscle.

FYI when you're in a caloric deficit (losing weight), you can't really build muscle anyway. You can maintain, and in some very rare instances build a very small amount of muscle for very short, and highly specific times, and you can activate existing dormant muscle fibers, but you can't build new muscle.

Brutal, I know. Of my 69 lbs lost, 41 was fat. I know it's not even close to ideal nor healthy; but the whole reason I dropped weight was to win a "biggest loser" style contest (I should know how I placed in a day or two).

If all you want to do is move the scale the most in a short amount of time, weight training is going to be counter-productive. If you want to lose fat, weight train! (My regimen is now cardio and weight training while eating enough to support muscle growth!)

SHBoss1673

Brutal, I know. Of my 69 lbs lost, 41 was fat. I know it's not even close to ideal nor healthy; but the whole reason I dropped weight was to win a "biggest loser" style contest (I should know how I placed in a day or two).

If all you want to do is move the scale the most in a short amount of time, weight training is going to be counter-productive. If you want to lose fat, weight train! (My regimen is now cardio and weight training while eating enough to support muscle growth!)

After 4 plus years on here, there's not a heck of a lot on MFP that makes me super frustrated, but this is one of them. I despise "Biggest Loser" contests, I understand that the idea is to get people thinking about their health and losing weight. But this is NOT how it should be done. this is completely unhealthy and I can't endorse it even a little tiny bit. As a certified personal trainer that puts my heart and soul into trying to teach people how to live healthy and lose fat the correct way on MFP, at my full time job, and as a trainer; this makes me very sad. It feels like a slap in my face when ever I hear one of these things, especially on MFP where the resources and support are right here for the asking.

Now, that said, if the company, or group, or family, or whom ever is holding the contest did it via percentage of body fat lost, and held sessions on how to safely lose weight and proper nutrition, then I'll give it a pass. But even then, making weight loss into a contest with a prize is just not the way I recommend someone think about their body. Weight loss should be a symptom of a life change that moves you toward being healthy and fit, and NOT a way to make money. You can say "I'm doing this for me, the money's just a bonus." all you want, you're attaching a monetary value to weight loss.

I know this sounds harsh, and I'm not directing it at you lowpost, I'm really not, but it's how I feel about these programs, they're just another indicator of how this country thinks about weight. The "I want it all, and I want it now" attitude towards weight loss is very unhealthy and I just can't endorse it.

I understand if you end up hating me after this reply, but I cannot just sit idly by and watch people do these things without at least speaking up.

-Banks

bloodbank

What a sweet deal...Imagine having a layer of muscle, fat, muscle, fat, muscle, fat....You'd be a freak!

Hahahaha...

myofibril

lol. Its bad if you're a high school track athlete, they're supposed to be scrawny, barely muscled and aerodynamic.

Exactly.

If you are a distance track athlete then yeah, building excess muscle over and above that which you need to perform your sport will be counter productive. The more mass you have the harder it is to run long distances efficiently.

Incidentally, cardio will prompt muscle growth but only really in a calorie surplus. It stimulates Type I / slow twitch muscle fibres as opposed to Type II (a) (b) fast twitch muscle fibres which dictate mass / strength etc.

If you are working in a calorie deficit then lots of cardio and no resistance works creates a near perfect catabolic environment where you will begin hemorrhaging lean tissue / muscle. If fat loss / looking good is high up on your list of priorities then this is bad, bad news.

myofibril

I know this sounds harsh, and I'm not directing it at you lowpost, I'm really not, but it's how I feel about these programs, they're just another indicator of how this country thinks about weight. The "I want it all, and I want it now" attitude towards weight loss is very unhealthy and I just can't endorse it.

That's not harsh in my opinion. It's exactly right.

Seriously, if someone gave me a program where I ended up losing that amount of lean I would find them and kick their *kitten*. Ok, some is almost inevitable that that much? It's just crazy. Ok, it's not irreversible in many cases but is it responsible? Hell no.

lowpost42

Brutal, I know. Of my 69 lbs lost, 41 was fat. I know it's not even close to ideal nor healthy; but the whole reason I dropped weight was to win a "biggest loser" style contest (I should know how I placed in a day or two).

If all you want to do is move the scale the most in a short amount of time, weight training is going to be counter-productive. If you want to lose fat, weight train! (My regimen is now cardio and weight training while eating enough to support muscle growth!)

After 4 plus years on here, there's not a heck of a lot on MFP that makes me super frustrated, but this is one of them. I despise "Biggest Loser" contests, I understand that the idea is to get people thinking about their health and losing weight. But this is NOT how it should be done. this is completely unhealthy and I can't endorse it even a little tiny bit. As a certified personal trainer that puts my heart and soul into trying to teach people how to live healthy and lose fat the correct way on MFP, at my full time job, and as a trainer; this makes me very sad. It feels like a slap in my face when ever I hear one of these things, especially on MFP where the resources and support are right here for the asking.

Now, that said, if the company, or group, or family, or whom ever is holding the contest did it via percentage of body fat lost, and held sessions on how to safely lose weight and proper nutrition, then I'll give it a pass. But even then, making weight loss into a contest with a prize is just not the way I recommend someone think about their body. Weight loss should be a symptom of a life change that moves you toward being healthy and fit, and NOT a way to make money. You can say "I'm doing this for me, the money's just a bonus." all you want, you're attaching a monetary value to weight loss.

I know this sounds harsh, and I'm not directing it at you lowpost, I'm really not, but it's how I feel about these programs, they're just another indicator of how this country thinks about weight. The "I want it all, and I want it now" attitude towards weight loss is very unhealthy and I just can't endorse it.

I understand if you end up hating me after this reply, but I cannot just sit idly by and watch people do these things without at least speaking up.

-Banks

Hey Banks, we're cool.

The very first thing I tell people is that yes, I lost a ton, yes, I lost it fast, NO it wasn't healthy. For me, it was the kick-start I needed - I really think that if I didn't enter, I'd still be 320 (it was the whole idea of not donating my entry fee that got me down the stairs and on the bike on day 3. Then it was 50 days in a row with the cardio.

I agree that the method I employed was far from ideal and I have absolutely no desire to continue employing it for the next 50 pounds. "Crash diet" is about as accurate a description as it gets. And I agree - better a contest where overall body fat percentage is lost - safer and saner (and I still would have liked my chances).

@msf74 (and everyone else, I suppose): I don't recommend what I did. Do I feel better? Yep. I've dropped a pair of 35 lb plates off my *kitten* and my knees and hips are very grateful. Do I have more energy? Some. But calorie restricted diets rob you of some energy. Do I realise I've got some work to do - to put lean mass back on? Oh yes.

Now, if I can trust my numbers; I'm currently at 180lbs of non-fat mass on a 6'1" frame, with 73 lbs of fat. To be honest, I just want to maintain (or slightly increase) my lean mass and get my bodyfat percentage down around 16%, which represents 33 lbs of fat @ 210 lbs.

I hear you guys loud and clear - and have switched gears to burn fat while maintaining lean mass.

ladyhawk00

Brutal, I know. Of my 69 lbs lost, 41 was fat. I know it's not even close to ideal nor healthy; but the whole reason I dropped weight was to win a "biggest loser" style contest (I should know how I placed in a day or two).

If all you want to do is move the scale the most in a short amount of time, weight training is going to be counter-productive. If you want to lose fat, weight train! (My regimen is now cardio and weight training while eating enough to support muscle growth!)

After 4 plus years on here, there's not a heck of a lot on MFP that makes me super frustrated, but this is one of them. I despise "Biggest Loser" contests, I understand that the idea is to get people thinking about their health and losing weight. But this is NOT how it should be done. this is completely unhealthy and I can't endorse it even a little tiny bit. As a certified personal trainer that puts my heart and soul into trying to teach people how to live healthy and lose fat the correct way on MFP, at my full time job, and as a trainer; this makes me very sad. It feels like a slap in my face when ever I hear one of these things, especially on MFP where the resources and support are right here for the asking.

Now, that said, if the company, or group, or family, or whom ever is holding the contest did it via percentage of body fat lost, and held sessions on how to safely lose weight and proper nutrition, then I'll give it a pass. But even then, making weight loss into a contest with a prize is just not the way I recommend someone think about their body. Weight loss should be a symptom of a life change that moves you toward being healthy and fit, and NOT a way to make money. You can say "I'm doing this for me, the money's just a bonus." all you want, you're attaching a monetary value to weight loss.

I know this sounds harsh, and I'm not directing it at you lowpost, I'm really not, but it's how I feel about these programs, they're just another indicator of how this country thinks about weight. The "I want it all, and I want it now" attitude towards weight loss is very unhealthy and I just can't endorse it.

I understand if you end up hating me after this reply, but I cannot just sit idly by and watch people do these things without at least speaking up.

-Banks

Amen. BL contests are driving me crazy. Very rarely does it encourage actual lifestyle changes that become permanent. And they maintain the destructive desire for quick fix, all-or-nothing, unhealthy weight loss. Our attitudes toward food, exercise and health are killing us - and these contests are just another symptom, even if their intent is good. *sigh*

SHBoss1673

Hey Banks, we're cool.

The very first thing I tell people is that yes, I lost a ton, yes, I lost it fast, NO it wasn't healthy. For me, it was the kick-start I needed - I really think that if I didn't enter, I'd still be 320 (it was the whole idea of not donating my entry fee that got me down the stairs and on the bike on day 3. Then it was 50 days in a row with the cardio.

I agree that the method I employed was far from ideal and I have absolutely no desire to continue employing it for the next 50 pounds. "Crash diet" is about as accurate a description as it gets. And I agree - better a contest where overall body fat percentage is lost - safer and saner (and I still would have liked my chances).

@msf74 (and everyone else, I suppose): I don't recommend what I did. Do I feel better? Yep. I've dropped a pair of 35 lb plates off my *kitten* and my knees and hips are very grateful. Do I have more energy? Some. But calorie restricted diets rob you of some energy. Do I realise I've got some work to do - to put lean mass back on? Oh yes.

Now, if I can trust my numbers; I'm currently at 180lbs of non-fat mass on a 6'1" frame, with 73 lbs of fat. To be honest, I just want to maintain (or slightly increase) my lean mass and get my bodyfat percentage down around 16%, which represents 33 lbs of fat @ 210 lbs.

I hear you guys loud and clear - and have switched gears to burn fat while maintaining lean mass.

This is good to hear lowpost. Thank you for understanding my point of view. I'm very pleased to hear that you recognized the dangers inherent in how you lost the weight; and it's encouraging to know that you are now looking to use your new body (however you got there) to make positive changes in your life. To that end, I offer any advice I have to you, you need but to ask. I'm pretty good at some aspects of living healthy, and at others I'm weaker than I'd like (I'm not really a kinesiology expert, but I'm working on it, I have a better understanding than a "layman" but not as good as most really good trainers should have, and I NEED that knowledge.). Anyway, if I can help you, just ask, otherwise, best luck to you in your journey, sounds like you are on the right path.

-Banks

loriefolk

LOL That's just a really bad excuse! (and very NOT true)