STARVATION MODE

kkellam1

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You do seem very confused! So many issues with your post.

-You can`t target your gut for weight loss, you body will chose whatever fat it wants.
-4 days isn`t a significant amount of time to worry about not seeing results.
-o.5lbs incease is normal daily fluctuation
-1200 to 1500 calories is not enough for a big guy, eat more and eat healthy
-re-read the article, it actually tells you to eat more.

The problem with this debate is a probelm called stasis, where either side of the argument are not arguing about the same thing. It is important to define the parameters of what starvation mode is before we can debate it. 1stly nobody claims starvation mode will make you stop losing weight .Often you see a STARVATION MODE MYTH article say, its not true that starvation makes you stop losign weight, we know that, lets not debate it.

As stated in the article starvation mode reduces your metabolism, and we don`t want that, think hungry african children = not healthy. Our goal is to be fit, healthy and live long, you have to eat enough to operate your body properly to acheive those goals.

Another probelm with starvation mode is that you will lose muscle mass along with fat. we want to loose weight in the form of fat, not muscle. You need muscle to stay lean once you reach you target weight.

KKellam1: I don`t know your specifics, but I have a feeling you should target to eat 2200 to 2500 calories (if you exercise 4-5 times a week)
Edited by kevanos on Thu 03/10/11 09:16 AM
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I appreciate your response. My comment about belly fat wasn't so much that I was targeting that, just more that I felt like that was one of the reserves that my body might burn before muscles, etc. In fact, it has to a degree (I have lost 2 inches around the waist). To losing muscle mass, I walk a LOT (3-5 miles a day at work and another 5 or so per day for exercise), so at least the bottom half of my torso gets a workout. I have begin light weights and other movement to try to build some tone in the upper half. Nothing too taxing so far, sonce I began this journey as a pretty overweight, out of shape guy.

To the calories...MFP recommends 2,000 a day for me (before exercise). Siince I made a change in my habits a month ago, 2,000 just seems really high. And not so much just as a number. I eat consistently through the day and make pretty healthy choices (salads, fruit, chicken, turkey, pretzels for snacks). Nothing fried, nothing with sauces, no ice cream or sweets. I am always full, never craving and have more energy now than when I started this quest. So I can't get my head wrapped around raising the calories because it appears that I would either have to eat more - past when I am full - or either eat less healthy foods to get the calorie count up.

That's where my confusion comes from. Logically, I follow the arguement. I just can't see how to implement it without going contrary to what my body seems to be telling me. And without undoing some of the changes that I've made to my eating choices.

forty3fab

Love this!!

colombiana444

...... -__- ....

Just to clarify one thing for the few that are bashing me...
#1 i didn't write the article, it is an article i found that helped my clarify the concept of starvation mode.
#2 The reason i post it is because i know many people that aren't sure about their exercise calories and a lot of people seem to respond that not eating your exercise calories puts you in starvation mode.
#3 yes, there are people that think that starvation mode can happen in a matter of a few days, so if you hear that all the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong in researching and finding more information about the subject, and wanting to share the information with those that are interested.
#4 I found many articles, but chose to put this one because it summarized everything pretty well for people like me that wanted to understand more about it.
#5 Everyone knows that to loose weight, you need a caloric deficit, so when i was told to eat my exercise calories i was confused, and if you plateau, all im saying is that it could be soooo many different factors besides the starvation mode idea.


Some people feel they know a lot about nutrition and exercise, i don't know everything, so i research and this just happens to have helped me clarify a lot, and if it can help others... why not? so i posted the article.

Thanks a good luck to all

SHBoss1673

...... -__- ....

Just to clarify one thing for the few that are bashing me...
#1 i didn't write the article, it is an article i found that helped my clarify the concept of starvation mode.
#2 The reason i post it is because i know many people that aren't sure about their exercise calories and a lot of people seem to respond that not eating your exercise calories puts you in starvation mode.
#3 yes, there are people that think that starvation mode can happen in a matter of a few days, so if you hear that all the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong in researching and finding more information about the subject, and wanting to share the information with those that are interested.
#4 I found many articles, but chose to put this one because it summarized everything pretty well for people like me that wanted to understand more about it.
#5 Everyone knows that to loose weight, you need a caloric deficit, so when i was told to eat my exercise calories i was confused, and if you plateau, all im saying is that it could be soooo many different factors besides the starvation mode idea.


Some people feel they know a lot about nutrition and exercise, i don't know everything, so i research and this just happens to have helped me clarify a lot, and if it can help others... why not? so i posted the article.

Thanks a good luck to all

The problem is colombiana, the article is essentially wrong. I'm not sure if you think I was bashing you, I wasn't if you did think that, but listen, the article is wrong. you don't need to go outside MFP to research starvation mode, there are plenty of posts here that reference real, scientific data and plenty of very sound practical experiences about this very topic.

colombiana444

I love this post, though I am sure that we will see some posters disputing it. And some will have well reasoned responses. Which just adds to my confusion.

I had never heard of starvation mode before I joined MFP. For the last couple of days, it has really gotten into my head and I had just about convinced myself that that's where I was.

I started 30 days ago and for 3 1/2 weeks was losing almost a pound a day. Suddenly it stopped and I haven't lost a thing for about 4 days now. In fact today, the scale went up 1/2 pound. My intake is usually 1200-1500 and net is about 600-1000 calories. Bear in mind that I am a big guy with high body fat. I thought the easy target (belly fat) would continue to burn fast and I wouldn't plateau until much later. Maybe it's naive, but with that kind of results for over 3 weeks, then coming up on a week with no results at all, I was really looking for the answer.

Until I read this post, I was about to start eating some of those calories back, just to see if I could start things rolling again. I tend to agree with the post, but I remain a bit confused about it all.

Just hang in there buddy,
you are doing the right thing for your well being which is all that matters.
Don't assume that you are in starvation mode because it can be a bit scary to think that.
Here are actually a few possibilities i have come accross.

1. Your workout is now a routine. If your body gets used to to the same good old routine you normally do try to rev it up a bit.
"Do it better: Short bursts of intense activity burn more calories—and up to 36% more fat, according to a study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology. Strolling around the mall or a park for an hour works off about 150 calories; pick up the pace 1 minute out of every 5 to burn over one-third more calories. increase your incline in the treadmill, or resistance on the elliptical.

2. Not enough water in your diet. Water is important for so many things as we all know and it even aid in metabolism. Not drinking enough water can result in your body retaining the little water you do consume. I used to hate water before i started getting healthy back in 2006. I barely sweated after a workout back then... now i drink more water and my body sweats more, could be something to look into.

3. Sodium... we all know this one. we need sodium to properly function, but a lot of precessed items are very high in it so read your labels not just for calories but sodium as well.

4. indulging yourself.
When you want something sweet, all those fat-free, sugar-free options seem like a smart choice for weight loss. But researchers at Cornell University found that overweight people who choose low-fat versions of snack foods rather than the regular kinds consume, on average, twice as many calories. "The terms fat-free or sugar-free can create a green light effect, triggering people to eat more," says dietitian Cynthia Sass, MPH, RD. But many fat-free foods have about the same number of calories (or more) as their full-fat counterparts. One variety of oatmeal-raisin cookie has 107 calories and 9 g of sugar, and the
fat-free version of the same brand has 106 calories plus 14 g of sugar.

Do it better: Go for reasonable amounts of the real thing. If you love ice cream, have a small scoop of premium. "You won't stick to a diet that doesn't include your favorites," says David Grotto, RD, author of 101 Foods That Could Change Your Life. Bottom line: Life's too short for forbidden foods

5. Strength training. Building muscle will make the scale not budge or even go up at the beginning even with an impeccable diet and added cardio. It's normal for your body to fluctuate the first month.. but if you keep doing the right thing and dont give up you will start see a change and see that scale slowly go down. Try recording your achievements by measuring yourself rather than weighting in ... as we all know, the scale never tell you the whole story. Also (which i'm doing now) my gym offers body fat testing, which is a great way to really keep track of your fat percentage and know if you really are loosing fat even if the scale doesn't move for weeks.

Hope this helps

colombiana444

...... -__- ....

Just to clarify one thing for the few that are bashing me...
#1 i didn't write the article, it is an article i found that helped my clarify the concept of starvation mode.
#2 The reason i post it is because i know many people that aren't sure about their exercise calories and a lot of people seem to respond that not eating your exercise calories puts you in starvation mode.
#3 yes, there are people that think that starvation mode can happen in a matter of a few days, so if you hear that all the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong in researching and finding more information about the subject, and wanting to share the information with those that are interested.
#4 I found many articles, but chose to put this one because it summarized everything pretty well for people like me that wanted to understand more about it.
#5 Everyone knows that to loose weight, you need a caloric deficit, so when i was told to eat my exercise calories i was confused, and if you plateau, all im saying is that it could be soooo many different factors besides the starvation mode idea.


Some people feel they know a lot about nutrition and exercise, i don't know everything, so i research and this just happens to have helped me clarify a lot, and if it can help others... why not? so i posted the article.

Thanks a good luck to all

The problem is colombiana, the article is essentially wrong. I'm not sure if you think I was bashing you, I wasn't if you did think that, but listen, the article is wrong. you don't need to go outside MFP to research starvation mode, there are plenty of posts here that reference real, scientific data and plenty of very sound practical experiences about this very topic.

Thank you.

SHBoss1673

Thank you.

for reference colombiana, I've written a blog, one of my posts covers calorie deficits (and another is on the short and long term fasting phenomena), feel free to browse it.

http://banks1850-machinations.blogspot.com/2011/02/calorie-deficits.html


Just so you know, I almost never write stuff without first researching it. I don't always cite the research, but you can always ask me how or what info I have on something. I usually have it squirreled away somewhere or know where to find it.

sarahlauren18

OOhhhhh I'M SO CONFUSED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

colombiana444

Thank you again, just read the one about caloric deficit.
Even though the original post and the blog aren't disproving one another (i think they complement each other well actually) i certainly appreciate the extra info
Thanks!

SHBoss1673

Thank you again, just read the one about caloric deficit.
Even though the original post and the blog aren't disproving one another (i think they complement each other well actually) i certainly appreciate the extra info
Thanks!

part of it does correlate, I probably come down to harsh sometimes. But I don't like people nonchalantly referencing the Minnesota study because they usually get the results wrong, Keys (the guy who performed the study) was very clear in his facts and they were very scary sometimes.

Anyway, my point is just that there's so many posts about starvation mode on here already, I just don't really like seeing it again, because it means the same debate starts up again over the same information from the same people and a few newcomers. It really never changes. It's just frustrating after 4 years on MFP.

a2canadian

I don't know that this really captures what "starvation mode" paranoia is all about. When people are told to eat more it isn't usually because they won't lose weight eating less, it's because if they do not eat enough kcal/day their body will begin to consume muscle, store it as fat, and use it as energy. So yes, if you fail to eat enough you may indeed get "fatter" though you will probably lose weight (as muscle does indeed weigh more than fat).

So:

Eating less, feeling a bit hungry, allowing your stomach to shrink so you don't need to eat as much to "feel full," and maintaining a healthy balanced diet = good

Eating so little that your body starts to break down muscle into fat = bad

Just remember: starvation mode isn't really about feeling "starved" it is about your body lacking the energy and nutrients to continue to function at a normal level. Brain activity will decline, you will feel physically exhausted almost constantly, and chances are you won't be all that "hungry"... just sluggish and under-nourished.

colombiana444

I don't know that this really captures what "starvation mode" paranoia is all about. When people are told to eat more it isn't usually because they won't lose weight eating less, it's because if they do not eat enough kcal/day their body will begin to consume muscle, store it as fat, and use it as energy. So yes, if you fail to eat enough you may indeed get "fatter" though you will probably lose weight (as muscle does indeed weigh more than fat).

So:

Eating less, feeling a bit hungry, allowing your stomach to shrink so you don't need to eat as much to "feel full," and maintaining a healthy balanced diet = good

Eating so little that your body starts to break down muscle into fat = bad

Just remember: starvation mode isn't really about feeling "starved" it is about your body lacking the energy and nutrients to continue to function at a normal level. Brain activity will decline, you will feel physically exhausted almost constantly, and chances are you won't be all that "hungry"... just sluggish and under-nourished.

yup

kkellam1

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Just hang in there buddy,
you are doing the right thing for your well being which is all that matters.
Don't assume that you are in starvation mode because it can be a bit scary to think that.
Here are actually a few possibilities i have come accross.
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Thanks! Great response. I know deep inside that it's just a matter of continuing the course (it's a long race) but I had been riding high on that euphoria of losing fast that it felt like a brick wall when I saw the scale stop dropping. Logically, I know that if I just continue, so will the results. The really great thing is that I still have such a strong motivation that seeing the scale stop hasn't detered me a bit.

The thing that I am most proud of is that, for the first time ever, it's been a month and I haven't yet made a "deal" with myself. Haven't cheated with food, haven't missed an excercise, etc. In fact, I haven't even been tempted.

Atleast40

Thank you for the information. I read some now & Ill read some later.

wmubuffettfan

Thanks for this post. I had been ignoring the starvation mode posts on here, but its nice to see it stated like this.

Nailrep

AWESOME ARTICLE! Recaps the points that I have lived by for the last 25 years - and STILL going strong...

* You CAN go below 1200 calories a day to lose weight. This is ESPECIALLY important for those of us who are short and don't require that much to begin with.

* You WILL NOT gain weight if you go below the dreaded starvation level of 1200 calories. It is NOT POSSIBLE to gain wieght on 800 calories a day unless you have some health issue or you are taking a medication that might cause weight gain. So perhaps the person gaining the weight might not be logging calories correctly. Who knows? The bottom line is if you eat more calories than your body requires, you will gain weight. If you eat fewer, you will lose. Simple math.

* You CAN go below 1200 calories, lose weight, and NOT gain it back if you learn to eat correctly - staying within your daily caloric needs. You could lose 1 pound a month and STILL gain it all back if you start eating more than you need when you resume "real life" eating.

Having said all this, I do believe you need to have a doctor monitor your health as you diet, if you choose a LCD.

chrisdavey

kkellam1: the answer is healthy fats like avocados, nuts etc. not KFC :P

Re the workouts and maintaining muscle mass. IMO, walking is not going to do anything. Some basic resistance training using full body compound exercises is the go. (I lost 60lbs with a lot of muscle loss because of not doing any and have spent probably the last 2 years trying to gain back the strength I lost) And the best thing about knowing this now and still being a big boy is that you will be able to lift really heavy stuff (in relative terms) easy!

Keep it up mate.