Fat Intake: Pros and Cons... Nutritionists? Body builders? O

maserati185

I'm often enough over in fats. Usually, on the days which this is the case, I've eaten nuts and/or avacado. I've read that these are "good fats". Here's the deal. All of the fat-free products out there imply that we need less fat. Is it true? I know a serious body builder who eats fat to burn fat and I have cousins in some great shape who do the same thing. Still, it's a fairly new concept for me and difficult to adapt to. What's your view on fats? From your perspective, what are the fats pros and cons?

chuckyp

The only thing about fats is that they are higher calorie per gram than carbs or protein, so it's easy to go over your calories.
I think lots of high glycemic simple carbs/sugars is worse because of the insulin response. There have been a couple good articles linked on here about that. Also a discussion of the documentary "Fat Head" which talks about that very thing. Check it out. It's on streaming Netflix if you have it.
I myself usually eat pretty well at home, but when I'm at work it's almost always fast food 4 times a week. I make reasonable choices with the fast food to keep the calories down, but it's still pretty high in fat. Like a Big Mac but with a salad instead of fries. And I've still lost about 22 lbs since January.
Even though I'm not really doing a low-carb diet, I am agreeing with the thinking that it's carbs causing American obesity, not fats.

auntiebabs

I watch SATURATED FATS, TRANS FATS and CHOLESTEROL.

Our body NEEDS fats for brain function among other things.
FAT FREE is not good. From everything I've read about 20-30% our calories should come from fat.

Mostly I watch because of a family history of heart disease.
(I don't worry about healthy fats from nuts, avocado, olives, etc.)

Olives,
Olive Oil
Salmon
Have fats that actually reduce your cholesterol

(Some no fat food that lower your cholesterol are red grapes, Mangoes, and oatmeal)

JennLifts

I think in all areas.. it's moderation not excess and not absence. Fat is a secondary energy source, helps us absorb fat soluble vitamins, is insulation, etc. Carbs are what provide energy for you to run, as in operate. Your brain needs carbs, and they're your primary energy source.

chuckyp

Here's one of those article links I dug out of another thread here:

http://www.details.com/style-advice/the-body/201103/carbs-caffeine-food-cocaine-addiction

In a nutshell, according to this article, you don't need to eat any carbs. Your body will make the carbs it needs from the other foods you eat. Too many carbs, however, trigger an insulin response that stores the carbs as fat and leads to other problems.

I'm just linking here, but it seems like sound information to me. I'm not a doctor and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

auntiebabs

Even though I'm not really doing a low-carb diet, I am agreeing with the thinking that it's carbs causing American obesity, not fats.

I personally think it is all the added sugar food manufacturers put in what is sold as "real food"
it's cheap and it increases the appetite. So it prompts us to eat even more empty calories.

I've had scientists, nutritionists and diabetics explain the science to me. Although I can never remember it off of the top of my head it made sense to me because I already figured it out by noticing my own bodies responses.

Canned plain tomato sauce has 1g of sugar in it, prepared sauces (Ragu, prego, Classico, DelMonte) have about 9g per 1/2 cup serving.
My favorite cookies have 9g of sugar for 15 cookies. But I've picked up "diet" or "healthy" frozen dinners that have had as much as 30g of sugar.
Nutrigrain bars sell themselves as "healthy" but they have 11 DIFFERENT KINDS OF SUGAR!
And sugar goes by so many different names it makes it even more challenging to control our intake.

SammySweetheart

Avocados and nuts are fantastic fats to be eating regularly. When it comes to fats, stay away from trans and saturated fats, and eat more monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. Without getting into a bunch of science, these kinds of fats have been shown in studies to regulate your body's balance between good and bad cholesterol. Avocados, nuts, peanut butter, olive oil, fish... are all great sources of good fats. Keep it up!

stevemcknight

Here's one of those article links I dug out of another thread here:

http://www.details.com/style-advice/the-body/201103/carbs-caffeine-food-cocaine-addiction

In a nutshell, according to this article, you don't need to eat any carbs. Your body will make the carbs it needs from the other foods you eat. Too many carbs, however, trigger an insulin response that stores the carbs as fat and leads to other problems.

I'm just linking here, but it seems like sound information to me. I'm not a doctor and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I didn't read this article yet - but if it says what you claim - it's exactly right. Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Carbs have a zero daily requirement, unlike fat and protein. Fat can be a primary source of energy which is amazing due to using a mixture of body fat and dietary fat for energy reserves.

In addition, I would argue with the OP that said it's easy to overeat fats, while fats are 9cal per gram, they are IMO much more filling and long lasting. On my carb up days, I have a much much harder time turning off the food stream with carbs than fats. Once that sugar hits, it's crazy hard to stop eating for me, with fat, I don't get the insulin shock and sugar craving.

Steve
KnightFit.com

stevemcknight

I think in all areas.. it's moderation not excess and not absence. Fat is a secondary energy source, helps us absorb fat soluble vitamins, is insulation, etc. Carbs are what provide energy for you to run, as in operate. Your brain needs carbs, and they're your primary energy source.

Actually, your brain doesn't need carbs, it can function fine without them indefinitely. People sometimes get hazy when they first give up carbs because they haven't started producing keytones yet, thus it's like running on fumes, but after a 7-10 day induction window, you'll be fine I made it through the window on my third try lol

jammyone

Our ancestors ate 75% fat and 25% with access to very few carbohydrates. They would eat plants and animals, but vegtables aren't very dense in carbs so even when they feasted on plants, carb intake was very low. Our bodies have evolved to metabolise FAT with carbs being a very secondary source of energy, and it's certainly NOT required for brain function.

soysos

fats are a necessity, they do two things primarily. first they add substance to the diet, they slow down digestion, two little fat in the diet and you feel hungry constantly. to much fat in the diet however can bind up the stomach preventing digestion.the body's defense to this is to get rid of the excess fat, via regurgitation. the other thing is they are a slow burning energy source, because of this fats, more than anything else, are responsible for generating body heat, so you need a little more in the winter than you do in the summer. if you can stomach that much fat, I wouldn't worry about it.

xraychick77

they say there are good fats and bad fats..the ones that are saturated and unsaturated. the ones that produce hdl and ldl. the thing is..that fats are very high in calories. meaning if you eat alot of fats, you are going to be intaking a lot of cals too.

carbs dont cause people to get fat, fats dont either. its calories. now..not saying that its totally healthy to eat an all carb diet or an all fat diet or an all protein diet, because its not. and plants are indeed heavy with carbs. meat isnt. in reality we need a good balance of carbs, fat and protein macros to function at our optimum..can we function with less or more of either..sure..but i'm saying at our optimum.

i personally eat a lot of carbs, as i am a vegetarian. i dont get much fat in my diet. and what i do get is from cheeses and butter and other plant oils.

and anyways..our ancestors were hunter gatherers..they mostly ate plant based foods, with the odd meat thrown in there. look at native peoples now in africa and south america, they are basically the same as our 'ancestors'. they'd hunt for a few small game to bring home, and divided that up with the whole village or tribe. which meant they didnt get much meat in their diet. hence not much fat.

soysos

Our ancestors ate 75% fat and 25% with access to very few carbohydrates. They would eat plants and animals, but vegtables aren't very dense in carbs so even when they feasted on plants, carb intake was very low. Our bodies have evolved to metabolise FAT with carbs being a very secondary source of energy, and it's certainly NOT required for brain function.

gonna have to disagree with you on that, it depends entirely on which society your referring to.

beets, yams, rice, barley, bananas, all manner of fruit, particularly dried, honey, sugar cane. these where staples in many preagricultural societies.

maserati185

Thank you ALL for your contributions to this thread. This topic really intrigues me.

chuckyp and auntiebabs. I agree with both of you... as I suspect all of the added sugars AND high carbs are contributing to more weight gain and less optimum health. I am watching both of these things the most and, even though I've lost 19 lbs. since January this way, I'm trying to gradually move towards more pure foods... but old habits die hard.

I DO have streaming netflix and gonna check out "Fat Head". No Holiday Inn Express? hah.

Steve, when I was eating high sugars, I would feel hungry all of the time. The fats do leave me feeling more full, longer and I think that helps me to consume less, overall.

Soysos, good point about which society.

stevemcknight

they say there are good fats and bad fats..the ones that are saturated and unsaturated. the ones that produce hdl and ldl. the thing is..that fats are very high in calories. meaning if you eat alot of fats, you are going to be intaking a lot of cals too.

carbs dont cause people to get fat, fats dont either. its calories. now..not saying that its totally healthy to eat an all carb diet or an all fat diet or an all protein diet, because its not. and plants are indeed heavy with carbs. meat isnt. in reality we need a good balance of carbs, fat and protein macros to function at our optimum..can we function with less or more of either..sure..but i'm saying at our optimum.

i personally eat a lot of carbs, as i am a vegetarian. i dont get much fat in my diet. and what i do get is from cheeses and butter and other plant oils.

and anyways..our ancestors were hunter gatherers..they mostly ate plant based foods, with the odd meat thrown in there. look at native peoples now in africa and south america, they are basically the same as our 'ancestors'. they'd hunt for a few small game to bring home, and divided that up with the whole village or tribe. which meant they didnt get much meat in their diet. hence not much fat.

What's your source here? I'm curious how you know what our ancestors only hunted for a few small game and divided that up? Native tribes that we look at now have been influenced by modern man, but even with that, there are some that still use persistence hunting to track down game.

The question isn't that carbs cause people to get fat - obviously. Living beside a McDonalds doesn't cause people to get fat either. However, carbs burn substantially faster:

DIGESTION TIME OF VARIOUS FOODS
(approx. time spent in stomach before emptying). ........
Water
when stomach is empty, leaves immediately and goes into intestines,
Juices
Fruit vegetables, vegetable broth - 15 to 20 minutes.
Semi-liquid
(blended salad, vegetables or fruits) - 20 to 30 min.

Fruits

Watermelon - 20 min.digestion time.
Other melons - Canteloupe, Cranshaw, Honeydew etc. - 30 min.
Oranges, grapefruit, grapes - 30 min.
Apples, pears, peaches, cherries etc. - digest in 40 min.

Vegetables

Raw tossed salad vegetables - tomato, lettuces, cucumber, celery, red or green pepper, other succulent vegetables - 30 to 40 min. digestion. -
Steamed or cooked vegetables
Leafy vegetables - escarole, spinach, kale, collards etc. - 40 min.

Animal proteins

Egg yolk - 30 min. digestion time
Whole egg - 45 min.
Fish - cod, scrod, flounder, sole seafood - 30 min. digestion time
Fish - salmon, salmon trout, herring, (more fatty fish) - 45 min. to 60 digestion time
Chicken - 11/2 to 2 hours digestion time (without skin)
Turkey - 2 to 2 1/4 hours digestion time (without skin)
Beef, lamb - 3 to 4 hours digestion time
Pork - 41/2 to 5 hours digestion time

1g of fat equals more than double 1g of carbs, however, feeling empty and post-sugar crash, many (no - not all - I get it.) people will reach for more food. I can easily pack down a whole box of Special K cereal (whole wheat) on a carb-up cheat day and skim milk in one sitting, (2,000 calories) and would seriously struggle to put down 2,000 calories of pork or chicken.

To each their own, just clearing up what I said earlier.

myofibril

If you look at one of the original research papers in relation to Paleolithic / Hunter Gatherer diets, rather than the diet books trying to flog you something the following is recommended:

---

Eat whole, natural, fresh foods; avoid highly processed and high-glycemic-load foods

Consume a diet high in fruits, vegetables, nuts, and berries and low in refined grains and sugars. Nutrient-dense, low-glycemic-load fruits and vegetables such as berries, plums, citrus, apples, cantaloupe, spinach, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, and avocados are best

Increase consumption of omega-3 fatty acids from fish, fish oil, and plant sources

Avoid trans-fats entirely, and limit intake of saturated fats. This means eliminating fried foods, hard margarine, commercial baked goods, and most packaged and processed snack foods. Substitute monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats for saturated fats

Increase consumption of lean protein, such as skinless poultry, fish, and game meats and lean cuts of red meat. Cuts with the words round or loin in the name usually are lean. Avoid high-fat dairy and fatty, salty processed meats such as bacon, sausage, and deli meats

Incorporate olive oil and/or non–trans-fatty acid canola oil into the diet

Drink water

Participate in daily exercise from various activities (incorporating aerobic and strength training and stretching exercises). Outdoor activities are ideal

---

As you can see indiscriminate consumption of fat is not recommended. Like carbs, fat is not bad or evil. It is just the type and the quanties in which they are consumed.

Unfortunately, the whole paper cannot be reproduced without permission and I respect that. However, it can easily be found with a simple Google search.

Incidentally, macro nutrient breakdown for HG's were stated to be:

Protein (%) High (19-35)
Carbohydrates (%) Moderate (22-40)
Total fat (%) Moderate (28-47)

Hope that helps.

tgh1914

If you look at one of the original research papers in relation to Paleolithic / Hunter Gatherer diets, rather than the diet books trying to flog you something the following is recommended:

---

Eat whole, natural, fresh foods; avoid highly processed and high-glycemic-load foods

Consume a diet high in fruits, vegetables, nuts, and berries and low in refined grains and sugars. Nutrient-dense, low-glycemic-load fruits and vegetables such as berries, plums, citrus, apples, cantaloupe, spinach, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, and avocados are best

Increase consumption of omega-3 fatty acids from fish, fish oil, and plant sources

Avoid trans-fats entirely, and limit intake of saturated fats. This means eliminating fried foods, hard margarine, commercial baked goods, and most packaged and processed snack foods. Substitute monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats for saturated fats

Increase consumption of lean protein, such as skinless poultry, fish, and game meats and lean cuts of red meat. Cuts with the words round or loin in the name usually are lean. Avoid high-fat dairy and fatty, salty processed meats such as bacon, sausage, and deli meats

Incorporate olive oil and/or non–trans-fatty acid canola oil into the diet

Drink water

Participate in daily exercise from various activities (incorporating aerobic and strength training and stretching exercises). Outdoor activities are ideal

---

As you can see indiscriminate consumption of fat is not recommended. Like carbs, fat is not bad or evil. It is just the type and the quanties in which they are consumed.

Unfortunately, the whole paper cannot be reproduced without permission and I respect that. However, it can easily be found with a simple Google search.

Incidentally, macro nutrient breakdown for HG's were stated to be:

Protein (%) High (19-35)
Carbohydrates (%) Moderate (22-40)
Total fat (%) Moderate (28-47)

Hope that helps.

What I like about this advice is it has stood the test of time. This is what most dieticians/nutritionists have been promoting for many decades, as opposed to special diets or fads that tend to come & go over time.

soysos

there is nothing wrong with a high carb diet. I have had a high carb low protein diet most of my life, the only problems I have ever had with my weight is uncontrollably loosing it.