Is there such thing as 'too much' protein?

erickirb

The general recommendation is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. If you are doing a lot of exercise and need the extra protein for repair and rebuilding muscle, you can go up to 2 grams per kilogram of body weight. (If you weigh yourself in pounds, divide that by 2.2 to get kilograms.) The studies I've read have only proven protein to be safe up to 2.7 grams per kilogram of body weight, so I wouldn't recommend going over that. For most people excess protein isn't risky, but if you are prone to kidney issues, excess protein can make them worse. It can also be rough on the liver and mess up the pH of the blood and other organs if you are eating too much protein and not enough carbs. But again, that is at levels of more then 2 grams per kilogram of body weight unless you already have medical issues.

Meh forget what I just said, Tonya's usually write about everything, lol

BUT, if you only eat 50ish g a day then you are back down to about 15-20% protein which would be 55% ish carbs which is at the highest end is it not? 45-50% carbs is ideal for regular calorie counting diets NOT low-carb plans.

A balanced diet consist of carbs from 45-60%, protein from 10-30%, and fats from 20-30%. So you can esily have a diet that is 50/20/30 carb/protein/fat ratio, or 60/20/20, or 45/25/30, and still have a balanced diet. More balanced than if your protein is above 30%

freerange

The men of the Lewis and Clark expedition averaged about 9 POUNDS of meat per day (mostly elk). Now, that alone equals 4680 calories, 54 grams of fat, and get this, 900 grams of protein. If you listen to the vegetarians, and the high carb “experts” here you would think these men would have dropped stone cold dead after a couple days from an exploded liver and complete kidney failure. They would also eat fat off the beavers they caught, or bear fat, and when they got to the west coast whale blubber, to increase their fat intake. These men were healthy, except for some of the local diseases and from drinking unsanitary water. And from the “cures” Clark would put them thru when they did get sick.

It takes a lot longer then a couple of days to die from a high fat or high protein intake. Lewis died at 35 years old, much too soon to see the effects of his poor diet. Clark however, died at 69 from an unknown illness which could have easily been heart disease, liver disease, or some form of cancer. Medicine back then didn't really have the capability of looking at his cholesterol or other levels.

Lewis was Bi-polar and suffered from great bouts of depression, and most likely took his own life.

And how convenient to claim someone died from diet related illness when you have no proof. Actually heart disease, cancer and other diet related deaths were rare in the time of Lewis and Clark, in fact not until post WWII did we start to see the occurrences of these diseases become common.

TrainingWithTonya

As for how much the body can use at once, that is between 20 and 30 grams per meal. It varies from person to person and larger people tend to be able to handle more. That's part of why you are fuller on high protein diets. The enzymes and such that are required to break it down just can't be produced fast enough to handle more. For some people, the extra protein will cause gastrointestinal issues when they eat too much at once. You'll know if you have those issues, though.

This is a myth. Whole food protein sources digest at a rate of 3-6gms an hour. Also take into account other nutrients eaten and you are talking about several hours. How on earth could we have survived as a species only being able to digest 20gms at a meal?

This is precisely why it can be an issue to eat too much at once. Assuming the highest rate of digestion of 6 grams per hour, the 48 gram meal will take 8 hours to be digested. That's why it can cause gastrointestinal distress for some people because it is in the stomach and small intestine for so long before being used by the body. Whereas if you eat a 20 gram protein meal, it will be digested in a little over 3 hours and you can then eat another 20 gram protein meal and still get the usage of the protein without the risk of GI issues from it sitting around all day.

TrainingWithTonya

The men of the Lewis and Clark expedition averaged about 9 POUNDS of meat per day (mostly elk). Now, that alone equals 4680 calories, 54 grams of fat, and get this, 900 grams of protein. If you listen to the vegetarians, and the high carb “experts” here you would think these men would have dropped stone cold dead after a couple days from an exploded liver and complete kidney failure. They would also eat fat off the beavers they caught, or bear fat, and when they got to the west coast whale blubber, to increase their fat intake. These men were healthy, except for some of the local diseases and from drinking unsanitary water. And from the “cures” Clark would put them thru when they did get sick.

It takes a lot longer then a couple of days to die from a high fat or high protein intake. Lewis died at 35 years old, much too soon to see the effects of his poor diet. Clark however, died at 69 from an unknown illness which could have easily been heart disease, liver disease, or some form of cancer. Medicine back then didn't really have the capability of looking at his cholesterol or other levels.

Lewis was Bi-polar and suffered from great bouts of depression, and most likely took his own life.

And how convenient to claim someone died from diet related illness when you have no proof. Actually heart disease, cancer and other diet related deaths were rare in the time of Lewis and Clark, in fact not until post WWII did we start to see the occurrences of these diseases become common.

You're right, we didn't have common diagnosis of these diseases until after WWII, but that is because we also didn't have modern medicines capabilities of diagnosis and treatment. And claiming that Clark may have died of a diet related illness is no worse then claiming he didn't. We have no way of knowing what killed him. Which means you also have no way of knowing it wasn't his poor diet, so claiming that diet is safe is just as convenient.

Actual science, however, has proven that low fat, low protein, and high fiber diets are best for preventing various diseases.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/59/4/935.long

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031255/?tool=pubmed

http://www.springerlink.com/content/229r0j61r5dqm1hj/

freerange

Actual science, however, has proven that low fat, low protein, and high fiber diets are best for preventing various diseases.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/59/4/935.long

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031255/?tool=pubmed

http://www.springerlink.com/content/229r0j61r5dqm1hj/

Like the diet advocated by the American Heart Association?

freerange

Reading studies like this make my brain hurt, so I like to go to the synopsis at the end. Here is what the first study had to say. “The observations in this study indicate that a low-fat, high-fiber diet MAY result in metabolic changes compatible with reduced atherogenicity and thrombogenicity and support the use of a low-fat diet for primary and secondary prevention of ischemic heart disease , and POSSIBLY also for the prevention of other atherothrombotic disease? Caps added by me.

So this study MAY show low fat, high fiber diet might POSSIBLY be helpful in preventing these long worded diseases.

We can provide links to studies all day, what I'm getting at is not everything is concrete, the low fat, high fiber diet (LFHF)is not the cure all for disease some think it is and study after study prove this, yet so many people still bow at it's alter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=1

Check out what the AHA diet did to this monkey.

If weight loss is your only goal, LFHF will work, so will eating twinkies under your calorie limit. However if health is your goal there is a lot of new information out there that points in the direction 180 degrees away from LFHF.

TrainingWithTonya

Reading studies like this make my brain hurt, so I like to go to the synopsis at the end. Here is what the first study had to say. “The observations in this study indicate that a low-fat, high-fiber diet MAY result in metabolic changes compatible with reduced atherogenicity and thrombogenicity and support the use of a low-fat diet for primary and secondary prevention of ischemic heart disease , and POSSIBLY also for the prevention of other atherothrombotic disease? Caps added by me.

So this study MAY show low fat, high fiber diet might POSSIBLY be helpful in preventing these long worded diseases.

We can provide links to studies all day, what I'm getting at is not everything is concrete, the low fat, high fiber diet (LFHF)is not the cure all for disease some think it is and study after study prove this, yet so many people still bow at it's alter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=1

Check out what the AHA diet did to this monkey.

If weight loss is your only goal, LFHF will work, so will eating twinkies under your calorie limit. However if health is your goal there is a lot of new information out there that points in the direction 180 degrees away from LFHF.

I read this article. I've also looked at doing my graduate work at the University of South Florida where Dr. Hansen does her research. Fat Albert is obese because of excess calorie intake and lack of physical activity. That can happen on any diet, not just a high fat diet. While obesity in an of itself is a risk factor for disease, the risks I'm referring to are the actual organ functions and lipid levels within the body. It is possible to be fit and fat, where someone carries a little extra body fat but also has great cardiorespiratory exercise capabilities, blood profiles, and organ function. In fact, fewer people die each year when they are overweight but fit then who are underweight but unfit. So, gaining weight from eating right but in excess without exercise isn't proof that it is an unhealthy diet.

jizenna

After reading all of this information I am scared to even drink 1 protein shake pre or post workout!! Is it okay to have a protein shake a day?? Now I have worries of killing my liver, kidneys, or putting my colon through some sort of strain after reading this topic! WTH!

freerange

Reading studies like this make my brain hurt, so I like to go to the synopsis at the end. Here is what the first study had to say. “The observations in this study indicate that a low-fat, high-fiber diet MAY result in metabolic changes compatible with reduced atherogenicity and thrombogenicity and support the use of a low-fat diet for primary and secondary prevention of ischemic heart disease , and POSSIBLY also for the prevention of other atherothrombotic disease? Caps added by me.

So this study MAY show low fat, high fiber diet might POSSIBLY be helpful in preventing these long worded diseases.

We can provide links to studies all day, what I'm getting at is not everything is concrete, the low fat, high fiber diet (LFHF)is not the cure all for disease some think it is and study after study prove this, yet so many people still bow at it's alter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=1

Check out what the AHA diet did to this monkey.

If weight loss is your only goal, LFHF will work, so will eating twinkies under your calorie limit. However if health is your goal there is a lot of new information out there that points in the direction 180 degrees away from LFHF.

I read this article. I've also looked at doing my graduate work at the University of South Florida where Dr. Hansen does her research. Fat Albert is obese because of excess calorie intake and lack of physical activity. That can happen on any diet, not just a high fat diet. While obesity in an of itself is a risk factor for disease, the risks I'm referring to are the actual organ functions and lipid levels within the body. It is possible to be fit and fat, where someone carries a little extra body fat but also has great cardiorespiratory exercise capabilities, blood profiles, and organ function. In fact, fewer people die each year when they are overweight but fit then who are underweight but unfit. So, gaining weight from eating right but in excess without exercise isn't proof that it is an unhealthy diet.

Oops, I guess you skipped over this little bit.

“It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat,” said Anthony G. Comuzzie, who helped create an obese baboon colony at the Southwest National Primate Research Center in San Antonio.

TrainingWithTonya

After reading all of this information I am scared to even drink 1 protein shake pre or post workout!! Is it okay to have a protein shake a day?? Now I have worries of killing my liver, kidneys, or putting my colon through some sort of strain after reading this topic! WTH!

Yes, it's safe to have a protein shake. Just check how many grams of protein you are suppose to have, 0.8 to 2 grams per kilogram of body weight, and make sure your total protein at the end of the day is within that range.

TrainingWithTonya

Reading studies like this make my brain hurt, so I like to go to the synopsis at the end. Here is what the first study had to say. “The observations in this study indicate that a low-fat, high-fiber diet MAY result in metabolic changes compatible with reduced atherogenicity and thrombogenicity and support the use of a low-fat diet for primary and secondary prevention of ischemic heart disease , and POSSIBLY also for the prevention of other atherothrombotic disease? Caps added by me.

So this study MAY show low fat, high fiber diet might POSSIBLY be helpful in preventing these long worded diseases.

We can provide links to studies all day, what I'm getting at is not everything is concrete, the low fat, high fiber diet (LFHF)is not the cure all for disease some think it is and study after study prove this, yet so many people still bow at it's alter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=1

Check out what the AHA diet did to this monkey.

If weight loss is your only goal, LFHF will work, so will eating twinkies under your calorie limit. However if health is your goal there is a lot of new information out there that points in the direction 180 degrees away from LFHF.

I read this article. I've also looked at doing my graduate work at the University of South Florida where Dr. Hansen does her research. Fat Albert is obese because of excess calorie intake and lack of physical activity. That can happen on any diet, not just a high fat diet. While obesity in an of itself is a risk factor for disease, the risks I'm referring to are the actual organ functions and lipid levels within the body. It is possible to be fit and fat, where someone carries a little extra body fat but also has great cardiorespiratory exercise capabilities, blood profiles, and organ function. In fact, fewer people die each year when they are overweight but fit then who are underweight but unfit. So, gaining weight from eating right but in excess without exercise isn't proof that it is an unhealthy diet.

Oops, I guess you skipped over this little bit.

“It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat,” said Anthony G. Comuzzie, who helped create an obese baboon colony at the Southwest National Primate Research Center in San Antonio.

Yes, "Added Carbs" in addition to the other food already in the diet, which would put them at even more of a calorie excess. Calorie Excess = Weight Gain. Calorie Excess with No Exercise = Fat Gain.

fteale

When I was learning biology we were told that you only need a matchbox sized amount of protein per day and most meat eaters eat far too much. The excess protein is converted to fat in the body.

Newfiedan

All this arguing over high protein vs high carb diets annoys me. I come from a culture that has probably the worst diet known to man, high fat, high protein and some of the worst foods that you could eat. Here is an idea of a traditional newfoundland breakfast as eaten by both me and my father and grandfather.
3-4 whole eggs
1-2 pounds salt fish (that is fish dried with salt then soaked in water later to eat still very high sodium)
5-6 slices of homemade white bread
1-2 mugs of tea using evaporated milk and black strap molasses or honey.

Now I know the dietitians of trainers here are thinking MY GOD that's a prescription for death, and that was just breakfast guys. There were mounds of potatoes and fatty meats with veggies for the rest of the meals, I grew up on this stuff, and no I was not severely overweight. Why you ask? Simple I worked hard, physically demanding work day in and day out from the time I was 8 onto adulthood. Now I know what many are thinking and yes I did put weight on in my adult years but it was mostly when I changed my diet and included more sweets (store bought not homemade) and did not work as hard that I put on the pounds. So even though we are told what is good and what is not to eat it does not mean they know it all, nor do I for that matter. I do know what works for me, I went back to my roots and started eating cleaner and less processed and the weight has come off easily for me. I have no trouble with energy or muscle gain and I eat 1g of protein for every pound of body weight, I have 0 health problems now (2 have cured themselves with clean eating) and I listen to what my body tells me it needs. Some days are more carbs, some days are high protein. Sore muscles? Eat more protein, feeling dragged out eat more carbs, the body can heal itself from 90% of all problems if you simply feed it what it wants.
The bottom line is to listen to the body and just eat a sensible diet, if you are not feeling good then thats the body telling you something is missing. Fresh veggies, good lean proteins, and fruits will keep you nourished the fat loss happens naturally when you nourish the body properly.

fteale

Absolutely. Humans are designed to crave high protein and sugar because naturally we would be doing a huge amount more than most people do with a modern lifestyle. It is all about balancing out food with activity level. My father in law eats similar to the way you describe your family because he is a farmer and is working physically very hard 8 hours a day.

freerange

Reading studies like this make my brain hurt, so I like to go to the synopsis at the end. Here is what the first study had to say. “The observations in this study indicate that a low-fat, high-fiber diet MAY result in metabolic changes compatible with reduced atherogenicity and thrombogenicity and support the use of a low-fat diet for primary and secondary prevention of ischemic heart disease , and POSSIBLY also for the prevention of other atherothrombotic disease? Caps added by me.

So this study MAY show low fat, high fiber diet might POSSIBLY be helpful in preventing these long worded diseases.

We can provide links to studies all day, what I'm getting at is not everything is concrete, the low fat, high fiber diet (LFHF)is not the cure all for disease some think it is and study after study prove this, yet so many people still bow at it's alter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/health/20monkey.html?_r=1

Check out what the AHA diet did to this monkey.

If weight loss is your only goal, LFHF will work, so will eating twinkies under your calorie limit. However if health is your goal there is a lot of new information out there that points in the direction 180 degrees away from LFHF.

I read this article. I've also looked at doing my graduate work at the University of South Florida where Dr. Hansen does her research. Fat Albert is obese because of excess calorie intake and lack of physical activity. That can happen on any diet, not just a high fat diet. While obesity in an of itself is a risk factor for disease, the risks I'm referring to are the actual organ functions and lipid levels within the body. It is possible to be fit and fat, where someone carries a little extra body fat but also has great cardiorespiratory exercise capabilities, blood profiles, and organ function. In fact, fewer people die each year when they are overweight but fit then who are underweight but unfit. So, gaining weight from eating right but in excess without exercise isn't proof that it is an unhealthy diet.

Oops, I guess you skipped over this little bit.

“It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat,” said Anthony G. Comuzzie, who helped create an obese baboon colony at the Southwest National Primate Research Center in San Antonio.

Yes, "Added Carbs" in addition to the other food already in the diet, which would put them at even more of a calorie excess. Calorie Excess = Weight Gain. Calorie Excess with No Exercise = Fat Gain.

That is not what the study says, they did not "add" carbs to what they were already eating.

Newfiedan

what it boils down to is using common bloody sense, if you want to be a weight lifter with huge muscles you are going to need to eat lots of protein, if you are a desk jockey not very active or a couch potato then you need to eat for that. Tailor the diet to your specific needs, a desk jockey or couch potato does not need more than what mfp suggests. A physically active person who works out will need more and if you are gunning for bigger muscles you need more again.

freerange

Barbara C. Hansen of the University of South Florida said calories, but not high fat, were important. “To suggest that humans and monkeys get fat because of a high-fat diet is not a good suggestion,” she said.

Another quote from the study.

freerange

Dr. Hansen, who has been doing research on obese monkeys for four decades, prefers animals that become naturally obese with age, just as many humans do. Fat Albert, one of her monkeys who she said was at one time the world’s heaviest rhesus, at 70 pounds, ate “nothing but an American Heart Association-recommended diet,” she said.


This from your Dr. Hansen. Now my question is; Does the AHA recommend excess calories?

TrainingWithTonya

Since you want to continue taking snippets of the article (which is not a study by the way, but an article about how monkeys are being used in studies because they are genetically closer to humans then lab rats) out of context, lets quote the article correctly.

The monkey’s daily diet consists of dried chow pellets, with about one-third of the calories coming from fat, similar to a typical American diet, Dr. Grove said, though the diet also contains adequate protein and nutrients.

They can eat as many pellets as they want. They also snack daily on a 300-calorie chunk of peanut butter, and are sometimes treated to popcorn or peanuts. Gummy bears were abandoned because they stuck to the monkeys’ teeth.

They also drink a fruit-flavored punch with the fructose equivalent of about a can of soda a day. In all, they might consume about twice as many calories as a normal-weight monkey.

Dr. Grove and researchers at some other centers say the high-fructose corn syrup appears to accelerate the development of obesity and diabetes.

“It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat,” said Anthony G. Comuzzie, who helped create an obese baboon colony at the Southwest National Primate Research Center in San Antonio.

Still, about 40 percent do not put on a lot of weight.

Note the sentence "In all, they might consume about twice as many calories as a normal-weight monkey." And the sentence "It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat." That specifically says they are consuming excess calories (twice as many as a normal-weight monkey) and they ADDED carbs (Added those carbs). So, yes, the monkeys in the San Antonio Center are eating in excess and have had additional carbs added to their eating plan. Also note that last sentence "about 40 percent do not put on a lot of weight." Wow, I guess carbs aren't the problem for everyone, or every monkey.

Barbara C. Hansen of the University of South Florida said calories, but not high fat, were important. “To suggest that humans and monkeys get fat because of a high-fat diet is not a good suggestion,” she said.

Dr. Hansen, who has been doing research on obese monkeys for four decades, prefers animals that become naturally obese with age, just as many humans do. Fat Albert, one of her monkeys who she said was at one time the world’s heaviest rhesus, at 70 pounds, ate “nothing but an American Heart Association-recommended diet,” she said.

This is the entire section regarding Dr. Hansen and her research practices. It doesn't say how much Albert was fed, only that it stuck to the AHA guidelines. The AHA guidelines don't give a calorie range for humans, much less monkeys. From this article, we can't assume he overate or underate. But as she does mention that she prefers monkeys that gain weight as they age, and because they are using monkeys to be closer to how humans respond to weight, we can assume that the excess weight Albert gained was because he was doing as most humans do and eating the same amount as he aged that he had eaten earlier in life but with less activity and a reduced amount of muscle mass because monkeys like humans will lose muscle mass as they age if it isn't training to maintain it. Loss of muscle mass causes a decrease in metabolism, which is basically a decrease in the amount of calories used daily. If the monkey was on a 2000 calorie plan and was burning 2000 calories as a young monkey all is well, stable weight. Then if he became sedentary and lost muscle and ended up only burning 1500 calories per day but was still eating 2000 calories per day, that is a pound a week of weight gain.

Like I said earlier, weight gain can happen on any diet if it is eaten in excess of what the body needs. Misinterpreting this articles statements doesn't change that fact. And no where in this article does it mention the research on how the added weight effected blood lipids, blood sugar, or any other disease marker other then mentioning one monkey who died of a heart attack. But it doesn't state what diet plan that monkey was on.

You keep saying something about the American Heart Association diet plan, so here is a link for you to the diet recommendations from the AHA. http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/HealthyDietGoals/Healthy-Diet-Goals_UCM_310436_SubHomePage.jsp As you can see, no specifics on calories, but there are specifics on fruits, veggies (Fruits and vegetables: At least 4.5 cups a day) , whole grains (Fiber-rich whole grains: At least three 1-ounce-equivalent servings a day), meat (Processed meats: No more than 2 servings a week) and saturated fat intake (Saturated fat: Less than 7% of total energy intake). There aren't claims that this will cause a loss in weight. This plan is to help people reduce their risk of heart disease. Do they recommend maintaining a healthy weight, yes. But they don't tell you how to do it. Their goal, their mission, their reason for being in existence is to reduce heart disease! Being skinny won't matter if you die young from a heart attack.

I don't care if you want to eat a 90% saturated fat diet. I don't care if you want to eat nothing but meat like Lewis and Clark. If it works for you for your goals, great. If simply losing weight is your goal, which it obviously is since that is all you've focused on with your article, then you can probably achieve it with those diets as long as they are low calorie. But when someone asks a question as the OP did with regards to the health risk of excess protein, allow the professionals who have actually studied nutrition for years to give the real science about health risks instead of promoting newspaper articles or other media hype about the fad diet of the month.

TamDTam

too many experts, scientists, know-it-all & Google-ologists for not so lil ol me who just wants a simple healthy diet

for every "renowned expert" saying one thing, there are 3 of his equally studied classmates who says 50,500 opposing things... pick who you want to listen to or dont listen to any of them but please, for the sake of all that is sacred, stop acting like ONE of them has the modern cure & 100% fool-proof answer for anything.