Best balance of cardio and strength training??

greyhoundluv

Hi!
I am trying to figure out how to structure my workout routine, in terms of frequency and type of exercise. I am having an argument with a friend of mine and was hoping you MFP experts can weigh in (no pun intended!!) on this topic to help us sort it out.
First off, I am 50 and know that I have lost a lot of lean muscle mass over the past few years (combo of a pain condition, aging, and, I will admit it, laziness!!). I have been doing a lot of research about weight loss and metabolism (reading Jillian Michaels "Master your Metabolism"--awesome!!) and it seems to me that having a good amt of lean muscle mass is really important in weight loss and cranking up the metabolism. I have been doing cardio on the elliptical 3-4 times/week, which doesn't aggravate my pain condition, but have also been working with a personal trainer to slowly and carefully add weights again to my routine. Unfortunately, there are times when the weights increase my pain, and then I am in pain for a day or so. Sometimes it is fine, though, and my inclination is to keep going slowly and carefully with the weights in addition to the cardio because I don't think that cardio alone will build the kind of muscle mass needed to help my metabolism, etc. My friend, on the other hand, swears by cardio and thinks I should stop the weight training entirely, since it can increase my pain and may cause more problems than it helps. I disagree.
What do you guys think? Can cardio alone build the kind of muscle I need, especially in my age category, to keep going with weight loss?? I know that as we age we lose muscle mass at some kind of increased exponential rate also!!
Thanks!
Nancy

kao708

Instead of using machines and weights, have you tried using resistance bands? I use these with the Turbo Jam series and it doesn't seem to irritate my joints & arthritis as much. Plus, I can increase/decrease the resistance easily if needed.

I'd say you definitely need to include some sort of strength training in your routine...just find what works for you. Good luck!

orting514

Instead of using machines and weights, have you tried using resistance bands? I use these with the Turbo Jam series and it doesn't seem to irritate my joints & arthritis as much. Plus, I can increase/decrease the resistance easily if needed.

I'd say you definitely need to include some sort of strength training in your routine...just find what works for you. Good luck!

orting514

Maybe thats what i need, resistance bands hah!? anything to burn caleries. Never heard of turbo jam, i'll have to look into this.

xraychick77

OMG I have a greyhound too!!!!

ok..here is the general rules. to build muscle you need to eat a surplus of calories, but not too much so you wont gain a lot of fat with that muscle. to burn fat you need to cut calories, but you can still maintain your muscles by lifting.

I am soley on a weight lifting regime now. When i was 'cutting' I lifted for 40 mins, then right after did cardio for 50. when you are building muscle, you can do cardio, but not too much since you dont want to burn off those well earned calories you've eaten. you can do cardio for health reasons to keep up your endurance. other than that when you want to build you want to stick with lifting as your primary source of exercise.

ps cardio does NOT build muscle..resistance training does! For someone who is aging, lifting is the best form of exercise..as it builds that lean muscle you need. when you lose muscle you also loose calcium and hence can lead to osteoperosis. all cardio does is burn calories and help with endurance and does nothing to build strength and mucles.

kylakesgal

Yes the resistance bands are great. I bought Leslie Sansone's walk at home boot camp and 2 of them were included with that. Leslie's walk a home dvds are awesome! A really good work out which is much more than just walking. I highly recommend it:) I'm 45 and will be 46 soon and finding it harder to lose but not impossible. Lunges are great too. I read yesterday they work more muscle groups than any other type of exercise. They are tough at first but that is something to consider too. On my dvd, she does lunges with resistance bands also. Best of luck to you. You can do it!!

greyhoundluv

I knew I would find some other greyhound folks on here too!!! I have two retired racers, and even though they have not raced in several years, their muscle definition is still awesome. If only I could be as ripped!!

Thanks for everyone's responses thusfar. Very helpful. For my resistance training I am using kettlebells, and my trainer has been teaching me proper form and the amount of weight to use. I think that my increased pain this week came from trying to increase the weight too quickly and doing too many pushups--that tends to get me right in the area that my pain starts in, right between my shoulder blades.
So what I am getting is that both cardio and resistance training are important for a weight loss process. I just need to talk with my trainer and my physical therapist and figure out how to do the weight lifting in a way that is not going to hurt me.

OMG I have a greyhound too!!!!

ok..here is the general rules. to build muscle you need to eat a surplus of calories, but not too much so you wont gain a lot of fat with that muscle. to burn fat you need to cut calories, but you can still maintain your muscles by lifting.

I am soley on a weight lifting regime now. When i was 'cutting' I lifted for 40 mins, then right after did cardio for 50. when you are building muscle, you can do cardio, but not too much since you dont want to burn off those well earned calories you've eaten. you can do cardio for health reasons to keep up your endurance. other than that when you want to build you want to stick with lifting as your primary source of exercise.

ps cardio does NOT build muscle..resistance training does! For someone who is aging, lifting is the best form of exercise..as it builds that lean muscle you need. when you lose muscle you also loose calcium and hence can lead to osteoperosis. all cardio does is burn calories and help with endurance and does nothing to build strength and mucles.

TrainingWithTonya

First of all, what kind of pain are you in? Certain conditions like arthritis and fibromyalgia can see vast improvements in pain over time with strength training. The individual workouts need to be modified to not aggravate the condition, though. There needs to be slow progression to heavier weights and dynamic movements through large ranges of motion should be progressed to slowly only after simpler less intense movements can be done without pain. You mention working with both a personal trainer and physical therapist. Make sure they are working together too. Personal trainers do not have the education on injuries and various conditions that physical therapists do. The personal trainer should teach you a plan that the physical therapist designs or approves. That way you will get the most benefit from it for your pain.

Also, cardio only actually breaks down muscle. It doesn't build it. It may strengthen some type I fibers, but it will break down the type II fibers.

Rynatat

Everyone has to find their own balance. Due to several car wrecks (not my fault, but see my profile for more details), I thought I WAS a wreck for life. I lost a bunch of weight finally and then gained a lot back. Something I realized a little over 1 year ago was that the weight I lost had been mostly muscle. So my goal this time round was to get my muscle back & lose the fat. I didn't think I could get as thin as I'd been before, but if I could just maintain I thought I could live with that.
Apparently my body had other thoughts in mind, since once it started getting kicked into gear (about 4 months after I had kept up my routines & not given up although I hadn't seen any results) it told me what it liked. I use light weights (3, 5 & 8 lbs - on crazy days I might use 10 for some exercises ), I also added Tai'Chi and Yoga into my mix (Tai'Chi is AWESOME for my bad days when my back, hips, knees or neck are out) and my stamina has improved 100 fold! I am stronger & more fit now than I was in high school, I look & feel better than I did in my 20's and although weigh about what I did at my thinnest point several years ago, I fit in smaller size clothes and am more tonned - I don't "look" skinny (which I didn't want - I'm not a model, wont even be a model; I'm me :happy: ).
There was some pain as I went through my journey, in those cases I lowered my weights or, as someone else mentioned, used resistance bands or just my own body weight. I also focused a lot on strengthening & balancing my core which is intrinsic to any fitness program (and life in general). I focus on my core on even mundane tasks (like taking things from the washer to dryer, I don't bend at the waist and twist I bend at the knees and carefully focus on "how" I'm moving so I don't dislocate a disk or pop a hip; when loading/unloading the dishwasher, I bend at the knee not the hip, general house cleaning, same thing - focus on core). In the last 6 months I've seen a HUGE improvement over the way I look at feel - granted it's taken me a bit over a year to get to this point, but it's been worth it, building slowly, carefully & focusing on my end-result.
I wish you all the best in your journey, and just remember that you need to find your balance (look into Tai'Chi - that's where I've "gained" the most in my core training). :flowerforyou:

rileysowner

Cardio, like the eliptical, will not really build any muscle. My personal opinion for most people cardio is far from ideal for weight loss. In fact the more I research the more I find that cardio, for the long investment in time it requires, is likely one of the least effective forms of fat burning out there. A study by Dr. Angelo Tremblay showed that very thing comparing what most people would consider cardio or aerobic exercise to High Intensity Interval Training. To quote from another web site:

Dr. Angelo Tremblay

by MLauren » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:02 pm
Dr. Angelo Tremblay and his colleagues at the Physical Activities Sciences Laboratory,
in Quebec, Canada, tested the popular belief that low-intensity, long-duration exercise is
the most effective program for losing fat. They compared the impact of moderate-intensity
aerobic exercise and High-Intensity Interval Training on fat loss.
Skinfold measurements revealed that the Interval Training group lost more body fat.
Moreover, when they took into account the fact that the Interval Training burned less calories
during the workouts, the fat loss was 9 times more efficient in that program than in the
aerobics program. In short, the Interval Training group got 9 times more fat-loss benefit for
every calorie burned exercising. How can that be?
Because, after taking muscle biopsies, measuring muscle enzyme activity, and lipid
utilization in the post exercise state, they found that High-Intensity intermittent exercise
caused more calories and fat to be burned following the workout. In addition, they found
that appetite is suppressed more after intense intervals.

http://www.marklauren.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=49

Add to this the fact that your body from cardio will eventually start to break down those muscle fibers that give strength and power leaving only the smaller ones that deal with endurance which will reduce your overall metabolism, and you see why I am starting to go against standard cardio at all. Those hours on a treadmill, eliptical, or bike going on and on at the same pace will have little long term benefit.

Now your situation is special because of your pain. As stated, at least as I type this, I have not seen why you have this pain, but as also stated your Physical Therapist needs to work with your Trainer to make sure the exercises are appropriate and that you are doing them with perfect form. Having said that, if you have weight routines that work with your pain problem, you will find the weight training will have more benefit in the long run.

Lizzgeorge77

You might find yoga beneficial to add to your routine - it's strength training but in combination with flexibility and light cardio. A lot of people with chronic pain have found relief that way. I'm in a different place than you are, but personally I aim for strength training / circuit training 3 days a week, cardio 3 days a week, and yoga one day a week. I just bumped up strength training from 2 times to 3 times a week, and I'm already seeing a difference.

Strength training will change the way your body looks even if you don't lose weight. And over the long term I don't see why it should make your pain worse - though perhaps in the short term during recovery from a particular workout it would be uncomfortable. Muscle growth will firm you up, make your functional day to day life more comfortable (being able to climb stairs, lug groceries, even dry your hair without strain or unease), and support your bones which will reduce your risk of fractures as you age (and the falls which cause those fractures). It's a must for women your age!

greyhoundluv

Thank you SO much to all who have responded. That is exactly what I thought, that low intensity long cardio workouts could end up being, at best, not tremendously helpful, and at worst might be counterproductive.
I have gotten some great info and personal experience from you guys. And great advice, to have my trainer and my PT talk to each other.
My pain condition is not really the result of an acute injury. It has built up chronically over the years, probably starting as some poor body mechanics in workouts, combined with a very sedentary job (constant sitting), stress accumulation, and getting older. It is located right between my shoulder blades and radiates up into my neck, jaw and head, sometimes down my arm as well. It is mostly myofascial in origin (as my PT works on it that way), and we have ruled out disk involvement, fibromyalgia, etc. Basically, it is a pain in the neck, literally.

kathleennf

Thanks so much for this post! It is obviously a great topic for all of us. I want to add a little additional info based on my own experience, research and asking advice. I'm 48 now and dealing with a lot of the same issues. About 5 years ago I had gained a lot of weight (well- for me; 35lb heavier than I am now). I went on SlimFast and lost it over a 5 month period but made the mistake of not exercising properly (I walked my dog daily but that was it). After I went off the diet I was VERY careful to not gain weight back although I did gain about 10lb, partly intentionally because everyone kept saying I was "too skinny." Finally as my dog got older and older I found that walking her was not much exercise anymore so I got a gym (Curves) membership. I wanted to get stronger and also wanted to be able to maintain my weight without eating so little!! So I started working out about 2.5 years ago now. When I started out my weight was near the upper end of the normal range, but my body fat % was like 34%!! I was not at all happy with that. The exercise over time (about a year and half) resulted in weight loss of about 12lb but I was not building muscle mass despite following the recommended program (circuit training 3x/wk with cardio 1-2x/week usually, depending on how many days I actually made it). Eventually I got frustrated and started researching this further. I ended up contacting the researcher who has done a lot of the original research for Curves and he pointed out two things I had not thought of, and sent me a lot of data to back it up:
1> I needed to eat more protein. For my age, exercise plan and goals I need to be eating about 70-80mg of protein per day.
2> Current research suggests that the nutrient TIMING is important. (It matters what time of day you eat compared to your strength-training workout.)

MFP is helping me a lot to track my protein intake. I think it is going to be a slow process. I'm not so good at the nutrient timing thing yet- it's very difficult trying to organize along with all the rest of my life LOL. But at least with MFP I am getting the protein in.
Hope this helps!

juliapurpletoes

bumping a great topic...