What the Primal/Paleo lifestyle is about ... and not:

padkat

What an interesting thread. Thank You:flowerforyou:

heniko

It's not about reality or science.

Help me out here ... let's set aside the 'catchy' name (paleo/primal) and tell me why you feel eating meat/poultry/fish, vegetables and fruit is not about reality or science?

It is a fact that there is absolutely *no* amino acid available in these food sources that can only be obtained in grains, beans or dairy products. The converse is not true. Therefore, why eat low quality food sources?

Wonderfully put dear!

roqoru

Thank you so much for putting this up here. I am looking into it, doing research, etc. Consistently, I am over my daily goal in carbs, and I know that if I don't make a drastic change, nothing will change. That's not true for everyone, just me.

I am going to jump in with both feet and go grocery shopping tomorrow. My husband is an avid cook and already has more spices than I knew existed, so it should be pretty easy to eat something interesting every day.

The only question I really have is. . . what do you eat for breakfast? I'm used to oatmeal or cereal, which are no-nos, and I'm not a big fan of eggs first thing in the AM.

heniko

Hi Roqoru!

I would like to invite you to the No Grain No Pain group which is for general low carb http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/226494-no-grain-no-pain?page=17#posts-3212928

But also the Primal/Paleo group here http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/232749-palelo-support-group?page=13#posts-3212969

Here on this page I have listed a few breakfast ideas ... many non-eggs page 7 http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/226494-no-grain-no-pain?page=7

Please feel free to take a look and ask questions in the groups - everyone is friendly and helpfum. Also feel free to add me if you like also!

Grokette

Thank you so much for putting this up here. I am looking into it, doing research, etc. Consistently, I am over my daily goal in carbs, and I know that if I don't make a drastic change, nothing will change. That's not true for everyone, just me.

I am going to jump in with both feet and go grocery shopping tomorrow. My husband is an avid cook and already has more spices than I knew existed, so it should be pretty easy to eat something interesting every day.

The only question I really have is. . . what do you eat for breakfast? I'm used to oatmeal or cereal, which are no-nos, and I'm not a big fan of eggs first thing in the AM.

I eat leftovers from supper the night before sometimes.............

mocha76

bump

heniko

One of the most beautiful things about the Primal Nutrition guidelines, is that other than what you shouldn’t eat, there are no guidelines.

It's not about eating 3 square or 6 small meals evenly spaced throughout the day as society or trendy diets dictate. It's about eating when you are hungry.

It's not about eating certain types of food for any given meal. It’s interesting how Americans have come to view cereals, eggs, bacon, pancakes, biscuits etc. as only “breakfast” foods. We also consider a sandwich to be a universal “lunch” food, and for “dinner” we usually have some type of meat with vegetable and bread sides. Eat what you want when you want!

Adding to the previous, you don’t have to combine foods to balance a meal or for that matter worry about combining too many different foods.

It's not about limiting portions, because your body will do it for you once you get all the junk out of your system. Your body will be getting all the nutrients it needs, thus sending the proper hormonal messengers to your brain signaling satiety. Even if you willfully try to eat too much, as long as what you’re eating isn’t triggering a large insulin response, your body has other mechanisms in place to regulate itself. Still, practice eating until you are no longer hungry, not until you are “full”.

It is about the importance of intelligent exercise. Intelligent is the key word here. Changing your body does NOT mean having to sweat it out through an hour and a half of spin class every dayIt is about

heathersmilez

It is NOT about counting calories, carbs or anything else.

Weird, I guess then you are on MFP for the support and not the calculator. I love the calculator and hate the "support". Have been doing sooooooo much better myself ever since I got rid of 8 pages worth of "friends" just on the news feed ("friends" are still there, not deleted there but the news feed is gone now).

I eat as clean as possible w/ very rare processed food items, my meat is NOT grass fed etc - it's just not worth the investment for me (I love deals!) and have sucessfully bumped up my fat intake to about 25-35g a day. I was struggling to eat about 10-15g before (WW frame of mind since I memorized all that years ago but NEVER paid to be part of WW. Gained 2 lbs in 1st semester and freaked out, lol, 2 lbs, woop de doo!) so this is a big step for me, I know 25-35g is still low for those on primal diets so I value several of the rules from the primal diet.

penmillion

Hmmm, I'm starting to think you all are onto something here. I've got a lot of reading to do.

heniko

I think for practical reasons people in the beginning esp for weight loss maybe need to track but this type of lifestyle it's not manadatory since meats, fruit and veg really don't contain that much calories or carbs or sugars. You can eat a whole 4oz chicken breast for the same calories as one slice of toast ... personally a chicken breast would fill me up not a slice of toast.

Support vs tools I think depends on the person. Both have been helpful to me.

Barneystinson

It is NOT about counting calories, carbs or anything else.

Weird, I guess then you are on MFP for the support and not the calculator. I love the calculator and hate the "support". Have been doing sooooooo much better myself ever since I got rid of 8 pages worth of "friends" just on the news feed ("friends" are still there, not deleted there but the news feed is gone now).

I eat as clean as possible w/ very rare processed food items, my meat is NOT grass fed etc - it's just not worth the investment for me (I love deals!) and have sucessfully bumped up my fat intake to about 25-35g a day. I was struggling to eat about 10-15g before (WW frame of mind since I memorized all that years ago but NEVER paid to be part of WW. Gained 2 lbs in 1st semester and freaked out, lol, 2 lbs, woop de doo!) so this is a big step for me, I know 25-35g is still low for those on primal diets so I value several of the rules from the primal diet.

Some of us still count them in a sense. Not strictly in the sense that I record things everyday, but I have to be aware of portions. If I get off track or have a bad day, sometimes I'll go back to counting for a few days to make sure I'm around where I need to be.

I need to meet around 1800 cals/day, need to make sure I'm not going overboard.

Grokette

It is NOT about counting calories, carbs or anything else.

Weird, I guess then you are on MFP for the support and not the calculator. I love the calculator and hate the "support". Have been doing sooooooo much better myself ever since I got rid of 8 pages worth of "friends" just on the news feed ("friends" are still there, not deleted there but the news feed is gone now).

I eat as clean as possible w/ very rare processed food items, my meat is NOT grass fed etc - it's just not worth the investment for me (I love deals!) and have sucessfully bumped up my fat intake to about 25-35g a day. I was struggling to eat about 10-15g before (WW frame of mind since I memorized all that years ago but NEVER paid to be part of WW. Gained 2 lbs in 1st semester and freaked out, lol, 2 lbs, woop de doo!) so this is a big step for me, I know 25-35g is still low for those on primal diets so I value several of the rules from the primal diet.

I am here for support as well as I do log my food to make sure my fat, protein and carb ratios are where I want them to be, which I have been falling short in the fat department here lately as I have run out of coconut oil and can't buy anymore until Friday when I start getting my regular paychecks again.......butter isn't the same anymore.

Hey, you are eating very similar to how we eat already..........Some people do better on higher fat (I know I do) and some others a bit lower........

play around with things and figure your body out. Upping the fat will keep you from overeating as it does with most of us!!! Just make sure the fats are natural from meats, dairy, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts and such......

DianaPowerUp

Some of us still count them in a sense. Not strictly in the sense that I record things everyday, but I have to be aware of portions. If I get off track or have a bad day, sometimes I'll go back to counting for a few days to make sure I'm around where I need to be.

I need to meet around 1800 cals/day, need to make sure I'm not going overboard.

I do this too. It helps keep me on track, to make sure that I am eating enough, and that I'm eating enough of the RIGHT things. I can keep track of my macros much better this way. And if I have a bad day, I can see where I went wrong.

I'll probably track things less, once I have a better grasp of this lifestyle. But b/c I still eat a fair amt. of fruit and occ. grains, that can bump my carbs up, so I have to pay attention to that.

heniko

Here is a great site full of info for the beginner - http://www.paleodietandliving.com It goes in depth with all the Primal Laws

JohnnyNull

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

Barneystinson

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I'm going to be nice and balanced in my response, although you basically just called me out as a whackjob who hasn't put forth the slightest bit of effort into understanding anything regarding evolution and diet.

Opposing views...good reading but does not equate to "God's Honest to Goodness Truth, the end all be all viewpoint" - addresses the grain issue, leaves me skeptical on the consumption of animal protein sources considering a number of the "sources cited" point back to Vegsource links. Gotta love that unintentional Wiki bias, right?

And on another thing - no one is truly eating a Paleolithic diet here. There are elements of Neolithic foods to some degree. I'm not a full opponent of eating grains, but avoid gluten-containing grains. And honestly is a gluten-containing grain a necessity in one's diet? No. If you want to go stomp out a forum, how bout heading over to one advocating the daily consumption of Ho-ho's... (like, in moderation, of course!)

heniko

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

You have any idea who writes these Wiki posts? Not scienists for sure, but worldwide Internet users ... so I would hardly call Wiki a solid source! Just like I wouldn't call the US gov food pyramid a source either!

And Barney makes some good points you should reread her post least twice.

freerange

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

Cool wiki link. So? Nothing new there, i've read most of that stuff before. Nothing there suggest the “paleo” diet is bad, harmful, or anything. It only provides opinion that maybe some of the information science has produced could be looked at in a different light. Big deal. I can,,,,, and have provided as much or more science backed information suggesting the Paleo diet is good, beneficial, and works. My research has lead me to believe that this is the most healthy lifestyle, until I find information I believe, that points me to another more healthy lifestyle I will continue down this path.

Nice try, come back when (edit) you have something worth discussing.

freerange

I check in on most of the veggie threads just to see what is being discussed. Funny how I never see you over there touting the health risk of eating nothing but a veggie based diet, which there are many.

Barneystinson

Also without looking at what you eat, JohnnyNull, but reading back through your post history, I'm not in much disagreement with you about many of your other viewpoints. Instead of lumping us into one cult following - do realize many respond to Paleo / Primal threads but are not blind devotees of Sisson, DeVany, Cordain, etc...

I see you also are trying gluten free eating...? Just my two cents, but I'm guessing your diet is not drastically different from many here unless you're carbo-loading on gluten free grains.

Grokette

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I don't care about opposing views..........I am doing what is best for ME and my FAMILY!!!

But this is what your link has to say:

One line of evidence used to support the Stone Age diet is the decline in human health and body mass that occurred with the adoption of agriculture, at the end of the Paleolithic era.[21][114] Associated with the introduction of domesticated and processed plant foods, such as cereal grains, in the human diet, there was, in many areas, a general decrease in body stature and dentition size, and an increase in caries rates. There was also an associated general decline in health in some areas

Yep, that is really opposing the way I already think. It actually supports everything I have read and learned so far.

heniko

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I don't care about opposing views..........I am doing what is best for ME and my FAMILY!!!

But this is what your link has to say:

One line of evidence used to support the Stone Age diet is the decline in human health and body mass that occurred with the adoption of agriculture, at the end of the Paleolithic era.[21][114] Associated with the introduction of domesticated and processed plant foods, such as cereal grains, in the human diet, there was, in many areas, a general decrease in body stature and dentition size, and an increase in caries rates. There was also an associated general decline in health in some areas

Yep, that is really opposing the way I already think. It actually supports everything I have read and learned so far.

Yea what works for us!

I think many of these people google Paleo and why it's bad ... then don't bother reading the full story. Oh well their lose ...

Grokette

I check in on most of the veggie threads just to see what is being discussed. Funny how I never see you over there touting the health risk of eating nothing but a veggie based diet, which there are many.

I know, right???!!!???

There are far more tendencies for bad health with a vegan or vegetarian way of life than with ours.........

Vegans and vegetarians mostly get praised because of the low fat, high carbs in the form of grains - like it is the epitomy of great health..........

I have seen some very frail, pale and sick looking vegetarians................and I used to be one of them too.

JohnnyNull

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I don't care about opposing views..........I am doing what is best for ME and my FAMILY!!!

But this is what your link has to say:

One line of evidence used to support the Stone Age diet is the decline in human health and body mass that occurred with the adoption of agriculture, at the end of the Paleolithic era.[21][114] Associated with the introduction of domesticated and processed plant foods, such as cereal grains, in the human diet, there was, in many areas, a general decrease in body stature and dentition size, and an increase in caries rates. There was also an associated general decline in health in some areas

Yep, that is really opposing the way I already think. It actually supports everything I have read and learned so far.

Wow, that's staggering. You don't care to learn, obviously.

Also, correlation != causation.

Barneystinson

One last thing because I'm on a roll...

We can debate all day long about the inclusion and degree of inclusion of grains, starches, tubers in the agarian and pre-agarian diet.

We can also debate all day long on the consumption of animal content (namely in the form of fatty meats, organs) within modern and ancient societies.

We can also debate all day long about the "ideal" macronutrient ratio. We'll most likely here examples of societies such as the Kitavan (thrived on relatively high carbohydrate) and Nunavut (thrived almost exclusively on high fat / animal consumption).

That being said, I'd like you to find a society that thrived with the inclusion of Neolithic "foods" and "food additives" including but not limited to processed vegetable oils, refined starches and sugars, and/or modern gluten-containing grains.

The crux of what I've retained from reading Primal and Paleo sources is simply that our Neolithic diet is highly inflammatory and not beneficial. It's not a message unique to these sources, you'll see the same thing in any whole foods sources and even, to a degree, some vegetarian movements (at least those who eschew processed soy "meats").

heniko

I check in on most of the veggie threads just to see what is being discussed. Funny how I never see you over there touting the health risk of eating nothing but a veggie based diet, which there are many.

I know, right???!!!???

There are far more tendencies for bad health with a vegan or vegetarian way of life than with ours.........

Vegans and vegetarians mostly get praised because of the low fat, high carbs in the form of grains - like it is the epitomy of great health..........

I have seen some very frail, pale and sick looking vegetarians................and I used to be one of them too.

Most veg are frail and weak. B12 defianceny is major problem for them. Few fat(er) ones I have seen are overloading the sugar. It annoys me their lifestyle is accepted but ours isn't. Well I guess it takes time - them too back in the day were ridiculed!

Pescatarian to all out Carnivores Primal is the way for sure! I can't say enough about all the good changes in my body (other then the weight loss)

JohnnyNull

Also without looking at what you eat, JohnnyNull, but reading back through your post history, I'm not in much disagreement with you about many of your other viewpoints. Instead of lumping us into one cult following - do realize many respond to Paleo / Primal threads but are not blind devotees of Sisson, DeVany, Cordain, etc...

I see you also are trying gluten free eating...? Just my two cents, but I'm guessing your diet is not drastically different from many here unless you're carbo-loading on gluten free grains.

So please inform me, whom do you follow? And if this was such a science, why is there such disagreement in the Paleo camp?

Grokette

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I don't care about opposing views..........I am doing what is best for ME and my FAMILY!!!

But this is what your link has to say:

One line of evidence used to support the Stone Age diet is the decline in human health and body mass that occurred with the adoption of agriculture, at the end of the Paleolithic era.[21][114] Associated with the introduction of domesticated and processed plant foods, such as cereal grains, in the human diet, there was, in many areas, a general decrease in body stature and dentition size, and an increase in caries rates. There was also an associated general decline in health in some areas

Yep, that is really opposing the way I already think. It actually supports everything I have read and learned so far.

Wow, that's staggering. You don't care to learn, obviously.

Also, correlation != causation.

I am continuosly learning..........

What do I need to learn???

That eating grains causing me to have IBS, joint and muscle pain (falsely told I had both arthritis and fibromyalgia), accepting that I would eventually end up on dialysis and insulin shots.

Also, dairy causes me to have sinus infections and excess mucus that I don't want my body to make and bad allergies.


I have learned far more by taking out the foods that cause me grief, thanks but no thanks.

You go ahead and stick to your Standard American Diet (S.A.D. - and it is truly sad) while I am well on my way to optimum health and well being and living medication free............

After all, that is what works for you. I will stick with what works for me.

heathersmilez

Hey, you are eating very similar to how we eat already..........Some people do better on higher fat (I know I do) and some others a bit lower........

play around with things and figure your body out. Upping the fat will keep you from overeating as it does with most of us!!! Just make sure the fats are natural from meats, dairy, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts and such......

I really should try even more fat but 90% of the meat I eat is chicken breast so it is max 2g fat. I do have some salmon in my freezer, I should get on that. With nuts and such they always seem to be = or almost w/ carbs so it's kind of an in/out food or a no-no entirely if you are avoiding most carbs.

I have coconut milk, low fat of course so perhaps I should switch that out and try some of it in my cereal. Any idea how long I can keep this in the fridge after opening a can?

I've moved back to 1% milk from skim so that's also a nice little baby step.

JohnnyNull

Since you people don't seem to put forth the slightest effort to get a balanced view of this, I'll just leave this link here. I imagine you won't read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Opposing_views

I don't care about opposing views..........I am doing what is best for ME and my FAMILY!!!

But this is what your link has to say:

One line of evidence used to support the Stone Age diet is the decline in human health and body mass that occurred with the adoption of agriculture, at the end of the Paleolithic era.[21][114] Associated with the introduction of domesticated and processed plant foods, such as cereal grains, in the human diet, there was, in many areas, a general decrease in body stature and dentition size, and an increase in caries rates. There was also an associated general decline in health in some areas

Yep, that is really opposing the way I already think. It actually supports everything I have read and learned so far.

Wow, that's staggering. You don't care to learn, obviously.

Also, correlation != causation.

I am continuosly learning..........

What do I need to learn???

That eating grains causing me to have IBS, joint and muscle pain (falsely told I had both arthritis and fibromyalgia), accepting that I would eventually end up on dialysis and insulin shots.

Also, dairy causes me to have sinus infections and excess mucus that I don't want my body to make and bad allergies.


I have learned far more by taking out the foods that cause me grief, thanks but no thanks.

You go ahead and stick to your Standard American Diet (S.A.D. - and it is truly sad) while I am well on my way to optimum health and well being and living medication free............

After all, that is what works for you. I will stick with what works for me.

Why assume I follow a "S.A.D."?