Illegal?

ruffledviolet

I was at my gym today trying to get information about positions they were hiring for. I was mainly looking into lifeguarding, but I also noticed they were looking for support in childcare. I asked the woman at the front desk if there was an age requirement for working in childcare. She said that she didn't know and directed me to the actual childcare room. There were two woman working there with a lot of babies. Each woman was holding two babies. One was older (O) and sitting, the other was standing and looked like she was in high school (Y). Here's how it went:

Me: Hi, is there an age requirement for working here?
O: Come right in.
Me: um?
O: Why, how old are you?
Me: I'm not looking for me, I am looking for my younger brother.
O: We don't hire boys.
*O starts laughing and Y follows*
Me: Are you serious?
O: Yeah.
Me: Isn't that illegal?
O: No. It's different for childcare. Because of the bathroom issues.
*I stare blankly*
O: The mom's don't like it when the boys take their kids into the bathroom. They throw a fit.
Me: If there's two people working couldn't the other one take care of it?
O: Sometimes we're alone here.
*Y nods*
O: Maybe you should try the front desk instead.
Me: Well I took a form for the lifeguarding class, but he's really good with kids.
O: Oh. Well, you can try, I just don't want you to waste your time. We've never had a male work here before, right?
*Y shakes her head no*
Me: Okay thanks. So are you desperate to hire someone? (Thinking that maybe I'd apply)
O: No.
Me: Because you told me to come right in.
O: That's because we're busy right now, but they cut our hours in the summer.
Me: Okay, bye.

My mom agrees that this is illegal discrimination (not that she's a lawyer or anything), and she also said it was illegal for only one person to be working in childcare in case of an emergency or if one of them is in the bathroom.

I want to throw another fit to the manager (I did in the past because my paperwork was overlooked in a weight loss competition that I should have came in second place for - eventually she gave in and credited my account the reward), but that would certainly ruin any chances of me possibly working there in the future. I sort of want to work there part time if it would allow me to use the facility for free instead of over $60 per month.

MyaPapaya75

I dont know really the law on it BUT I do know daycares hire men and men do change diapers ..having worked in a center for many years myself .

MyaPapaya75

I dont know really the law on it BUT I do know daycares hire men and men do change diapers ..having worked in a center for many years myself . As far as ratio goes one person can be working I think the limit is 6 kids in my state and if you do have to go to the bathroom you just have another staff come in the room ..

meshellmybell76

I am pretty sure that IS illegal!!! I have three kids and each one of them has had at least one male daycare provider. I always welcomed the opportunity to have a positive male role model in their lives. I think your brother should talk directly to the owner.

eeeekie

Sounds like discrimination to me...can't not give someone a job because of their sex...etc. Generally men aren't daycare givers...I think it's mostly women so that might be why she said what she said. If she's telling the truth the hiring manager won't come out and say "we don't hire men" they will find another reason not to hire him because it is illegal.

Goes against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Equal Pay Act of 1963 (according to wiki)

ElizabethJ17

It probably is illegal but they would probably use any excuse possible other than the gender reason for why they didnt hire him. When interviewing for an internal position at my work as a warehouse specialist the manager started out saying they have never interviewed a female for that position. Long story short I didnt get the job Im sure they would have came up with something if I would have said it was due to gender discrimination.

Dare2BThin

1. It is illegal....I run a center!!!! 2. Umm there are childcare ratio laws. In indiana tthey are 1:4 for infant, 1:5 for 1/2 years and 1:10 for 3 years, and 1/12 for 4-5 6+ for 1:15

monoxidechick

I know that the law in Montana states that all applicants have equal rights, whether childcare or not. And if they have never had a male employee, how would they know if the mothers would throw a fit?

It is also not illegal, at least in Montana, for childcare workers to work alone as long as there are no more than 8 children and no more than 3 infants.

I have worked in many childcare facilities and the males are usually really good employees, work well with the children and the parents, and are great role models for all children, especially the boys.

lolacanaday

Yes, it is illegal. It's sexual decriminalization. My niece is in kinder care and her favorite teacher is a man. They should do a background check on anyone they hire and should never ever assume that because he is male that he isn't qualified to do the job. The woman sounds very ignorant.

kittytrix

It does sound illegal, but I do have to say that there are those people who feel the way these women said some parents feel. I don't have a huge issue with it, but I know my husband would.

DarkDiva2005

I say go and pitch a fit and find a different gym to work at. I worked at the YMCA and I really liked them

cacrat

I'm not up on the child care ratio laws, but the gender bias doesn't sound illegal. And by illegal, I mean criminal. Sure, it MAY be violating a mans civil rights, but I'm not sure its criminal. Unless there is some criminal statute that criminalizes that behavior.

Jennplus2

First of all women can abuse/neglect a child just like a man can, and what about little boys who need to use the bathroom? They feel it would be more appropriate for a little boy to be helped by women than a man?
But the fact that they said for you to just come in is more of a red flag than the fact that they discriminate against men. Don't they do a background check before letting “employees” be with the children in their care? What if you were in the baby stealing business and they let you in to claim your next victim. No drug test? No SSN on file? Just come on in here and hold one of these babies that aren't even mine to pass around to a complete stranger.
I would not only talk to the owner about how highly inappropriate that is, but also quit the gym just on principal! Crazy people don’t need any of my money, thank you very much.
Georgia Tann would have loved a job at your gym! (Georgia Tann stole children from their real families and sold them for her own profit, she was given the nickname “The Hollywood baby snatcher”.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1131282/The-Hollywood-Baby-Snatcher-The-sinister-story-woman-stole-children-sold-stars.html#ixzz1LzeM9ane

Jennplus2

It does sound illegal, but I do have to say that there are those people who feel the way these women said some parents feel. I don't have a huge issue with it, but I know my husband would.

Some people also think that women should not be able to go to school or choose who she is going to marry. "Some people" are wrong.
If women can vote, why not let a man change a diaper?

anbegley

My son is a child care center and 3 of his teachers are male. That's insane. It may be their personal preference to hire women, but they can't say they won't hire a man just because he is a man. Have him apply if he wants to do it. Good luck.

california_peach

I used to work in HR and that is illegal. I live in CA and there are very strict rules about child to adult ratios in daycares and preschools. My gym pages the parents when a child has to use the bathroom or needs a diaper change so that is one clear way around the issue. Of course I am waiting for someone to complain about my 5 yro being the women's bathroom. I don't have an issue with a man taking care of my children. At their preschool the after hours care provider is a man and my boys love him. I like for them to see people in non-stereotypical roles so that they know anyone can do anything~ job wise that is.

cmriverside

Just because the lady who works there said that doesn't mean that is the policy of the gym.


Ask the General Manager before you get all fired up. And - does your little brother really want that job? You may be getting all worked up over something that is a non-issue.

Not ever conversation requires an attorney.

ruffledviolet

I think your brother should talk directly to the owner.

Unfortunately my brother is way to shy to confront an adult. That's mainly why I was looking for a job for him in childcare because he is so much better with kids. He isn't very confident when it comes to standing up for himself. Thanks to his father who put him down so much.

If she's telling the truth the hiring manager won't come out and say "we don't hire men" they will find another reason not to hire him because it is illegal.

Sounded like discrimination to me too, but I was not sure if there were exceptions to the law, and if this was one of them. Also the person at the front desk told me to speak to childcare directly because the manager was in. So, I thought I was speaking with a manager, but maybe not. Either way, I am surprised she said that they "don't hire boys" and that she denied that that was illegal. It would have been different if he applied and got denied.

t. And if they have never had a male employee, how would they know if the mothers would throw a fit?

My thoughts exactly!!! When I mentioned that my brother was good with kids, she also seemed to change her mind about considering him. Either they can hire males or they can't.

But the fact that they said for you to just come in is more of a red flag than the fact that they discriminate against men. Don't they do a background check before letting “employees” be with the children in their care? What if you were in the baby stealing business and they let you in to claim your next victim. No drug test? No SSN on file? Just come on in here and hold one of these babies that aren't even mine to pass around to a complete stranger.
I would not only talk to the owner about how highly inappropriate that is, but also quit the gym just on principal! Crazy people don’t need any of my money, thank you very much.

Well I think that was more of a joke. I don't know that she really would have let me work just then. My gym membership ends on the 15th of this month. I have less than a week left. I am not renewing my membership because of the cost. I have already done the paper work to cancel.

Just because the lady who works there said that doesn't mean that is the policy of the gym.


Ask the General Manager before you get all fired up. And - does your little brother really want that job? You may be getting all worked up over something that is a non-issue.

Not ever conversation requires an attorney.

I am not sure whether or not the person I spoke with was a manager. I agree though that what she says isn't necessarily the policy of the gym. If it isn't the policy of the gym, she should not be saying it.
I told my brother the story when I got home. He does want the job, and is thinking about applying anyway.
I obviously had no intention of hiring an attorney. I have no evidence, nor do I have enough money to afford an attorney.
I simply wanted to know whether or not it really is illegal, and I still would like something to be done if it is.

ruffledviolet

P.S. I live in Jersey.

LuckyLeprechaun

just to chime in, it is definitely illegal. I teach employment law, and this is a federal law, so whatever state, everywhere in the US it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender for any job. The only exceptions to this law are for jobs where you are a "performer". Example, for an acting job, you are totally allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender, looks, whatever. That's why Hooters doesn't hire "waitresses", they hire "actresses" to play the part of waitresses. That way they can discriminate all day long and not violate the law. Same when Disneyland hires someone to be Cinderella. If a black girl applied and was turned down because she doesn't look like Cinderella, it would not be illegal discrimination.


HOWEVER, just because something is illegal doesn't mean you will find a DA that will prosecute it.

ruffledviolet

just to chime in, it is definitely illegal. I teach employment law, and this is a federal law, so whatever state, everywhere in the US it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender for any job. The only exceptions to this law are for jobs where you are a "performer". Example, for an acting job, you are totally allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender, looks, whatever. That's why Hooters doesn't hire "waitresses", they hire "actresses" to play the part of waitresses. That way they can discriminate all day long and not violate the law. Same when Disneyland hires someone to be Cinderella. If a black girl applied and was turned down because she doesn't look like Cinderella, it would not be illegal discrimination.


HOWEVER, just because something is illegal doesn't mean you will find a DA that will prosecute it.

did you see my response above? I'm not interested in pursuing legal action. I just wanted to know for sure if it was legal or not before I said anything. I am still not sure if I will say anything. I am very annoyed about it though.

cmriverside

just to chime in, it is definitely illegal. I teach employment law, and this is a federal law, so whatever state, everywhere in the US it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender for any job. The only exceptions to this law are for jobs where you are a "performer". Example, for an acting job, you are totally allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender, looks, whatever. That's why Hooters doesn't hire "waitresses", they hire "actresses" to play the part of waitresses. That way they can discriminate all day long and not violate the law. Same when Disneyland hires someone to be Cinderella. If a black girl applied and was turned down because she doesn't look like Cinderella, it would not be illegal discrimination.


HOWEVER, just because something is illegal doesn't mean you will find a DA that will prosecute it.

Did you see my response above? I'm not interested in pursuing legal action. I just wanted to know for sure if it was legal or not before I said anything. I am still not sure if I will say anything. I am very annoyed about it though.

I'm pretty sure she saw it. Even if she didn't, it's been asked and answered, (several times) so you have somewhere to start.

ruffledviolet

I'm pretty sure she saw it. Even if she didn't, it's been asked and answered, (several times) so you have somewhere to start.

Thanks, I noticed.

kimber607

Ok, just looking at from the flip side as a mom.....yes it seems unfair, and if the hsow was on the otehr fot and a different scenario we would be up in arms... but as a mom of a 5yr old girls.....I can tell you my dd would FLIP out and NOT be comfortable with a young man helping her in the bathroom..I would not feel comfy leaving her there if there was only ONE man/boy to watch the kids in case that situation came about
Just the reality of it!

LuckyLeprechaun

Ok, just looking at from the flip side as a mom.....yes it seems unfair, and if the hsow was on the otehr fot and a different scenario we would be up in arms... but as a mom of a 5yr old girls.....I can tell you my dd would FLIP out and NOT be comfortable with a young man helping her in the bathroom..I would not feel comfy leaving her there if there was only ONE man/boy to watch the kids in case that situation came about
Just the reality of it!

there are people in this world who would discriminate on other bases, and say, sorry that's just the way I feel. That doesn't make discrimination OK. Go back to your statement and replace "young man" with "black person" Now does that sound alright? Of course not.

Discrimination is wrong, and we have made it illegal because we agree as a society that it is wrong. She should speak up. IMHO

kimber607

Just my opinion...but too much crazy **** going on in the world today
if I don't want a young man helping my 5yr old in the bathroom that should be OK and i know 110% SHE would be very very uncomfortable..bigger fish to fry..let's be real

LuckyLeprechaun

if she is uncomfortable, it's because she was taught to be. The only thing kids are instinctively afraid of is falling, everything else is learned.

this is what's real: discrimination isn't legal.

Casey Anthony should be proof enough that it isn't gender that causes someone to be a threat to small children.

Jon_Rod

if she is uncomfortable, it's because she was taught to be. The only thing kids are instinctively afraid of is falling, everything else is learned.

this is what's real: discrimination isn't legal.

Casey Anthony should be proof enough that it isn't gender that causes someone to be a threat to small children.

I Agree..

kimber607

if she is uncomfortable, it's because she was taught to be. The only thing kids are instinctively afraid of is falling, everything else is learned.

this is what's real: discrimination isn't legal.

Casey Anthony should be proof enough that it isn't gender that causes someone to be a threat to small children.

I Agree..

we can just have a difference of opinion (and I am probably the most nun-judgemental/open minded person on the planet..) and obviously u don't have a little girl...just true or u MAY feel differently
...enough said on this topic

LuckyLeprechaun

I have three daughters. Don't make ASSumptions.

kimber607

I have three daughters. Don't make ASSumptions.

Very mature.....mother of 3 ....whatever...