Osteoarthritis and Running?

hnlymark

I had a physical today with the DVA and, for the most part, received a clean bill of health. In fact, my blood pressure was back to normal (40 pounds ago I was ALWAYS a little high). Yahoo, good news! However, I have been having chronic knee pain and the doctor says I have osteoarthritis in both knees. He asked me what branch I was in (Army) and he says this is fairly typical and is attributeable to the running! Sooo...for you runners out there...hows come ya'll don't end up with this problem? I was in a combat arms unit, so we DID run a lot...but not as much as some of you hard core runners. In fact, the longest run I recall doing was only 11 miles and it was a fun run at that (own pace). Furthermore, if running is so harsh, why do it at all? I guess I am a little dismayed, according to the doc there is no fix for the problem, just work around it. So, at age 37, I hobble around like someone twice my age. :grumble:

hnlymark

I had a physical today with the DVA and, for the most part, received a clean bill of health. In fact, my blood pressure was back to normal (40 pounds ago I was ALWAYS a little high). Yahoo, good news! However, I have been having chronic knee pain and the doctor says I have osteoarthritis in both knees. He asked me what branch I was in (Army) and he says this is fairly typical and is attributeable to the running! Sooo...for you runners out there...hows come ya'll don't end up with this problem? I was in a combat arms unit, so we DID run a lot...but not as much as some of you hard core runners. In fact, the longest run I recall doing was only 11 miles and it was a fun run at that (own pace). Furthermore, if running is so harsh, why do it at all? I guess I am a little dismayed, according to the doc there is no fix for the problem, just work around it. So, at age 37, I hobble around like someone twice my age. :grumble:

joyblaylock

I'm curious to see the answers to this one. I struggle with knee pain on and off. I've been a daily walker since I was about 16 (now 37). But, I've taken up jogging in the last six months and I've noticed the increase in knee pain. I tried new shoes (for stability and overpronation) and they helped some. But, on a muggy, pre-rainy day, I certainly feel about 60.

yoginimary

My dad has never had it and he's 66 years old and has run most of his life - about 6 miles a day. He usually runs on gravel rather than pavement though. Maybe that's why?

JennyGetsFit

Hi!
What is your goal?
If you are trying to lose weight running is not the only option and not necessarily the best option.
I've ran for years, and never could lose the 10-15 lbs that piled on as I aged.

hnlymark

Hi!
What is your goal?
If you are trying to lose weight running is not the only option and not necessarily the best option.
I've ran for years, and never could lose the 10-15 lbs that piled on as I aged.

Yeah, I've given up on running. I go a mile and I am limping badly. I just wanted some cardio and I used to enjoy running. I will have to try cycling or something (oh, if I only had a swimming pool close!). I have steadily been losing weight just staying in my calories and weight training, so I am not concerned about that. Just wish I could still run...

hnlymark

My dad has never had it and he's 66 years old and has run most of his life - about 6 miles a day. He usually runs on gravel rather than pavement though. Maybe that's why?

I've done more reading and it seems genetics can play a part as well. My Mom has it, so it may have put me at greater risk, so all that running probably wasn't so smart. But, you're right, we always ran on pavement and I bet that has a lot to do with it.

hnlymark

I'm curious to see the answers to this one. I struggle with knee pain on and off. I've been a daily walker since I was about 16 (now 37). But, I've taken up jogging in the last six months and I've noticed the increase in knee pain. I tried new shoes (for stability and overpronation) and they helped some. But, on a muggy, pre-rainy day, I certainly feel about 60.

I can go about a mile and the pain becomes pretty intense and I have to limp back. Walking is not nearly as harsh for me. If I have an esecially busy week with a lot of walking I pay for it, but just everyday gettin' around usually doesn't bother me too much. I know what you mean about feeling 60. I was sitting outside enjoying the beautiful day while awaiting my appointments and noticed many people a lot older than me walking with no difficulties at all and I became a little jealous!

mknipp

[I can go about a mile and the pain becomes pretty intense and I have to limp back. Walking is not nearly as harsh for me. If I have an esecially busy week with a lot of walking I pay for it, but just everyday gettin' around usually doesn't bother me too much. I know what you mean about feeling 60. I was sitting outside enjoying the beautiful day while awaiting my appointments and noticed many people a lot older than me walking with no difficulties at all and I became a little jealous!
[/quote]

I can relate to that. BTW, I AM 63! I was actually teaching a karate class evenings after my day job, and I would run almost every evening after that. It always seemed to me that jogging didn't hurt my knees as much as walking at a brisk pace. I mentioned that to a chiropractor friend and he said it was because my knees stayed bent most of the time when I was jogging, so there wasn't as much pressure on my joints. Then at age 58 I was diagnosed with osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, and fibromyalgia. I've had a cortisone shot in one knee that really helped. Hurts bad going in, but within 24 hours, my knee was completely back to normal and hasn't really bothered me that much since. The rheumatologist says I shouldn't jog, but should walk at least 30 minutes a day three days a week. I do it more often than that, but sometimes I "cheat" and jog a bit. I can still feel the pressure begin to ease up when I change from a brisk walk to "gentle jogging"! Who knows? Guess we all have a unique body. If your doc won't give you the cortisone shots, maybe some Aspercreme (I use a lot of that!) will ease the pain a bit.
Best of success.
Marti in Kentucky

firegirlred

First, you should speak to someone in sports medicine.

Having said that, there is a common issue in running that most of us will face and it can cause severe knee pain, but also ankle, hip and other problems. It's called I-didn't-stretchy-itis. If you don't stretch well, the iliotibial band that is made up of tendons and ligaments connecting tissues between your knee and hip on the outside of the leg can potentially cause friction problems in your knee. There are other places that this will affect, but the most common symptom is knee pain. There are other problems relating to not stretching well, but this is likely the most common presentation.

First, stretch.

Second, stretch. Google runners stretches and if you are familiar with most of them, focus on stretching the area between your knee and hip, on the outside of the leg.

This is only my perspective. Not a medical evaluation. I have worked through this type of injury and wound up going to see someone to fit me with shoes that would help. It's one of the things that has kept me from running for 15 years.

If you are already stretching well, ignore the previous.

Genetics does have something to do with this. The way you walk can determine whether or not this will happen. I tend to roll my feet outward, so it put more stress on that side of the leg. Ultimately, it was better stretching, a combination of high impact and low impact training, and the right shoe with the right insert that resolved my problem. I'm running for the first time in the last 15 years without the knee pain.

Fitness_Chick

I had a physical today with the DVA and, for the most part, received a clean bill of health. In fact, my blood pressure was back to normal (40 pounds ago I was ALWAYS a little high). Yahoo, good news! However, I have been having chronic knee pain and the doctor says I have osteoarthritis in both knees. He asked me what branch I was in (Army) and he says this is fairly typical and is attributeable to the running! Sooo...for you runners out there...hows come ya'll don't end up with this problem? I was in a combat arms unit, so we DID run a lot...but not as much as some of you hard core runners. In fact, the longest run I recall doing was only 11 miles and it was a fun run at that (own pace). Furthermore, if running is so harsh, why do it at all? I guess I am a little dismayed, according to the doc there is no fix for the problem, just work around it. So, at age 37, I hobble around like someone twice my age. :grumble:

I've dealt with bad knee pain in the past....gone to an ortho doc and gotten MRI's..it shows the cartilage wearing down he mentioned needing to strengthen my leg muscles to better give support to the knees...so they take less brunt. The changes I've made between weight loss and adding weights to my routine have done a world of good, as long as I keep them up regularly...no more knee pain!! :happy:

I do cardio alot of water aerobics (less joint impact than floor aerobics, plus I love the water!)....but it's not until I added strength training to my regime that the pain not only diminished but vanished....I then recalled the doc telling me it would help to build up the muscles above and below my knees (calf and thigh). For me strength training 3 times a week has been simply what my body needed to make the change. Also I live on the 3rd floor so doing the stairs used to get a bit challenging to say the least...now I find I run up the stairs and down again with no more pain, it really still amazes me to look back to recalling the pain I used to feel.

Occasionally I take Naproxen (Aleve..that sort of thing on weather day) and one thing I never am without is water!! Love love love my water...I think that has alot to do with it too...keeps the joints lubed in our bodies! :drinker: :happy:

a little bit more about me..

TNTPete

Okay, so I looked this up on runnersworld.com and runners have less knee problems according to a recent study. Just look up the recent articles if you care to read.

Anyway, in the military you don't tend to slowly gain miles/speed at your own pace; they (whichever NCOIC/OIC) say today we're doing a 10 mile ruck sack let's go... and you go or, today is a 7 mile sand run. So, that leads to injuries, of course, you could have been a steady runner and this happened because of genetics or any other various thing you have done to your body while in service (jump out of planes??).

An example; my boss started running 20 min at the highest possible speed cause he didn't want to have to slowly add miles/pace to be competitive in his 1.5 mile PT test. It worked -- for a year -- then -- surgery.

So.. I think too much too soon wears a body out, runner, walker, or whatever it is you do.. no expert opinion at all.

firegirlred

I know this is someone else's thread, but as others have posted, it does have impact on my running (ha,ha, no pun intended).

I wish the increase in leg strength had worked for me. It was also the first recommendation made to me. At some point though, it must be too much. Leg strength is crucial for my job. I've lifted more weights than I care to think about, and continue to lift moderately heavy weights. No knee pain during the workouts, but it didn't improve anything during my running.

I didn't notice any difference with water, but I wasn't paying attention to that. Next time I'm in that position, I will. If it does make a difference, then I'm game. Thanks for that recommendation, Fitnesschick!

Thanks for the info about the recent studies in runners. I'll have to look at those. I wonder if that is per person, per miles moved, or has anything to do with other activities. Were these people compared with other athletes (i.e. weight lifters) or Joe Q Public? It sounds like a very interesting study.

In the end, it came down to proper stretching for me and the right shoes. More like a band-aid than a fix it seems now. But I can't stress enough the difference that the shoes made for me. Instant change.

timragan

I've had osteoarthritis in the extreme. I had my right hip replaced 2 1/2 years ago and my left knee replaced almost 1 year ago. There was a time in my life when I ran 6 miles on the weekdays and longer weekend runs. I also played LOTS of tennis.

At this point in my life I don't know if I will ever be able to run again and that saddens me a little but I am a regular on the elliptical trainer (about 1 hour daily) and my since I've gotten regular with this and added some weight training my prosthetic joints are really rehabbing nicely.

I mention this history because it is my view that if you have early stage osteoarthritis you might want to move to low impact exercise such as the elliptical or swimming.

I can say definitively that it sucks to really need a handicap sticker. For me it got so bad that I never: 1. went into a shopping mall - too big, hard floors, 2. Had great difficulty going to the grocery store, 3. consumed large quantities of Vicodin every day (and was really worried I'd be addicted by the time it was over), and I assume I'll have to have at least one of the joints replaced again as I age (I am 52).

hnlymark

Well, thanks for all the replies and advice; sorry I am just now getting back on here. Strengthening seems to be a common recommendation. I have not regularly worked my legs in a long long time, so I suspect there might be something to this (I have "bird legs" right now). So, I am gonna try strength training two days a week for a month and kinda see what develops.
As to stretching, I stretch daily, especially my hamstrings and glutes since I also have a mild lower back problem which is aggrevated by tight legs. I do know that when I was in the Army they never held stretches long enough. They usually did a ten count and that was it. I generally hold my stretches for at least 30 seconds.
When they really get bad, though, the only remedy I've found is to number one stay off them. Secondly, ice followed by heat (I like to ice them down and then take a HOT bath). And, ibuprofin. I try to avoid the last since it is not nice to the stomach.
I am wondering what these cortizone shots do...I think I have something else to study up on...

TNTPete

Careful with cortizone.. it's not a fix all it's a patch/band-aid.
I would do what you're doing and add resistance bands, side steps or lay on your back wrap resistance band behind feet and do controlled legs in and out. That should help the illiotibial muscle (never spell that right).

Good Luck, take it slow and easy.

firegirlred

Rumor has it you only get a certain amount of cortisone shots in your lifetime and they dissolve cartilage... Don't know if this is true, but my choice would be to avoid them.

timragan

I've had a few cortisone shots and they work pretty well but are, as someone mentioned, a mask and do nothing positive to your cartilage.

Another alternative is a product called SynVisc (sp?). It is a derived from some kind of bird and is injected in a series into your knee. The product worked pretty well for me early in my knee deterioration but won't offer much relief of the damage is severe.

There are several products of this type. One Doc told me that SynVisc is the original and in his opinion the best one. I noticed that it was also the only one he carried. Make of that what you will.

I also had one of the other brands and it seemed to work about as well.

The benefit of this class of product is that it does not harm the body like cortisone does. Insurance will pay for it 2 times yearly. Its about $600 if you are without insurance.

truckgrl106

Hi,

I just got back from a ortho surgeon myself. Osteo arthitis in both knees. I had an injury about 5 yrs ago which has just got worse over the years...especially with downhills and stairs. the original injury was in my right leg, but my left knee was the one that swelled recently, and I couldn't walk on it.

I had only started running about 6 months in conjunction with weight training on the legs. I never really got to run though, as I kept injuring my knees just walking ~ upstairs at the train station ~ right knee...and just sleeping on the left knee, which still doesn't straighten.

I was "trying" to run to pass a physical agility test for law enforcement. Doc said no running and no cure. ..and probable knee replacemnts before 50.
But since then I have got a lot of input from others and a few with the same problems. The thread that is most common is to find a "sports medicine" doc and a "sports medicine" physio person.

So I am going for a 2nd opinion with a sports med doc......just have to find one.:-):-)

Will let you know.