Hypothyroidism + PCOS = Weight Loss Woes

rhichi

Hey all,

I'm brand new to here and now that I'm almost out of college I'm trying to get my butt in shape (and the rest of me too). Quick background: I'm in my early 20's, engaged, and living in the northeast US. I've been a vegetarian for eight years and I'm Italian, so I'm cooking all the time. I try to buy local, natural foods whenever possible, and I'm a total gamer/LARPer chick, which is where a good amount of my activity comes from. I also do yoga, when I can get off my lazy butt and do it.

Though I try to eat right and do things correctly, I have two major wrenches. Specifically, I have hypothyroidism and PCOS. My hypothyroidism can't be medicated because my thyroid hormones fluctuate wildly and rapidly (within a month or so, I can go from very hypo to normal to slightly hypo and back to normal again). If I go on pills, even half of the smallest pill they make, I go hyper and get severe, crippling panic/anxiety. Because of my PCOS, I have never had a normal menstrual cycle and have to rely on birth control to force me to have periods. Both of these conditions make me fatigued, anxious, depressed, and overweight.

Is there anyone out there with a similar experience? How were you able to overcome your weight issues without medications? I am a very large proponent of doing things the natural way, without diet pills or temporary weight loss programs. Is there a different set of nutritional guidelines I should be following? Since I'm a vegetarian, I try to diversify my protein intake, because I know depending on just soy will wreck my thyroid even more. Is there anything else really big I should watch out for?

Thanks!

SweetPandora

Here is a link to a website called The Hormone Diet - http://www.thehormonediet.com

The book is written by a natural path Dr. Natasha Turner who suffers from both hypothyroidism and PCOS.

I try to follow her approach of eating without buy all the additional supplements.

I have hypothyroidism and I find eating clean and exercise helps me.

Best of luck.

Karen

cobarlo14

Hi!
Have you ever though about speaking with a nutritionist - he/she may be able to give you better food options.
I have PCOS/insulin resistance - My nutritionist & showed me a whole new world....

You got this!! I wish you the best!!!

Joey

keith0373

Look up http://www.myfitnesspal.com/clintswifeymomof4. She has similar issues and has lost almost 100 lbs. There is some stuff in her blog about it I think.

rhichi

@Pandora: Thanks, I'll check it out!

@cobarlo: I have actually spoken to two nutritionists. Unfortunately, the first one was a little crazy and tried to unrealistically overhaul my whole life, so I stopped seeing her. The second one was more sane, but she didn't really know what to do for me (she's still training technically). I'm seeing a third one next week, so hopefully she'll have some advice, but I think it's sometimes hard for people without the conditions to fully understand how hard it is.

@keith: Hmmm...the link doesn't seem to be working...

jljohnson

I have hypotyroidism, but not PCOS. I found out I was hypo because of lumps discovered on my thyroid- they were large enough to feel externally. I had the same trouble with hormone levels acting wildly. Because of the lumps growing (not cancerous, but concerning), I decided to have my thyroid removed. Since then, it has actually been relatively easy to get my hormone levels normal with meds. I will forever have to take medication, but no longer have to worry about cancer, hormone imbalance, vocal restrictions or other issues those lumps could cause. If you can't feel lumps in your neck, you could talk to your doctor and suggest an ultrasound, to see if you have something similar. I know how tough thyroid imbalance is on weight loss and life in general. Hope this helps :flowerforyou:

jljohnson

Duplicate post... oops!

cobarlo14

@cobarlo: I have actually spoken to two nutritionists. Unfortunately, the first one was a little crazy and tried to unrealistically overhaul my whole life, so I stopped seeing her. The second one was more sane, but she didn't really know what to do for me (she's still training technically). I'm seeing a third one next week, so hopefully she'll have some advice, but I think it's sometimes hard for people without the conditions to fully understand how hard it is.

Hopefully #3 is a charm and knows what he/she is doing - Keep us updated!!!

runningaround

Hi -

I have hypothyroidism (actually I don't have a thyroid at all due to thyroid cancer) and also have been put on meds to hopefully delay diabetes (I had gestational diabetes with 2 of my pregnancies). I am having an AWFUL time losing weight - as soon as I lose some it comes right back. I can't find the right combination of foods at all. I'm cutting out all alcohol and am eating low carb. Any suggestions?

rhichi

@jl: My thyroid is usually slightly enlarged, but ultrasounds have never shown nodules or anything. It's really strange how my levels just change so wildly. My doctors get confused because they'll see a normal THC and T3 one month and then the next time the draw blood, my TSH is really high or my T3 is low. It was really frustrating at first, because the first endocrinologist I had refused to believe I had a thyroid problem (he drew blood on a "euthyroid" day). He even called me a liar because I said I knew my thyroid wasn't working! The next guy tested for antibodies and found that I had Hashimoto's. But then he ended up forcing me to keep taking meds even though it gave me such debilitating panic that I couldn't leave my house. I have had a bit of a roller coaster with doctors...

jonikeffer

I have autoimmune hypothyroidism and hormone imbalances that may or may not actually be PCOS...but sure act like it.
I had a hard time getting the weight loss started, but found that the combo of exercise, a diet overhaul and counting calories finally got it started.

I don't think it's important to eat low-carb per se, but what carbs you eat can be important, and are important for me. Eat complex carbs (steel cut oatmeal, quinoa, brown rice, veggies) and cut out as much as possible any simple carbs (eating some fruit is OK). When I stick to complex carbs I'm fine, but when I get sloppy and have a bagel and/or potato (even staying on target for cals for the day) I find my loss grinds to a halt.

I know that others who have said that (benign) thyroid tumors can cause what you're seeing...the wild fluctuations in hormone levels...are correct. You should both have an ultrasound to look for growths and have bloodwork done to test for anti-thyroid antibodies, which can also cause similar fluctuations as the body is attacking the thyroid.

Edit - sorry, just saw your post where you said you do in fact have autoimmune issues. They will calm down with time, and eventually you will be able to get on meds and have no problems with them. :flowerforyou:

1234lbsgone

I HAD both. My thyroid did what yours did so it was difficult to get a proper diagnosis. I finally saw an endocrinologist and I'm also not into the pills. But he let me be totally proactive in my treatment. Here is what we did:

I started on a low dose of Cytomel, if I felt anxious, I skipped it. I also started out on 500 mgs of Metformin, then increased to 1000. I lowered carbs and stayed on a low cal diet. About 1000-1100 per day. (This was determined based on MY individual body chemistry and I was monitored heavily) As the weight started to fall off, my hormones started to balance out and I stopped the Cytomel and lowered the Metformin to 500 mgs at night only. I have lost a little over 60 pounds now.

My Gyno put me on Femcon for BC, but about 9 months in, my period stopped completely and my ovaries were full of cysts. I switched to Yaz and in about 6 months my period came back. I'm staying on the Metformin because it helps you ovulate and I want to have more kids. Otherwise, I'd be off all meds by now. It was worth it to go on them for a short period. I didn't have any side effects and I was monitored heavily so I felt comfortable. Plus I wanted off of the pills, so I worked extra hard because my endo was very educational with how these things worked. He assured me if I go his way for a short time, I could take over and do it myself later. He was so right.

Now, as long as I am eating well and working out, my weight is not a concern. Since my weight is down, my hormones are WNL most of the time and it's easier to get under control now.

If you aren't seeing an endocrinologist, I highly recommend it. Lower carb diets help PCOS, not drastic. I only reduced my carbs by 5% and it worked for me.

Good luck to you!!!

JDMPWR

I HAD both. My thyroid did what yours did so it was difficult to get a proper diagnosis. I finally saw an endocrinologist and I'm also not into the pills. But he let me be totally proactive in my treatment. Here is what we did:

I started on a low dose of Cytomel, if I felt anxious, I skipped it. I also started out on 500 mgs of Metformin, then increased to 1000. I lowered carbs and stayed on a low cal diet. About 1000-1100 per day. (This was determined based on MY individual body chemistry and I was monitored heavily) As the weight started to fall off, my hormones started to balance out and I stopped the Cytomel and lowered the Metformin to 500 mgs at night only. I have lost a little over 60 pounds now.

My Gyno put me on Femcon for BC, but about 9 months in, my period stopped completely and my ovaries were full of cysts. I switched to Yaz and in about 6 months my period came back. I'm staying on the Metformin because it helps you ovulate and I want to have more kids. Otherwise, I'd be off all meds by now. It was worth it to go on them for a short period. I didn't have any side effects and I was monitored heavily so I felt comfortable. Plus I wanted off of the pills, so I worked extra hard because my endo was very educational with how these things worked. He assured me if I go his way for a short time, I could take over and do it myself later. He was so right.

Now, as long as I am eating well and working out, my weight is not a concern. Since my weight is down, my hormones are WNL most of the time and it's easier to get under control now.

If you aren't seeing an endocrinologist, I highly recommend it. Lower carb diets help PCOS, not drastic. I only reduced my carbs by 5% and it worked for me.

Good luck to you!!!

Cytomel huh? doc had you on a AAS type chemical. Pretty interesting. It works though which is great.

I have Hyperthyroidism and I have cured it most of the time with controlling my carb intake. I went crazy twice because I dropped it below 100grams a day and I put on 10 lbs in a week.

Now my thyroid works like a champ because I keep a constant diet and pretty much eat the same thing everyday which sucks but it has helped me drop something like 100 lbs since I started and 40lbs since I started MFP.

GrowOrDie

WOW!!! I was JUST recently diagnosed with this... and have been at a loss of what this means for my lifestyle and goals. I dont have words to say to describe how I feel except I feel like this diagnosis was a punch in the gut and a smack in the face at the same time. This was a timely thread and I am eager to read more and learn what this means for my life.

rhichi

@ninja: What is Cytomel? I've never heard of it before. I was on Metformin for a while, taking six of those huge pills a day, but they only served to make me nauseous. If they were combined with something better though, it might be worth looking into again. I do really want kids, so if that can help ovulation then that would be great. I'm currently taking Camila 5 days a month to induce periods (I can't take estrogen pills because they give me migraines and increase my risk of stroke), but I just got a new gyno, so I'm not sure if that will change because she's waiting for blood test results to figure out the next step.

1234lbsgone

Cytomel is a thyroid medication. It's not used commonly with new/young doctors. It is a synthetic T3. My endo was old school and a professor, so he didn't follow the text book, he wrote it. My family doctor was a little thrown when he saw what I was taking. Needless to say, I was only on it for maybe 4 months, I lost weight pretty quickly.

rhichi

Is there a reason not to take it over a different type? Why don't they use it anymore?

1234lbsgone

Cytomel huh? doc had you on a AAS type chemical. Pretty interesting. It works though which is great.

I have Hyperthyroidism and I have cured it most of the time with controlling my carb intake. I went crazy twice because I dropped it below 100grams a day and I put on 10 lbs in a week.

Now my thyroid works like a champ because I keep a constant diet and pretty much eat the same thing everyday which sucks but it has helped me drop something like 100 lbs since I started and 40lbs since I started MFP.

Apparently you can order it online. It doesn't shock me at all. But I wouldn't trust it. lol But now I know why my family doctor almost had a heart attack. I really didn't feel any side effects.

1234lbsgone

Is there a reason not to take it over a different type? Why don't they use it anymore?

The most common thyroid med is Synthroid which is a T4, Cytomel is a T3.

From- http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=16899


"The thyroid gland produces the thyroid hormone triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). The thyroid gland produces more T4 than T3, and, in fact, most of the T3 in the body actually results from conversion of T4 to T3 outside the thyroid gland. T4 and T3 have the same effects on the body, and increasing doses of either cause the thyroid gland to make less thyroid hormones. (This is referred to as "feedback inhibition," in which the levels of a chemical in the body regulates its own production.) T3 is more potent that T4, which means that one mg of T3 has a greater effect on the body than one mg of T4.

Levothyroxine (Synthroid) is a synthetic version of T4, and liothyronine (Cytomel) is a synthetic version of T3. Both are used for the treatment of hypothyroidism, but levothyroxine is preferred because T3 is absorbed from the intestine very rapidly, and this may cause mild thyroid hormone toxicity (hyperthyroidism) in some patients. Also, the test that measures the level of T4 in the blood (TT4) is not useful when T3 is administered. (Specifically, if TT4 is used to monitor the adequacy of treatment when T3 is administered, it shows a low level of T4 which can lead to the erroneous decision to administer more T3.) Finally, since T4 is converted to T3 in the body, there is no advantage to administering T3 products."

poeticpurl

I don't have anything to add but would like to see what others say.

rhichi

Ahhh, ok. Is there a reason why he went with T3 instead? Did he suspect you had an issue converting T4 to T3?

Sorry to grill, I just like to get as much info as I can. Sometimes doctors speak so quickly and rushed that I don't actually get to learn what I need/want to.

1234lbsgone

Ahhh, ok. Is there a reason why he went with T3 instead? Did he suspect you had an issue converting T4 to T3?

Sorry to grill, I just like to get as much info as I can. Sometimes doctors speak so quickly and rushed that I don't actually get to learn what I need/want to.

No it's cool. He used to spend 2-3 hours with me talking about this stuff and drawing diagrams, talking about food and exercize. He let me chime in when he had students there, he'd ask a question of the students and they would all be silent. I would raise my hand and say "I know, I know!" LOL Every appointment felt like I was a medical student. I loved him, so sorry he had to retire and go to Florida. LOL

He did it because I had gained so much weight so quickly and had been misdiagnosed AND have anorexia. The T3 absorbs quicker I guess and it worked faster. Plus he suspected that I was misfiring hormones, which was why my test results were so sporatic. I was misfiring alot of things, like adreneline, and having panic attacks. Happened to be something he spent his career researching at the University, so I got lucky there. No other doctor since has been able to grasp it. He did suspect that I was having trouble converting to T3, so he decided to "cut to the chase"- his words, lol.

rhichi

Oh man...I wish I had your doctor. I had a really great one, but he was pediatric so I only got to see him for a little while.

I also have the adrenaline problems and the panic (I started having panic attacks at 8, when all this started. It was horrible, and I only recently got over them with the help of an amazing therapist at my school), but I mostly have that under control now.

Did he have any advice about things like getting exercise even when you're really tired? That's my major problem. I just can't force myself to go do something active, and if I do, I end up feeling really sick or inordinately injured afterwards.

1234lbsgone

I have to get out of class now. I'll be back later on when I get home. Feel free to add me if you want.

1234lbsgone

Oh man...I wish I had your doctor. I had a really great one, but he was pediatric so I only got to see him for a little while.

I also have the adrenaline problems and the panic (I started having panic attacks at 8, when all this started. It was horrible, and I only recently got over them with the help of an amazing therapist at my school), but I mostly have that under control now.

Did he have any advice about things like getting exercise even when you're really tired? That's my major problem. I just can't force myself to go do something active, and if I do, I end up feeling really sick or inordinately injured afterwards.

When I first went to see this guy, my eating habits were impeccable. I had been gaining so much weight and the regular doctors I was seeing insisted that there was no reason for me to gain weight unless I was eating too much. I have been battling anorexia my whole life so what they accused me of was irrational. I took it personally and was researching diet and logging everything on here. By the time I got to him, I was practically a nutritionist. I printed months worth of reports from here and was dillegent about logging everything. I truly believe that that is the main reason he treated me the way he did and as aggresively as he did. Because I was practically insane with information by then from being misdiagnosed so many times.

As far as energy, combining the almost perfect diet with the Cytomel, I had energy within the first month. I felt like a new person. I can't even describe the difference. It was like all of a sudden, I came to life. The more I moved, the better I felt. The better I felt, the more I did. The more I did, the the more I moved. It took time and I have a tendency to go too far and then crash. So I had to learn balance. He recommended waking up and exercizing for 30 minutes. Exercize of any kind at first, no matter how easy. Even just 15 minutes to start. Just to get into the habit. Plus, he recommended first taking the cytomel as soon as I wake up, then working out, THEN eating a big breakfast and never going longer than 4-5 hours without eating something. I swear, it was more habit than medicine that has helped me. He said that working large muscle groups, like the thighs, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, released a specific hormone that did something spectacular for energy and metabolism throughout the day. (I don't remember the details, but regardless, the habit was the clencher.)

I understand what you are describing EXACTLY! It's a horrible feeling. When you crash, you crash hard and it's hard to even move. It messes with your head. On top of it being physically debillitating, its emotionally crippling. I want to hug you so bad right now because I remember that clear as day. Please just know that I doesn't have to last forever. You can get past it, but you need a good foundation. Once you get that, it's a much smoother ride. Anything you want to know, just ask. I want to watch you succeed!

rhichi

Thank you for all your encouragement. I really hope that you've been able to overcome your anorexia issues with your doctor's help.

How do you do exercise before eating? I'm always exhausted and nauseous when I first wake up for some reason (perpetual morning sickness!) so I don't know how I would be able to do any sort of workout before breakfast. What kind of exercise did he suggest?

1234lbsgone

Thank you for all your encouragement. I really hope that you've been able to overcome your anorexia issues with your doctor's help.

How do you do exercise before eating? I'm always exhausted and nauseous when I first wake up for some reason (perpetual morning sickness!) so I don't know how I would be able to do any sort of workout before breakfast. What kind of exercise did he suggest?

At first I just got up and got on the stationary bike slowly. Sometimes I'd only make it 10 minutes. But once it became a habit, I was doing full videos or heading out in the morning to watch the sunrise. His recommendation was walking to running. At least walking, working up to a brisk pace. 30 minutes a day. He mainly said whatever floats your boat, just move. But walking and running were high on the list because they work those large leg muscles. I know what you mean about the morning sckness too. Even now, sometimes I just plain HATE waking up. I actually used to throw up every morning. I notice that if I eat late, I wake up sick. He said to make sure I went to bed 3 hours after my last meal so that there is nothing in my stomach. I noticed that that helped alot. I guess food digesting can mess with your sleep cycles and ertain hormones that are released while you sleep, like HGH. I know for sure, when I go to bed on an empty stomach, I wake up feeling hurgry, but not sick, and with a much more pleasant attitude. But thats just my experience, I know alot of people who don't agree.

rhichi

Huh, I always knew that I couldn't eat an hour before sleep. If I do, I can't sleep and I get really panicked in bed. I'm going to try expanding that to three hours and see if that helps my mornings. The major problem is that sometimes I get really hungry about an hour or so before bed sometimes. I might not be able to go to sleep just yet, or even if I do, my hunger will keep me up. Any suggestions for that situation? I tried eating lettuce and cucumbers and small fruit and things like that, you know, mainly quick burning foods, but they didn't fill me up enough.

maryannmiclat

I have PCOS so I know what you are going through. My doctor had me go on a low carb diet, but that never worked for me. He also put me on Metformin... I am not a diabetic plus the medicine made me sick so I quit taking it. Several months ago I toyed with eating mostly a vegan based diet with as much organic as I could, I noticed a HUGE change in my symptoms. Also, I went to the doctor for an ultra sound and my cysts we almost gone. I've gone back to eating animal products (I needed protein from things other than beans, nuts and tofu) anyway, when I eat chicken I try to buy organic, if I want milk I buy almond milk. Just from trying all of that, I think that by cutting out the foods that have hormones added to them kept the cyst from growing. Maybe its all in my head, but I haven't had any problems with my PCOS in months. I just haven't had great success with weight loss. hope this helps.

1234lbsgone

Huh, I always knew that I couldn't eat an hour before sleep. If I do, I can't sleep and I get really panicked in bed. I'm going to try expanding that to three hours and see if that helps my mornings. The major problem is that sometimes I get really hungry about an hour or so before bed sometimes. I might not be able to go to sleep just yet, or even if I do, my hunger will keep me up. Any suggestions for that situation? I tried eating lettuce and cucumbers and small fruit and things like that, you know, mainly quick burning foods, but they didn't fill me up enough.

It kind of goes back into the habit of things. I try to eat more calories in the morning, less at lunch, and even less at dinner. But I eat more carbs in the morning and more fat in the evening. I don't know if there is any solid research to all that, but it seems to keep me on an even keel all day long. I also drink half my bodyweight in ounces of water, more in the evening. Its a habit, but now that I think of it, its probably keeping me from feeling hungry at night. Sometimes thirst is confused by the body for hunger.

rhichi

That all makes a lot of sense. I definitely try to drink at least my 8 cups of water a day, and I usually go over a bit. It makes a big difference, especially in the summer. If I go under, my body notices and the next day I have really bad water retention.

This morning my fiance got up and walked my dad's dog for a half hour. When I got back, we both noticed that we were actually hungry, not just awake and thinking we should eat something. We're going to try and keep up that exercise after waking up, so thanks for the tip!