If what you're doing is working - ignore this.

JoniBologna

What you really need to ask yourself (not some member who thinks they're an expert on your dietary needs): Is never eating a carb or fruit again sustainable for you? If so, great. If not, where will you be then?

I think this is where the answer is. Some people just can't maintain certain changes, and it won't do them any good if they can't. Better to maintain a diet with junk in moderation, than to drop all the weight and then give up and gorge themselves on everything they shouldn't have. But I agree, low carb-sugar is better for you.

I agree. Low carb and low sugar = good. No carb and no sugar = unsustainable for the majority of us. Let's be realistic here.

stevemcknight

I agree with most of what you said, although the research on fruit being bad is wanting. I'm never going to be 100% Paleo/primal, largely because of 3 things:
-popcorn
-corn tortillas
- rice
But I do try to limit them. I had to give up wheat and most dairy secondary to an intolerance so I'm not in a rush to toss out the rest anytime soon. However, it's probably the most successful (although perhaps the most difficult) lifestyle change one can make.

I've read a rather insane amount of research on glucose/fructose and just didn't want to sit here and type for the next 8 hours

There's a great - however, long video on fructose that is scientifically sound here: Again - listen. Some fruit when not in a big weight loss mode isn't a terrible thing! In fact, I eat some fruit - but just to be clear - I'm talking to folks who are trying to lose weight. Fruit in that case isn't helping out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

stevemcknight

I think there's also something to be said for being smarter about /which/ carbs you eat more of...

Which carbs? Glucose or Fructose?

stevemcknight

I love the sound of your article. However, I despise veggies. Well most anyway. The only veggies I like are broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, and celery. That's not a lot and I don't think I could live off just those. Not too mention I'm not the biggest fan of meats. I don't like baked chicken or fish. I can stand a super small steak though once in awhile. So I'm sort of stuck at this road. I don't eat junk food very often. I don't even eat fast food very often. I don't drink sodas or binge on anything. Yet, I'm still stuck. How does someone get over the veggie and meat part if they don't like it?

There are ways around it - there's a pretty good veggie replacement shake called shakeology, but it has some stevia and really - I would much rather people just find ways to cook veggies that are good. Honestly, I don't love love love them. I just eat them because it's fuel and I know it's important. I think I look at it like taking vitamins, because...well, it's taking vitamins.

howardrw

When I started my dieting, I started with a low carb diet eating just 20g of carbs or less.
That seem work great for and I stayed on this type of diet for about 4 to 7 months before I started to learn more about all of the food groups.
I started learning more about the veggie and fruits that I wasn't eating at the time.
After 7 months, I started including more fruits and other things that I wasn't including due to my low carb diet at the time.
Now I really don't pay any attention to how many carbs that I eat, I just try and make sure that they are the good carb.
I would say that a low carb type diet is a great way to start a diet, but as a person gets to know their body and the food groups you may want to explore other diet methods or create your own diet plan. (That is what I have done, created my own diet plan).

So I think what you stated are good, but in the end what may work for you or somebody else, may not work for others.

Overall any diet can work if you stick with it and learn more about what you are putting into you body and workout at least 3 times a week for about 30 minutes or more.

Take care and keep the FAITH................

stevemcknight

When I started my dieting, I started with a low carb diet eating just 20g of carbs or less.
That seem work great for and I stayed on this type of diet for about 4 to 7 months before I started to learn more about all of the food groups.
I started learning more about the veggie and fruits that I wasn't eating at the time.
After 7 months, I started including more fruits and other things that I wasn't including due to my low carb diet at the time.
Now I really don't pay any attention to how many carbs that I eat, I just try and make sure that they are the good carb.
I would say that a low carb type diet is a great way to start a diet, but as a person gets to know their body and the food groups you may want to explore other diet methods or create your own diet plan. (That is what I have done, created my own diet plan).

So I think what you stated are good, but in the end what may work for you or somebody else, may not work for others.

Overall any diet can work if you stick with it and learn more about what you are putting into you body and workout at least 3 times a week for about 30 minutes or more.

Take care and keep the FAITH................

well... yeah!

And thus the title of the post.

cutmd

I agree with most of what you said, although the research on fruit being bad is wanting. I'm never going to be 100% Paleo/primal, largely because of 3 things:
-popcorn
-corn tortillas
- rice
But I do try to limit them. I had to give up wheat and most dairy secondary to an intolerance so I'm not in a rush to toss out the rest anytime soon. However, it's probably the most successful (although perhaps the most difficult) lifestyle change one can make.

I've read a rather insane amount of research on glucose/fructose and just didn't want to sit here and type for the next 8 hours

There's a great - however, long video on fructose that is scientifically sound here: Again - listen. Some fruit when not in a big weight loss mode isn't a terrible thing! In fact, I eat some fruit - but just to be clear - I'm talking to folks who are trying to lose weight. Fruit in that case isn't helping out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but Lustig is largely concerned with table sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and fruit juice, not whole fruits. I am going to watch his whole video but from the literature it seems clear that purified fructose, not whole fruit, is the villain. I challenge anyone to get fat off of a Paleo or primal diet, both of which incorporate fruit along with the proteins, fats, and veggies. I think whole fruit can help a lot of people lose weight because it can satisfy a sweet tooth while providing filling fiber

The medical community really doesn't have the knowledge or the right to malign fruit at this stage, just sugar and fructose isolates. Michael Pollan follows similar food rules to yours but he acknowledges we can't make blanket statement about foods based on research done on derivatives. Most anti-fruit research was done by force feeding rats a fructose drink, not by a randomized controlled trial comparing similar distributions of the population who ate/did not eat an apple or two a day.

Otherwise, again, I think your suggestions are great but as a medical professional I can't leave the fruit point be

An article summarizing Lustig's recs, including fruit: http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2011/03/sugar.html

A research trial showing a positive association between fruit and weight loss:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022464
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19083413

deeharley

So, these may be stupid questions, but I'm going to ask anyway.

What is a vegetable? Potatoes? Tomatoes? Cucumbers? Because a lot of what we call vegetables are technically fruit, and I'm wondering if that makes a difference.

Did you go cold turkey? One day, you were eating American and the next Paleo?

MFP seems to be very much about calories? If you're not concerned with calories, what do you track on MFP?

I might think of more questions later, but this will get me started. Thanks

stevemcknight

I agree with most of what you said, although the research on fruit being bad is wanting. I'm never going to be 100% Paleo/primal, largely because of 3 things:
-popcorn
-corn tortillas
- rice
But I do try to limit them. I had to give up wheat and most dairy secondary to an intolerance so I'm not in a rush to toss out the rest anytime soon. However, it's probably the most successful (although perhaps the most difficult) lifestyle change one can make.

I've read a rather insane amount of research on glucose/fructose and just didn't want to sit here and type for the next 8 hours

There's a great - however, long video on fructose that is scientifically sound here: Again - listen. Some fruit when not in a big weight loss mode isn't a terrible thing! In fact, I eat some fruit - but just to be clear - I'm talking to folks who are trying to lose weight. Fruit in that case isn't helping out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but Lustig is largely concerned with table sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and fruit juice, not whole fruits. I am going to watch his whole video but from the literature it seems clear that purified fructose, not whole fruit, is the villain. I challenge anyone to get fat off of a Paleo or primal diet, both of which incorporate fruit along with the proteins, fats, and veggies. I think whole fruit can help a lot of people lose weight because it can satisfy a sweet tooth while providing filling fiber

The medical community really doesn't have the knowledge or the right to malign fruit at this stage, just sugar and fructose isolates. Michael Pollan follows similar food rules to yours but he acknowledges we can't make blanket statement about foods based on research done on derivatives. Most anti-fruit research was done by force feeding rats a fructose drink, not by a randomized controlled trial comparing similar distributions of the population who ate/did not eat an apple or two a day.

Otherwise, again, I think your suggestions are great but as a medical professional I can't leave the fruit point be

An article summarizing Lustig's recs, including fruit: http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2011/03/sugar.html

A research trial showing a positive association between fruit and weight loss:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022464
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19083413

I actually completely agree with you here. I advise my clients while in weight loss mode to cut it for now, then feel free to add it in again later. The problem is more about binging and habits than the rather moderate amount of fructose in fruit. Once the sugar hits, it is really easy to allow the hormones to take control and basically auto-pilot you to the ice cream store

Some people would say that eating moderate grains is ok for weight loss as well. Some people can lose weight eating a few pop-tarts a day, but I'm not really talking to them. I'll have fruit myself from time to time now, but as a former binge eater, I know that I could easily eat several thousand calories of grapes or watermelon. It's better for me to generally stay away, then use it as a treat.

sleepytexan

you know, I have heard this so frequently, however, I must be an exception to the rule.

Granted, I have pretty well maintained my current weight, give or take 5 lbs. most of my adult life with the exception of childbirth, however, earlier in the year I did a stint on a yeast-free diet in order to try to eliminate yeast in the gut, which had been causing all manner of digestive issues for several years.

Wow. talk about restrictive. No carb and even less. On the one hand, after 8 weeks, I feel that I kicked the yeast, however I actually GAINED weight on a no-carb diet. yes it's true. Everywhere I looked (online and in books and talking to others who have gone yeast-free), people lost weight--typically a lot of weight -- as a side effect of the regime. Not me. +5. ridiculous.

Anyway, do what works. Cheers!

stevemcknight

So, these may be stupid questions, but I'm going to ask anyway.

What is a vegetable? Potatoes? Tomatoes? Cucumbers? Because a lot of what we call vegetables are technically fruit, and I'm wondering if that makes a difference.

Did you go cold turkey? One day, you were eating American and the next Paleo?

MFP seems to be very much about calories? If you're not concerned with calories, what do you track on MFP?

I might think of more questions later, but this will get me started. Thanks

Yes - you're right on that. So many people don't know that tomatoes are fruits. Look, the line here isn't cut in stone. Use judgement. As long as you're not mistaking carrot cake for a veggie, you're going to be fine.

I tried the S.A.D. for a couple years and just couldn't stop binging once the sugar hit. It was a long, slow transition to Paleo. In fact, I was eating Paleo mostly before I even knew what it was.

I do track calories, mostly for my own personal records and to watch trends. I just don't worry about them. If I go 2,000 one day, and 4,000 the next, I don't get stressed at all. It's not worth the Cortisol.

When it comes down to it - it just makes sense to me. If you don't eat stuff that isn't put in a box, you're probably going to be ok.

chrisdavey

I know that I could easily eat several thousand calories of grapes or watermelon. It's better for me to generally stay away, then use it as a treat.

that would be a SERIOUS amount of grapes or watermelons! You ever thought about eating contests?

_Aimée_

I know you've told me to ignore it, but heres my 2 cents, I have a big problem with other dieters saying their way is the best way. It works for you - great, but 'don't give you opinion if you have an alternative one - this is what will work for you' is a bit iffy mate. Why is it also that I find the people most concerned about others following their diet is the no/low carb bods?

Just because you don't have the will power not to binge, doesn't mean other people don't. If I'm brutally honest I think its childish that you cannot control yourself. I kind of see it as theres no mummy to tell you when to stop so you just dont have it at all. I think people should be encouraged to learn how to control binges, not be given the impression its hopeless. Taste is so pleasurable, it should be enjoyed. Meat and veg are nice but how utterly boring to have that everyday. It would be like hearing the same song day in day out. No chocolate is not healthy even in moderation, but neither are alot of other things in life we do that are pleasurable. We *kitten* risk and weigh up those risky consequences.

Angel1066

bump

mags2504

bump

stevemcknight

I know you've told me to ignore it, but heres my 2 cents, I have a big problem with other dieters saying their way is the best way. It works for you - great, but 'don't give you opinion if you have an alternative one - this is what will work for you' is a bit iffy mate. Why is it also that I find the people most concerned about others following their diet is the no/low carb bods?

Just because you don't have the will power not to binge, doesn't mean other people don't. If I'm brutally honest I think its childish that you cannot control yourself. I kind of see it as theres no mummy to tell you when to stop so you just dont have it at all. I think people should be encouraged to learn how to control binges, not be given the impression its hopeless. Taste is so pleasurable, it should be enjoyed. Meat and veg are nice but how utterly boring to have that everyday. It would be like hearing the same song day in day out. No chocolate is not healthy even in moderation, but neither are alot of other things in life we do that are pleasurable. We *kitten* risk and weigh up those risky consequences.

God bless you for being so awesome that you don't have any sort of eating disorder. I'm so childish that I've been in therapy for 3 years for mine. Sadly my mummy isn't around, so I struggle with eating on a daily basis, as do many people who are here. I'm going to copy and paste your response on drug and alcohol abuse websites for them to fully understand how utterly childish their addictions are as well.

It's funny that you called me out for not offering alternatives to the paleo approach, when you even allude to the TITLE OF THE POST saying, ignore it if you have a plan that's working. I'm offing up what has worked for me for well over a year now as help for someone who's in a similar situation.

This is the exact reason why I have quit the boards before in the past, and the reason why I am quitting again now. I assume you are a therapist with the sound advice of how to end B.E.D. I should have just tried getting a little encouragement years ago, and I'd be fine now.

Good night.

AshinAms

I agree 100% with the advice to just stay away from the stuff that triggers you into binging - for some it''s even a bit of fruit, for others, like me, it''s anything that is refined carbs, fat and sugar in the same package - like chocolate biscuits! I can kid myself that I will only have one but invariably there is a spiral. McDonalds is actually ok for me, but then I stick to the salads and perhaps the burger patty.

Whether it''s paleo, low carb/no carb, counting calories, everything in moderation, etc the trick is to find what works for you personally, and (as in my case) if that''s just saying no to processed food, then so be it! I try and eat food that knows where it came from.

Tracking calories is still key though, because it is still possible to eat too much, even if choices are limited. Also, I remember someone telling me that you can lose weight on 1200 calories of McDonalds a day but your body won''t thank you for it!

I have the most trouble when we visit my boyfriend''s parents. There is absolutely nothing I can eat in their home. Everything is processed, from the freezer, with sodium etc through the roof. I take plain yoghurt and hope for fruit & veg, but usually end up with buffalo wings And then I get told - well, you are still fat so why do you care what you eat!?!

I reckon it''s more complex to try and explain these types of food choices to people than it is to come out as an alcoholic!

myofibril

This is the exact reason why I have quit the boards before in the past, and the reason why I am quitting again now.

Don't be soft.

Listen mate. You are clearly knowledgeable and can help posters by offering a differing viewpoint which works. It's all about providing people who are struggling with their weight options which they can choose from and which plays to their strengths. For some people that may be following a paleo/primal approach. For some it maybe an Ornish diet. For some it maybe the everything in moderation approach.

Taking away options is not the way forward. Many diets will work - it's just some will be more efficient for an individual to reach their goals given their individual characteristics than others. Credible viewpoints and debate is vital so that an individual considers all potential avenues and can make informed decisions.

ps: of curiousity, if I try your approach for a month and it doesn't work will you also provide the airfare so I can fly to Pittsburgh and kick you in the nuts?

Noctuary

Everyone take a step back. Go to your kitchen. Grab your candy bar and eat it. Then come back and post. Re fing lax.

Noctuary

Everyone take a step back. Go to your kitchen. Grab your candy bar and eat it. Then come back and post. Re fing lax.