Carbs - friend or foe?

jmula

depends on what your goals are. For body building, or just wanting to bulk up a bit, going 11 hrs without protein is not recommended. and it does hinder muscle gains. as opposed to eating carbs before bed time.

Really? I'd love to hear where you got that information from.

leangains.com

by the look of this guys phsyque, i would say he knows his stuff. it's a guide to protein suppliments. which to use, and when. Towards the end he explains why to use protein before bed (briefly, but it's explained.
http://blog.bodybuilding.com/thenaturalone1ky/2008/07/06/the_best_type_of_protein/

mynameisuntz

I think everyone may be different. But from my personal experience, I have had A TON more energy and have lost a lot of fat and less muscle since I have gone low carb (about 75g/day). Also, every single person I have spoken with that has gotten into extremely good shape has been on low carb - less than 100g/day. I think you would do well with less than 100g a day but that is my own personal opinion and experience. Some people may be different. However, I was a vegetarian for 4 years up until about 1 month ago. I ate about 150g of carbs a day and about 45g of protein. I tried SO MANY different things over those 4 years and was constantly restricted because of the carbs, even when I would workout for 3 hours doing workouts that should have been very effective. It was a waste of time. I didn't want to eat meat again but gave in solely to go low carb and it has changed my life already. I have lost weight without the crazy workouts and have a ton more energy. I also feel far more muscular and am looking much more toned. I cut bread and pasta out completely ---- I used to only eat whole wheat now I don't eat it at all, and when I do I drag and feel bloated. I highly suggest below 100g of carbs a day.

You ate a diet of 150g carbs + 45g protein, which equates to a mere 900 calories, while working out for 3 hours and you felt tired...and that surprises you?

For that kind of activity you should have been eating way more, and I'm going to assume your fat was not above 50g, meaning you were at ~1,400 calories per day?

I'm confused.

mynameisuntz

by the look of this guys phsyque, i would say he knows his stuff. it's a guide to protein suppliments. which to use, and when. Towards the end he explains why to use protein before bed (briefly, but it's explained.
http://blog.bodybuilding.com/thenaturalone1ky/2008/07/06/the_best_type_of_protein/

You think he's right solely based on how he looks? Do you question WHERE he got that information?

How about this guy? http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/PBateman2b2w/

He fasts for 16 hours per day, eating all of his calories in an 8 hour window every single day.

tryinghard2012

Your body including vital organs like your brain, liver and heart feed off of carbs! It's a necessity!

I enjoy carbs, and have lost a considerable amount of weight.

jmula

How about this guy? http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/PBateman2b2w/


Oh, and why am I not surprised you picked this particular guy?

brit49

low carbs for me!

heathermnrd

i would also recommend talking to your dr...especially if your on any meds. Im on one and my dr told me i have to be really careful w/ carbs and go more for protein to avoid gaining weight cuz they make me eat like a crazy woman...she said as long as it was good protein i should be ok weight wise...

just a suggestion

mynameisuntz

How about this guy? http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/PBateman2b2w/

Oh, and why am I not surprised you picked this particular guy?

I don't get it? You presented anecdotal evidence, so I refuted with anecdotal evidence.

Dude, NO ONE has to eat high protein right before bed for bodybuilding goals. You don't understand. If you eat a high protein diet as is, your body is PERFECTLY FINE going 6-8 hours without protein. That's a fact of human physiology which that one person, who has opinions unfounded in science, can't negate.

You're not getting it.

marie_2454

I think it really depends on you. I lose weight a little faster if I eat low carb, but I don't eat meat except for fish, I love fruit and eat 4+ servings a day, and eating low carb makes me a bit *****y...or at least *****ier than usual :laugh: On top of that I get mood swings, which I very rarely get. I stay away from low carb diets for those reasons, but I know people that eat or have eaten low carb and did great with it and didn't notice the side effects like I did. If you're losing weight steadily now than I probably wouldn't worry about it, but if you're not losing you could try eating low carb for a few weeks? Good luck!

PaigeMcCane

I DO happen to know what a ketone body is, thanks.

And I happen to know that they supply energy to the brain during starvation and prolonged exercise. However, there is strong evidence that links diabetes to elevated ketone levels in the blood. Doesn't sound to healthy to someone, especially when a benefit of losing weight is NOT getting diabetes. Which runs in my family.

And thats the beauty of using percentages rather than saying "eat this number of grams." For example, I typically aim to eat about 55% of my diet in carbs. I eat 1200 calories a day. That is 660 calories worth of carbs, which is 165 grams because each gram of carbohydrates contributes 4 calories. And the percent fluctuation allows you to change the amounts you want to eat of each nutrient to fit your needs.

jmula

depends on what your goals are. For body building, or just wanting to bulk up a bit, going 11 hrs without protein is not recommended. and it does hinder muscle gains. as opposed to eating carbs before bed time.

Really? I'd love to hear where you got that information from.

leangains.com

http://www.livestrong.com/article/302686-protein-shakes-before-bed-and-weight-loss/

http://www.ehow.com/about_4600115_benefits-protein-shakes.html

thanks to Bing! heres a few legit souses verifying the benefit of protein before sleep, in order to help retain muscle mass.
your welcome

knittnponder

I have found through trial and error that my body has a "carb window" where I feel good and lose weight. If I go above that window I feel sluggish and slow and can't seem to lose weight very effectively. If I am too low, I have trouble concentrating and can't think clearly plus I have no energy and often get a headache. If I'm feeling inexplicably poorly i usually review what I've eaten that day and can see that I am either too high or too low. I've read all the "experts" and I know there are many opinions on the subject but mine is, figure out what your body like and do it.

My window seems to be around 100-150 grams of carbs per day. My carbs are from whole foods (whole fruits, vegetables, legumes and grains. ) My grains are truly "whole" as I mill the flour myself from the whole grain and bake the item myself. There is no white flour and while I do occasionally use sweeteners I try to keep those minimal and as unrefined as possible. (For example, if I ever sweeten a smoothie it's done with a pitted date since they are packed with nutrition and very sweet.)

I'm not afraid of any type of food with the exception of refined foods or processed foods. I try to keep those pretty minimal in my diet. For me the trick is finding a balance in what I eat, making sure that I stay in my "window" and always pair carbs with protein so I don't crash.

corpus_validum

Carbs - not necessarily a foe, but neither is it a friend.

Here's a good general article on carbs that cites several of scientists:
"A Reversal on Carbs - Fat was once the devil. Now more nutritionists are pointing accusingly at sugar and refined grains."

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-carbs-20101220,0,5464425.story

I especially liked the last analogy of the article that illustrates the human evolution as a clock and when refined carbs came into play.

mynameisuntz

http://www.livestrong.com/article/302686-protein-shakes-before-bed-and-weight-loss/

http://www.ehow.com/about_4600115_benefits-protein-shakes.html

thanks to Bing! heres a few legit souses verifying the benefit of protein before sleep, in order to help retain muscle mass.
your welcome

1) How in the heck do you accept those links as being valid or credible? Find me SCIENTIFIC research, not websites that are essentially built on opinions.
2) Neither of those links implied that bodybuilders need to consume protein every 6-8 hours.

I suggest you go back to the link I posted earlier, leangains.com, as that provides SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE and peer-reviewed research explaining how meal timing/frequency is a myth.

jmula

2) Neither of those links implied that bodybuilders need to consume protein every 6-8 hours.


I NEVER said that a body builder needed to consume protein every 6 hours! re-read the post! I said it should be eaten before bed to keep maximum growth potential during sleep. that my friend is true for "body builders"!!!!!!!!!
Cheers!

Barelmy

Generally speaking, you should avoid heavily processed food, which includes white flour, white sugar, etc, as well as ready meals, sweeteners, junk food...

In other words, as a general rule, stick to good natural (ish) foods - So, carbwise, whole grains, vegetables, etc. Beyond that, play with it.

Personally, I find that 10-15% protein, 30% fat, and 55% carbs works for me. I also find that I feel better if I fuel properly before and after exercising. For me, fuelling properly means an approximately 200 calorie meal before exercise, consisting of carbs, protein, and fat in the ratio 8-10:2:1. In other words, say I have a meal with 10g of (complete) protein (if you're not a vegan, I wouldn't worry at all about complete proteins; it doesn't take that much effort even if you are); I want 40-50g of carbs, and 5g of good fats in there, too. After exercise, it helps to have these in a form that doesn't require much effort to digest; I use either juice or a smoothie, with some hemp powder and flaxseed.

Again, this is only what works for me. I was raised on a very high-carb, high-fat diet, and never went above 145lbs. I'm fortunate enough to have no problems with gluten or insulin.

I would recommend sticking with MFPs recommended ratios (55% carbs, 15% protein, 30% fat), avoiding heavily processed foods, and seeing how you feel. If you want to try something different, there are lots of options, and lots of people to tell you about them.

mynameisuntz

The only thing I'd change in her advice is to up the protein as it has muscle-sparing effects that result in better pure fat loss.

Barelmy

wait for it......^^^^^ wait for it........^^^^^..........

The only assumption I've made in that post, without fully attributing it to being merely my experience and opinion, is to avoid overly processed foods. It'd be interesting to see someone argue against that.

Personally, I find that refined sugar gives me a horrible rush. Jittery, flushed, warm, then sleepy.><

Barelmy

The only thing I'd change in her advice is to up the protein as it has muscle-sparing effects that result in better pure fat loss.

What would you say the optimum amount of protein is? Of course, it varies person to person, but if you were to make a generalisation?

I find that most nutritionists say 10-15% is good, but, of course, I'm looking for that info as a vegan. I find omnivores tend to recommend a much higher amount, more in line with what they actually eat.

mynameisuntz

What would you say the optimum amount of protein is? Of course, it varies person to person, but if you were to make a generalisation?

I find that most nutritionists say 10-15% is good, but, of course, I'm looking for that info as a vegan. I find omnivores tend to recommend a much higher amount, more in line with what they actually eat.

I'm not a fan of ratios as they will skew numbers greatly between different intakes. Some people eat 1,200 calories per day, others eat 2,800 calories per day. To say that x% is encompassing for all, or even most, diets is a bit too general for me.

1g per pound lean body mass, ESPECIALLY for those who are active.

So for someone who is 180 pounds with 20% body fat, that would equate to 180 - (180 x .2) = 144g protein.

Nutritionists tell you what is essential rather than what is optimal. There's enough research in this day and age to suggest that the FDA requirements is not optimal. Sufficient? Yes. Optimal? No.

jcb2kds

bump

jmula

The only thing I'd change in her advice is to up the protein as it has muscle-sparing effects that result in better pure fat loss.

there is a benefit to eating protein at night, before bed to help aid in keeping muscle mass!
Oh, and theres a lot of PHD's listed at the end of the article (not advertisement)
you dont get 17.5 inch arms without doing your homework!

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/prosuper.htm

mynameisuntz

really? your wrong! I'm right! there is a benefit to eating protein at night, before bed to help aid in keeping muscle mass!
Oh, and theres a lot of PHD's listed at the end of the article (not advertisement)
again, since you do not post a pic of your phsyque, one has to guess weather you get your knowledge from real world experience, or Google.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/prosuper.htm

You're citing me a website run by a guy who is trying to sell you products.

mapexdrummer69

there is a benefit to eating protein at night, before bed to help aid in keeping muscle mass!
Oh, and theres a lot of PHD's listed at the end of the article (not advertisement)
you dont get 17.5 inch arms without doing your homework!

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/prosuper.htm

Not picking a fight by any means, but I'd like to point out that correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone achieves results from doing a certain thing, that does not mean that it was necessary.


Meal size, timing, and frequency are largely irrelevant in the context of proper daily nutrition. Basing one's diet off of anecdotal results is not the way to go about it.

jmula

Not picking a fight by any means, but I'd like to point out that correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone achieves results from doing a certain thing, that does not mean that it was necessary.


true. But it does not make them wrong either. If it works for them, then it in fact does work. Does it not?
And that is what started the whole episode. my statement of a benefit to me. which I suggested someone try. thats it.
I didn't come on here to get my post put under a microscope because of it.
it's rude, and downright irritating.
Now if I asked for an opinion, by all means, go right ahead. I have no problem with that.

ladybarometer

I eat them, but I try to stay with whole grains.

mapexdrummer69

Not picking a fight by any means, but I'd like to point out that correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone achieves results from doing a certain thing, that does not mean that it was necessary.


true. But it does not make them wrong either. If it works for them, then it in fact does work. Does it not?
And that is what started the whole episode. my statement of a benefit to me. which I suggested someone try. thats it.
I didn't come on here to get my post put under a microscope because of it.
it's rude, and downright irritating.
Now if I asked for an opinion, by all means, go right ahead. I have no problem with that.

Works, yes. Necessary or superior to eating every bit of your daily protein 6 hours before bed, no.



Meal and nutrient timing come down to nothing but personal preference and convenience, which are very important in adhering to a diet.

mynameisuntz

Ready for some knowledge?

"Only in prolonged fasting does protein catabolism become an issue. This happens when stored liver glycogen becomes depleted. In order to maintain blood glucose, conversion of amino acids into glucose must occur (DNG: de novo glucogenesis). This happens gradually and if amino acids are not available from food, protein must be taken from bodily stores such as muscle. Cahill looked at the contribution of amino acids to DNG after a 100 gram glucose load. He found that amino acids from muscle contributed 50% to glucose maintenance after 16 hours and almost 100% after 28 hours (when stored liver glycogen was fully depleted). Obviously, for someone who eats a high protein meal before fasting, this is a moot point as you will have plenty of aminos available from food during the fast."

Feed people a more proper protein intake, and the issue of free amino acids would cease to exist. INTERESTING. The referenced Cahill article is titled: "Amino acid metabolism during prolonged starvation"

Interestingly there's another study done by Stote et al. titled "A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults." where participants ate 3 meals compared to 1 meal per day. The 1 meal per day group saw greater losses in fat with no significant reduction in lean body mass.

Also interesting, right?

mynameisuntz

true. But it does not make them wrong either. If it works for them, then it in fact does work. Does it not?
And that is what started the whole episode. my statement of a benefit to me. which I suggested someone try. thats it.
I didn't come on here to get my post put under a microscope because of it.
it's rude, and downright irritating.
Now if I asked for an opinion, by all means, go right ahead. I have no problem with that.

Wrong. You implied that having protein before sleeping for 6-8 hours was necessary to the goals of a bodybuilder. I am telling you that is NOT the case, and your body is no exception.

chrisdavey

Interesting study re carb timing and fat loss
http://www.leangains.com/2011/06/is-late-night-eating-better-for-fat.html



I just go by the rule that you have to earn your carbs. They are used as fuel for your body (working out e.g.). Sit on your *kitten* all day and do nothing, how much additional energy is required? And your body can utilise other sources for fuel if required.

I think the answer is "it depends".
How much weight do you have to lose?
Are you consuming adequate protein?
Are you exercising?
Are you insulin resistant? (common in obese people)

And at the end of the day, I treat all of this as experimental. Stick with MFP macros for a bit and hit your cal targets. Analyse fat loss. Drop the carbs a bit and up the fat (assuming adequate protein previously) and reassess the changes. Note that 1g carbs will hold 3-4g of water so there will be short term fluctuations which is where photos, measurements, skinfold readings come into it.