paleo diet for those who binge(d)? also paleo+running?

Schwiggity

I'm a habitual binge eater, and I probably would go as far to say that it is a compulsion. I really don't want to do OA, but I know a lot of people who do, cut out grains, sugars, and fried foods, and that sounds a lot like a paleo diet to me. I'm pretty wary of cutting out these things completely, but lately my binges have been coming back more frequently, so I'm looking at any option I can. What are the macro ratios also?

Also, I'm wondering if there's any paleo runners. I want to know about if you saw any decrease in performance when switching to this type of eating habit and what you do about things like run nutrition (would these products be considered not allowable on a paleo diet?)

I've looked around on Google, but every website seems to be trying to sell me something, so I was hoping I could get some info from those who do it first hand.

Arizona_JR

bumping this cause I'm curious too.

TheGoblinRoad

I don't do paleo.

But I just learned from reading Eat to Live about how a lot of the foods we eat, once the foods are digested, we start feeling kind of lousy and want more food so we stop feeling lousy. Eating 90% plant-based foods, the cycle is broken and we won't feel that way. I've only been doing this since last Friday, but I think it all makes sense.

Rather than us trying to resolve the damage, we might fix the cause.

TheGoblinRoad

good success stories:

http://www.drfuhrman.com/success/success.aspx

Schwiggity

bump

Arizona_JR

Since you can get a lot of great complex carbs from veggies (especially potatoes & yams), and simple sugars from fruits, I don't see why it should be a problem eating a paleo diet for running.

Schwiggity

Since you can get a lot of great complex carbs from veggies (especially potatoes & yams), and simple sugars from fruits, I don't see why it should be a problem eating a paleo diet for running.

Paleo diet says no potatoes, dairy, beans, or lentils from what I'm reading.

Arizona_JR

I'll have to check into it. I thought Paleo meant anything that can be eaten without processing. Potatoes can be eaten raw or thrown on the fire obviously.

Which book are you referring to? I've got the Primal Blueprint, Neanderthin, and The Paleo Diet for Athletes. I'll have to dig back through them and check on that. It's been a couple years since I stuck close to the rules so I may be mistaken.

Schwiggity

Just what I came up with a google search. However, now I see conflicting statements on other sites.

thegoodner

Paleo = no dairy, beans, potatoes, corn, lentils, grains
Primal = all the above but allows full fat dairy

Both advocate clean eating and both allow sweet potatoes, Vegs, fruit, nuts, eggs, etc

Check out Marksdailyapple.com. mark sisson was a marathoner and gives a ton of free info on his site. To lose weight keep carbs below 100 and eat .7-1 g of protein per lean body mass weight. Fill in the rest of your calories with healthy fats! I dont crave or binge on carbs anymore. It was an addiction for me that I m in recovery from now: )

Add me if you'd like!

Arizona_JR

Paleo = no dairy, beans, potatoes, corn, lentils, grains
Primal = all the above but allows full fat dairy

Both advocate clean eating and both allow sweet potatoes, Vegs, fruit, nuts, eggs, etc

Check out Marksdailyapple.com. mark sisson was a marathoner and gives a ton of free info on his site. To lose weight keep carbs below 100 and eat .7-1 g of protein per lean body mass weight. Fill in the rest of your calories with healthy fats! I dont crave or binge on carbs anymore. It was an addiction for me that I m in recovery from now: )

Add me if you'd like!

I always figured sweet potatoes were still potatoes, no?

Schwiggity

The biggest wtf I'm finding is that it promotes a large consumption of saturated fats which I can't wrap my head around. I see all of the population studies trying to be quoted, but it just is really uneasy and not even very appetizing honestly.

thegoodner

Sweet potatoes offer more nutritionally and have a lower glycemic index response I believe. Both paleo and primal work on a premise of reducing insulin response. Today's white potatoes are largely modified from their original size and nutritional content. I'm avoiding both because I'm one month in and have some major ground to cover, but my serious primal athlete friends use sweet potatoes post workout for recovery. But the great thing about both versions is that if you give 100% of your effort 80% of the time, the other 20% where you eat something off plan wont derail you or set you back. Its not a religion...just an outline for eating. It is really meant to free you from weighing, measuring, and counting once you get the hang of it!

thegoodner

You should watch the movie Fat Head on hulu or Netflix. Fats rich in omega 3s are healthy for you, lower triclycerides, and your body and brain need them. In fact your body prefers to burn fat over carbs. Its more efficient. Fat does not make you fat ironically. And trust me, it is tasty. Most of my fat comes from grass fed beef, coconut oil, avocados, and heavy cream in my now and then coffee or scrambled eggs. Nuts too! I'm not shoveling lard by the spoonful. But nitrate free uncured Bacon? You bet! And I haven't updated my weight in a while, but 20 pounds in six weeks without hunger or feeling deprived with amazing energy I will take.

katschi

From Robb Wolf's website ...

Athletics
The needs of athletes vary greatly depending upon one’s sport and level of activity. The needs of a marathon runner are quite different from those of boxer or Olympic Weightlifter. Despite these different needs all athletes share a few things:

Means of optimizing performance
Methods for improving recovery
The Paleo diet is the perfect solution for both performance and recovery. Lean protein sources such as chicken, lean beef, turkey, pork loin and sea food are ergogenic (performance enhancing) because of the large amount of Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAA’s) which have been proven to be crucial in rapid recovery after hard training, both for strength and endurance athletes. So all of your meals will start with 4-8 oz of lean proteins.

The next piece of customization is dependant upon the nature of your sport. High-intensity aerobic or anaerobic sports such as soccer, boxing, wrestling, mixed martial arts or sprint interval training (running, biking, swimming, rowing) should take advantage of a period of time post workout when the body is primed for recovery. A meal of 4-8 oz of lean protein PLUS 50-100g of nutritious, Paleo friendly carbohydrate such as yams, sweet potatoes, squash or fruit should be consumed within 30 min post workout to optimize repair of muscle tissue and to ensure muscle glycogen is optimally replenished. The amount of carbohydrate will vary based on how large you are and the volume and intensity of your training. The larger you are or the harder/longer the training, the more carbohydrate you will GENERALLY need to optimize recovery. Some athletes may find they require 2 protein+carbohydrate meals to optimize recovery from particularly grueling work or multi-session training days. Subsequent meals should be built around lean protein, multi-colored, low carbohydrate density vegetables and good fats. Here is a sample meal plan and some further reading for determining your exact needs. Please read the book The Paleo Diet for Athletes by Prof. Loren Cordain and world renowned triathlon coach Joe Friel for more information on endurance specific Paleo Nutrition.

For sprinters, and other power athletes most meals should be built around lean proteins, a variety of low carbohydrate density vegetables and liberal use of good fats. Power athletes may find benefit from a higher intake from Paleo friendly carbs such as yams, sweet potatoes and fruit once or twice per week. This is called a “cyclical-low carbohydrate” diet and has been enormously popular with track and field athletes, football players, Olympic weightlifters and other athletes who place a premium on strength, power and exceptionally low body fat levels. Doctor Mauro Di-Pasquale is the world authority on this way of eating and we highly recommend you read his work for further information. To see the best possible performance and body composition, the power athlete should eat at least 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight per day. Here are a few sample meals and resources to get you going.

Sample Meal Plan: The Endurance Athlete
Let’s assume an early run, bike or swim interval session. Depending upon your preferences you may opt to train on an empty stomach. If you prefer a small snack before training here is a good way to start your day:

Pre-training Snack:

2 oz chicken OR 2 scrambled eggs

1/2 to 1/4 honey dew melon OR 1 cup of blueberries.

Post Training Breakfast: (best if consumed within 30 min of training)

Salmon scramble, 1/2 honey dew or rock melon+1 cup of blueberries.

OR

Grilled salmon, sweet potato hash browns with olive oil and cinnamon.

Lunch:

Grass fed ground beef marinara over baked spaghetti squash.

Snack:

Can of sardines, medium orange, hand full of almonds.

Dinner:

Baked Halibut, large Artichoke. Garlic-pistachio “pesto” for the halibut and as a dipping sauce for the artichoke.

Sample Meal Plan: The Power Athlete
Breakfast:

4-6 egg omelet with 1 whole avocado. 1/2 cup blue berries.

Pre-workout snack:

2-4 oz grilled chicken, handful of almonds or macadamias.

Post-workout meal:

6-8 oz grilled salmon, asparagus, mushroom, bamboo shoot, coconut milk curry.

Snack:

Canned salmon salad with olive oil, avocado, tomatoes and red onion.

Dinner:

Grilled grass fed Rib eye with grilled shrimp. Large mixed salad with greens, red onions and ginger sesame dressing.

Schwiggity

Thank you katschi. I was looking for something like that.

@thegoodner: I thought omega-3's were only contained in poly and mono unsaturated fats.

thegoodner

It is more than just consumption of omega 3's....I should be more clear. It is also about ratio of 3 to 6. perfect ratios of 3 &6 are found in grass fed animal products and fish. Almonds and walnuts and EVOO and coconut oil are also highly used on the plan. Standard diets with lower quality beef have ratios of omega 6 that are way to high. You can supplement with omega 3 and get by, but that's why paleo calls for lean meat (leaner meat has less omega 6 and potential environmental toxins) and primal calls for grass fed animal products but is not specific about lean cuts.

Schwiggity

It is more than just consumption of omega 3's....I should be more clear. It is also about ratio of 3 to 6. perfect ratios of 3 &6 are found in grass fed animal products and fish. Almonds and walnuts and EVOO and coconut oil are also highly used on the plan. Standard diets with lower quality beef have ratios of omega 6 that are way to high. You can supplement with omega 3 and get by, but that's why paleo calls for lean meat (leaner meat has less omega 6 and potential environmental toxins) and primal calls for grass fed animal products but is not specific about lean cuts.

The main problem is the availability and cost of grass-fed and wild caught meats/fish to me. I already am supplementing omega-3's per doctor's order. So would that mean eating leaner cuts of grain-fed meats/farmed fish be acceptable?

RangerSteve

I used to do triathlons when I was on the paleo diet. I didn't see any reduction in performance whatsoever. I didn't do low carb/paleo like a lot of people seem to do though. Fruits were in every meal I ate and mango was my best friend. I was down into single digit body fat while doing this without measuring my calories at all. (body fat test inside a bod pod)

If you're really worried about binge eating, you might be restricting too many things from your diet and your body is trying to get around it. You should eat foods you enjoy, even when dieting. I mentioned in another thread that I just ate 800 calories worth of Ben and Jerrys today. I left room for it and I destroyed the entire pint of that stuff. It was amazing. If you want to binge, adjust your macro levels for it and actually enjoy yourself without feeling guilty.

If you're absolutely impossible to control with binge eating, maybe you should cut out all the crappy food so you start to forget what it tastes like. I really enjoy donuts but it's been so long since I've had one, I don't even remember what they taste like anymore. Now I don't miss them. It could work for you. Best of luck.

Schwiggity

If you're absolutely impossible to control with binge eating, maybe you should cut out all the crappy food so you start to forget what it tastes like. I really enjoy donuts but it's been so long since I've had one, I don't even remember what they taste like anymore. Now I don't miss them. It could work for you. Best of luck.

That's what I'm aiming for, and I know people who went to OA and took that mentality, and it's worked for them. I've done the "all things in moderation" eating, and it has worked for me, but I still can't break the binge and shame cycle, and it's not because I have an overly restrictive diet (quite the opposite). I obviously have some emotional/mental things to work on, but I think I need to adopt the same mindset an alcoholic would (i.e. there is no "well I can drink in moderation!")

samb

Since you can get a lot of great complex carbs from veggies (especially potatoes & yams), and simple sugars from fruits, I don't see why it should be a problem eating a paleo diet for running.

Paleo diet says no potatoes, dairy, beans, or lentils from what I'm reading.

They do suggest you avoid those foods, and potatoes in moderation.

I think you would do great on the paleo diet. I personally also eat cheese and potatoes once in a while. I have had a drastic increase in energy with the low carb/clean/paleo diet, and it is something I could stick to lifelong. On this diet, you get full easier and sometimes find it hard to eat all of your allotted calories. You can plan meals out ahead of time and plan accordingly with your running. I think it will only help your running because you will have more and more muscle built over time and the running will become a very effective weightloss program vs. when eating high carbs/refined crap/etc. you should just give it a try, it won't hurt I promise I actually would like to say I promise it will change your life...

samb

If you're absolutely impossible to control with binge eating, maybe you should cut out all the crappy food so you start to forget what it tastes like. I really enjoy donuts but it's been so long since I've had one, I don't even remember what they taste like anymore. Now I don't miss them. It could work for you. Best of luck.

That's what I'm aiming for, and I know people who went to OA and took that mentality, and it's worked for them. I've done the "all things in moderation" eating, and it has worked for me, but I still can't break the binge and shame cycle, and it's not because I have an overly restrictive diet (quite the opposite). I obviously have some emotional/mental things to work on, but I think I need to adopt the same mindset an alcoholic would (i.e. there is no "well I can drink in moderation!")

I also did this - I always ate pasta and bread - whole wheat of course --- but realized I had to cut those out to get the results I wanted. It was very hard at first, but after a week or 2 you don't crave them anymore and when you do its only slight -- not where you are going to have to make it and eat it alll feeling. I no longer crave much sugar or anything really besides meat and veggies and cheese

---

and I was a vegetarian 1 month ago! it really has changed everything!!!

TheMaidOfAstolat

I believe the biggest change you can make is to just cut the processed food out. My new man is on Paleo and I'm a vegetarian...yet neither of us have had any issues when it comes to athletic preformance. In fact he dropped close to 30 pounds while on it...I'm maintaining where I am at, still trying to lean out a bit though.

Treat yourself every once in a while to something totally sinful such as a donut...and trust me...you'll eat a bite or two of it and go wtf? Too sweet, to fake tasting, and you'll want to spit it out.

I still have a sweet tooth and love salty snacks. I tend to go for a 90% dark cocoa bar (Lindt has a great one) or air popped popcon (which isn't allowed on Paleo...but that's not my thing, lol).

Do some research...read all the books by Loren Cordain and Robb Wolf. If you just want to stick with 'clean eating' read as much as you can by Tosca Reno.

Schwiggity

Treat yourself every once in a while to something totally sinful such as a donut...and trust me...you'll eat a bite or two of it and go wtf? Too sweet, to fake tasting, and you'll want to spit it out.

I know a lot of people try to say this, and actually I do eat very clean when I'm not relapsing into a binge, but I'm never going to eat something like a donut and hate it. It's not how I'm wired.

TheMaidOfAstolat

Treat yourself every once in a while to something totally sinful such as a donut...and trust me...you'll eat a bite or two of it and go wtf? Too sweet, to fake tasting, and you'll want to spit it out.

I know a lot of people try to say this, and actually I do eat very clean when I'm not relapsing into a binge, but I'm never going to eat something like a donut and hate it. It's not how I'm wired.

I binge on occasion (I'm a former Ana/Mia)...and it's almost always on very junky food. It goes on for a day or so and then I feel so damn sick that I won't touch the stuff for at least another 2-3 months.

katschi

Treat yourself every once in a while to something totally sinful such as a donut...and trust me...you'll eat a bite or two of it and go wtf? Too sweet, to fake tasting, and you'll want to spit it out.

I know a lot of people try to say this, and actually I do eat very clean when I'm not relapsing into a binge, but I'm never going to eat something like a donut and hate it. It's not how I'm wired.

Me too. I'd be face first in to a dozen or three in no time.
I have to abstain from my triggers. It's just how it is.
Eating fairly clean and low carb has helped me avoid food triggered binges. I'm not dealing with food cravings any more like when I had the grains/legumes/honey etc in my diet. Once that was gone, I thought I was home free but ...

Now I'm dealing with sh*tty-thoughts-binges.
I'm working on the "just say no" approach until it becomes second nature to default to only healthy eating and find other methods to deal with the garbage in my head.
Practice, practice, practice.
No, No, No.

You've done extraordinarily well! Congratulations!

btw ... I'm reading The End of Overeating by David Kessler and finding some ideas in the Food Rehab section to help me overcome my bingeing.
Maybe you could pick it up at the library to see if there's anything in there for you.

Schwiggity

If someone who's been doing paleo/primal can take a look at my food thus far for tomorrow, I'd appreciate it. I usually plan dinner the afternoon of.

abyssfully

I don't do paleo.

But I just learned from reading Eat to Live about how a lot of the foods we eat, once the foods are digested, we start feeling kind of lousy and want more food so we stop feeling lousy. Eating 90% plant-based foods, the cycle is broken and we won't feel that way. I've only been doing this since last Friday, but I think it all makes sense.

Rather than us trying to resolve the damage, we might fix the cause.

Very interesting. I was just thinking about this today (the fact that certain foods make you feel crappy and want to eaat more crap.) Makes sense.

Schwiggity

bump

dawnemjh

bump

corimac

Bump