Runners - breaking up long runs into two runs?

Mollydolly10

Hello runners,

I am looking over my running plan (I like using Runner's World Smart Coach cause it personalizes a plan to your speed and ability) - it has me running 3 times a week, and I have a marathon in April 2012. I notice that in later weeks (for about 20 weeks total), I am running long distances - 16 miles, 15 miles, 16 miles - for 3 days in one week. I am used to doing my "long runs" on weekends when I have more time - is it okay to break up those long runs that fall on weekdays, because of work? If I tried to do 16 miles on a weeknight then (1) it'd have to be on the treadmill to be safe (haaate doing long runs on the treadmill), (2) I would be exercising late into the night, and (3) I probably wouldn't be able to fall asleep at night after all that exercise.

Could I do some of the miles before work, and the rest after? Or does that defeat the purpose of being able to do the miles all at ONCE and building up endurance?

Let me know what you think, and if you have any advice for me - thanks!

rybo

Wow that's a lot of long runs in one week. I could not imagine trying to hold to that schedule. Ever think about finding a different plan to follow?
I trained for a full this spring and my longest mid-week run was only 10 miles.

What was the "long" run for those weeks where you are doing 15-16 miles?

bunchesonothing

I would have to look at your complete program, but I have never seen a marathon training program give you that kind of mileage in a weeks time... with only 3 runs.

IMO, it's asking for injury.

What level did you put that at?

You really only NEED 1 long run a week.

Mollydolly10

Yeah, it does seem a bit excessive!! Here is the plan. I am on week 1 right now, so tomorrow (Tuesday) I start. Oh, and I set it at "moderate" (the options were maintenance, moderate, hard, very hard) and that I did 16-21 miles a week now.

WEEK 1: 16 Mi
Tue Jun 28 Easy Run Dist: 3 Mi @10:49
Thu Jun 30 Tempo Run Dist: 5 Mi, inc Warm; 3 Mi @ 9:13; Cool
Sun Jul 3 Long Run Dist: 8 Mi @10:49

WEEK 2: 17 Mi
Tue Jul 5 Easy Run Dist: 4 Mi @10:47
Thu Jul 7 Speedwork Dist: 4 Mi, inc Warm; 2x1600 in 8:40 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Jul 10 Long Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:47

WEEK 3: 18 Mi
Tue Jul 12 Easy Run Dist: 3 Mi @10:45
Thu Jul 14 Tempo Run Dist: 5 Mi, inc Warm; 3 Mi @ 9:09; Cool
Sun Jul 17 Long Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:45

WEEK 4: 15 Mi
Tue Jul 19 Easy Run Dist: 5 Mi @10:43
Thu Jul 21 Easy Run Dist: 5 Mi @10:43
Sun Jul 24 Easy Run Dist: 5 Mi @10:43

WEEK 5: 19 Mi
Tue Jul 26 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:43
Thu Jul 28 Tempo Run Dist: 5 Mi, inc Warm; 3 Mi @ 9:07; Cool
Sun Jul 31 Long Run Dist: 12 Mi @10:43

WEEK 6: 20 Mi
Tue Aug 2 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:41
Thu Aug 4 Speedwork Dist: 4 Mi, inc Warm; 2x1600 in 8:35 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Aug 7 Long Run Dist: 14 Mi @10:41

WEEK 7: 23 Mi
Tue Aug 9 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:39
Thu Aug 11 Tempo Run Dist: 5 Mi, inc Warm; 3 Mi @ 9:04; Cool
Sun Aug 14 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:39

WEEK 8: 17 Mi
Tue Aug 16 Easy Run Dist: 6 Mi @10:37
Thu Aug 18 Easy Run Dist: 5 Mi @10:37
Sun Aug 21 Easy Run Dist: 6 Mi @10:37

WEEK 9: 26 Mi
Tue Aug 23 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:37
Thu Aug 25 Tempo Run Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 9:07; Cool
Sun Aug 28 Long Run Dist: 18 Mi @10:37

WEEK 10: 28 Mi
Tue Aug 30 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:35
Thu Sep 1 Speedwork Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 3x1600 in 8:30 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Sep 4 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:35

WEEK 11: 24 Mi
Tue Sep 6 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:34
Thu Sep 8 Tempo Run Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 9:03; Cool
Sun Sep 11 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:34

WEEK 12: 19 Mi
Tue Sep 13 Easy Run Dist: 6 Mi @10:32
Thu Sep 15 Easy Run Dist: 6 Mi @10:32
Sun Sep 18 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @10:32

WEEK 13: 28 Mi
Tue Sep 20 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:32
Thu Sep 22 Tempo Run Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 9:02; Cool
Sun Sep 25 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:32

WEEK 14: 26 Mi
Tue Sep 27 Easy Run Dist: 4 Mi @10:30
Thu Sep 29 Speedwork Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 3x1600 in 8:25 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Oct 2 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:30

WEEK 15: 28 Mi
Tue Oct 4 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @10:28
Thu Oct 6 Tempo Run Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 8:58; Cool
Sun Oct 9 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:28

WEEK 16: 22 Mi
Tue Oct 11 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @10:26
Thu Oct 13 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @10:26
Sun Oct 16 Easy Run Dist: 8 Mi @10:26

WEEK 17: 29 Mi
Tue Oct 18 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @10:26
Thu Oct 20 Tempo Run Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 8:56; Cool
Sun Oct 23 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:26

WEEK 18: 30 Mi
Tue Oct 25 Easy Run Dist: 4 Mi @10:24
Thu Oct 27 Speedwork Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 3x1600 in 8:20 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Oct 30 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:24

WEEK 19: 31 Mi
Tue Nov 1 Easy Run Dist: 8 Mi @10:23
Thu Nov 3 Tempo Run Dist: 7 Mi, inc Warm; 4 Mi @ 8:53; Cool
Sun Nov 6 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:23

WEEK 20: 25 Mi
Tue Nov 8 Easy Run Dist: 8 Mi @10:21
Thu Nov 10 Easy Run Dist: 8 Mi @10:21
Sun Nov 13 Easy Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:21

WEEK 21: 32 Mi
Tue Nov 15 Easy Run Dist: 5 Mi @10:21
Thu Nov 17 Tempo Run Dist: 7 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:56; Cool
Sun Nov 20 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:21

WEEK 22: 33 Mi
Tue Nov 22 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @10:19
Thu Nov 24 Speedwork Dist: 6 Mi, inc Warm; 3x1600 in 8:15 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Nov 27 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:19

WEEK 23: 35 Mi
Tue Nov 29 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:17
Thu Dec 1 Tempo Run Dist: 9 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:53; Cool
Sun Dec 4 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:17

WEEK 24: 27 Mi
Tue Dec 6 Easy Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:16
Thu Dec 8 Easy Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:16
Sun Dec 11 Easy Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:16

WEEK 25: 36 Mi
Tue Dec 13 Easy Run Dist: 9 Mi @10:16
Thu Dec 15 Tempo Run Dist: 7 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:51; Cool
Sun Dec 18 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:16

WEEK 26: 37 Mi
Tue Dec 20 Easy Run Dist: 11 Mi @10:14
Thu Dec 22 Speedwork Dist: 10 Mi, inc Warm; 4x1600 in 8:11 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Dec 25 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:14

WEEK 27: 38 Mi
Tue Dec 27 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:12
Thu Dec 29 Tempo Run Dist: 8 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:48; Cool
Sun Jan 1 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:12

WEEK 28: 30 Mi
Tue Jan 3 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:11
Thu Jan 5 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:11
Sun Jan 8 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @10:11

WEEK 29: 40 Mi
Tue Jan 10 Easy Run Dist: 13 Mi @10:10
Thu Jan 12 Tempo Run Dist: 11 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:46; Cool
Sun Jan 15 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:10

WEEK 30: 41 Mi
Tue Jan 17 Easy Run Dist: 11 Mi @10:09
Thu Jan 19 Speedwork Dist: 10 Mi, inc Warm; 4x1600 in 8:06 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Jan 22 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:09

WEEK 31: 42 Mi
Tue Jan 24 Easy Run Dist: 14 Mi @10:07
Thu Jan 26 Tempo Run Dist: 12 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:43; Cool
Sun Jan 29 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:07

WEEK 32: 33 Mi
Tue Jan 31 Easy Run Dist: 11 Mi @10:05
Thu Feb 2 Easy Run Dist: 11 Mi @10:05
Sun Feb 5 Easy Run Dist: 11 Mi @10:05

WEEK 33: 43 Mi
Tue Feb 7 Easy Run Dist: 12 Mi @10:05
Thu Feb 9 Tempo Run Dist: 11 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:42; Cool
Sun Feb 12 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:05

WEEK 34: 45 Mi
Tue Feb 14 Easy Run Dist: 15 Mi @10:04
Thu Feb 16 Speedwork Dist: 14 Mi, inc Warm; 4x1600 in 8:02 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Feb 19 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:04

WEEK 35: 46 Mi
Tue Feb 21 Easy Run Dist: 14 Mi @10:02
Thu Feb 23 Tempo Run Dist: 12 Mi, inc Warm; 5 Mi @ 8:38; Cool
Sun Feb 26 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @10:02

WEEK 36: 36 Mi
Tue Feb 28 Easy Run Dist: 12 Mi @10:01
Thu Mar 1 Easy Run Dist: 12 Mi @10:01
Sun Mar 4 Easy Run Dist: 12 Mi @10:01

WEEK 37: 47 Mi
Tue Mar 6 Easy Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:01
Thu Mar 8 Tempo Run Dist: 15 Mi, inc Warm; 6 Mi @ 8:42; Cool
Sun Mar 11 Long Run Dist: 16 Mi @10:01

WEEK 38: 49 Mi
Tue Mar 13 Easy Run Dist: 15 Mi @9:59
Thu Mar 15 Speedwork Dist: 14 Mi, inc Warm; 4x1600 in 7:57 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Mar 18 Long Run Dist: 20 Mi @9:59

WEEK 39: 26 Mi
Tue Mar 20 Easy Run Dist: 7 Mi @9:57
Thu Mar 22 Speedwork Dist: 7 Mi, inc Warm; 4x1600 in 7:56 w/800 jogs; Cool
Sun Mar 25 Long Run Dist: 12 Mi @9:57

WEEK 40: 26 Mi
Tue Mar 27 Easy Run Dist: 10 Mi @9:57
Thu Mar 29 Tempo Run Dist: 8 Mi, inc Warm; 3 Mi @ 8:24; Cool
Sun Apr 1 Long Run Dist: 8 Mi @9:57

WEEK 41: 34 Mi
Mon Apr 2 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @9:56
Tue Apr 3 Speedwork Dist: 4 Mi, inc Warm; 2x1600 in 7:55 w/800 jogs; Cool
Thu Apr 5 Easy Run Dist: 2 Mi @9:56
Sat Apr 7 Marathon Race Day 26.2 Mi @8:52 Time: 3:52:33

bunchesonothing

What is your history? Some of the weeks don't seem that bad at all and others... It does seem to be incorporating rest in there. What was your previous best. What kind of mileage are you used to?

therealangd

To me, breaking up the long run into 2 parts defeats the purpose of the "endurance" training.

ETA: I'm using the same program. But training for a half.

bunchesonothing

To me, breaking up the long run into 2 parts defeats the purpose of the "endurance" training.

ETA: I'm using the same program. But training for a half.

If you run 1 long run a week, that is continually increasing, with an occassional cutback, your endurance will be fine. In this case, too much of a good thing, especially runs that can get to be 3 hours long, per week can actually hurt you.

For example, I had a friend, that every week, would run 5 miles a week 5 or 6 days a week, then the next week he ran 6 miles 5 or 6 days a week, and so on and so forth. He thought the same way. He got injured and burnt out. He hasn't been back to running since.

If your brain is thinking it is too much for you, I would keep one of those runs solid and break up the other two. It won't hurt your endurance.

PixieGoddess

Erm, one week (#37) has the EXACT same run for your "easy" and "long" runs. Seems like an error in the computer program that put this together. I would use some CSJ (common-sense judgement) with this training plan. Don't "split" your long runs - as already mentioned, it does defeat the whole point of doing a long run - but you should only have one "long" run in a week. And an "easy" run should never be NEAR your "long" run distance, let alone the same! I would look at the prescribed "easy" runs for the surrounding weeks and use that to decide your easy run for that week. Again, apply CSJ. You obviously realized that something wasn't right, b/c you posted here in the first place!

BerryH

Based on several training plans I've seen, that does seem excessive for mid-week sessions, and you could end up putting in "junk miles" without improving, or injuring yourself with excessive long session. The week usually goes something like:

Easy recovery run
Tempo run (race pace)
Intervals
Long run (weekend)

Mid-week sessions of over an hour tend to only occur in the longest run weeks, three or four weeks before the event, and definitely not more than one!

It may be a quirk of the sessions calculator, and you might be better off choosing a pre-prescribed training plan rather than an automatically tailored one.

bbbbb33333

When I trained for a marathon a couple of years ago, I followed a schedule from running magazine, that I customized to fit my schedule. I basically followed their total mileage, but broke it up to fit my schedule. Their plan only had 1 log run a week (on the weekend). I also only ran about 3 or 4 days a week (needing a day between for my late 40 body to recover). Near the end, the max mileage I got up to was 40 miles in a week. I broke it into 5, 7, 6, 22.

Mollydolly10

Yeah, it definitely seem excessive/strange/injury-in-the-works to me. I wonder if maybe it's because I set it for a date that is SO far away (in 41 weeks), so the computer calculator had to stretch it out in order to fit that schedule. Before, I was doing like 12-16 week plans, which are probably more normal. I am going to try to run a half at the beginning of October anyways, so maybe I'll do that plan for now, and afterwards do a (shorter) plan for my marathon!

Thanks everyone for you input!! All very valuable insights!

DizzieLittleLifter

I wouldn't, the idea is to increase endurance and your lactic acid threshold. I know what you mean about long runs so late, I can never sleep well after a long evening run.

rybo

I've only trained for one marathon...but I put a lot of effort into looking up a good training plan and that one seems rather bizarre to me. I would never follow that.

dragracer64

have you heard of halhigdon.com and jeffgalloway.com? lots of great information on how to not overtrain plus good reasons to do walk breaks

SueInAz

Bumping this for later reading. Thanks!

nseuell

I agree with the others - that seems to be over-training ( and not in a beneficial way). Save your long runs for when you can do them all at once!!! Maybe compare a couple of other marathon plans and mesh several to make it work for you. Good luck :happy:

chrisuy

I, personally, wouldn't break up the long run into two smaller runs. I think it defeats the purpose and won't stress your body enough to get to the distance that it needs to run.

That being said, I agree with the others in that one week of three longish runs seems really excessive. I believe that one long run a week is really enough. If you are doing a run focus, then maybe a mid-week mid-distance run (10 miles or so) wouldn't be bad. But three runs of 15ish miles seems like a recipe for injury. The risks seem way higher than the reward to me.

arc918

That plan looks crazy to me. Trying to get up to 50 miles a week on three runs doesn't make any sense.

I'm getting ready for my 23rd marathon. I typically run 6 days a week.

I sort of do my own thing these days, but it is based off of Pftizinger/Douglass Advanced Marathoning book.

FWIW, I always suggest first timers use Higdon's Intermediate I for their training.

bunchesonothing

FWIW, I always suggest first timers use Higdon's Intermediate I for their training.

It probably depends on where you were before you decided to run a marathon and where you want to go.

Although I know you're not really supposed to do this, I know too many first timers who have no running experience to personally think this is a good idea. 5 days a week would have hurt me my first time. I could barely get in the 4 runs, at first. It seemed overwhelming. And if you take a look at the number of runners in my training group that get all of the runs for the week in (group leader asks every week and emphasizes their importance and most people are running the novice program despite the number of marathon's they've done), most people were like me.

Again, perhaps irresponsible, but we have to work with reality.

I personally have 7 marathons and 3 ultras under my belt, and call me a wimp, I'm only comfortable with Intermediate 2. IMO, there is a reason they are calling it Intermediate.

mlb929

Marathon Nation has a plan for splitting your long runs and the good reasons for it.

bunchesonothing

And what we tell our runners, is that so much of this is not just the running. It is time on your feet. Your runs the week in question, if you keep one long, and break up the others into pieces, is not necessarily overwhelming mileage if she has ever run 40-50 miles in a week before. It would not hurt her endurance and it would be comparable to splitting up the runs into 4 other runs a week.

No one but me seems to be a fan of splitting up training runs, but PLENTY of people do it, pull doubles, to get in their training mileage.

If the OP is comfortable with the program at large, then she should do the program, keep one long run a week, and split up those non-essential to her endurance. If she is not, then she has plenty of other time to seek out a program more to her liking.

IMO, there is probably a reason that she chose a 3 day a week program.... probably.