How much protein is too much?

fteale

The misapprehension most people seem to be under is that eating more protein will make you build more muscle. It won't. Exercise is what causes you to use the protein you eat to be converted to muscle. Diet alone does nothing whatsoever. You can't magically make muscle appear.

For me, at 130lbs and exercising an hour 4 times a week, it is recommended by every online calculator I have tried and by the nutrition sites I have read (that aren't trying to sell me something) that I eat 60g protein a day. I in all honesty rarely get that much, but that is my aim. I am still building muscle and I haven't dropped dead yet. More than that is superfluous. Obviously a 200 lb, 6ft man will need more, but that is the recommended aim for a healthy, average sized women, even athletes.

Again, nobody here is saying that it is required to 1g per pound of bodyweight to be healthy. You are probably experiencing newbie gains. Most people when they first start lifting (over the first few months) will gain muscle no matter what they do if they lift.

Inspite of what your nice little online calculators migh say or what magic formula they go buy actual science shows that more than that is optimal for building muscle. Period.

Well obviously if you are trying to be a body builder then you need more, but I don't know anyone who is aiming for that. I am talking about normal people who do a fair bit of exercise. I don't lift. I did, for 2 years, to help my rowing, but I haven't for years now. I put on muscle extremely fast for a girl, and really don't need to. I am not going for the butch look.
I am a qualified rowing coach and know a fair bit about sports science and nutrition, so I do know the science behind it. Most people in the States eat a lot more protein than they need, and most DOES get stored as fat, unless you are actively building muscle. Which doesn't happen by magic just by eating more protein. You have to put in the work as well.

liftingbro

The misapprehension most people seem to be under is that eating more protein will make you build more muscle. It won't. Exercise is what causes you to use the protein you eat to be converted to muscle. Diet alone does nothing whatsoever. You can't magically make muscle appear.

For me, at 130lbs and exercising an hour 4 times a week, it is recommended by every online calculator I have tried and by the nutrition sites I have read (that aren't trying to sell me something) that I eat 60g protein a day. I in all honesty rarely get that much, but that is my aim. I am still building muscle and I haven't dropped dead yet. More than that is superfluous. Obviously a 200 lb, 6ft man will need more, but that is the recommended aim for a healthy, average sized women, even athletes.

Again, nobody here is saying that it is required to 1g per pound of bodyweight to be healthy. You are probably experiencing newbie gains. Most people when they first start lifting (over the first few months) will gain muscle no matter what they do if they lift.

Inspite of what your nice little online calculators migh say or what magic formula they go buy actual science shows that more than that is optimal for building muscle. Period.

Well obviously if you are trying to be a body builder then you need more, but I don't know anyone who is aiming for that. I am talking about normal people who do a fair bit of exercise. I don't lift. I did, for 2 years, to help my rowing, but I haven't for years now. I put on muscle extremely fast for a girl, and really don't need to. I am not going for the butch look.
I am a qualified rowing coach and know a fair bit about sports science and nutrition, so I do know the science behind it. Most people in the States eat a lot more protein than they need, and most DOES get stored as fat, unless you are actively building muscle. Which doesn't happen by magic just by eating more protein. You have to put in the work as well.

Stop with this protein turning to fat stuff. That's totally and utterly false.

If you are trying to lose weight and in a deficit, it will not turn in to fat even if every calorie you eat is protein. No matter which macro you eat, if you eat enough of it to go over your maintenance levels of calories it will be stored as fat.

This isn't a problem with too much protein it's a problem of too many calories. Bodybuilders and people in general trying to build muscle via lifting and nutrition do need much more protein. Many of the people here on this site do a lot more lifting than the average joe and that is why we alway recommend to increase lifting and protein if you trying to build or preserve muscle.

MrCake

I'm 6 foot 2, 200 lbs. Been averaging about 400 grams of protein a day for the past two months. Never been leaner or been able to assimilate carbohydrates any better. I'm my opinion RDA recommendations should be a minimum, specially if you are an active individual. Granted I'm been averaging about 3 hours of exercise per day (2 hours of weights,1 hour intensity cardio) and those 400 grams only account for about 40% of my 4000 calorie diet. But still, I do believe that RDA recommendations are below of what an active individual seeking to built muscle/burn fat should consume. As another poster said, protein can be converted and consumed as energy by body, and a good amount of it is if the body is not able to find a better energy source. Excess protein is usually secreted or converted into adipose tissue to be stored as energy. All I'm trying to say is that setting the upper bound of protein consumption is not as straight forward as many might assume. In my opinion taking in the minimum requirement of a certain nutrient is far worst than a value near the max. Think about it, whenever you fall short your body has no resources to function or recover from any stress imparted by exercise, whereas as any excess intake that is unused as stated above is either disposed of or stored as as energy in the form of fat. I say this also from personal experience. The way I'll feel during a given day is very sensitive to whether I've consumed enough nutrients or not.

bcattoes

And it isn't anecdotal data I'm referring to. I'm pretty sure that hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders and fitness professionals around the world exceed your definition of needed protein without that "extra un-needed" protein turning into fat.

How so, when my definition was what you use before your body turns it to fat??

As for evidence based recommendations, I can provide you with several studies which show that a diet high in protein (not ketogentic and not low-carb) does aid in weight-loss and body-recomposition. And I think that is a good way to define our optimum protein level. AFter all, this is a fitness and dieting website. How much protein we "need" is such a nebulous term. The amount of protein we should consume should be determined by the optimum levels needed to help facilitate our weight-loss and body recomposition goals.

Evidence based medicine takes into account many verifiable studies and compiles the most prevalent results. Contradicting study results are common, which is why evidence based recommendations are not changed based on any one study. You have to look at the big picture if you are going to put your reputation on the line making recommendations. If, however, you are simply going to give advice on a public website ...

bcattoes

Protein is typically recommended at approx 1 gram per pound of LEAN body mass.

This.

Recommended by whom?

This is exactly why I asked you for your definitions of "need" and how much is too much. The one gram per lb/bodyweight is typically given for someone who wants to maximize their lean body-mass....and I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest the body-recomp benefits of one gram per lb or bodyweigth (or lean bodyweight).

Whereas, if body-recomp isn't your goal, then eating that much protein might not be that important. We are arguing over what the optimal amounts are for different situations.

?? You asked for my personal definition of need as a way of knowing who recommends 1g per lb ?? I don't get it. I still don't know who, other than posters on this public website, recommends that.

MiladyMetal

It depends on how much you workout, if you strength train, body composition, etc. I'm supposed to get 142 g protein before exercise. I have my macros set for 30% of my calories to come from protein. I use a high-protein, reduced-carb eating plan.

Protein is typically recommended at approx 1 gram per pound of LEAN body mass.

To determine your lean body mass, calculate your body fat as best you can. Your LEAN body mass is your weight - (your weight * body fat % as a decimal).

Hope this helps!

(PS -- You can calculate your approx body fat percentage here: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/diet.html)

Thanks for posting that site I just figured at 93.4 grams of protein per my lean body mass. Good cuz my protein goes higher than 70 grams this site sets me at! LOL

TK421NotAtPost

I'm 6 foot 2, 200 lbs. Been averaging about 400 grams of protein a day for the past two months. Never been leaner or been able to assimilate carbohydrates any better. I'm my opinion RDA recommendations should be a minimum, specially if you are an active individual. Granted I'm been averaging about 3 hours of exercise per day (2 hours of weights,1 hour intensity cardio) and those 400 grams only account for about 40% of my 4000 calorie diet. But still, I do believe that RDA recommendations are below of what an active individual seeking to built muscle/burn fat should consume. As another poster said, protein can be converted and consumed as energy by body, and a good amount of it is if the body is not able to find a better energy source. Excess protein is usually secreted or converted into adipose tissue to be stored as energy. All I'm trying to say is that setting the upper bound of protein consumption is not as straight forward as many might assume. In my opinion taking in the minimum requirement of a certain nutrient is far worst than a value near the max. Think about it, whenever you fall short your body has no resources to function or recover from any stress imparted by exercise, whereas as any excess intake that is unused as stated above is either disposed of or stored as as energy in the form of fat. I say this also from personal experience. The way I'll feel during a given day is very sensitive to whether I've consumed enough nutrients or not.

Repeated from above: "All I'm trying to say is that setting the upper bound of protein consumption is not as straight forward as many might assume."

Yes, it's nice to see that some people here can make a coherent argument that actually relates to what we are talking about. And that is all I'm trying to say as well...

The benefits of increasing your protein intake are so well documented for folks trying to improve their physiques both in terms of weight loss or muscle gain as well as overall health (we're talking establish MEDICAL PUBLICATIONS....not public websites).

It's amazing how people have trouble grasping the difference between how much protein we "need" (again, a nebulous term) vs. what the optimum levels would be within the context of a goal of body-recomposition.

MrCake

Repeated from above: "All I'm trying to say is that setting the upper bound of protein consumption is not as straight forward as many might assume."

Yes, it's nice to see that some people here can make a coherent argument that actually relates to what we are talking about. And that is all I'm trying to say as well...

The benefits of increasing your protein intake are so well documented for folks trying to improve their physiques both in terms of weight loss or muscle gain as well as overall health (we're talking establish MEDICAL PUBLICATIONS....not public websites).

It's amazing how people have trouble grasping the difference between how much protein we "need" (again, a nebulous term) vs. what the optimum levels would be within the context of a goal of body-recomposition.

bcattoes

There is no basis to the statement that MFP sets your protein values too low. It's an opinion not based on medical evidence. If you want to eat more, eat more. If you want to eat less, eat less. Unless you are eating none (not recommended unless you have a protein allergy) or an extreme amount it probably won't hurt you either way.

taem

I recently started using whey protein powder, and on some days (today for example) my protein intake is adding up to about 120 for the day. I was wondering if that was too much or if that amount is still ok, anybody know the answer?

I am curious (because I couldn't look into your food diary), are you eating less carbs and more fat and high protein? But more importantly, are you eating less sugar than before your diet? When I say sugar, I mean any kind of sugar. And have you noticed that exercise and less sugar intake affected your weight loss/muscle building?

Just curious.

Thanks.

hemlock2010

If dinner has to be low-protein for your husband, then here's what you could be eating for breakfast, lunch, and snacks to get the protein you need (in addition to the usual suspects--meat, poultry, fish, eggs). I use these b/c they are easy to take to work and don't require a lot of prep time.

Fage yogurt (15 g)
Clif builders bars (20 g)
milk (8 g per cup)
high protein bread (look for this with the specialty breads--I use Pepperidge Farm whole grain oatmeal bread) (4 g/slice)
peanut butter
cheese
anything with beans (chili, 3 bean salad, refried beans--homemade version without fat are still high in protein)
protein shakes made from whey or soy protein powder

If you've been reading this thread, you probably know that in addition to the 11g your husband eats, you basically still need to get your whole day's worth of protein from sources other than what you and he are sharing.

I have the opposite problem. My husband has PKU, so our typical daily diet consists of roughly 11g of protein, unless its a meat day (which we do 3X a week). I try to substitute by snacking on nuts and eating meat on my lunch at work, and I always incorporate meat into my son's diet. But I have trouble straying from what I cook for my hubby. I was thinking of trying a shake for this reason. Any recommendations?

rainvc

If dinner has to be low-protein for your husband, then here's what you could be eating for breakfast, lunch, and snacks to get the protein you need (in addition to the usual suspects--meat, poultry, fish, eggs). I use these b/c they are easy to take to work and don't require a lot of prep time.

Fage yogurt (15 g)
Clif builders bars (20 g)
milk (8 g per cup)
high protein bread (look for this with the specialty breads--I use Pepperidge Farm whole grain oatmeal bread) (4 g/slice)
peanut butter
cheese
anything with beans (chili, 3 bean salad, refried beans--homemade version without fat are still high in protein)
protein shakes made from whey or soy protein powder

If you've been reading this thread, you probably know that in addition to the 11g your husband eats, you basically still need to get your whole day's worth of protein from sources other than what you and he are sharing.

I have the opposite problem. My husband has PKU, so our typical daily diet consists of roughly 11g of protein, unless its a meat day (which we do 3X a week). I try to substitute by snacking on nuts and eating meat on my lunch at work, and I always incorporate meat into my son's diet. But I have trouble straying from what I cook for my hubby. I was thinking of trying a shake for this reason. Any recommendations?

Thanks for the response! I do try to eat the greek yogurt. Sadly, I rarely buy beans and such just because I hate preparing separate meals. I know that sounds lazy, but preparing lopro food is time consuming as it is and then to turn around and cook another meal is dreadful I thought about the Clifbars, but are they too high in calories? I have the same concern with peanut butter. I love it, but the calories freak me out. I'm going to look into a shake, I think and try it out. I definitely notice when my protein intake is too low. I'm so lethargic. My husband gets a medical formula to compensate for his lack of protein, I'm assuming I should take a regular supplement that is similar (since I can have the phenylalanine).

I will add that my husband just started p90x. People always ask him how he is able to build any muscle with such low protein intake, but I guess the medical formula makes it happen.

razeak

I don't know the answer, but I would think you'd have to have a whole lot before having TOO much!!

No, excess protein is a common problem because Americans generally eat about 2-3 times the amount they need. It is hard on the body and organs.

Define need. Need for what? Wouldn't protein requirements depend on a person's goals, training regimen, sensitivity to carbs, body structure, etc?

I personally think excess refined carb is a much bigger problem for Americans.

BTW, love your avatar.

Just because there is a bigger problem doesn't negate the smaller problem. I don't know how big a problem there is with Americans eating too much protein, but based solely on posts on this site there quite a few people eating more than medical evidence suggests is needed.

And what medical evidence would you be referring to? And my original question stands..... what do you mean by "need"?

Reccommended suggestions from Medical or Scientific organizations that calculate the recommendations based on current evidence based medicine (AMA, NIH, CDC, medical universities, research hospitals, etc.). I would define need as how much your body will use before storing it as fat or overworks your kidneys to process it.

Well the debate between people within the US RDA camp vs. people who are more active and swear by the benefits of an increase protein intake has been going on for about 3 decades now, so talking about it now really isn't going to settle anything.

However, I must point out some seriously flawed logic to your post. If the amount of protein we need is what the mainstream medical community says...and you define need as how much our body will use before storing it as fat...then I should be seriously fat. I've been consuming approximately 140 grams of protein per day. But according to you, I only need 70 grams. Do you see what I'm getting at? But my body-fat has been slowly going down over the weeks.

Also, people have been eating high protein diets for decades with no noticeable increase in reported kidney problems. Yes, people who ALREADY HAVE bad kidneys should keep their protein consumption (as well as an assortment of other foods) to a minimum, but for the rest of us, it would take an incredible amount of protein to overwork our kidneys. Protein hurting your kidneys is an outdated line of thinking that has been disproved by scientific research.

To the OP, my suggestion would be to enjoy your protein shakes. If anything, replacing your other macros with protein will accelerate fat loss.

Your body would only store excess protein as fat if you were in a caloric surplus. If you are dieting, you are trying to lose fat, not muscle. Getting adequate protein during a diet spares muscles.

razeak

However, I must point out some seriously flawed logic to your post. If the amount of protein we need is what the mainstream medical community says...and you define need as how much our body will use before storing it as fat...then I should be seriously fat. I've been consuming approximately 140 grams of protein per day. But according to you, I only need 70 grams. Do you see what I'm getting at? But my body-fat has been slowly going down over the weeks.

Also, people have been eating high protein diets for decades with no noticeable increase in reported kidney problems. Yes, people who ALREADY HAVE bad kidneys should keep their protein consumption (as well as an assortment of other foods) to a minimum, but for the rest of us, it would take an incredible amount of protein to overwork our kidneys. Protein hurting your kidneys is an outdated line of thinking that has been disproved by scientific research.

To the OP, my suggestion would be to enjoy your protein shakes. If anything, replacing your other macros with protein will accelerate fat loss.

First of all, I don't care how much protein you eat. I don't care if you choose to follow something other than evidenced based recommentations. But please don't ask me for MY OPINION (i.e. MY definition of need) and then group it into some rant to call my logic "flawed". If you want to know how any particular recommending organization defines "need" then please do that research yourself. And if you want to use personal anecdotal examples as "evidence" then please go ahead. I'll stick with medical evidence, which is a completely logical thing to do. Good luck and good health to you!

The evidence from peer reviewed medical studies suggest the opposite of what you are posting.

byukid

More protein=
Higher Satiety
Higher TEF
Improved Insulin sensitivity

bcattoes

However, I must point out some seriously flawed logic to your post. If the amount of protein we need is what the mainstream medical community says...and you define need as how much our body will use before storing it as fat...then I should be seriously fat. I've been consuming approximately 140 grams of protein per day. But according to you, I only need 70 grams. Do you see what I'm getting at? But my body-fat has been slowly going down over the weeks.

Also, people have been eating high protein diets for decades with no noticeable increase in reported kidney problems. Yes, people who ALREADY HAVE bad kidneys should keep their protein consumption (as well as an assortment of other foods) to a minimum, but for the rest of us, it would take an incredible amount of protein to overwork our kidneys. Protein hurting your kidneys is an outdated line of thinking that has been disproved by scientific research.

To the OP, my suggestion would be to enjoy your protein shakes. If anything, replacing your other macros with protein will accelerate fat loss.

First of all, I don't care how much protein you eat. I don't care if you choose to follow something other than evidenced based recommentations. But please don't ask me for MY OPINION (i.e. MY definition of need) and then group it into some rant to call my logic "flawed". If you want to know how any particular recommending organization defines "need" then please do that research yourself. And if you want to use personal anecdotal examples as "evidence" then please go ahead. I'll stick with medical evidence, which is a completely logical thing to do. Good luck and good health to you!

The evidence from peer reviewed medical studies suggest the opposite of what you are posting.

Such as?

liftingbro

There is no basis to the statement that MFP sets your protein values too low. It's an opinion not based on medical evidence. If you want to eat more, eat more. If you want to eat less, eat less. Unless you are eating none (not recommended unless you have a protein allergy) or an extreme amount it probably won't hurt you either way.

Nobody said it's too low to be healthy but it's too low to create an optimal anabolic state in the body for the intent of building muscle. That's all the people here are sayinig. Can you build muscle on the RDA? Sure. Is it optimal for maximizing anabolic potential? NO.

joejccva71

There is no basis to the statement that MFP sets your protein values too low. It's an opinion not based on medical evidence. If you want to eat more, eat more. If you want to eat less, eat less. Unless you are eating none (not recommended unless you have a protein allergy) or an extreme amount it probably won't hurt you either way.

Nobody said it's too low to be healthy but it's too low to create an optimal anabolic state in the body for the intent of building muscle. That's all the people here are sayinig. Can you build muscle on the RDA? Sure. Is it optimal for maximizing anabolic potential? NO.

Spoken like a true prodigy.

liftingbro

There is no basis to the statement that MFP sets your protein values too low. It's an opinion not based on medical evidence. If you want to eat more, eat more. If you want to eat less, eat less. Unless you are eating none (not recommended unless you have a protein allergy) or an extreme amount it probably won't hurt you either way.

Nobody said it's too low to be healthy but it's too low to create an optimal anabolic state in the body for the intent of building muscle. That's all the people here are sayinig. Can you build muscle on the RDA? Sure. Is it optimal for maximizing anabolic potential? NO.

Spoken like a true prodigy.

Too much do describe me.

However, I do get frustrated with people who insist on arguing against scientificly proven data. While I don't pretend to be an expert in sports nutrtion I think I have a leg up on the average person being that I have a degree in clinical chemistry. That and I read a lot on the subject as well.

There are probably people here that know more than me and I can't hold a candle to what Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald know.

bcattoes

There is no basis to the statement that MFP sets your protein values too low. It's an opinion not based on medical evidence. If you want to eat more, eat more. If you want to eat less, eat less. Unless you are eating none (not recommended unless you have a protein allergy) or an extreme amount it probably won't hurt you either way.

Nobody said it's too low to be healthy but it's too low to create an optimal anabolic state in the body for the intent of building muscle. That's all the people here are sayinig. Can you build muscle on the RDA? Sure. Is it optimal for maximizing anabolic potential? NO.

I can buy that, except for the part about "that's all people on here are saying". That may be all you are saying, but the post I initially responded to said MFP sets the protein requirement too low. No qualifications.